SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

We know Brennus met someone else before he met us, so no worries about semi-isolation. Totally agree about exploration, it MUST be a priority next turnset. Lighthouse, Oracle, and Great Library are all looking possible - let's really exploit the industrious trait. Also agree that capturing the barbarian city is a great idea, saves us a settler.

We should start talking now about strategy and the decathlon objectives:

How can we steal iron working from Brennus or his neighbor?

We must eliminate one AI. Are we going to eliminate Brennus?

My apologies, I cannot find the BUFFY autolog. It used to be all configured, but it has somehow not worked.

1) I agree that Oracle is looking reasonable based on the current wonder dates. We should definitely attempt it. Pottery first still seems right (it also unlocks MC for Oracle), but I could be convinced otherwise.

2) I have tried a number of variations on TGL, we can get it 1180bc, without a whipped settler or in 1120bc with a whipped settler. I will try a few more things, but I think it boils down to a choice of if we think 1120bc is a safe date.

3) City 3 = Awesome. 100% agreement.

4) No other neighbours yet, but we have 200 esp on Brennus, and he has 150 on us, so he has definitely met someone else.

5) Exploration is the definite priority of the next set. WB will be out in 2 turns, and Woodie 2 will be free to explore once City 3 builds its own warrior. City 3 can maybe build another WB after the first WB/warrior combo, to explore the west coast.

6) Yes, the barb city will probably be very impressive, and it is situated so well to integrate into our empire. Coastal, riverside and correct spacing. Chariots should do the trick.

7) Whip worker ? The Paris PHF mine will be finished in 2 turns, so the WB is finished the same turn as growth to pop 5, with a whole bunch of overflow. Totally agree that we need to test scenarios out, the placeholder I have been using is a settler for the silk.

8) OK, no objections from me.

ChrisShaffer said:

We know Brennus met someone else before he met us, so no worries about semi-isolation. Totally agree about exploration, it MUST be a priority next turnset. Lighthouse, Oracle, and Great Library are all looking possible - let's really exploit the industrious trait. Also agree that capturing the barbarian city is a great idea, saves us a settler.

We should start talking now about strategy and the decathlon objectives:

How can we steal iron working from Brennus or his neighbor?

We must eliminate one AI. Are we going to eliminate Brennus?

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Agreed, lighthouse/TGL is looking very solid.
Oracle looking possible.

I think it is way too early to discuss who we eliminate. Don't forget we will almost certainly have to stop at least 1 AI from winning peacefully.

To steal IW, it is simply a case of getting Alpha, Brennus getting IW (which he will beeline, as it gives him his UU), and then using the ESP slider to get enough points on him.

neilmeister said:

My apologies, I cannot find the BUFFY autolog. It used to be all configured, but it has somehow not worked.

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We hates you. (I'm in my gollum mode)

Oh, not really, it's all ok, the goal here is to have fun.

But this is just a reminder to everyone else to check to make sure the BUFFY log is working before you play. It has *lots* and *lots* of great information in it.

ChrisShaffer said:

We hates you. (I'm in my gollum mode)

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But, the fat hobbit. He knows. Eyes always watching.

edit: but I will fix my BUFFY log

My daughter and I have December 14 marked on our calendar and we are counting the days.

This, despite my extreme displeasure at Gimil's treatment in the original movie trilogy. Dwarves are not laughingstocks!

Very nice set Neil. It's nice when things go according to plan. I will depend heavily on your micro skills to plan my turnset. It looks like you've planned things out for the next 20 turns or so already.

I have updated the roster:

• ChrisShaffer - (t0-31)
• neilmeister - (t32-57) - just played
• Trystero - UP!
• Revent - on deck
• Benginal - probably moved down
• SteelHorse - be ready to move up
• vra379971
• Deckhand
• Brian Shanahan

I've also made a post to track our progress on decathalon objectives.

It was nice of Brennus to build SH for us. Hopefully he will use the GPro to build a shrine for us. But I agree it is too early to pick a target. I am ready to do scouting (and build shiny wonders), though.

ChrisShaffer said:

My daughter and I have December 14 marked on our calendar and we are counting the days.

This, despite my extreme displeasure at Gimil's treatment in the original movie trilogy. Dwarves are not laughingstocks!

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The multiple dwarf tossing jokes were a bit much. As much as I liked the super extended versions of LOTR, I am not crazy about having to wait 3 years to see the entire Hobbit.

Trystero said:

Very nice set Neil. It's nice when things go according to plan. I will depend heavily on your micro skills to plan my turnset. It looks like you've planned things out for the next 20 turns or so already.

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Yes, I believe the last time I played in a SGOTM, that my mistake was always optimising the current turnset, and losing focus of where we are going.

The testing I did had no advantage in skipping hunting in my turnset, the benefits only appeared later.

Benginal has already suggested a few things, so I am going to test a few options.

It was nice of Brennus to build SH for us. Hopefully he will use the GPro to build a shrine for us. But I agree it is too early to pick a target. I am ready to do scouting (and build shiny wonders), though.

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THIS. He founded Buddhism, so he will hopefully build a shrine when his prophet arrives. Yay!


edit: I haven't shown my daughter LOTR yet, she will be 7 in November. She does love Star Wars though (originals ONLY so far)

How long will it take to research Myst->Priesthood? Are we going to go via Med or Poly? Poly eventually leads to Lit whilst taking a bit longer but Med is faster and opens up the door to Monarchy.

What will our Oracle target be?

Stealing IW will probably just require the espionage slider to max for a couple of turns (hopefully less than what it actually takes us if we were to research it!)

