SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

First early-draft.
This is development-greedy, but lacks scouting a bit.

IHT
Paris -- nada
Orleans -- Worker finish camp and on it. 2nd worker (chopper) to 2N Paris. Leave all MPs here, grow on Galley (8H invested).
Lyons -- take cottage from Orleans. Worker Cottage+cancel

T79
Paris -- settler, 2F1H and new citizen to 4H mines. Worker roads.
Orleans -- Resume Settler. Deer worker to 1S Orleans.
Lyons -- worker on fp wheat.

T80
Paris -- nada
Orleans -- worker 1S, road+cancel.
Lyons -- worker farm wheat

T81 -- PAUSE after Orleans border pop if seafood is revealed.
Paris -- worker to NE PH forest
Orleans -- whip settler (38/100)
Lyons -- worker to 1NE of Lyons, finish cottage

T82
100% Research
Paris -- worker roads. Whip settler (33/100)
Orleans -- OF into Galley (52/50). Horse to deer. Settler to Wine.
Lyons -- worker to wheat. New pop on cottage.

T83
Research Mathematics
OB with Brennus
Paris -- OF to library. Settler to 2N Paris -- Paris is now 2F short to get growth in 1t (hence 2F1H > 4H !)
Orleans -- Start warrior. Take back cottage and remove horse (growth). Galley to Fish tile
Lyons -- workers finish wheat -> on it.

T84
Paris -- settler founds Rheims at fish+pig+deer. Resume warrior
Orleans -- Galley scouts a bit...
Lyons -- 2 workers to Oasis
Rheims -- (wb, granary, LH). Worker chops

As I only ran some more turns after GLH previously. So just some observations:

1. About the worker in lyons, is it necessary to farm the wheat? we could let it finish the cottage and chop the forest on the western PH. Is is enough to let it grow to size 4 in time? It would be good if we can have 2 workers to improve the wine city until the pig is pastured.

2. Paris can work on 2 mines this turn and whip the settler out 1 turn earlier and the worker could go to the PH tile 3N1W of Paris mine/chop, seems that it could finish the mine in time.

3. I prefer to finish Writing immediately and OB with Brennus, let him send some missionaries and get the diplomatic bonus earlier.

4. Orleans growing to size 7 has a penalty of unhealthy, also delays the settlement of wine city to gain OF to galley. I think the earlier wine city deserves 1 more whip in Orleans. Moreover, it frees the chariot to guard the north.

I'm thinking about the feasibility of producing 1st GP in Orleans, better chance of getting GS, even it's a GM, it's quite useful, we can either settle it in the food poor Paris, or bulb the CS?

^ Agree with that and we might want to keep the GP pool in Paris <only priests> as we'll want to shrine Brennus holy cities at some point.

Library in Orleans means delayed Galley -> no island scouting.
Since there are some good settling locations anyway, it seems okay... but we're tying up our best production city.

soundjata said:

^ Agree with that and we might want to keep the GP pool in Paris <only priests> as we'll want to shrine Brennus holy cities at some point.

Click to expand...

It's not too hard to produce some GPriests in late stage, especially with multiple temples and cathedrals. Paris's GP pool will be contaminated for sure since we are going to build many wonders there.

kossin said:

Library in Orleans means delayed Galley -> no island scouting.
Since there are some good settling locations anyway, it seems okay... but we're tying up our best production city.

Click to expand...

There's always trade-off. We have to sacrifice a city for the GS. I'm not sure whether Lyons can produce a GS before Paris. The thing I don't like is skipping granary there and slow down the developing of wine city. Ideally if we could chop the 2 forests to the granary and improve the pig in wine city as soon as possible, we can use this city as the backup of GS production, 2nd GP of course.

We don't need to delay the galley, whip it after the settler, as what sossos suggested, let the OF into library. This GP is not in a hurry, it only needs to beat the date of Paris so there's still some room to whip another settler in Orleans.

Edit: Maybe whip the library and let the OF to galley is better. Favors research but slows down scouting.

Hey guys.
Sorry for my silence these days but as you may have guessed, baby n.2 was born this weekend, so the past few days have been quite busy!!I really have no idea right now about how I will be able to contribute to this game in the coming weeks, I'll have to see how much Civ time this new life leaves me.
I'll try my best though...

On topic: in my longer tests, I've tried getting the first GP in Paris and Orleans, and while it does slow down scouting, I found that it fits well with Orleans. The timing is fine, and the chances to get a GS are much better in the end.

See you soon!

Congrats Bebekija.
Good luck and patience with the new life

Félicitations!
Prends le temps dont tu as besoin, on te gardera quelques tours vers la fin pour tuer le barbare

On game: need more testing from my part. Not getting a library ASAP in Lyons makes things easier in the north (especially getting that 4th much-needed-worker).

Congratulations, Bebekija!

I you already are a veteran and know everything about handling a baby. I wish your baby good health and happy life.

So it is at least the fifth duckling in the team. (Bebe 2, sound 2, me 1, correct me if I am wrong).

Sossos 1 IIRC

Congratulations, Bebekija!

shakabrade said:

Congratulations, Bebekija!

I you already are a veteran and know everything about handling a baby. I wish your baby good health and happy life.

So it is at least the fifth duckling in the team. (Bebe 2, sound 2, me 1, correct me if I am wrong).

Click to expand...

For sure, you are not right.

Lol!
And my father always asks me when will I finally stop playing games and grow up.

