SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
1 turn of 40% slider will give us visibility of Hammy's research.
Both Hammy and Qin are the tech leaders (after us obviously), and are both capable of going for Guilds.
I think we should do this, maybe after PP is finished. Thoughts?
Both Hammy and Qin are the tech leaders (after us obviously), and are both capable of going for Guilds.
I think we should do this, maybe after PP is finished. Thoughts?
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
How many lightbulbs does that represent?
Yes, it's Friday afternoon here, just after lunch.
Yes, it's Friday afternoon here, just after lunch.
Interesting. Is that a one time sort of thing. Or will we have to do it again ten turns later? I'm a bit hesitant to do this. But that's just because I've never done it before. It has the potential to be really useful though!
40% espionage slider gives 158 EP's
40% gold gives 153 gold
40% research gives us 202 beakers.
So seeing what Hammy is researching next will 'cost' us 202 beakers.
But considering that Guilds is worth 1560 beakers and Banking 1092, which we hope to get one of in a trade, I think it is money well spent.
As long as we split our EP's on Qin and Hammy, we should be able to maintain the research visibility
40% gold gives 153 gold
40% research gives us 202 beakers.
So seeing what Hammy is researching next will 'cost' us 202 beakers.
But considering that Guilds is worth 1560 beakers and Banking 1092, which we hope to get one of in a trade, I think it is money well spent.
As long as we split our EP's on Qin and Hammy, we should be able to maintain the research visibility
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Well, theoretically the trade will happen whether we know what they are researching or not. Does the money spent gain us anything quantifiable?
We would know:
- what we probably don't have to research.
- if they are going towards Lib or Economics for that matter
- what we probably don't have to research.
- if they are going towards Lib or Economics for that matter
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Does it wear off over time, or would we have to do it again?
Its a measure of the EP ratio you have on someone.
So, we would have to split the EP's between Hammy & Qin to maintain research visibility, but we wouldn't need the slider again.
So, we would have to split the EP's between Hammy & Qin to maintain research visibility, but we wouldn't need the slider again.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I could be persuaded that this is a good idea, if others agree.
OK guys, I have played 2 turns, and there are Celtic units starting to come from the west. Brennus' stack has finally made it to a road, so the chariots are 3 turns from Bibracte, the GW & Axes are 6 turns away.
I think we will need to change the plan, and leave Vienne until after the stack has been vanquished. Simply because we don't know where the stack is going, and we can't afford to spread ourselves too thin.
Camulodonum still only has 2 units in it, so I am thinking we divert some troops (2 trebs and 2 maces) from the reinforcements, and get the still healing Vermalion survivors to meet them there in 2 turns. Camulodonum will fall in 3 turns, giving us a much more defendable 'front'.
If his stack decides to hole up in a city, then that is great news, as our trebs & maces get big bonuses for attacking cities, and we can collateral it into submission.
I will post the save - paused - as there are a lot of units not moved.
PP is 1 turn away, at 20% research. I haven't done anything regarding EP's on hammy as that has not been agreed to.
edit:
In other news:
- Celtic chariots in our territory have been vanquished
- we lost a treb reinforcement to a spear
- the confused missionary failed to spread to Zhou.
I think we will need to change the plan, and leave Vienne until after the stack has been vanquished. Simply because we don't know where the stack is going, and we can't afford to spread ourselves too thin.
Camulodonum still only has 2 units in it, so I am thinking we divert some troops (2 trebs and 2 maces) from the reinforcements, and get the still healing Vermalion survivors to meet them there in 2 turns. Camulodonum will fall in 3 turns, giving us a much more defendable 'front'.
If his stack decides to hole up in a city, then that is great news, as our trebs & maces get big bonuses for attacking cities, and we can collateral it into submission.
I will post the save - paused - as there are a lot of units not moved.
PP is 1 turn away, at 20% research. I haven't done anything regarding EP's on hammy as that has not been agreed to.
edit:
In other news:
- Celtic chariots in our territory have been vanquished
- we lost a treb reinforcement to a spear
- the confused missionary failed to spread to Zhou.
Upload log
edit: Sorry, Buffy log didn't work for some reason.
Spoiler :
edit: Sorry, Buffy log didn't work for some reason.
We have 1 galleon each blocking & giving visiblity of both Camuludonum & Isca.
