SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

Elephantine, another poor city. Not bad to get CH.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0291.jpg



Will you attack the city on hill? I posted the save. I'd choose to wait for 1 turn. (What if we have 2 more musk? This is why I research gunpowder first)
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0292.jpg


His main force should be close to Thebes right now.
 
I'd attack now, we gain not only 1 turns earlier of Memphis, but also 1 turn of war progress toward Hammy.

Sacrifice the cata 1st (it will only bombard 4%, catas are less useful in rest of the war) and then trebs.
 
We still have some OF to dump in Moai here and there, it'd be better to do it before we forget as a team (when the save passes to someone else).

Don't think we can grab Memphis this turn, it'd be risky and perhaps not work at all.

Paris won't grow back anytime soon, we can probably do the trade mission anytime.
It's possible to micro Paris for 6t Taj but it loses a lot of commerce.

Gotta run, I'll check back later.
 
We have no problem of capturing Memphis this, (our CRIII mace even have 20% odd before siege) there's not much difference of removing the 34% defense bonus, we will lose some sieges anyway even attack next turn. The 1 turn progress of war worth a couple more trebs. Moreover, Memphis might whip unit and reinforcements might come from other cities.

I would save the GM now, what if Hammy go for Economic next.
 
It seems that we need to wait for Shaka/Jata's comments. This is the first time that I see Kossin and DW stand exactly the opposite. It's tricky now as the rating may lead the result in a totally different way. The five units are very tough on the hill with 34% cultual defence and 50% bonus against melees, though I believe some of them are not fully fortified. We have only 5 attacker, so any miss is crucial.

I may do some testing first.
 
testing file. The result favors DW's decision.

I find that 50% defence and 34% defence is totally different in the testing. With 50% defence, all sieges die and the city cannot be conquered.

Jata must be in the dream, so I'll wait 2 hours for Shaka's decision.
 

Attachments

After conquering Memphis, we can sign peace treaty with Ram and got some free techs.

Hammy can be attacked in 6~7 turns. 1 turn rest, 1 turn on board, 1 turn rally, 3 turns on the way. The war may start from T190 when the Taj is completed.

Our privateer can arrive at Bab in 3 turns, try their best to blockade and lure him to whip some caravels.

Is it possible to bribe somebody to close border with him?
Do we need to upgrade some Trebs to save the time?
We must get 8 tiles in that continent to capitulate Hammy. Right? Shall we bring a settler?
By conquering two cities(shrine city and capitol), it should be enough to talk about the deal.
 
Sacrifice cat, throw couple of trebs and that should be it.
I'd do that any time in my game.
Gain is much higher than risk here.

Peace treaty is fine.
I would upgrade couple of trebs. Cannons are both good counters and also are, well, cannons.
Faster war gets us more secure Lib and maybe even Economics.
I am not familiar with capitulation mechanics so I'll leave that blank.

Edit: Is drill catapult more likely to damage Longbow? I sometimes do that with some units to damage and kill top defender more easily.

And good luck!
 
The crucial part is to scratch the toughest defenders, if 1 cata + 3 trebs do not get the job done, we are extremely unlucky and I really doubt such a thing. we have 2 extra units for cleaning the unlucky battles. If sieges don't do the job, we can reevaluate it.

Please stop after taking Memphis, I'm undecided whether to sign peace treaty or just cease fire. Lean towards ceasing fire now since we are able to assemble a sizable stack for attacking Ram again while sending the major stack oversea.

The war with Hammy should be 2 stacks again, each stack has 2 cannons, don't need to upgrade trebs IMO. We aim to capture at least 5 cities from Hammy. 2 goals, the valuable cities and the Tao religion.
 
If we'll have cannons already, we can easily upgrade trebs in Babylon if unlucky so no need to do that now.
 
sossos said:
This is the first time that I see Kossin and DW stand exactly the opposite.
Click to expand...

