Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Hitler did the same thing, we should emulate what he did, no?
It really wasn't the reforms or storming the Bastille that made France powerful, it was Napolean. And really, he proclaimed himself emperor.
Loyal subjects of the wealthy ?
- Thread starter otago
- Start date
Hitler did the same thing, we should emulate what he did, no?
It really wasn't the reforms or storming the Bastille that made France powerful, it was Napolean. And really, he proclaimed himself emperor.
Verbose
Deity
You actually have no idea how pre-revolutionary France operated?
Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
As per the Laws of Godwin, I proclaim victory in my argument with Fallen Angel Lord via invoking a comparison with Hitler!
It would be replaced pretty quick. But with something that would take a while to degenerate to where Wall St is now for uselessness.
timtofly
One Day
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
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- 9,445
Sounds easier than changing the tax code.
Perhaps, but nothing is easy until we see public financing of elections and restrictions on the lobbyist-congressional-business merry-go-round.
ParkCungHee
Deity
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- 12,921
ftfy.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
You actually have no idea how pre-revolutionary France operated?
Regardless of my knowledge(and I have some) of pre-revolutionary france. The Revolution did not make France a powerful country. France went through many government changes in the next 100 years including the stint with Napoleon.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
But I thought you were against Obama and hes national socialist ways?
Verbose
Deity
Well, yes. It already was a powerful country before the revolution. The revolution just released one hell of a lot of pent-up energy amount certain groups in French society who had been stifled for ages by the system under the monarchy.
In any case it had nothing to do with Napoleon, beyond the fact that he did weed out the corruption that had been in full swing under the Directory, while maintaining and strengthening the rather more popular social and economic reforms. Nice balancing act, but not something he created.
Murky
Deity
I suppose if you think about it, the Tea Party is the unwitting hand of the wealthy in elections these days. No doubt loyal subjects every single one. 
kochman
Deity
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I'm not well versed on post-revolutionary France... but wasn't Napoleon, in the end, just more of the same when it came to leadership?
I thought the social reforms came before he really became "the Emperor"... and that in the end, he replaced the corrupt monarchy and colleagues with his own corrupt people.
I suppose if you think about it, the Tea Party is the unwitting hand of the wealthy in elections these days. No doubt loyal subjects every single one.
Yeah, tories all.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You know, if you don't understand history, you really shouldn't talk about it like you do.
Verbose
Deity
Not really. Markedly less corruption in the empire. It was one of the most obvious things Napoleon could deal with and make himself popular in the process.
The monarchy system of noble privileges and sinecures was very different from the wholesale corruption of the Directorate, but you really might get your job during the empire based on merit, since Napoleon actually did give a damn about efficiency.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Alot of the rise did actually have to do with Napolean weeding out the corruption of the Post-revolutionary government. The ones that followed the revolution were not any better than the monarchy.
And back on the original topic:
We are subjects of the wealthy because in the long run and grand scheme of things, the little mice are no match for the might of the fatcats.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
My point stands.
e: That is, your original assertion was that France was somehow worse off "after that," where I guess "that" is the French revolution and tossing out of the aristocracy. When the foolishness of your assertion was pointed out re: the precipitous rise of Napoleonic France and subsequently France's half-a-century of military and political supremacy (conveniently ignored for the sake of [insert ignorant argument here], I suppose), you shift gears into an essentially baseless comparison between Napoleon and Hitler and then backpedal into a, frankly, utterly irrelevant point about Napoleon's political reformations... which doesn't even link coherently with that original assertion that France was worse off for having ditched its aristocracy.
Maybe I just can't understand. It's hard to follow stream-of-conscience bad history sometimes.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
My point is that France was no better off after the revolution than before it. The government that followed it was no better than the one before it. There is a period of time between the storming of the bastille and when Napoleon really came to power. The various governments that followed after the execution of Louis XVI were worse than the government under Louis XVI. Also, as someone pointed out, France was already one of the dominant powers in Europe before the revolution and I'm not sure if France was more powerful/less powerful after the 2nd defeat of Napoleon at waterloo than before the revolution took place.
Also, I don't know how you could say Napoleon and Hitler is a baseless comparison. In both cases, these were men who more or less staged a takeover and formed an extremely efficient government from a very ineffective one. And then tried to conquer Europe and were defeated by Russia.
Also, I don't know how you could say Napoleon and Hitler is a baseless comparison. In both cases, these were men who more or less staged a takeover and formed an extremely efficient government from a very ineffective one. And then tried to conquer Europe and were defeated by Russia.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
This "banned" TED talk that Murky posted in the Youtube videos thread pretty much destroys the myth that capitalists create jobs.
Link to video.
Link to video.
Link to video.
Link to video.
