Going from Noble tooo ....?

In need of desperate help before everyone leaves me and cIV behind for ciV(I don't think I'll join in and abandon Civ IV just yet, it's too fun still)

Okay so I got this "urge" to get better, but WHAT is it exactly that I do to get better? I look at you'r(more advanced players) posts on the forum and I see strategies that looks like mine, but I'm still on Noble(really don't even know what the difference is with the harder levels, or the difference to the next level(monarch???))

Can my problem lay in the fact that I'm a historian fanatic and like to replay the history as much as possible? That I seem to be stuck on the earth maps because of this and don't like the random generated maps?
I don't know but post some basic pointers on HOW to advance in levels, thanks!

try play monarch map you will see... you will either dominate if you really do the same as advanced players which posts you read or you don't and the map will teach you.

earth maps can be too repetitive and you know the resources too much, it would be better to play random generated if skill is what you're searching for.

Do what I did: put a game up!

post a save here, preferable between 1000BC and 1AD

reljanovic said:

Can my problem lay in the fact that I'm a historian fanatic and like to replay the history as much as possible? That I seem to be stuck on the earth maps because of this and don't like the random generated maps?

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I know I'm not answering your question of "How do I get better?" but you might want to check out RFC mod for BTS that comes with 3.17 and higher. This will probably help you to be entertained more than get better. But I wish you the best of luck getting better.

Put a game up, try generating maps. Give monarch a go and see how well you do

vranasm said:

try play monarch map you will see... you will either dominate if you really do the same as advanced players which posts you read or you don't and the map will teach you.

earth maps can be too repetitive and you know the resources too much, it would be better to play random generated if skill is what you're searching for.

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I see where your getting at and it's something I knew I have to do but wanted to avoid, more or less. But I think I'll start a game up soon.

The Oz-Man said:

Do what I did: put a game up!

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Mizar said:

post a save here, preferable between 1000BC and 1AD

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Revent said:

Put a game up, try generating maps. Give monarch a go and see how well you do

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I'll think I'll do that! ... How does one do that exactly?(I'll have to figure that out and get a game going, prolly not before Tuesday, I'm away for the weekend)

Kesshi said:

I know I'm not answering your question of "How do I get better?" but you might want to check out RFC mod for BTS that comes with 3.17 and higher. This will probably help you to be entertained more than get better. But I wish you the best of luck getting better.

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I've tried that mod, liked it a lot, but the thing is my comp is to slow for processing such many events but I guess I'll give it ago again soon, it's to much fun to simply put on the shelf(got any tips for making it less laggy? Already disabled the in-game options that make it run slower like fast graphics, moving improvements etc.)

Btw thanks all for the quick replies!

These are my saves.

Civs - (ME) Boudica, vs Khmer
Map - dual
difficulty - Prince

Strategies - improve nearby land, BW for slavery - get iron for UU and get horse for HA

Now, did I do anything stupid? could I have been whipping more? built more cities? units? workers? Should I have built libraries to get scientists up for more beakers? etc etc..

I know it was pretty weak of me to do a duel, I was quite sure to win but not as fast as i did in the end.

pls give me feedback, thanks!

in a real game (with more than 1 opponent), there is a game beyond the horse archer rush that is quite difficult when you are at -35gpt at zero science in 1AD

1. don't overexpand! (raze crappy sites that only bring maintenance)
2. build up your economy, with libs, scientists, cottages and towards currency, code of laws (courthouses) and bureaucracy
3. don't whip core cities of size 5 into -6 unhappy

I got to say that slavery is sort of a "new" tool for me to use, really don't know when or how to use it for most efficiency.

I tried to be economical about my own settlements but I felt as if I had so crappy land I needed to land horses an iron at least.

I tried a new game, I built libraries in every city that could work 2 scientists from the start. (also built GLibrary, damn that city spat out GS's) but I still feel I need some kind of basic guide for slavery and/or researching, both with and without or even mixed SE and CE, do you guys know of any good guides?

I got to say that slavery is sort of a "new" tool for me to use, really don't know when or how to use it for most efficiency.

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Slavery is one of the key features that can seriously improve your game and move you up in difficulty. It takes time and practice to get a feel for what's best and optimal when it comes whipping. Whip too much and you may nerf your natural production and research. Still at times you may want to whip liberally to get up a fast army or complete a wonder with overflow (OF).