The 3rd is sailing back out to the island, mainly in anticipation of moving the worker & missionaries.
edit: we could move some troops around, but there seems to be a stream of units flowing from the west.
We have visiblity of 3 GW, 1 Chariot, 2 Spears, 2 Axes, 1 LB, galley all in Isca or further east.
Brennus main stack was 6 GW's, 4 Axes, 2 Spears and about 6-7 Chariots.
The 3rd is sailing back out to the island, mainly in anticipation of moving the worker & missionaries.
edit: we could move some troops around, but there seems to be a stream of units flowing from the west.
We have visiblity of 3 GW, 1 Chariot, 2 Spears, 2 Axes, 1 LB, galley all in Isca or further east.
Brennus main stack was 6 GW's, 4 Axes, 2 Spears and about 6-7 Chariots.
And we have a lot of reinforcements still coming.
Here are some screenies
Here are some screenies
Spoiler :
Pre Play Plan
Play 3 turns until Camulodunum taken
1. Technologies
Printing Press at 20% for 1 turns, then 0% and save cash.
Espionage at 0%, all ESP on Hammy, then split our 18 EP's/t 2:1 Hammy:Qin. Its 50% now as in the last 2 turns the cost to see his research has increased 12 EP's and 40% leaves us a few EP short.
2. Dealing with AI
Qin is now +5, only 2 more needed for friendly, we are yet to get the resources bonus, we just got another shared civic +1, so the next civic +1 is 9 turns away.
Espionage at 50% for 1 turn, all ESP on Hammy, then split our 18 EP's/t 2:1 Hammy:Qin.
Qin has no EP's on us, despite us putting all of ours on him for some time.
Hammy has 125 on us, the cost to see his research is increasing 6 EP/t.
Refuse demands from Brennus, Ramesses II, and Saladin. Consider demands from others if interesting, but likely refuse.
Keep an eye on map trades with other hemisphere.
Remote spy heads to Qin
3. City placement and builds
No new cities this set.
4. General micro
Tile changes:
- Wheat work PH mine & plains cottage, it will still grow this turn.
- Piggies over mines in Clams.
- Grass cottage rather than plains cottage in Commerce
Paris: Uni
GP Farm: Uni
Production: Treb
Commerce: Uni
Clams: Treb
West Fish: Uni
Barb City: Uni
Zhou: Uni
Fake Humbaba: Forge (whip this turn for 27 o/f into Harbor)
West Coast Silk: Harbor -> Chariot (garrison)
Wheat: whip Pike when available
Red Fish Blue Fish: CH, whip in 2 turns (this city grows 2 pop every 3 turns
)
Workers
Workers 1 & 9 continue cottage Jungle next to WCS (1t), then chop & cottage riverside jungle next to Vermalion
Worker 2 continue workshopping island, only 3 tiles to go.
Worker 3 mine Iron (4t)
Worker 4 mine GH (4t)
Worker 5 cottage Clams plains tile that can be shared with Paris (4t)
Worker 6 continue workshop Production forest (6t)
Worker 7 continue barb city watermill (5t)
Worker 8 finish Paris cottage on plains forest (2t), then cottage plains 1E of Paris
Worker 10 finish Paris cottage on plains forest (2t), then cottage plains 1E of Paris
Worker 11 continue chopping Wheat plains (1t), then farm grass tile 1W
Great People
GS to be saved for Corp/Golden Age/bulbing SM
GE to be saved for Mining Inc
GM to be saved for Sushi/used for trade mission
GA to be saved for a culture bomb.
5. Civics and Religion
Attempt to convert Hammy to Beauro
6. War
Continue war, focus on Camulodunum & Brennus' SoD
Camulodunum stacks
3 Maces (injured) & X-bow in Veramilion, move towards Camulodunum, arrives in 2 turns
2 Trebs & 2 Maces from reinforcement stack (north of Bibracte), move towards Camulodunum, arrives in 2 turns
Take Camulodunum on 3rd turn.
Bibracte stack - all in place or arriving within 2 turns
These could/should pick off stray Celtic units
Super medic Chariot (Medic III and +1 extra movement)
Chariot (Medic I)
8 Maces
4 X-bows
2 Pikes
1 LB
3 Cats
6 Trebs
Tolosa defenders
1 X-bow & 1 spear
Veramilion defender
1 spear
Reinforcements built & en route
1 Mace & 4 Trebs
7. Bigger picture
Smash Brennus
Get other hemisphere up to speed, but not with Paper/Edu
Get 6 universities. (You are right Revent, its only 6 we need)
Play 3 turns until Camulodunum taken
1. Technologies
Printing Press at 20% for 1 turns, then 0% and save cash.
