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SGOTM 17 - Unusual Suspects

OK - Done with no issues. Save has been uploaded. We finished Aesthetics a turn early, so I stopped at t79 (all moves are complete, but we have not committed to the next tech). Surprisingly little happened.

Here is the save.

We are completely walled off by mountains to the west, and there is a surprisingly large barb cultural territory to the NW across the water (Humbaba III?).

Mansa researched Theology and founded Christianity, then used a GS to bulb Philo and found Taoism. He must be researching Aesthetics, since he will only give us 50 gold for it (not Monotheism).

BUFFY log:

Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 100 AD to 350 AD:

Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Meditation!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Polytheism!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 119, 100 AD: You have trained a Settler in Aachen. Work has now begun on a Galley.

Turn 122, 175 AD: Silver City has been founded.

Turn 125, 250 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Supercity. Work has now begun on a Library.

Turn 126, 275 AD: Christianity has been founded in Djenne!
Turn 126, 275 AD: Al-Kindi (Great Scientist) has been born in Timbuktu (Mansa Musa)!

Turn 127, 300 AD: Phantastic has grown to size 6.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Phantastic can hurry Rathaus for 3⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 127, 300 AD: Taoism has been founded in Kumbi Saleh!
Turn 127, 300 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Pacifism!
Turn 127, 300 AD: James Clerk Maxwell (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 128, 325 AD: Mansa Musa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Mansa Musa will trade Philosophy
Turn 128, 325 AD: Aachen will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 325 AD: Pork Central will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 128, 325 AD: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 128, 325 AD: Sojourner Truth (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 129, 350 AD: Aachen has grown to size 6.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Pork Central has grown to size 6.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Supercity will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Iron City will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 129, 350 AD: Silver City will grow to size 2 on the next turn.


Autolog:


Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 69/450 (100 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:26:21]
Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Alphabet
Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Currency
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Meditation
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Polytheism
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Code of Laws
Research begun: Civil Service (85 Turns)
Research begun: Aesthetics (29 Turns)
0% Research: 5 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 15 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Aachen
The whip was applied in Pork Central
Aachen finishes: Settler
Phantastic finishes: Worker
Pork Central finishes: Worker

Turn 70/450 (125 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:29:46]
Phantastic begins: Worker (4 turns)
Pork Central begins: Chariot (30 turns)
0% Research: 5 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 22 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Village was built near Phantastic
Pork Central finishes: Chariot

Turn 71/450 (150 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:34:52]
Pork Central begins: Rathaus (120 turns)
A Mine was built near Supercity
0% Research: 5 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 17 per turn, 34 in the bank

After End Turn:
Pork Central grows to size 3

Turn 72/450 (175 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:38:01]
Prague founded
Silver City begins: Monument (30 turns)
0% Research: 5 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 17 per turn, 51 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen grows to size 5
Supercity grows to size 2

Turn 73/450 (200 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:41:14]
A Cottage was built near Pork Central
0% Research: 5 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 20 per turn, 68 in the bank

After End Turn:
Phantastic finishes: Worker
Pork Central grows to size 4

Turn 74/450 (225 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:45:12]
Phantastic begins: Rathaus (11 turns)
0% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 22 per turn, 88 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Iron City
Iron City grows to size 2
Iron City finishes: Granary

Turn 75/450 (250 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:50:38]
Iron City begins: Library (13 turns)
A Quarry was built near Pork Central
100% Research: 82 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -35 per turn, 110 in the bank

After End Turn:
Pork Central grows to size 5
Supercity finishes: Granary
Silver City grows to size 2

Turn 76/450 (275 AD) [01-Apr-2013 23:57:44]
A Pasture was built near Supercity
100% Research: 84 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -36 per turn, 75 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Silver City
Phantastic grows to size 6
Silver City finishes: Monument

Other Player Actions:
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 77/450 (300 AD) [02-Apr-2013 00:03:52]
Silver City begins: Granary (60 turns)
A Cottage was built near Pork Central
A Cottage was built near Phantastic
100% Research: 80 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -36 per turn, 39 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Taoism founded in a distant land
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Organized Religion' to 'Pacifism'

Turn 78/450 (325 AD) [02-Apr-2013 00:10:14]
100% Research: 80 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -36 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Aesthetics
Aachen grows to size 6
Pork Central grows to size 6

Turn 79/450 (350 AD) [02-Apr-2013 00:15:33]
Research begun: Literature (7 Turns)
Aachen begins: Settler (15 turns)


Pictures will follow in a bit.
 
That was fast :eek:

edit: no Monotheism trade possibility is a bit sad, but the good thing is that Mansa has snaffled half the religions, so it means to no distant AI wins Culture before we can get to them.
 
neilmeister said:
That was fast :eek:
Click to expand...