I wrote up a few posts on the concept of whip OF. Keep in mind that there are times when you use whipping with little regard to OF as you just want to get that army out asap. However, micro-ing the whipping and citizens to maximize OF is great way to get large chunks of hammers in a very short amount of time. It basically involves whipping 2 or more citizens at the optimal point to achieve max OF.

But know that you want to balance it with the growth of your city. You might 2 pop whip at size 4 (you can only do so at 4 pop or higher), but it may be best to grow to size 5 or 6.

An example would be to 3 pop whip a settler early in your cap. You might get up to 29H OF immediately, which is great to put into your next worker. If EXP, those OF hammers even get boosted to get that worker out even faster.

All that speeds up your early expansion tremendously (or conquest), which is really key to winning the game.

Anyway, I linked in a few posts where I wrote the concept up more detail. There are pros that are even far better than I at doing this, but hopefully it will give you an idea of how it works. The 3 posts are basically an exercise in the same idea, but it can't hurt to read.



Example 1

Example 2

Example 3


edit: and note that whipping is one of the key reasons that the Granary is the single most important thing in the game, next to the worker

edit2: As for economies, I would focus on the cottage economy for now. You can't go wrong with that and SE is a bit more advanced concept. However, CE does not mean no specialists. Specialists are hugely important and you should focus on a) getting a Lib up asap in your cap and running 2 scientists for your first GS and academy b) find a good GP farm sight with 2 or 3 very strong food resources for NE. Also, whether it's your initial cap location or elsewhere, always try to get up a good Bureau cap going, i.e, heavily cottaged with some good production too.

and you can check this video of mine called whip training for some OF abuse for building wonder(s - not sure if I built couple of them or only 1 ;-))

I've spent some time with the slavery button and we became pretty great friends
I used the OF(like u explained in your links) As much as I could, it helped me to get a library, market and bank going pretty quick in my cap which had like 10 towns working plus 2 food resources. So I felt like this was for sure a winning strategy. I think I learned not to whip less than three pop for the unhappy bonus(2 at desperate times) and it really worked, never reached an unhappy citizen until I defied a resolution(ing hate that "the world considers you a villain" crap.. I can declear war and be a but when I deny stopping trade to a 17+ friend with a lot of overseas city's... No, that ain't allowed! WTH?

Also I chopped like crazy, go the GLibrary up and running really quick for GS's and a lot of beakers. I got a nice bonus from my cap's towns, I researched the tech of my real time at like 3 turns w/o any minus GPT. I did one or 2 things wrong tho, I stopped expanding because I felt I couldn't find any food resources for, just gl with rivers, only gl, hills gl... I know I should have settled there as well but for some reason I didn't feel like it(?) and two I stopped popping specialists because I was occupied with whipping, I dont know is there a way to do both or do I have to choose one?

It's really all about finding a balance. Some cities might take fewer whips than others. You still want at least one high food city churning out Great People. It can still take whips, but just balance and time that to keep the city growing and happy. It just takes time to get a feel for it.

3 pop whips can be fine, but often 2 pops work just as well. You want to try to keep working improved tiles as much as possible, especially the the high yield tiles (food, production, hammers). Don't be afraid to grow into unhappiness and whip the unhappy citizens - it's free production. This allows you to whip and keep working as many improved tiles as possible for the bonus.

Try not to overwhip your capital especially (in most cases). After a settler whip or 2, keep it grow so that you can run scientists asap and overall keep the city productive, which it usually is. The capital generally serves as your primary research center for much of the early game and longer really if it is a bureau cap. Usually one of my secondary cities with good food I will abuse more for whipping.

So basically, cap gets out at least 2 settlers, some workers, and units first thing, then transition that job to newer cities as they come online and get productive.

All it all, it just takes practice to get used to it, and you always have to adapt to your surroundings.

You're on track to getting better just by being here, the discussions/articles on the forum are really good resources!

Along with posting your own games for advice I would recommend going on YouTube and watching a few of AbsoluteZero's or TMIT's videos - preferably one of the Noble's Club or Immortal University games (NC or IU in the title). Then you can go here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=374632 and play the exact same map. I would say try playing it on your own first at the highest difficultly you can manage and when you get stuck check out their videos and the thread for tips, ideas, and strategies.

