SGOTM 17 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
BTW, I made the trade with Sury. Bananas for 6 gpt.
Relations:
Spoiler :
Edit: Should I trade copper for sugar and 2 gpt? I'd take that deal.
Sounds fine. There's a chance he's building the Colossus and we'll only help him... but it's a bad wonder on this map, so whatever.
Before you make the trade, look to see if Sury or Tokugawa have Sugar/Spices, or if they're importing Sugar/Spices from Qin. Trade for the scarcer resource.
Good deal on the Banana, BTW.
EDIT: looks like a love-fest on their continent. It'd be good to reach Pleased with Qin, so that if we DOW Sury first, we can beg some gold from Qin just before. He bribes easily, IIRC.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Stopping T102 because of this:
Map is quite interesting, save is uploaded. Enjoy.
Log:
Spoiler :
Map is quite interesting, save is uploaded. Enjoy.
Log:
Spoiler :
CS trade would be helpful. There are a good number of Rice tiles in Mansa's territory, and spread irrigation will help with whipping.
The save looks great (although minor point: I don't think the road 1E of the Marble is any quicker than the Railroad). It seems the HG Great Engineer rushed the Parthenon.
I'm hopeful that Mansa will switch out of Vassalage and into Civil Service. That would stop him whipping units for a further 5 turns... perfect timing for us.
Looks like access to the west will be via Mansa's coast. There is a possible canal city:
P.S. Guess where shakabrade took over.
The save looks great (although minor point: I don't think the road 1E of the Marble is any quicker than the Railroad). It seems the HG Great Engineer rushed the Parthenon.
I'm hopeful that Mansa will switch out of Vassalage and into Civil Service. That would stop him whipping units for a further 5 turns... perfect timing for us.
Looks like access to the west will be via Mansa's coast. There is a possible canal city:
Spoiler :
P.S. Guess where shakabrade took over.
Hmm, currency is not monopoly and they don't like to trade it. Qin will trade HBR + gold now for compass.
Mansa has only one copper so, there won't be many maces as he can't whip them just yet. Pity we are not in OR, to switch he just before the war, so he can't whip for 5 extra turns.
Btw, 100culture at the coast over the silver (or a great artist bomb nearby) would have rendered astronomy not necessary.
Mansa has only one copper so, there won't be many maces as he can't whip them just yet. Pity we are not in OR, to switch he just before the war, so he can't whip for 5 extra turns.
Btw, 100culture at the coast over the silver (or a great artist bomb nearby) would have rendered astronomy not necessary.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Maybe we could trade HBR 1st and then get both CS and Theology from Mansa, not sure whether they are enough.
That silver site is very likely a canal site in need. A settler and spy should be prepared once we have the necessary troops for Mansa done.
Note on promotions
1. At least 1 medicI unit in each stack recovering.
2. I don't give promotion to battle odd than ~95% as I consider it safe.
Indeed, but anyone who can make such a decision before seeing the map is beyond genius, my feeling of how Kaku could realize the DOW from Hatty in SGOTM15.
That silver site is very likely a canal site in need. A settler and spy should be prepared once we have the necessary troops for Mansa done.
Note on promotions
1. At least 1 medicI unit in each stack recovering.
2. I don't give promotion to battle odd than ~95% as I consider it safe.
Indeed, but anyone who can make such a decision before seeing the map is beyond genius, my feeling of how Kaku could realize the DOW from Hatty in SGOTM15.
@Duckweed
Actually settling on the stone takes only 10 culture - just noticed the clams are coastal not ocean. Due to the coastal tile I suppose the mapmaker intended settling on the stone w/ the capital in place (or at least looks a like viable strategy, far from optimal).
I proposed the 100culture deal on the coast but that was only to circumvent the peaks (which would be a failure as the array is too wide)
The silver tile is fresh water - i.e. the west must be a lake but that does *not* prevent it from being canal alike. (edited)
Actually settling on the stone takes only 10 culture - just noticed the clams are coastal not ocean. Due to the coastal tile I suppose the mapmaker intended settling on the stone w/ the capital in place (or at least looks a like viable strategy, far from optimal).
I proposed the 100culture deal on the coast but that was only to circumvent the peaks (which would be a failure as the array is too wide)
The silver tile is fresh water - i.e. the west must be a lake but that does *not* prevent it from being canal alike. (edited)
I had thought about settling on the stone earlier to grant access to the south however the lack of seafood meant it wasn't worth it.
Similar with settling on the silver for SP, waiting for 100
is just too long to be worth it imo.
Regarding the 'canal city', it's still too early to settle there. Moreover the Fresh Water as bestsss pointed out means we likely can't do that much with it just now. I'd wait for Music to settle there (odds are a fort will be useful if it's a 1-tile lake).
The road 1E of the marble allows to save 1gpt on upkeep and might possibly be used later for troops from MM.
@shaka
Very well played!!
@game
MM appears to be building 2 settlers (Djenne, Kumbi Saleh) based on espionage screen. (~90H invested) That doesn't change much about our plans but it means Kumbi Saleh might be less defended and opens up a possible fork attack.
Nobody but MM has Ivory... which means War Elephants will be very good. Especially vs. QSH who has CKNs.
We can trade marble+cow to QSH for his resources, maybe when he gets a bit more gpt. Marble might make him more busy on wonders while we gather an army.
Sury is probably a better target to invade first given that he has multiple fronts we can assault... but we're a bit early for that right now!
Regarding trades, fully agree for Compass <-> HBR+50 gold.
