SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

Hey Kossin, xie xie nin! More than I expected
If you had time to look at the galleon chain thingy that would be great!
in any case I will play in a few.

What's wrong with the galleon chain?

nothing i manage

Played till 1520. Save uploaded.
AL completed, Kremlin in 2t, ~400 failgold.

Did some mistake in spreading and galley chaining but now I know how it works
2 Tao mish can land in Orleans next turn. (built an extra galleon to save a turn, which is useless in fact as Orleans and Paris aren't ready for the Tao stuff.)


To be discussed:

- GP farming. Now I think we can work on the final plan.

- Civic switch, probably slavery/pacifism next turn. Starve GP farms now (should have done this earlier, they'll be doing nothing for 5 turns!) Back to Caste in 10 turns.

- Research path. We still have 3 GS. 1 can bulb physics for a fresh new GS

- War with SB. Not as quick as I would have liked. He send a couple of lucky catapults on our stack so I spent a turn healing. Took the city loosing our mace GG at 98+ and a cannon. Reinforcements can be shipped in a couple of turns. Beware of SB caravels.

- Settling of Humbaba city. He would'nt attack it, would he?

- Spreading plan

I'd like to play 5 more turns if everyone's ok. Starting to get a feel of this crazy game. Much entertainment

We can probably delete some useless units (lol many galleons)

I'll work on the GP plan and spreading plan later today, while Canada

Other side notes:

Got 2 failed sushi/mining spread so far. Didn't know it was possible.

Building culture on a RR mine with forge is better than assigning an Artist. Should we whip factory+plant in Orleans/Paris?

I popped a silver somewhere

Traded edu for 70 gold or something.

Stupid Qin is going for Democracy
We can spend EP to switch him out of Emancipation

Beware I'm working on the real save atm

Very tough exercise...
Culture is clearly limiting before T240.

We need 7 artists (6 for bombing, one for Jewels)

I have identified the next 5 GP farms:
Thebes (1200) T217
Dijon (1400) T218
Orleans (1600) T223
Marseilles (1800) T226
Amiens (2000) T228.

You can check the (messy) attachment, other cities than indicated above are not valid.

I think Orleans can easily create one more GP by T240 (3400). Farming over the 2 FP cottage can be required.

We could aim at producing 6 more GP in between (2200, 2400, 2600, 2800, 3000, 3200)

Candidate cities need:
- a high pop
- good food (green farm + special)

Candidates identified:
- Lyons (size 15), need to farm on cottages.
*- Rheims (size 14), 1 fish and can take the pig from Marseilles.
*- Chartres (size 16), 2 fish
*- Poitiers (size 15), 1 fish, need more farm
- Durnovaria (size 16) corn, loss of mature cottages.
*- Tolosa (size 19) 2 food special. Production waste during ~20t. (10 WS x10hammers x20t = 2000 beakers)
*- Vienne (size 17), 1 corn. Production waste
- Visigoth (size 16), 1 corn. Lack of green
*- Babylon (size 16), 2 food special. Requires galleon chain.
- Paris (size 20), will work artists anyways.

That's 10 cities for 6. Make you pick My selection (*)

Assuming we get 3400 in Orleans T240, and in order to get 3200 on T239, a city needs to assign 20 artists (19 pop) for 14 turns in GA (t220>t233) then 6 turns out of golden age (t234>t239)
------- 19*3*(14*3+6*2)=3240
Such a city needs to be size 22/23 in 6 turns. Has to be Tolosa I am afraid.

Of course we can abort the GA generation anytime we have the 8 required artists.

Another note. If Tao fails to spread in Orleans or Paris, we'll need to build broadcast towers.

BTW, what do we attack Humbaba with?

Sorry I wasted 1-2 turns galleon chaining the reinforcements.

Notice SB stack crushed itself on Hammy only city.

SB may build frigates in 2 turns...

214-215
Poverty point. cata+treb+5cannons+1musket+6maces march on Chakoia (gather 1NW of Chakoia then on the cow tile, joined by the chariot medic)

Reinforcements
embark 2 cannons and 1 musket 1N2W of Basra
embark 6 musket 1N3W of Basra
Gather 3 galleons and 1 frigate 1NW of fish tile

Next turn land all units 1SW of Nubian. Bombard with 2 frigates

216
Bombard Chakoia and Nubian

217
Take Chakoia and Nubian if acceptable odds.

218-222
March Both stacks toward Mound city

223-224
Take Mound city

225-228
March towards Snaketown

229-230
Take Snaketowm

231-233
Move a stack of 12 units (galleon chain) towards Spiro (choko Canyon is on a hill)

234
take Spiro

236-237
Take Messa Verde.

Let's hope SBalls capitulates ealier than that...

We have the option to upgrade a few dudes to Infantry at some point if necessary (need rifling ofc)

on progress!

