SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

Land Area and Coastal AI (Turn 1) :
We have two possible combinations here and I'll jump straight to the answer as I think the explanation can be a bit long
One AI that starts two water tiles in the inner square, two AI's that start with one water tile in the inner square and three land based AI's with no water tiles. Probably THREE coastal AI
Two AI starting with two water tiles, no AI with one water tile and four AI that are land based completely with no water tiles. Probably TWO coastal AI Count as rank 5

EDIT: After looking at some more into the actual ranks, I've found one possible solution! That is the first solution which means that we probably have three coastal AI.


Note that I say probably because it is very well possible that there is a fresh water lake in the AI's inner ring. It is unlikely if there are two water tiles, but it is very well feasible with just one water tile. Unless, I am mistaken and a lake tile counts as a land.

Turn 1 Approval Rate:

One (or possibly but very unlikely two) AI has (have) settled on a happy resource. This could be one of the following: Elephants or Fur. However, this list can be expanded to Gems, Gold and Silver if this AI starts with Mining. But, I'd like to think the AI is not stupid enough to settle on these! To bear in mind is that no AI starts with base two production, so no AI settled on plains elephants for example.


EDIT: Well, after finding out the AI do not settle on resources, I believe it is safe to assume we have one or two charismatics leader in the game.

I will get to life expectancy later. That is a lot harder to calculate because of so many variables involved.


Turn 1 and 2 Production:
No AI are working a tile that gives hammers so they must be working food and/or commerce. This suggests a grassland (food) source or floodplain in the inner ring for all AI but does not necessarily mean is true. For turn 2, we notice 1 AI changes to 2 hammers but the food average does not change. This means that it was probably working a grassland tile and then switched over to a forested grassland tile.

Turn 1 and 2 Food:
Food, very hard to tell because averages don't change much. Ie, if 5 Civs had 4 food total and one had 5, the average would still be 4. But we can tell that at least one AI has a three food source in the inner ring.

No Creative AI at Turn 3/4 since there was no border pop

The AI don't settle on resources, unless the map has been modified (never trust a mapmaker). AI are programmed to settle in place with their first settler, and starting spaces never have resources. I think we can assume that the AI with increased happiness are Charismatic.

ChrisShaffer said:

The AI don't settle on resources, unless the map has been modified (never trust a mapmaker). AI are programmed to settle in place with their first settler, and starting spaces never have resources. I think we can assume that the AI with increased happiness are Charismatic.

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Ah yes. You are right. I completely forgot Charismatic AI get a +1 happiness! I was assuming a monument needs to be built for it! So we can assume one or two charismatic leader in this game. If I were to have a bet, it would be the American leader Lincoln who is generally one of the most likely Civs to get GLH.

In fact, Brennus is Charismatic, so he is one of the happy people.

The Gallic Warrior gives Brennus a melee unit with Guerilla promotion, and the Dun gives Guerilla promotion to his recon, archery, and gunpowder units. What do you want to bet kcd_swede made sure that Brennus' capital is on a hill?

Requirements of AI:
None are creative.
Between one and two are CHA inclusive.
Between one and two are in 'Other AI' category.
Between two and three AI that start with the wheel.
One OR three AI starting with mining.


Is it safe to assume we won't see Boudica, Napoleon and De Gaulle? I think it'd suck a bit generally game play wise if we had the same civs anyway.

I will get to expansive traits soon enough! And will also give an analysis of turn 5 border pop details if possible. Tonight hopefully.

Green light from me! Thanks for stopping Chris, I feel special now!

ChrisShaffer said:

His scout came from the south and is 5 spaces from our capital on turn 6, so the Carthaginian capital is at most 15 spaces from ours.

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I hate this guy + 5 bucks he founds hinduism => . And I'm sure his capital is on a hill. :-(.

Excellent work Revent. The life expectancy is indeed messy, good luck!

ChrisShaffer said:

(never trust a mapmaker).

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LOL... teams are sure getting a lot of milage out of that phrase.

Revent said:

Is it safe to assume we won't see Boudica, Napoleon and De Gaulle?

Click to expand...

Is any assumption safe?*

kcd_swede said:

Is any assumption safe?*

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If there were other French leaders on the map, I presume that would affect city naming such that we could not have used Paris for a city name on turn 1 since the other French civ would have used it on turn 0.

But that is just a guess.

OK, that was fun. I have to apologize at the start - I build half a road to the NE of Paris instead of the NW. This means we don't have a road on the forest where the worker is chopping. Sorry.

I am done with my turnset. This is an official handoff. The save has been uploaded.

On turn 6, we met Brennus of the Celts in the southern jungle. His capital is a maximum of 15 tiles away from ours.