Long term plan, I think we want our whole continent to ourself for a space race setup if need be.

Do we consider giving a gift junk city to Brennus to get him to Pleased so he plots on other AI rather than us. I THINK it is hard coded for an AI to not plot for the first 80 turns or something like that?

Post Oracle, what are our plans?

Also, what do you guys think of stealing IW, Physics or Astro? What would make the mapmaker decide to steal one of these techs specifically? How will it be confirmed if we've done it?

Here's to hoping that the other AI does not start with mining or the wheel! That would eliminate a third of the Civs!

Going on a personal hunch, I would think the map maker has added the German, the Russian and the Arabian empire. Really strong suspicions on the German however. Late UU that can even beat Modern Armours if promoted right!

Good points Revent,

Normally I go Myst->Poly->PH, as Poly is a much more useful tech early on, but we are already a little late to Oracle, so going Med could be a very good idea.

Oracle targets would probably be CoL or MC, simply because they are so expensive. We aren't Philo, so an Aesthetics Oracle for early Lit & Great Lib isn't as powerful. If we met several more AI, Alphabet could be a legitimate target. MC (Colossus) does tie nicely with a coastal city empire though.

Long term plan - yes we should own the whole continent, but not before we have met other trading partners.

Junk city, no way. It just means 1 more city to conquer. Brennus built Stonehenge so will be stunted compared to us.

Stealing techs. kcd has thought about this a bit, as the 3 techs are buggers. We want IW early to connect gems. It is the only non-calendar happy resource we can see.
Astro is real bugger, as we want to establish overseas trade routes as soon as possible (especially with our GLH strat)
Physics! we would have to wait until 1600ad to steal this.

I suspect that our hemisphere will have some troublesome AI.
- Toku & Shaka would be my guesses.

The other hemisphere will be financial, probably all of them.
- Mansa so that the other hemisphere will probably out-tech us later. (edit: except we know there is no Mansa, unless kcd removed a Skirmisher. I did this in my first SG map, gave some AI extra, took some away from others just so the teams couldn't guess who was who)
- Liz or Vicky that gets Redcoats (this almost worked in my last map, they were supposed to get Rifling).
- Inca
- Wang Kon


edit: Just noticed this in the logs. This was almost massively unlucky

Turn 37, 2520 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior is hit for 11 (1/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 35 (0/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Here is the latest test save.
It is different from the real save by 1 extra beaker.


edit: and I am really sorry I have been spamming the thread. I'm just (sadly) excited about sgotm.

I have done some more testing, for the Worker out of Paris first scenario (after WB, in 2 turns).

The micro for 'GP Farm' (previously known as City 2) is set. It is very precise to get us Lighthouse, Settler & GLH by 1120bc. If we wish to get GLH on 1160bc, it can be done but without getting the settler. Is everyone comfortable with 1120bc ?

City 4 is founded on the forested silk (which we chop just before hand) on t69 (1240bc). City 5 for the Clams/Gems/Pigs on t75 (1000bc). We can sustain 50% research at 1000bc with 5 cities.

Cap has whipped Granary, with overflow finishing the Lighthouse so both are finished when it grows back to size 4.


I will try Settler first tomorrow.

ps. In the test game, I build Oracle in 750bc reliably to grab MC.

ChrisShaffer said:

My daughter and I have December 14 marked on our calendar and we are counting the days.

This, despite my extreme displeasure at Gimil's treatment in the original movie trilogy. Dwarves are not laughingstocks!

Click to expand...

Except for when we're drunk!

As regards the game, it is shaping up nicely. Our splendid empire is developing well, and we'll be easily able to beat them backward Gauls with our Frankish sexual magnetism.

We've three monster cities so far, with another to settle, a second to conquer off the barbs (nice barbses building our precious) and a third to chop out of the southern jungles.

And with those advantages there is no way I can see the AI beating us, so now we have to bend our wills to winning the series. And with our team we can do that.

neilmeister said:

The micro for 'GP Farm' (previously known as City 2) is set. It is very precise to get us Lighthouse, Settler & GLH by 1120bc. If we wish to get GLH on 1160bc, it can be done but without getting the settler. Is everyone comfortable with 1120bc ?

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Is there a list somewhere of the range of expected wonder dates at various difficulty levels and map sizes?

Revent said:

Also Chris, would you be allowed to open a save from Turn 6 or whenever you met Brennus and give a print screen of the Victory Conditions and a print screen of Paris?

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Here you go.

Um, guys, Judaism was founded in 2400 BC (turn 40). Does that have any bearing on the Oracle timing?

Trystero said:

... I am not crazy about having to wait 3 years to see the entire Hobbit.

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Maybe they are giving the "and back again" more treatment than Tolkien did.

Revent said:

How Going on a personal hunch, I would think the map maker has added the German, the Russian and the Arabian empire. Really strong suspicions on the German however. Late UU that can even beat Modern Armours if promoted right!

Click to expand...

Do AIs ever promote right or build the right units?

ChrisShaffer said:

Um, guys, Judaism was founded in 2400 BC (turn 40). Does that have any bearing on the Oracle timing?

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nothing productive to say, keep up the good work

neilmeister said:

Here is the latest test save.
It is different from the real save by 1 extra beaker.


edit: and I am really sorry I have been spamming the thread. I'm just (sadly) excited about sgotm.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the test save. I will play through this (and the settler first plan, if it is ready) tonight to prepare for my turnset.

I did a bunch of tests for Oracle build times in SGOTM13, but that map was different enough that I don't think they are particularly relevant (GW and SH went much earlier in this game). I might run some games with the current settings and our predicted opponents, to get an idea of the range for The Oracle.