SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Cool, just checking in, and nothing has happened yet, which can only be good. 
Teleconference starts in 5 minutes, so I will be out for another hour at least.
Teleconference starts in 5 minutes, so I will be out for another hour at least.
Buffy Log:
Some Screenshots:
The current situation:
The save is uploaded. I know I played an extra turn, but the force was with me and I was having fun!. I would have kept going, but it's a team game after all. Not to mention ive probably be messing something up. 
Spoiler :
Some Screenshots:
Spoiler :
The current situation:
Spoiler :
The save is uploaded. I know I played an extra turn, but the force was with me and I was having fun!
. I would have kept going, but it's a team game after all. Not to mention ive probably be messing something up.
Sounds awesome, 0 units lost & 2 cities captured, will need to download the save to have a closer look.
.. and I personally am glad you continued until Durnovia was captured.
.. and I personally am glad you continued until Durnovia was captured.
Bugger, no Qin Friendly at +8, thats a shame.
Make the Astro trade with Hammy for Music, Drama, gold & map. Astro does not open up anything he doesn't already have, and poses no risk to our Lib target.
edit: Corn & Spices to Qin for Ivory & 1gpt. This also means we are trading Qin 6 resources, so the next +1 for shared resources will happen very quickly.
Pig to SB for 1gpt.
We have enough gold to sustain 10 turns at 100%. This plan requires ~15. edit: actually, probably 14 due to all the Uni's & Salons we are about to finish
Proposed tech path:
- Chemistry (3t)
- Philo (~1 turn if we get Drama, assuming we can't trade for it)
- Lib(2 of 3t)
- SM (2t with Bulb)
- Biology(~6-7t)
- Lib(Finish)
- Free Medicine
Trade for Guilds when it is available, pray that Qin goes for Banking. Hammy goes for Nationalism.
edit:
If Qin starts Engineering or Optics next, then sell him it, for whatever he will give us. We want him to do either Banking or Nationalism
Make the Astro trade with Hammy for Music, Drama, gold & map. Astro does not open up anything he doesn't already have, and poses no risk to our Lib target.
edit: Corn & Spices to Qin for Ivory & 1gpt. This also means we are trading Qin 6 resources, so the next +1 for shared resources will happen very quickly.
Pig to SB for 1gpt.
We have enough gold to sustain 10 turns at 100%. This plan requires ~15. edit: actually, probably 14 due to all the Uni's & Salons we are about to finish
Proposed tech path:
- Chemistry (3t)
- Philo (~1 turn if we get Drama, assuming we can't trade for it)
- Lib(2 of 3t)
- SM (2t with Bulb)
- Biology(~6-7t)
- Lib(Finish)
- Free Medicine
Trade for Guilds when it is available, pray that Qin goes for Banking. Hammy goes for Nationalism.
edit:
If Qin starts Engineering or Optics next, then sell him it, for whatever he will give us. We want him to do either Banking or Nationalism
Graphs look great.
PR have been tracking our score graph very closely, and thats in the period where we are whipping like crazy, and they don't appear to be whipping, well not units anyway.
Ducks score is closely matching ours, though their power has been growing steadily and exceeds ours at the same point.
PR have been tracking our score graph very closely, and thats in the period where we are whipping like crazy, and they don't appear to be whipping, well not units anyway.
Ducks score is closely matching ours, though their power has been growing steadily and exceeds ours at the same point.
SteelHorse
Deity
Benginal - Good play.
I like the proposed tech path if we can get the Guilds trade. If we can't get the Guilds trade would we forgo first to Econ and the GM to get Bio/Med sooner? If Qin goes Banking after Guilds or Philo but isn't willing to trade either, we may lose the Econ race. Without getting Qin to Friendly, he looks a bit unwilling to trade.
Note that Hammy has met Rams. So we need to take into account the relationship before DoWing Rams. We don't Rams peace vassaling to Hammy.
I like the proposed tech path if we can get the Guilds trade. If we can't get the Guilds trade would we forgo first to Econ and the GM to get Bio/Med sooner? If Qin goes Banking after Guilds or Philo but isn't willing to trade either, we may lose the Econ race. Without getting Qin to Friendly, he looks a bit unwilling to trade.
Note that Hammy has met Rams. So we need to take into account the relationship before DoWing Rams. We don't Rams peace vassaling to Hammy.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I notice we didn't wait 24 hours after the PPP and haven't heard from Revent in a while. Maybe time to take a bit to reassess?
