AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

HotFusion · Mar 20, 2013

Food waste gets severe as the game goes on. It can easily account for over 70% of your food income.

The reason I gravitated to AND is because it was possible to make a small empire with just a few super cities and still be competitive. The waste mechanic kills that and forces you back into ICS micromanagement. The current implementation is the worst of both worlds, in that it includes the food waste mechanic from C2C, but doesn't include the parts that make it optional.

I'm really surprised to see this bug is still here. I stopped playing about a year ago, and back then, afforess was talking like the bug was going to be fixed the next day.

IPEX-731BA5DD06 · Mar 20, 2013

Food wastage is easily managed. Its not a bug, it just good management of your cities. If you have wasted food, your producing too much for your population size.

I manage it by employing more specialists, or working hammer intense tiles, and not have every tile around my city converted into a farm. There will always be wastage of up to 5 :food:

, due to the tiles worked, but I've never had a situation of over 10 :food:

being wasted, without doing an adjustment.

The AI, will maximise food, as that's how its programmed to run. Food wastage is REALITY. You over produce, you end up sending it to landfill.

I play Gigantic size maps, and some micro management in my cities is easily manageable. I accept that I can't have 100% efficiency, but wastage of under 10% is acceptable, but I prefer to aim for under 5 in total.

I think its a great addition to the game, add depth and reality to it. Its not a race to build the 1st Megaopolis. I'm a huge specialist economy fan, and more farms, workshops the better. Wastage just adds more depth.

I can see a point for it being added as an OPTION. Never removed though.

HotFusion · Mar 20, 2013

No, it's a bug. Afforess himself said it was an accidental backport from C2C and he intended to remove with the next update.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11319804#post11319804

Don't worry it was an error that I missed in play testing. Wasted food will not make it into the next release...

If some people like it, that's fine, but even C2C include xml controls so that it can be tweaked or turned off.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

To tell the truth, I've never paid attention to wasted food. I have to look deeper into this matter as I've really never cared about it, thank you for pointing it out.

HotFusion · Mar 20, 2013

Glad to hear it! I came back to AND because I heard that you fixed the dreaded AI pseudo-commando bug, which is what made me quit AND last year. I'm happy that people are still working on this mod.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

HotFusion said:
Glad to hear it! I came back to AND because I heard that you fixed the dreaded AI pseudo-commando bug, which is what made me quit AND last year. I'm happy that people are still working on this mod.

Actually I'm not 100% sure this bug is fixed; it's been an attempt and so far I haven't encoutered this problem anymore, but more testing is required as I think that it was a multiple-source bug and it could have been solved only partially.
I hope you will enjoy the new AND2.

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

IMHO food waste mechanic (like inflation) is just a (bad) way to rebalance the game whose balance has been broken by too many additions. It's management is problematic because it kills the transparency : that farm plot you might want to work (or building you might want to build) will _not_ give you those +X :food:

but actually less, giving you micromanagement headaches. If you haven't noticed there's already a mechanic for food waste and slowing down city growth : unhealthiness.

HotFusion · Mar 20, 2013

BlueTemplar said:
IMHO food waste mechanic (like inflation) is just a (bad) way to rebalance the game whose balance has been broken by too many additions. It's management is problematic because it kills the transparency : that farm plot you might want to work (or building you might want to build) will _not_ give you those +X but actually less, giving you micromanagement headaches. If you haven't noticed there's already a mechanic for food waste and slowing down city growth : unhealthiness.

This is EXACTLY my thoughts as well. The building bloat in C2C leads to runaway effects. Food wastage was a band-aid fix to a problem that was endemic to the design itself. Like you, I hated the opacity.

Really, I think that AND is overloaded too, but it manages to still just barely work while being lots of fun.

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

Is it me, or trade valuation is a bit off? I can get 534 :science:

worth for a single worker... or get those 534 :science:

for 167

...

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

I changed from Monarchy to Republic, but my Capital is STILL immune to unhappiness!

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

BlueTemplar said:
I changed from Monarchy to Republic, but my Capital is STILL immune to unhappiness!

Thank you, of course it shouldn't happen. I'll investigate because I don't remember happening to me before to tell the truth.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

45°38'N-13°47'E;12300890 said:
Thank you, of course it shouldn't happen. I'll investigate because I don't remember happening to me before to tell the truth.

I've done some tests and it doesn't happen in any game of mine. Have you modified the mod somehow?

JosEPh_II · Mar 20, 2013

HotFusion said:
This is EXACTLY my thoughts as well. The building bloat in C2C leads to runaway effects. Food wastage was a band-aid fix to a problem that was endemic to the design itself. Like you, I hated the opacity.

Really, I think that AND is overloaded too, but it manages to still just barely work while being lots of fun.

Thanks sort of? :eek:

Not sure if this is an endorsement or a whack job though?

@Blue Templar,
What version are you playing? I can't get 534 :science:

for 167

! Now that's what the AI will offer to me though, for my tech. So just the opposite of what you are posting. In fact the AI seems to want triple the fair amount either way, tech for gold or gold for tech. And it's definitely in the AI's favor, Unless it's an old old tech that almost everyone has but you.

JosEPh

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

I've used the latest SVN, the civic change was probably made during rev620 or rev621, here are the autosaves, one before, one after the change.

I guess the AI just likes me a lot (but still not enough to trade techs to :science:

parity, even though 78 :food:

/

for a worker are a lot easier to get than 534 :science:

). You can try that in my saves.

JosEPh_II · Mar 20, 2013

Did not see where 45* had posted any Civic changes. :hmm:

Will have to go back and look at the SVN then.

JosEPh

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

No, my civic change from Monarchy to Republic.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

JosEPh_II said:
Did not see where 45* had posted any Civic changes. Will have to go back and look at the SVN then.

JosEPh

You haven't seen it because I haven't changed anything about civics

One more time I suppose it's something related to recalculations while using MaxComp saves.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

BlueTemplar said:
I've used the latest SVN, the civic change was probably made during rev620 or rev621, here are the autosaves, one before, one after the change.

I guess the AI just likes me a lot (but still not enough to trade techs to parity, even though 78 / for a worker are a lot easier to get than 534 ). You can try that in my saves.

I've tried your saves and I confirm the problem. But I've also tried a new game and I've seen it doesn't occur, so my guess is that it's something related to some information that gets lost while switching from one revision to another. I'll have to update MaxComp code sooner or later, my guess is that the problem lies there.

BlueTemplar · Mar 20, 2013

I think I've found three (!) other bugs related to that. (It's when "recalculating modifiers", right?)
1.) If you have any cities producing wealth when recalculating, that gold is subtracted from your taxes (I ended up with negative tax income!)
2.) It removes the bonus :hammers:

from the Apostolic Palace religion buildings. Even changing religions doesn't give them back.
3.)Plus, I also had ed up election dates : turns until next vote counted down to 0, but still no vote, then votes until next elections counted down to 0 too, while turns until next vote were stuck on 0, then new elections took place. Though maybe that's due to me meeting only one empire so far.

P.S.: Show only buildings that provide culture hides a lot of culture-providing buildings like School of Scribes...

Jacks · Mar 21, 2013

I keep getting a CTD on this save here...I have no clue what the issue is...any help would be appreciated.

AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

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