You can do it!

Okay did a random map with random leader to improve in my adapting skills, so I'm posting a save up as van Oranje and i hope you guys can tell me if you think I have improved or am I missing something?

Quick note, I feel like I'm advancing in the early games but when I've had my first war I plummot, I took you'r advice on not keeping crappy cities but I still fall behind as the other civs expands and advances.

I DoW on Saladin, took Mecca made peace to regroup my SoD then I razed Medina and captured Damascus and then peace again and that's where I am now. Should I put that save up also?

Here's the saves, I included the longer one as well

Hey Rel -

I took a look at the 580 save. Earlier the better, as the early game is the most important. I see quite a few things wrong here, which I will point out. However, for now, try just playing standard maps and settings. Keep sea level normal and use temperate climate. That may be a feature of the "random" stuff you selected...not sure. Play standard size maps for more AIs. It will help you in the long run with diplo and teching.

Anyway:

1) Amsterdam is an ok start and ideal GP farm. Potential cap move later. It should still be running scientists. You should also have whipped in a LH and Forge by now.

2) Your tech pace is horrid. Tech Pace is a bit slower on lower difficulties because tech trading is not as good due to nerfed AIs. However, you can usually backfill much of the early techs in order to keep your tech path focused. Things such as IW and the religious stuff, if you don't go Oracle yourself.

I usually beeline Alpha on lower levels, since it allows me to backfill crap techs, make a friend or two, and then move on at my own pace blowing away the AIs in tech.

It appears that you have teched everything yourself and you don't even have Monarchy yet and HR civic.

3) However, you have not made any friends. Part of the problem is you are in a different religion. No need for that. Either adopt a religion of an non-target AI or AIs or just stay out of one. (unless isolated of course)

4) If you have gold, gems (no jungle) or silver nearby look to settle it asap. that is a huge early boost to commerce

5) An AI cap that close should be yours asap. On Prince you can warrior rush a city that close, which actually works well for a seafood start since you don't need a worker as soon (you can just 2 pop a worker or steal one from Arabia.

6) 4 cities is really really bad. Horse/phants makes kinda sense, but there are some other better food spots nearby. Your improvements are kinda hodgepodge a well. Need to work on city specialization.

7) As for tech, to put it in perspective, you are either full blow conquest in which case tech doesn't matter as much as gold other than just getting the military needs, or you are in the range of Education and Liberalism at this point.

Although Prince a below can be iffy on tech choices due to AI nerfage, that is, you may just have to tech some things yourself otherwise, here are some of the AI priority techs:

Any early religion tech for the zealots
Alpha
Maths
Iron Working
Monarchy
Sailing
Calendar

Later:

Feud
Machinery
Engineering
Guilds

What the means is that you will generally set up trades for most of those techs, unless you are setting up a way to get fast strategic tech like Machinery. For instance, the Machinery ploy for China to get early Cho-Ku-Nos. But definitely, many of the techs on the early list above can be acquired for free.


Oh...and your scouting is horrible. At 580AD on a Pangaea you should have a better view of the land. Heck...you have still not met an AI. It's okay to keep scouting localized early, but once you first few cities are secure you can then maybe build a scout or chariot to go out an explore. OR even better, at least get an extra workboat out early and just set it to auto explore.

I see what u mean, and I think my problem is I don't have a solid strategy for winning. I'll think about the early rushes, I've been kind of "afraid" that they would've archers when I get there and that will stagnate my own advancements.

But I'll try your tips! Thanks!

Note on warrior rushes: I don't really like to recommend them on lower levels as they are pretty unrealistic once you hit Monarch and above, unless Incan (which is OP). I just stated it because it is feasible here if you start out by building 3 or 4 warriors straight up once you know Arabia is so close which probably was within the first couple of turns. Other option is to get a strat online, ideally horses and chariot rush or HA rush later. In this case chariot rush should be effective. At a minimum though it is a good idea to worker steal/choke such a close AI.

I would not even worry so much about end goal for now. Practicing the first 100 turns (or 1ADish or so) over and over can be a great idea when starting out. Get your 6 to 8 cities by 1AD via expansion or conquest and practice early diplo, economy building, city placement and specialization and worker management. Once you get that down, any VC is open to you.