On turn 19, our valiant Warrior defeated a wolf, but had to heal for three turns.



On turn 25, our valiant Warrior defeated not one, but two additional wolves!


With 3 experience points, I took the Woodsman I promotion for healing, and rested for two additional turns of healing. Our Warrior is now playing hide and seek with a lion and has not yet moved this turn. I'm hoping we can move SW-W to the hill to reveal the last hidden tile near the fish/pigs/deer city site. There is, unfortunately, some unrevealed tundra and ice to the north that we will eventually want to explore. I think we need the warrior back home to escort the settler for now.


Here is our map. We are alone on the northern end of the continent, with Brennus and at least one other AI (see espionage below) to the south on the other side of the jungle. To our north is a fish/pigs/deer site, to our west are floodplains/silk/deer/sheep/fish/incense, to the southwest is grain/wine and to the south are clams/junglepigs/junglegems.

Oh, and thank you kcd_swede, there is no copper. On the plus side, at least people who settled in place aren't benefitting from BFC copper.

Let the dot mapping begin. I am sure our next city should be to the west, but I don't know exactly where we should put it. The northern fish/pigs/deer site can wait for later.


Detailed maps:

Northeast


Northwest


Southwest


Southeast


Paris is looking good, exactly as planned (except for that errant half-road). Our worker is chopping the riverside grass for the settler.


We are at 113% espionage vs. Brennus, which means he has met someone else. We can see Brennus' graphs.



More demographics for Revent.


We have the #1 city! Bibracte is #2.


We have more population and less land than Brennus.


Brennus is Buddhist (let's hope it spreads to us quickly). Hinduism was founded three turns later, so presumably there's another AI that started with Mysticism.


CivFanatics Log


BUFFY Log

Sorry for no replies over the weekend, but had a combined county semi-final win/friend's engagement to get through so too much drink on Saturday, and too little on Sunday (hair of the dog and all that).

Looking at Chris's reports it looks good. I'll have some noodling around, but already it looks that if we've anybody squeamish they'll learn to stop worrying and love the whip. I see 2 three food sites in the north, a 2 food site full of gemmy goodness (almost as good as heady goodness) in the south and oodles of Flood plains in the west, so whipping will be strong.

Note that we have not revolted to slavery yet, so if that's desired, we should do it before we settle our second city.

Here is a quick and dirty dotmap. Both red sites to the north require hunting and animal husbandry. The blue site requires pottery. The green site to the south requires iron working and animal husbandry. The green circle southwest is too far and too unknown.

Even though it doesn't fit entirely well with our Great Lighthouse plan, I suspect the inland blue site is our best bet. It has four floodplains for cottages, is on the river, is defensible on a plains hill for the extra hammer in the city center, has 6 forests to chop in addition to the 2 forests it would share with Paris, and will help block Brennus from the north. It would also be a great site for the palace when we get to moving it.



Edit - I added detailed maps to the turn report above, for those who want to create test games or see where hills and such are located.

Great job, Chris! Lots to consider/discuss before moving on.

The roster has been updated:

• ChrisShaffer - (t0-31) - just played
• neilmeister - UP!
• Trystero - on deck
• Revent - in the hole
• Benginal
• SteelHorse
• vra379971
• Deckhand
• Brian Shanahan

Trystero said:

If there were other French leaders on the map, I presume that would affect city naming such that we could not have used Paris for a city name on turn 1 since the other French civ would have used it on turn 0.

But that is just a guess.

Click to expand...

Yep - I verified this. The other French leaders cannot be on the map, or the Paris city name would not be available to us on turn 1.

Trystero said:

If there were other French leaders on the map, I presume that would affect city naming such that we could not have used Paris for a city name on turn 1 since the other French civ would have used it on turn 0.

But that is just a guess.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I've just tested it
It's been noted and my post has been edited to reflect the possible AI.

Currently working out the respective probabilities of different AI as well as possible BFC tile yields or improvements of various AI and how much land access they may have.
Problem with border pop probabilities is that they are at best an indication because there are so many more possibilities.

Is there a minimum number of forests in the BFC that AI start with?

Or any data regarding minimums and maximums for resources, etc.. in the BFC?

Here is a new test game.

No, I don't think there is any minimum number of forests and/or resources. I do know the map script has minimums for food/hammers/commerce in the BFC (though it may not be minimums for each type, but rather a minimum total), which generally means you'll get resources and/or floodplains, and that it's next to impossible to get a really bad site.

Earlier, I said I thought an AI was Expansive, because of better health. However, modifiers for health at game start are Forests + Expansive - Floodplains = total health, so I'll wait for Revent to analyze the possibilities with Forests and Floodplains in the mix.