Espionage at 0%, all ESP on Hammy, then split our 18 EP's/t 2:1 Hammy:Qin. Its 50% now as in the last 2 turns the cost to see his research has increased 12 EP's and 40% leaves us a few EP short.
2. Dealing with AI
Qin is now +5, only 2 more needed for friendly, we are yet to get the resources bonus, we just got another shared civic +1, so the next civic +1 is 9 turns away.
Espionage at 50% for 1 turn, all ESP on Hammy, then split our 18 EP's/t 2:1 Hammy:Qin.
Qin has no EP's on us, despite us putting all of ours on him for some time.
Hammy has 125 on us, the cost to see his research is increasing 6 EP/t.
Refuse demands from Brennus, Ramesses II, and Saladin. Consider demands from others if interesting, but likely refuse.
Keep an eye on map trades with other hemisphere.
Remote spy heads to Qin
3. City placement and builds
No new cities this set.
4. General micro
Tile changes:
- Wheat work PH mine & plains cottage, it will still grow this turn.
- Piggies over mines in Clams.
- Grass cottage rather than plains cottage in Commerce
Paris: Uni
GP Farm: Uni
Production: Treb
Commerce: Uni
Clams: Treb
West Fish: Uni
Barb City: Uni
Zhou: Uni
Fake Humbaba: Forge (whip this turn for 27 o/f into Harbor)
West Coast Silk: Harbor -> Chariot (garrison)
Wheat: whip Pike when available
Red Fish Blue Fish: CH, whip in 2 turns (this city grows 2 pop every 3 turns
)Workers
Workers 1 & 9 continue cottage Jungle next to WCS (1t), then chop & cottage riverside jungle next to Vermalion
Worker 2 continue workshopping island, only 3 tiles to go.
Worker 3 mine Iron (4t)
Worker 4 mine GH (4t)
Worker 5 cottage Clams plains tile that can be shared with Paris (4t)
Worker 6 continue workshop Production forest (6t)
Worker 7 continue barb city watermill (5t)
Worker 8 finish Paris cottage on plains forest (2t), then cottage plains 1E of Paris
Worker 10 finish Paris cottage on plains forest (2t), then cottage plains 1E of Paris
Worker 11 continue chopping Wheat plains (1t), then farm grass tile 1W
Great People
GS to be saved for Corp/Golden Age/bulbing SM
GE to be saved for Mining Inc
GM to be saved for Sushi/used for trade mission
GA to be saved for a culture bomb.
5. Civics and Religion
Attempt to convert Hammy to Beauro
6. War
Continue war, focus on Camulodunum & Brennus' SoD
Camulodunum stacks
3 Maces (injured) & X-bow in Veramilion, move towards Camulodunum, arrives in 2 turns
2 Trebs & 2 Maces from reinforcement stack (north of Bibracte), move towards Camulodunum, arrives in 2 turns
Take Camulodunum on 3rd turn.
Bibracte stack - all in place or arriving within 2 turns
These could/should pick off stray Celtic units
Super medic Chariot (Medic III and +1 extra movement)
Chariot (Medic I)
8 Maces
4 X-bows
2 Pikes
1 LB
3 Cats
6 Trebs
Tolosa defenders
1 X-bow & 1 spear
Veramilion defender
1 spear
Reinforcements built & en route
1 Mace & 4 Trebs
7. Bigger picture
Smash Brennus
Get other hemisphere up to speed, but not with Paper/Edu
Get 6 universities. (You are right Revent, its only 6 we need)
Or am i just being a wuss and I should just take Vienne now ??
edit: no, I don't think so. The Bibracte stack looks awesome, but if we split it in 2, it suddenly doesn't look so crash hot anymore. Once we take Camulodunum, and the survivors come back, we will be in a much better position re: the approaching SoD.
edit: no, I don't think so. The Bibracte stack looks awesome, but if we split it in 2, it suddenly doesn't look so crash hot anymore. Once we take Camulodunum, and the survivors come back, we will be in a much better position re: the approaching SoD.