Chris, my thought was that the meat of the PPP had been discussed already a few days ago. I totally agree it's time for a new discussion. We have to again evaluate medicine or radio, warring on the other continent, and victory conditions, among others. Also, I think I've played a good handful of turns, so I'll pass along the baton to whomever is next!
Economics is still safe, as they need Education to get it, and none of them have even started Paper. If we do the trade for Ivory, the next +1 for shared resources is 7 turns away, the next +1 Beauro bonus is 8 or 9 turns away. So he will be at +10 in at most 9 turns. If he isn't Friendly by then I will be very upset.
Ah yes, Ramesses has met Hammy, thankfully he doesn't appear to like him.
Revent green lighted the basic plan several times, especially as we still haven't made a decision on the techs yet.
Ah yes, Ramesses has met Hammy, thankfully he doesn't appear to like him.
Revent green lighted the basic plan several times, especially as we still haven't made a decision on the techs yet.
Trystero
Deity
Nice job, Benginal! It looks like we are good shape.
I am up next. I will have time to look at the save today and start working on war plans and micro while we discuss how we will proceed from here. I think it is worthwhile to look over the list of decathlon objectives, and how we can most quickly accomplish those from here.
I am up next. I will have time to look at the save today and start working on war plans and micro while we discuss how we will proceed from here. I think it is worthwhile to look over the list of decathlon objectives, and how we can most quickly accomplish those from here.
The Decathlon objectives status: as of 11/16
- [*] Humbaba --an advanced era barbarian unit -- must be dead (Thanks Leif). He is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
This should be no problem at all, as we need Industrialism to get FT1, so we will have Marines. Half a dozen Marines = everything inside the Haven is dead.
[*] You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities.
I have done an analysis on this in the past, linked here. The cpt assumed from buildings will be about right for Paris, but is probably a bit optimistic for city 2. But I have only assumed 3 religions, and we will probably get 5, so the numbers still hold up. IMO, this won't be a problem.
[*] You are EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident.
AP will be finished in 7 turns, and I would 4 pop whip it in 5 turns just to try make sure. If it is Buddhist, we get 90% of the votes.
[*] You have learned Future Tech 1.
This is still the bottleneck, and deserves its own post.
[*] At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team.
Sorry Brennus, this means you. His extra island city just means we can do it last. Edit: maybe even after taking out Ramesses
[*] You own at least three Holy Shrines.
We have already the Mahabodhi and the Kong Maoi is in our near future.
-Best case is Ramesses gets another Prophet and builds it before we take Memphis.
-OK case is we get a Prophet ourselves, used in Memphis.
-Worst case is we choose a lucky city in other hemisphere for future ownership.
[*] You own at least three Corporate Headquarters
Sushi(GM) is a given, the other 2 depend on what GP's we get. Ideally we want Mining Inc(GE) and Civ Jewellers(GA) I think, but we can take the 2 GS corps or the other GM corp.
-
You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.Completed! IW stolen from Brennus on turn 114
[*] You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination.
Hmmm, so many options:
Domination, Religious, Diplomatic & Cultural are the contenders. in decreasing order of likelihood.
One option not canvassed is winning both Religious & Diplo. If we never research Mass Media, then we never obsolete AP. Our population will mean we are always the opponent in a UN vote. Obviously the timings would have to be really lucky, but its not impossible.
-
Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns – or victory or defeat - not later than 2 months after game start. - Completed! Played 101 turns on 10/16
The problem with this is that we want the AP votes to co-incide with the UN, we will need to build the UN ourself (which we cannot if we build the AP) since we will want the vote timing to co-incide for both. That would be impossible if the AP was built on an odd turn and the UN on an even or vice versa. Leaving that to chance is not advisable. However, having said that, if it happens, that just means we can divert our focus on something else instead such as getting to FT1 faster.[*] You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination.
Hmmm, so many options:
Domination, Religious, Diplomatic & Cultural are the contenders. in decreasing order of likelihood.
One option not canvassed is winning both Religious & Diplo.
I do apologise for my lack of input lately.
Yes, it is unlikely, but you never know. There is a way to control the voting cycle.
The turn after ownership of UN changes, a new resident vote is forced, resetting the cycle.