:lol: it happens. Duckweed is usually right in those instances :king:

I'm OK to try scratching the top defender. I tend to wager a lot in war myself, however I also tend to get bad RNG odds so I've become more conservative with time.

Hmm, the only techs Ram has that we'd want is Music and Drama.
Drama can be gotten via others, but Music we'll have to squeeze out of either Ram or Hammy. However we can't get Music this turn because we lack Literature and Drama. [need to get started on Cathedrals one day or another]

Peace with Ram can only be achieved starting next turn as a result. This means 11 turns before we resume war on him... too long. Cease Fire for me.

Bibracte should start on Ironworks right away, the earlier it's done, the better. All forests should go to it.

With regards to the GM: we're in a tough spot, however I agree, let's delay.

Spoiler :
We need 4 (with overflow it might be 3?) turns to self-tech Guilds+Banking+Economics.
At his current tech speed, Hammy needs 5~6 turns to get Economics or Liberalism.

So, in 6 turns we see his next tech. This gives us 4~5 turns to react. If warring goes well against him, we might delay his teching sufficiently to decide on our own terms. Once Babylon and Akkad fall, he'll probably lose 50% of his research power.

If Hammy goes to either Economics or Liberalism and we're not ready for war, we burn the GM and beat him to it.


BTW, which cities of Hammy do you want to capture?
My top 4:
1. Babylon - Wonders and everything
2. Akkad - so many cottages
3. Dur-Kurigalzu - Confu shrine
4. Sippar/Borsippa - Taoism (but it'll have some cultural trouble with Saladin)
 
We lost a cata, a treb and a musk in this battle.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0293.jpg


I think cease-fire is better since all Ram's tech can be traded from Hammy.
 
YAY!!!

Huge boost to our empire.

:goodjob:
 
How about the war logistics below?

All we have now is: 11 Galleon + 12 mace + 4 sword+5 Treb + 10 cat +1 musk + 2 pike +1 LB+1Xbow+3 chariots

We can whip/train 4 cannons in 2 turns from Tours/Poi/Chi/Ary, and we can upgrade the 5 Trebs which can get us 1~2 turns earlier.

As Hammy has no horse, we can bring 11 mace+1musk+ 3sword+ 4~5 cannon+ 4~5 Treb/cat, 8 galleons.

The 2pike+1LB+1Xbow+1sword + 1mace+3 chariots with some cannons+cata can be used to sweep Ram's cities.

The first 2 target cities are Akkad and Bab, then confucious shrine and Taoism city. (Why do we want the Taoism city? Edit: I think it's for the culture)

In regards of culture, why don't you think culture is the bottle neck? Even if we get FT1, the 2 cities are far from lengendary IMO.
 
2 Cannons per stack is sufficient for Hammy. As shakabrade pointed out, we can upgrade a few Trebs in Babylon if things go bad.

We're not quite ready to pursue war with Ramesses, as long as we're in war he'll make more units. Cease-fire reduces his troop production and allows us to 100% focus on Hammy for a few turns. I think he doesn't have access to horses anymore so whatever he has is all he'll ever have... I'll look at the save in a few to think a bit more about this suggestion.. most of his remaining cities stink but the faster he's gone, the better.

Taoism: for the cathedrals in Paris and Orleans (+50% culture)
We currently have 3 religions, 4 is good but 5 would be great. There's still a lot of culture to be massed in ~50 turns until victory.
 
Well done, sossos.:goodjob:

I think we can slow down a bit for a while and think it over.

There are a few things I spotted in the last save. Could you update the save with city micro and worker micro done so that I can look at it again.

Tao city is for culture.
 
@kossin

If we upgrade the 5 Treb and attack Hammy with the 5 cannon+4catapult, we can attack Hammy 2~3 turns earlier. This is why I want to upgrade the Trebs before loading. Otherwise, we need to wait for new cannons from homeland.

1 galleon can be sent to Hammy later for replenishment in case there's attrition in the first two battles.

I hope we can bring Hammy into war in 7 turns and harass him in 3 turns.
 
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