bcool
Deity
If we get Genghisgawa into a holy war with us, will there be any chance to teleport a caravel into the sea between cyrusgawa and genghisgawa that we think has access to the northern AI (sorry away from the game)
SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
mabraham
Deity
Good point shulec. Here's a map with some distances, if it's still useful.... https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B77WqgqXtbSKeXJwLXZKVmxGM00
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We should move our Axeman near Nongoma to Bulawayo to quickly see what we are up against.
Proposed path to Bulawayo, starting at 1-S of Hammsville, assuming we have Engineering:
To Babylon: 3t
To Nongoma: 3t + 4t = 7t
To 1-S+2-W of Numidian: 3t + 4t + 3t = 10t
To DoW vs Shakagawa and 1t capture of Bulawayo: 4t + 3t + 4t + 3t = 14t
We clearly can't make it there by t154 to enable the RL DV resolution at the beginning of t155. Thus, we must plan for a Bulawayo capture by t164 and t166 RL DV (assuming the capture of Bulawayo plus gifting to Mansagawa is our means of spreading Hinduism to him).
We may want one Spy shadow Shakagawa's stack so we will always know its location.
Without Walls, we should be able to bombard Bulawayo down to Def 00 with just a few siege units.
With Walls:
We may want to move 1-2 Spies to Bulawayo ASAP to perform "Support City Revolt" plus the Espionage, but the required Espionage will be very expensive and possibly prohibitively expensive.
Otherwise, we may direct some siege units to bombard and most to barrage Bulawayo.
Sun Tzu Wu
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This link is redirected to an ad for free Google Drive rather than a map. How does one access the map?
Sun Tzu Wu
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I'm not sure, but I do not believe Caravels can enter cities without Open Borders. It may be interesting to see what happens to a Caravel in a city when Open Borders are canceled.
Sun Tzu Wu
mabraham
Deity
That axe has been doing the following
I think shadowing the stack is a higher priority than scouting Bulawayo. We do have a fast worker in the region that is shortly (now?) finishing work. I suggest it relieve the axe from stack-scouting duty, since the 3-movement worker will be better able to cope with finding the stack and then picking a good tile from which to watch it. Activating "show friendly moves" will be useful in this endeavour. Once the axe is relieved, scouting Bulawayo can become its mission.
I like the idea to organize some spies for a city revolt. That gives our economy something to do once we've sent the army. Since the spies can use Shaka's roads, and we have 9 turns walking the army inside Shaka's borders, we can get the spies to Bulawayo in 3-4 turns and fortify for 5+ turns. We can have some spies built after the stack has to depart, since they will overtake the stack in Shaka's culture, and can be backup for the city revolt mission, even without full spy fortification.
mabraham
Deity
Apparently Google Docs has some shortcomings as a file-sharing platform. Perhaps signing up for a gmail account would help (or signing in with an existing one).
It looks like with Engineering in 3 turns, our main stack can first attack Balawayo on T162 if we start up near Numidia or T163 if we have to fight our way through Shaka's lands because he war decs us before we get there.
I think I favor the sneak attack with us declaring on Shaka T159 from near Numidia because it exposes our army to attack by catapults and such for only 3 turns instead of 9 turns. Without a super medic and turns to heal, the long slog from the edge of Shaka's borders up to Balawayo looks very risky. So I now think that baiting Shaka into war early is no longer worth doing and we should get rid of our newest city unless we think declaring on Shaka will cause the North_AI to declare on us the next turn.
We might be able to save 2 turns by teleporting across some water, but again it resets Hamma's +1 open borders bonus if we use it. We would have to not be at war with Shaka and still sharing a war against Liz with Hammarugawa for it to be of use.
Maybe we should recall that spy in Ghenghigawa's lands to help throw Bulawayo into revolt when we attack if that hasn't already been mentioned.
Also, we could infect our Island city with Hindu some time after T146 if the South_AI gift city works out for more votes.
I think I favor the sneak attack with us declaring on Shaka T159 from near Numidia because it exposes our army to attack by catapults and such for only 3 turns instead of 9 turns. Without a super medic and turns to heal, the long slog from the edge of Shaka's borders up to Balawayo looks very risky. So I now think that baiting Shaka into war early is no longer worth doing and we should get rid of our newest city unless we think declaring on Shaka will cause the North_AI to declare on us the next turn.
We might be able to save 2 turns by teleporting across some water, but again it resets Hamma's +1 open borders bonus if we use it. We would have to not be at war with Shaka and still sharing a war against Liz with Hammarugawa for it to be of use.