So almost all ducks have ducklings. At least seven. And all, if I understand correctly have academic degree, mostly in fields with lot of mathematics. And I think you are all older than me. Oh, how will I use this argument when the time comes. Interesting how being a civilization gamer is so far from your average no-lifer.


And Kossin, statistics says you should be very careful.

@Bebe

Congratulations.



Bebe is in the middle

shakabrade said:

Lol!
And my father always asks me when will I finally stop playing games and grow up.

So almost all ducks have ducklings. At least seven. And all, if I understand correctly have academic degree, mostly in fields with lot of mathematics. And I think you are all older than me. Oh, how will I use this argument when the time comes. Interesting how being a civilization gamer is so far from your average no-lifer.


And Kossin, statistics says you should be very careful.

Click to expand...

indeed.

I'm not THAT old but the thirties are not too far off either

~~~

I just got home, need to do a few chores then I'll resume testing.

Duckweed said:

As I only ran some more turns after GLH previously. So just some observations:

1. About the worker in lyons, is it necessary to farm the wheat? we could let it finish the cottage and chop the forest on the western PH. Is is enough to let it grow to size 4 in time? It would be good if we can have 2 workers to improve the wine city until the pig is pastured.
I guess this is not really applicable anymore with the idea of letting Orleans pop the GP.

2. Paris can work on 2 mines this turn and whip the settler out 1 turn earlier and the worker could go to the PH tile 3N1W of Paris mine/chop, seems that it could finish the mine in time.
No this doesn't work because Paris is size 5, you can't 3-whip.
Alternatively, I've tried chopping to Paris so that the OF from the settler creates a worker.


3. I prefer to finish Writing immediately and OB with Brennus, let him send some missionaries and get the diplomatic bonus earlier.
Agreed.

4. Orleans growing to size 7 has a penalty of unhealthy, also delays the settlement of wine city to gain OF to galley. I think the earlier wine city deserves 1 more whip in Orleans. Moreover, it frees the chariot to guard the north.
Yea it works out well.

Click to expand...

Comments... I need more tests obviously.
The library in Orleans really delays the Galley a lot but I guess the second whip is okay in this regard.

EDIT: 2 alternatives based on your suggestions. I have difficulty justifying forest chops in Lyons when Mathematics is so close. All alternatives are interchangeable in-between cities.

The one better use for Lyons worker would be a road to accelerate Wine city by 1 turn... but have not tried it... maybe later tonight after the Symphony.

kossin said:

Comments... I need more tests obviously.
The library in Orleans really delays the Galley a lot but I guess the second whip is okay in this regard.

EDIT: 2 alternatives based on your suggestions. I have difficulty justifying forest chops in Lyons when Mathematics is so close. All alternatives are interchangeable in-between cities.

The one better use for Lyons worker would be a road to accelerate Wine city by 1 turn... but have not tried it... maybe later tonight after the Symphony.

Click to expand...

I don't think the delay of Galley is a big problem. We've got 2 fantistic spot for C4/C5 and we don't have enough hands to settle on islands. The purpose of chariot scouting is mainly for the trade routes.

Yes, we can whip instead of chopping before maths. In my mind, the trees are mainly used to accelarate building wonder and granary.

shakabrade said:

Lol!
And my father always asks me when will I finally stop playing games and grow up.

So almost all ducks have ducklings. At least seven. And all, if I understand correctly have academic degree, mostly in fields with lot of mathematics. And I think you are all older than me. Oh, how will I use this argument when the time comes. Interesting how being a civilization gamer is so far from your average no-lifer.


And Kossin, statistics says you should be very careful.

Click to expand...

In my eyes, life is just another game. Is there anything proved immortal in this world?

My daughter and my wife also play civ 4, but it's difficult to interest my father either.

kossin said:

1. About the worker in lyons, is it necessary to farm the wheat? we could let it finish the cottage and chop the forest on the western PH. Is is enough to let it grow to size 4 in time? It would be good if we can have 2 workers to improve the wine city until the pig is pastured.
I guess this is not really applicable anymore with the idea of letting Orleans pop the GP.

Click to expand...

I did not consider the GP issue when I ran those tests, just tried to optimize the micro considering a little bit into future. However, the idea did not conflict with producing 1st GP from Orleans. Basically, I'd like to chop a forest (on the western PH tile) into Lyons and then do the 1 pop whip of granary (I think the earlier granary deserves the loss of 10H). Then we can gather 2 workers (another one from the Deer tile) to serve for wine city (cottage->partial chop of 2 forests->pasture the pig? depends on when can we have Math) since Lyons is going to have 2 FP cottages (1 shared with Orelans) to work.

kossin said:

2. Paris can work on 2 mines this turn and whip the settler out 1 turn earlier and the worker could go to the PH tile 3N1W of Paris mine/chop, seems that it could finish the mine in time.
No this doesn't work because Paris is size 5, you can't 3-whip.
Alternatively, I've tried chopping to Paris so that the OF from the settler creates a worker.

Click to expand...

I see, sossos moved the chariot back to Paris so that Paris can grow to size 6. My memory was that this chariot was guarding the south.

I'm not interested in chopping the forests in Paris, especially before Math. If you really feel the short of worker, you can try to 2 pop whip it from Paris.

Unless we want OF to something, we should try to avoid producing worker/settler for more 2 turns since it's inefficient to convert foods to hammers that way.

The chop in Paris allows for the addition of worker #4 by turn 84. But at the same time, I see it's not necessary for some turns yet.

I've been testing for the last 90 minutes but I'm way past bedtime now, so tomorrow shall reveal more results!