We could always conquer a city with the UN in it, and gift it to someone else to align the voting cycles.
The turn after ownership of UN changes, a new resident vote is forced, resetting the cycle.
We could always conquer a city with the UN in it, and gift it to someone else to align the voting cycles.
Long term proposed tech path:
- Chemistry (3t)
- Philo (~1 turn if we get Drama, assuming we can't trade for it)
- Lib(2 of 3t)
- SM (2t with Bulb)
- Biology(6-7t)
- gift tech lead away to the other continent, except Edu
- Lib(Finish)
- Free Medicine
- Guilds (hopefully we can trade for it by now
)
- Banking (hopefully by trade) - whip Banks
- Economics (sushi GM)
- Nationalism (hopefully by trade)
- Constitution (maybe by trade)
- Golden Age super-revolt to Rep, CS, FM, Pacifism and maybe FS (no more Friendly Qin & Hammy)
- Corporation (sushi time)
- Replaceable Parts
- Steam Power (hello levee's)
- Assembly Line (hello factories)
Once we can confidently get our Lib target (Medicine?), then we should gift away our current tech lead.
We will get it back again with the help of 10 Sushi & Representation fueled Scientist specialists in every city.
- Chemistry (3t)
- Philo (~1 turn if we get Drama, assuming we can't trade for it)
- Lib(2 of 3t)
- SM (2t with Bulb)
- Biology(6-7t)
- gift tech lead away to the other continent, except Edu
- Lib(Finish)
- Free Medicine
- Guilds (hopefully we can trade for it by now
)- Banking (hopefully by trade) - whip Banks
- Economics (sushi GM)
- Nationalism (hopefully by trade)
- Constitution (maybe by trade)
- Golden Age super-revolt to Rep, CS, FM, Pacifism and maybe FS (no more Friendly Qin & Hammy)
- Corporation (sushi time)
- Replaceable Parts
- Steam Power (hello levee's)
- Assembly Line (hello factories)
Once we can confidently get our Lib target (Medicine?), then we should gift away our current tech lead.
We will get it back again with the help of 10 Sushi & Representation fueled Scientist specialists in every city.
Yes, I am not against the idea, however, we shall not put all of our chips on it since it is risky; rather if it happens, it happens.
As for long term target, an issue to consider is that Sushi means large cities. Large cities mean greater emancipation unhappiness.
I think vassaling an AI or two on the other continent will really help us get to our VC. Obviously, the technicalities will have to be calculated since we don't want to trigger domination. But there are lots of pro's for doing so.
-UN vote will be in our favour
-AP vote will be in our favour
-We can have the AI research one part of the tech tree whilst we go through the other
-No trade limits with said AI
-Can counter and limit Emancipation unhappiness via no democracy.
-Opens route for domination and conquest VC if it does come to it.
-No unexpected war since our power will easily be double other AIs.
-Spreading corps to them should be relatively straight forward and profitable.
As for long term target, an issue to consider is that Sushi means large cities. Large cities mean greater emancipation unhappiness.
I think vassaling an AI or two on the other continent will really help us get to our VC. Obviously, the technicalities will have to be calculated since we don't want to trigger domination. But there are lots of pro's for doing so.
-UN vote will be in our favour
-AP vote will be in our favour
-We can have the AI research one part of the tech tree whilst we go through the other
-No trade limits with said AI
-Can counter and limit Emancipation unhappiness via no democracy.
-Opens route for domination and conquest VC if it does come to it.
-No unexpected war since our power will easily be double other AIs.
-Spreading corps to them should be relatively straight forward and profitable.
I completely agree that Domination is by far the most likely VC we will pursue. We could in fact have Domination ready and both Religious & Diplo brewing as the kicker, gives us more options on the timing.
A vassal (or 2) on the other continent would indeed be nice, for all the reasons you mentioned.
A vassal (or 2) on the other continent would indeed be nice, for all the reasons you mentioned.
Trystero
Deity
Proposed PPP, turns 172, 173, 174 (part1)
Tech path:
Keep the slider at 0% for 2 more turns, then run slider at 100% for Chemistry (3t).
City Micro:
Paris (54t whip unhappy) - whip Salon into ND next turn to get max overflow into ND.
GP Farm (16t unhappy) - slow build University (9t) > start Courthouse
Production (67t unhappy) - build AP (4 pop whip in 5t), assign next citizen (3t) as engineer specialist.