Spoiler :
Maybe we should recall that spy in Ghenghigawa's lands to help throw Bulawayo into revolt when we attack if that hasn't already been mentioned.
Also, we could infect our Island city with Hindu some time after T146 if the South_AI gift city works out for more votes.
Here is our main stack on T143. They have movement points still and are trailing x2 Macemen and a Mace/Spear Combo on the march westward.
Here is a photo dump of the path we must march. It also includes Cyrus' Babatama if Bulawayo fails and we need to capture it to whip a caravel to sail to the north_AI for a T176+ win. War with Shaka also seals off the west side of the map for us as Ghenghi seals off the east (Unless we get him to pleased somehow or declare on Tokugawa). Shaka is no longer in a holy war against Liz and his borders will remain closed after any hostilities cease.
If Shakagawa doesn't have Engineering, then we could have a spy blow the road 2S1W of uMgungumdluvo and Shaka's main SoD if still in Nongoma can't reach the BFC of Bulawayo by the time we take it. (Unless Shaka also roaded those forests) I really don't like waiting for bombards. Would rather just attack Bulawayo with everything we have right away.
What was the test results of gifting an AI city in revolt that was just conquered? The infect with Hindu and gift could happen right away or was waiting turns required?
Spoiler :
Here is a photo dump of the path we must march. It also includes Cyrus' Babatama if Bulawayo fails and we need to capture it to whip a caravel to sail to the north_AI for a T176+ win. War with Shaka also seals off the west side of the map for us as Ghenghi seals off the east (Unless we get him to pleased somehow or declare on Tokugawa). Shaka is no longer in a holy war against Liz and his borders will remain closed after any hostilities cease.
Spoiler :
If Shakagawa doesn't have Engineering, then we could have a spy blow the road 2S1W of uMgungumdluvo and Shaka's main SoD if still in Nongoma can't reach the BFC of Bulawayo by the time we take it. (Unless Shaka also roaded those forests) I really don't like waiting for bombards. Would rather just attack Bulawayo with everything we have right away.
What was the test results of gifting an AI city in revolt that was just conquered? The infect with Hindu and gift could happen right away or was waiting turns required?
mabraham
Deity
bcool
Deity
Kaitzilla's plan to teleport the stack by closing borders with hamm is a good one I think.
I don't think we will need the +1 from open borders with Hammuragawa (need to double check, but we certainly won't if we convert him to mercantilism)
With this teleport plan we have either
1) have much more time to build up a sizable stack
2) get a DoW by 154 and have an opportunity to get the Holy war on Shaka too.
This will hopefully distract him from hitting our stack which will only take 4 turns from DoW to capture of Bulawaya as Kaitzilla figured out.
Another abandoned idea
I don't think we will need the +1 from open borders with Hammuragawa (need to double check, but we certainly won't if we convert him to mercantilism)
Spoiler :
With this teleport plan we have either
1) have much more time to build up a sizable stack
2) get a DoW by 154 and have an opportunity to get the Holy war on Shaka too.
This will hopefully distract him from hitting our stack which will only take 4 turns from DoW to capture of Bulawaya as Kaitzilla figured out.
Another abandoned idea
Spoiler :
mabraham
Deity
It looks like with Engineering in 3 turns, our main stack can first attack Balawayo on T162 if we start up near Numidia or T163 if we have to fight our way through Shaka's lands because he war decs us before we get there.
I think I favor the sneak attack with us declaring on Shaka T159 from near Numidia because it exposes our army to attack by catapults and such for only 3 turns instead of 9 turns. Without a super medic and turns to heal, the long slog from the edge of Shaka's borders up to Balawayo looks very risky. So I now think that baiting Shaka into war early is no longer worth doing and we should get rid of our newest city unless we think declaring on Shaka will cause the North_AI to declare on us the next turn.
We might be able to save 2 turns by teleporting across some water, but again it resets Hamma's +1 open borders bonus if we use it. We would have to not be at war with Shaka and still sharing a war against Liz with Hammarugawa for it to be of use.
Spoiler :
I like the idea for attacking from near Numidian. We can travel most of the way through Shaka's culture while at peace, DOW to get teleported to a tile near Numidian and have only a few turns to travel (hopefully mostly with tile defence) and perhaps avoid Shaka's stack entirely.
We currently have a buffer of +2 diplo with Hammu, providing some insurance against him going to peace with Liz, or such. Assuming we tech up Hammu to Banking and he switches we'd have enough buffer to be able to afford to teleport across the Akkad-Nobamba gap on the way. Then we journey a turn or two inside Shaka's culture normally, and teleport from the DOW. This could buy us enough time to get out a treb or two and have a stack that would actually survive Shaka's if they met.