MM will not trade (CS+Theo for Eng+Aes+Hbr) or (Theo for Aes+Hbr) so we're stuck to getting either of the techs using Eng.
For reference, you can link directly to the progress graph by "copying image URL" and then inserting it as an image in the forum.
Similar with settling on the silver for SP, waiting for 100
is just too long to be worth it imo.Regarding the 'canal city', it's still too early to settle there. Moreover the Fresh Water as bestsss pointed out means we likely can't do that much with it just now. I'd wait for Music to settle there (odds are a fort will be useful if it's a 1-tile lake).
The road 1E of the marble allows to save 1gpt on upkeep and might possibly be used later for troops from MM.
@shaka
Very well played!!
@game
MM appears to be building 2 settlers (Djenne, Kumbi Saleh) based on espionage screen. (~90H invested) That doesn't change much about our plans but it means Kumbi Saleh might be less defended and opens up a possible fork attack.
Nobody but MM has Ivory... which means War Elephants will be very good. Especially vs. QSH who has CKNs.
We can trade marble+cow to QSH for his
resources, maybe when he gets a bit more gpt. Marble might make him more busy on wonders while we gather an army.Sury is probably a better target to invade first given that he has multiple fronts we can assault... but we're a bit early for that right now!
Regarding trades, fully agree for Compass <-> HBR+50 gold.
MM will not trade (CS+Theo for Eng+Aes+Hbr) or (Theo for Aes+Hbr) so we're stuck to getting either of the techs using Eng.
For reference, you can link directly to the progress graph by "copying image URL" and then inserting it as an image in the forum.
Spoiler :
UnforcedError
Settler
Hello guys,
I'm sorry I've been absent for so long and I fully understand if you don't want me to be part of the team anymore. RL hit me really hard though and I had more work than sleep or anything else in the last months. Now things start to look better again. If you think it's unfair that I should rejoin the team (which I sort of do) I'd still like to stay as a dedicated lurker or something. I will need a few days to read through the thread and get up-to-date with the game.
I'm sorry I've been absent for so long and I fully understand if you don't want me to be part of the team anymore. RL hit me really hard though and I had more work than sleep or anything else in the last months. Now things start to look better again. If you think it's unfair that I should rejoin the team (which I sort of do) I'd still like to stay as a dedicated lurker or something. I will need a few days to read through the thread and get up-to-date with the game.
UnforcedError
Settler
Just finished checking the game. Well played so far, you've done a lot with this terrible land 
Also, bulbing Astro was a really nice touch, it's going to help us a lot. I have tons of stupid questions but I suppose most of them have already been discussed in the thread so I'll wait on them until I finish reading. We're planning to go for Sury, right?
Also, bulbing Astro was a really nice touch, it's going to help us a lot. I have tons of stupid questions but I suppose most of them have already been discussed in the thread so I'll wait on them until I finish reading. We're planning to go for Sury, right?I don't see Music in a reasonable time, so waiting Music would be desperate.
For such a heavily engineered map, things that innormal are likely what map makers intended. Just like the port in SGOTM15 which was helpful, this silver site looks more important to me, knowing the map beyond the mountains is critical.
I tend to think that coastal seafood is not what kcd-swede intended (just a guess), otherwise no reason to make all other water tiles to be ocean tiles.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12408271&postcount=944
or maybe that was his intention since he have not given me a reply.
For such a heavily engineered map, things that innormal are likely what map makers intended. Just like the port in SGOTM15 which was helpful, this silver site looks more important to me, knowing the map beyond the mountains is critical.
I tend to think that coastal seafood is not what kcd-swede intended (just a guess), otherwise no reason to make all other water tiles to be ocean tiles.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12408271&postcount=944
or maybe that was his intention since he have not given me a reply.
Just finished checking the game. Well played so far, you've done a lot with this terrible land
Right now the SOD is in the front of Mansa's gate.
I don't see a reason to rush there before we've started with the 3 AIs to the south, we could get ganged up on as well there. We will see in some turns after the warring is started in any case!
@UE
The Sury comment from my post was referring to the "inter-continental" invasion. We're going for MM first as that meant we didn't have to build boats which lets us capture cities faster.
UnforcedError
Settler
Right now the SOD is in the front of Mansa's gate.
I noticed that
He wouldn't have been my first choice though, as IMO he's probably one of the more useful and less dangerous AIs to keep alive for a while. But as I said I still have tons of reading to do, so I'm still in the process of discovering the whens and whys
UnforcedError
Settler
Right. I can see now that we're really lacking coastal production so those hammers better go into land units for now.
There's no need to guess at length regarding the canal city. Let's see what our scouting Archer and attack versus Mansa reveals. We don't even know where Tokugawa lives, for example.
Speculation, because it's fun.
Sury is quite likely to generate a Great Prophet, thanks to the Temple of Artemis. If he shrines the Hindu holy city soon, he would easily be my preferred second target.
Also, it'd be good to level up a bit versus non-Protective AI before taking on Qin and Tokugawa. Drill IV Xbows will be a big help against suicide Catapults and Cho-Ko-Nus. And Samurai, for that matter.
Speculation, because it's fun.
Spoiler :
Sury is quite likely to generate a Great Prophet, thanks to the Temple of Artemis. If he shrines the Hindu holy city soon, he would easily be my preferred second target.
Also, it'd be good to level up a bit versus non-Protective AI before taking on Qin and Tokugawa. Drill IV Xbows will be a big help against suicide Catapults and Cho-Ko-Nus. And Samurai, for that matter.
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