Commerce (8t unhappy) - next turn change 1 PH mine for cottage (so that it doesn't quite finish Uni), whip in 2 turns for stupendous o/f into Oxford University.
Clams (82t unhappy) - Buddhist temple (7t)
West Fish (54t unhappy) - 3 pop whip the Salon this turn, for 30h overflow into a Buddhist missionary for RFBF.
Barb City - (81t unhappy) - will grow to the cap next turn. Start Market, whip for max overflow into more trebuchets.
Zhou - (30t unhappy) - whip Salon this turn for max overflow into University of Sankore when stone comes online next turn.
Fake Humbaba (41t unhappy) - whip Buddhist monastery in 2 turns then start Market.
West Coast Silk (54t unhappy) - Whip Salon, overflow into Buddhist temple
Wheat - Buddhist temple (2t) > Buddhist monastery
Red Fish, Blue Fish - Finished Library - start Market. Needs Buddhism and a garrison unit.
Bribracte - Market > Courthouse
Sugar Gems - Buddhist temple (13t) > whip into monastery? This city has excess happiness and really needs to grow, but we should get Buddhist buildings in here ASAP for the AP and Sankore bonuses.
Ski Resort - Finished Forge - start Courthouse (17t) .
Camel Dumdum - Forge (56t). This is another city with excess happiness that needs to grow.
Stone - comes out of revolt in 1 turn, and we get stone. Whip away excess pop into Granary and maybe Library.
Durnovaria - 3 more turns of revolt then start Forge.
Gergovia - 6 turns of revolt then Forge.
Worker Micro:
More details in Part 2, but:
Worker 10 - Is on a tile where the sign indicates we should build a farm, however this tile cannot be worked by any city. Reassign worker
Worker 3/7/11 +2 - Are also on a tile indicated to be farmed that cannot actually be worked by a city. I will split these up.
I will be traveling most of tomorrow, so the rest of PPP will probably not be posted until Sunday.
Tech path:
Keep the slider at 0% for 2 more turns, then run slider at 100% for Chemistry (3t).
City Micro:
Paris (54t whip unhappy) - whip Salon into ND next turn to get max overflow into ND.
GP Farm (16t unhappy) - slow build University (9t) > start Courthouse
Production (67t unhappy) - build AP (4 pop whip in 5t), assign next citizen (3t) as engineer specialist.
Commerce (8t unhappy) - next turn change 1 PH mine for cottage (so that it doesn't quite finish Uni), whip in 2 turns for stupendous o/f into Oxford University.
Clams (82t unhappy) - Buddhist temple (7t)
West Fish (54t unhappy) - 3 pop whip the Salon this turn, for 30h overflow into a Buddhist missionary for RFBF.
Barb City - (81t unhappy) - will grow to the
cap next turn. Start Market, whip for max overflow into more trebuchets.Zhou - (30t unhappy) - whip Salon this turn for max overflow into University of Sankore when stone comes online next turn.
Fake Humbaba (41t unhappy) - whip Buddhist monastery in 2 turns then start Market.
West Coast Silk (54t unhappy) - Whip Salon, overflow into Buddhist temple
Wheat - Buddhist temple (2t) > Buddhist monastery
Red Fish, Blue Fish - Finished Library - start Market. Needs Buddhism and a garrison unit.
Bribracte - Market > Courthouse
Sugar Gems - Buddhist temple (13t) > whip into monastery? This city has excess happiness and really needs to grow, but we should get Buddhist buildings in here ASAP for the AP and Sankore bonuses.
Ski Resort - Finished Forge - start Courthouse (17t) .
Camel Dumdum - Forge (56t). This is another city with excess happiness that needs to grow.
Stone - comes out of revolt in 1 turn, and we get stone. Whip away excess pop into Granary and maybe Library.
Durnovaria - 3 more turns of revolt then start Forge.
Gergovia - 6 turns of revolt then Forge.
Worker Micro:
More details in Part 2, but:
Worker 10 - Is on a tile where the sign indicates we should build a farm, however this tile cannot be worked by any city. Reassign worker
Worker 3/7/11 +2 - Are also on a tile indicated to be farmed that cannot actually be worked by a city. I will split these up.
I will be traveling most of tomorrow, so the rest of PPP will probably not be posted until Sunday.