Edit: Seems bc and I had the same idea simultaneously
Oh, I see there are plans for maybe another holy war T156 hehe. 
I'll look them over in a bit.
I'm not sure the teleportation plan gives us extra time to assemble more army. All it would take is Shaka closing borders/declaring war early if we took extra time and we automatically fly past a T166 win to T176.
I'll look them over in a bit.I'm not sure the teleportation plan gives us extra time to assemble more army. All it would take is Shaka closing borders/declaring war early if we took extra time and we automatically fly past a T166 win to T176.
bcool
Deity
teleportation plan across gap between Hammuragawa and Shakagawa to Shaka's lands either allows us to either build a bigger SoD and leave later or leave early and get a DoW in time to call a Holy war on Shaka.
bcool
Deity
Another backup plan
If we build a galley in Shaka Bacon Bit
Give Shaka Bacon Bit away to Cyrusgawa after we get OB with Genghisgawa (maybe with mercantilism??? city liberation???)
Cancel OB with Cyrusgawa
Galley teleports into critical waterway with possible galley access to Northern AI team
westport has a monument so I would expect its border to pop by the time we got a galley built in Shaka Bacon Bit
If we build a galley in Shaka Bacon Bit
Give Shaka Bacon Bit away to Cyrusgawa after we get OB with Genghisgawa (maybe with mercantilism??? city liberation???)
Cancel OB with Cyrusgawa
Galley teleports into critical waterway with possible galley access to Northern AI team
Spoiler :
westport has a monument so I would expect its border to pop by the time we got a galley built in Shaka Bacon Bit
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Assuming we use the Bulawayo attack plan I recently outlined (move to the Cyrusgawa plot closest to Bulawayo and submit the DoW on t161), our stack needs to be 1-S of Hammsville by t151. That gives us 8t to build additional units and arrive at 1-S of Hammsville. We should be able to assemble a rather lethal combination of units and probably can spare a turn for upgrades (such as Axemen -> Macemen).
When our six "best" cities build/whip units (2 crossbowmen, 2 macemen & 2 Catapults) our deficit exceeds -100 Wpt while at Res 100%. We won't be able to complete Engineering in 3t at this rate; maybe not even 4t.
I'm not sure I like Kaitzilla's teleport plan to save 2t we don't really need to save; we also need to test that the teleport will actually work in the real game as planned; if it doesn't we'll have to delay our win by 10t. On the other hand, sabotaging a road that is critical for Shakegawa to counter-attack is a great idea.
If we can agree on the grand strategy, we can tune the micromanagement appropriately.
Sun Tzu Wu
When our six "best" cities build/whip units (2 crossbowmen, 2 macemen & 2 Catapults) our deficit exceeds -100 Wpt while at Res 100%. We won't be able to complete Engineering in 3t at this rate; maybe not even 4t.
I'm not sure I like Kaitzilla's teleport plan to save 2t we don't really need to save; we also need to test that the teleport will actually work in the real game as planned; if it doesn't we'll have to delay our win by 10t. On the other hand, sabotaging a road that is critical for Shakegawa to counter-attack is a great idea.
If we can agree on the grand strategy, we can tune the micromanagement appropriately.
Sun Tzu Wu
It might just work. All the teleportation makes me uneasy though. I had nightmares after watching The Fly late one night
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Another backup plan
If we build a galley in Shaka Bacon Bit
Give Shaka Bacon Bit away to Cyrusgawa after we get OB with Genghisgawa (maybe with mercantilism??? city liberation???)
Cancel OB with Cyrusgawa
Galley teleports into critical waterway with possible galley access to Northern AI team
Spoiler :
This teleport idea is very promising; we should employ it in parallel with capturing/spreading Hinduism/giving Bulawayo to Mansagawa. It also requires some game testing though, in my opinion, before we commit to it.
Sun Tzu Wu
Another backup plan
If we build a galley in Shaka Bacon Bit
Give Shaka Bacon Bit away to Cyrusgawa after we get OB with Genghisgawa (maybe with mercantilism??? city liberation???)
Cancel OB with Cyrusgawa
Galley teleports into critical waterway with possible galley access to Northern AI team
Spoiler :
westport has a monument so I would expect its border to pop by the time we got a galley built in Shaka Bacon Bit
Maybe if we got Ghenghigawa to join a holy war against Shaka T156 and we settled the Hatsegawa bait city as a teleport anchor, the galley might teleport there.