I think there are many things to discuss now, don't plan on playing too soon

In this case I pass the game to someone else Time for some holidays on the beach baby

Let me update the last save then. (done)

But I am not done with planning

T214 already, .



I agree with kossin. We should stop and think and also wait for others. It is Christmas time and Western hemisphere is usually with family then. 5T is a lot at this stage when we don't have clear plans.

23 turns of war with SB seems a bit slow. There are probably some ways to utilize galleons in a better way.

Once we plan our GP generation, rest of the game should be hitting the end turn.

Humbaba has many ways to die. I still lean to guided missiles. They all can be produced 2 turns before killing Humbaba and there is no tedious part of transporting troops on galleons. I didn't test how bunkers affect guided missiles. Maybe Marines + fighters are better.

Beach? You lucky! I'm swarmed by snow over here.

Ok, I'll take the next set then.

I am almost done with the GP plan

@Kossin

Go go go. It's the week of Sounda Krossin.

Just a reminder to watch closely on our dominated land and culture info in F1 screen. Any culture border expansion may lead to an unexpected dom victory.

Here you go.

The definitive GP plan by Jata:

Orleans will produce 5800 GPP between T214 and T240

T221 - Orleans 1200 GPP - for Golden age. Chance of scientist = 0%
T223 - Dijon 1400
T224 - Thebes 1600
T228 - Orleans 1800
T229 - Amiens 2000
T230 - Marseilles 2200
T233 - Babylon 2400
T237 - Paris 2600 (*)
T240 - Orleans 2800
T241 - Tolosa 3000 (**)

(*) we need to build Broadway in Paris to avoid assigning artists too soon and kill Amiens+Marseilles+Babylon+Orleans chances of breeding a GA.
Same culture result in Paris on T240.

(**) Tolosa is a backup in case things go wrong with our luck.

(***) Broadcast towers conflict with the GPP generation.

Culture victory condition obtained between T237 and T243 depending on our luck with G artists.

Check it out!

We can always build Eiffel Tower somewhere to grant Broadcast Towers to Orleans+Paris.

The high variability of finish date means it's very difficult to decide when to complete U.N. but I guess we have little choice.

EDIT: we can't run more than 2 artists per city in Slavery and we need a Theatre to do so. (see Orleans)

kossin said:

We can always build Eiffel Tower somewhere to grant Broadcast Towers to Orleans+Paris.
Yes great idea, might cut 1/2 turns on cultural condition.
I am inclined to beeline Radio for that.
BTW, isn't it strange that we can get a "free bc in every city" when the tech to build bc (mass media) has not been discovered yet?


The high variability of finish date means it's very difficult to decide when to complete U.N. but I guess we have little choice.
Yes and it also means we cannot rely on the last artist bomb, unless 100% pure, which does not exists... One LC will have to go legendary without bombing, bye bye Tolosa backup idea.
How many turns are there between UN construction and UN diplo vic?

EDIT: we can't run more than 2 artists per city in Slavery and we need a Theatre to do so. (see Orleans)
If you look carefully, you'll see some "artists" are priests, merchants in disguise Don't let any scientist slip in though

Click to expand...

You sure you don't let me play 5 more turns? 1 more turn?

Sure, however you have to wait a day or so, there is plenty left to discuss yet. For instance WM vs mines.

it's your set Kossin

WM vs. Mine.

Paris and Orleans:
Trade-off:
- Mine > possibly 1 turn ealier for a couple of culture buildings = 1.0 x base culture (~150CP)
- WM > possibly 1 extra artist assigned for ~15 turns ~ 500CP.
Windmill wins! Please cancel my stupid mines

For Other cities,
> Mine+RR: +2hammers=+4 beakers
> Windmill: +1 food +2 commerce (after electricity). 1 food is 1/2 specialist=3 beakers
Windmill wins again!

BUT

Health is an issue The +1 food is cancelled when health cap is reached, which will come quick after factories and plants.
Paris is already over the health cap by the way.

SO

- Mines in big cities that will reach their health cap soon ( this includes Paris and Orleans or?)
- Windmill in small cities


Edit: I would be interested in knowing the exact trade-off between Free market and Environmentalism

There are 10 turns between UN construction and win. UN built - 5T - vote for general secretary - 5T - as general secretary choose to vote for diplomatic victory.

Free Market is THE civic for corps. Corporation payment fee you can see is base number -25%. With Environmentalism, it is base number +25%. So it is much more than 50% more expensive to pay for corps in environmentalism than in FM. I believe we should have 20 windmills per city to make it worth our while. And that is impossible. Health bonus doesn't mean much since time we need to grow to max sizes is very distant (beyond our victory time) and it us better to reap benefits now.

Note that every extra resource connected makes FM even more attractive and there are still some.

BTW, I think we'd sink ti deficit with environmentalism + wouldn't have money to spread more.