We'd gone over this enough. :) I got the greens and was ready to roll. :rockon:

A visual summary:

The SW:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-024_zpseabe1bb2.jpg


The NW:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-025_zps98da89c1.jpg


Mansa's offer for Aesthetics:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-026_zps857a64ce.jpg


Technology status:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-027_zpsb15683ba.jpg


Cities/wonders:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-028_zps7f976ebc.jpg


Demographics:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-029_zpsaae78706.jpg
 
neilmeister said:
edit: no Monotheism trade possibility is a bit sad, but the good thing is that Mansa has snaffled half the religions, so it means to no distant AI wins Culture before we can get to them.
Click to expand...

Given that he's not going to give us much for it, I am inclined to just not trade it to him to give us a turn or two on the Parthenon.

Edit: Deckhand you are really UP! this time. :)
 
Trystero said:
Given that he's not going to give us much for it, I am inclined to just not trade it to him to give us a turn or two on the Parthenon.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah!

Also noticed that because of the minor food/hammer differences between the test & reals saves that Phantastic got a 2 pop whip with 5 overflow instead of 3 pop whip. This means that we don't have the large overflow into it, but we can work the extra phants the whole time which more than makes up for it. :)
 
Sorry, I didn't notice that. I will update the spreadsheet, since there was some differences on when the workers near Pork Central finished the cottage and moved to chop the bananas, but I think that was just a transposition error, since they seem to be back on the micro plan now.
 
Don't be sorry, I think it actually works out about the same hammerwise, but 20g ahead.
 
Nice. A couple of thoughts:

1. Given that Mansa is researching Aes, and maybe Lit, I'm somewhat tempted to switch to the Optics beeline now. However he doesn't have any better production than we do ATM, so the the GLib still seems doable.

2. There is really little production available in the land accessible to us. kcd has made conquest quite challenging.
 
Doing Aesthetics alone is a waste, the real prize is the GLib/NE combo. It is a shame that Mansa seems to be teching the same line as us though, but we have started, and we need to see it through. I know it might seem fanciful, but Parthenon/GLib/NE/Mids would make our game, we could tech our brains out whilst generating GP's.

That barb city to the NW looks very suspicious indeed, it might be there to block Mansa in. It seems the only way out is via the ocean, I'm not sure about us not putting the Copper city right hard against the south coast, a culture bridge would probably beat Optics by many turns.
No escape until Optics just seems cruel to me at Immortal, there must be another way.
 
neilmeister said:
Doing Aesthetics alone is a waste, the real prize is the GLib/NE combo. It is a shame that Mansa seems to be teching the same line as us though, but we have started, and we need to see it through. I know it might seem fanciful, but Parthenon/GLib/NE/Mids would make our game, we could tech our brains out whilst generating GP's.
Click to expand...

If we want the Mids we should settle the stone island soon.

That barb city to the NW looks very suspicious indeed, it might be there to block Mansa in. It seems the only way out is via the ocean, I'm not sure about us not putting the Copper city right hard against the south coast, a culture bridge would probably beat Optics by many turns.
No escape until Optics just seems cruel to me at Immortal, there must be another way.
Click to expand...

We could settle the other city (in yellow) on the copper peninsula first:

Spoiler :
SGOTM17-030_zps5fca9831.jpg


It will get the furs sooner, and can use the pigs after the first border pop.
 
ChrisShaffer said:
If we settle the yellow city, would we chop the forest for a monument?
Click to expand...

I would think so. With a border pop the city would have 3 (eventually 4) food tiles. It would be a nice place to run specialists.
 
Trystero said:
If we want the Mids we should settle the stone island soon.

We could settle the other city (in yellow) on the copper peninsula first:
Click to expand...

Yes, settler for Stone in Pork Central when it grows back to 6 after Rathaus whip?

Happy with yellow first though it might be best to whip out a monument, the forest is the only hammers that spot has. Depends on how long it takes to grow to 2.
Once we have the first border pop, we will be able to see if there is a potential bridge.

edit: scratch that, its going to take 10 turns to grow. Chop the forest would be best.
 
I forgot the furs was forested, and that is a really good option, as we are probably not going to work the tile for a long time anyway.
 
Another thought I had was that since we are building Rathauses ayway, should we build a spy to try tech stealing from Mansa? Grabbing Philo so we can run Caste/Pacifism is pretty appealing.
 
He currently has 498 EP against our 276. The minimum we need to tech steal is 306 (not for Philo, obviously). It might be doable if we run the slider. The rathauses will help (a little) as well.
 
306 is for Mono, and that is before bonuses. 5 turns stationary will reduce the price to 153.

I like that! But where & when to build the spy. Aachen after galley?

edit: or were you already taking that into account?
 
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