I would stay in Bibracte if it looks like the stack is coming towards you. If it looks like they're not, go take Vienne. But I think in the units vs turns tradeoff, I prefer units. In other words, I'd rather the war go longer and us lose fewer units.
An extra free 3k beakers is never a bad thing. 
Works out to an extra 30 beakers a turn for the rest of the game if we played another 100 turns only!
Plus, with bulbing, I think it's pretty realistic. The AI aren't exactly a challenge on Emp
@Ben, I know it's not equal. But the AI do prioritise stuff like gunpowder, banking, econ and nationalism which actually works in our favour! Gifting them all guilds means that you can expect one to research gunpowder and another to research banking.
By the way, I suggest that the AI's getting banking should co-incide with us switching over to Caste and Pacifism. Our research rate will drop a lot during Merc time and it takes at least 25 turns before an AI will consider switching; this is coded. (Perhaps EP may be used here, not sure if it works???)
Anyway, whilst our research rate has dropped by a big portion, we can then rely on heavy bulbing to get to our target.
In my opinion, taking a detour for Chem to Lib bio is a waste. This is because AI will trade away stuff like Chemistry even if they have a monopoly. The beauty of Libbing Radio is we can generate a GS to bulb us SM. We can finish over 2/3's of SM or so I think. Meanwhile, we finish researching it and start Physics. Use our next GS to bulb Physics which gives us a GS. By the way, for bulbing, may I suggest that we only bulb our techs so that as soon as we bulb, we get the tech or are one turn away from it? Since our heavy bulbing will start pretty much when we switch to caste, our cities will only grow, so bulbing at the beginning wouldn't make sense because cities growing mean more beakers, even if only a little, it makes no difference.
Also, I'm liking the idea of Libbing radio because of CR. That wonder will be so powerful imo and let us micromanage the game to every last detail? Need to get out a unit quickly just for now? No problem, switch to slavery and whip? Next turn, switch back, etc...Plus, Eifel Tower is a pretty important wonder for us to have en route to culture. Plus, we will need to tech it anyway
Regarding the EP, I'm not so sure of it. A couple of more CH's in our new cities may prove to do the job as well.
Works out to an extra 30 beakers a turn for the rest of the game if we played another 100 turns only!Plus, with bulbing, I think it's pretty realistic. The AI aren't exactly a challenge on Emp
@Ben, I know it's not equal. But the AI do prioritise stuff like gunpowder, banking, econ and nationalism which actually works in our favour! Gifting them all guilds means that you can expect one to research gunpowder and another to research banking.
By the way, I suggest that the AI's getting banking should co-incide with us switching over to Caste and Pacifism.
Our research rate will drop a lot during Merc time and it takes at least 25 turns before an AI will consider switching; this is coded. (Perhaps EP may be used here, not sure if it works???)Anyway, whilst our research rate has dropped by a big portion, we can then rely on heavy bulbing to get to our target.
In my opinion, taking a detour for Chem to Lib bio is a waste. This is because AI will trade away stuff like Chemistry even if they have a monopoly. The beauty of Libbing Radio is we can generate a GS to bulb us SM. We can finish over 2/3's of SM or so I think. Meanwhile, we finish researching it and start Physics. Use our next GS to bulb Physics which gives us a GS. By the way, for bulbing, may I suggest that we only bulb our techs so that as soon as we bulb, we get the tech or are one turn away from it? Since our heavy bulbing will start pretty much when we switch to caste, our cities will only grow, so bulbing at the beginning wouldn't make sense because cities growing mean more beakers, even if only a little, it makes no difference.
Also, I'm liking the idea of Libbing radio because of CR. That wonder will be so powerful imo and let us micromanage the game to every last detail? Need to get out a unit quickly just for now? No problem, switch to slavery and whip? Next turn, switch back, etc...Plus, Eifel Tower is a pretty important wonder for us to have en route to culture.
Plus, we will need to tech it anyway Regarding the EP, I'm not so sure of it. A couple of more CH's in our new cities may prove to do the job as well.
Also, not sure if we should be taking Vienne atm since we don't know where Brennus's units are heading. Perhaps we could scout it to see if it is easy to take?
The last thing we want is to have Brennus fortify all his units in Vienne
The last thing we want is to have Brennus fortify all his units in Vienne
