mabraham
Deity
We would have to keep Nanjing until the first teleport succeeds, but then gifting it to Mansa is no problem for the second teleport, because the second teleport will use Warwick as both anchor and destination.
SGOTM 17 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
We would have to keep Nanjing until the first teleport succeeds, but then gifting it to Mansa is no problem for the second teleport, because the second teleport will use Warwick as both anchor and destination.
mabraham
Deity
Seems reasonable.
Also, I worked out how to get a stack back from Churchill. We can send a moderate excess of units, which should help conquering faster. Raze every English city but Warwick. Get cease fire with Mansa, open borders from shared war with Toku, position all units in Warwick, wait for Mansa's culture to pop, then DOW Mansa again to teleport the main stack back to neutral territory near Japan. Earlier, we've left a force that has taken Osaka (rather than the other splinter forces I have been suggesting), so those neutral tiles certainly exist. Osaka would be the teleport anchor, so we'd be sure to move in the right direction, so long as Warwick has popped its borders for Mansa. Maybe even if Warwick has not popped its borders (but needs testing). Maybe organize a Buddhist monastery and missionary for Warwick? Obviously, maroon a couple of units to clear Warwick up after we have teleported back east.
Meanwhile, our reinforcements and Nanjing units have dealt with Toku's stack, even if it re-targets off Xian to Nanjing (or something) after our DOW, and we now have two strong fronts against Japan for the very endgame.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,920
Great work mabraham! Especially, the teleport plan to get most of our Churchill SoD back to finish off Tokugawa.
I suggest we play aggressively for the earliest possible win. Thus DoW Peter as early as possible provided that will eliminate him sooner.
Sun Tzu Wu
I suggest we play aggressively for the earliest possible win. Thus DoW Peter as early as possible provided that will eliminate him sooner.
Sun Tzu Wu
Ya, if Mansa and Toku are still at war next turn, we can teleport, give Nanjing to Mansa, DoW Mansa, and re-open borders with Toku.
Toku should take Nanjing with his Stack of doom 3 turns later.
He has a closer city 3 tiles away from Nanjing, but those 2 longbows are tied to the city I'd say, and won't move.
I favor the Nanjing gift next turn once the teleport succeeeds. I wouldn't gift Mansa any units either. He'll just lose them without inflicting hardly any damage.
I also worry a bit about Tokugawa's stack. It isn't just 13 horse archers. It is 6 catapults and 6 longbows too. Sure, with a bunch of treb attacks it ain't no big deal, but killing 25 units takes 25 attackers and I'm not sure we'll have that many.
You seem to have everything in hand. Maybe switch to a merchant specialist in Timbuktu for +6gpt. Good luck with the teleporting!
mabraham
Deity
Ya, if Mansa and Toku are still at war next turn, we can teleport, give Nanjing to Mansa, DoW Mansa, and re-open borders with Toku.
Toku should take Nanjing with his Stack of doom 3 turns later.
He has a closer city 3 tiles away from Nanjing, but those 2 longbows are tied to the city I'd say, and won't move.
I favor the Nanjing gift next turn once the teleport succeeeds. I wouldn't gift Mansa any units either. He'll just lose them without inflicting hardly any damage.
I also worry a bit about Tokugawa's stack. It isn't just 13 horse archers. It is 6 catapults and 6 longbows too. Sure, with a bunch of treb attacks it ain't no big deal, but killing 25 units takes 25 attackers and I'm not sure we'll have that many.
You seem to have everything in hand. Maybe switch to a merchant specialist in Timbuktu for +6gpt. Good luck with the teleporting!
I think giving (e.g.) Xian caters more directly to Toku's stack. There more time for us to regroup forces to shadow Toku's stack, and strike at the opportune moment. That would probably be while Toku is still marching to Xian, because we need to be sure we can can use the Osaka neutral tile (while it is still available) to leave a force to take and hold Osaka to provide a return destination for the Warwick troops. The Osaka stack will pack our settler, in case some disaster maroons them teleporting to north of Churchill, or something.
In good news, Mansa is back in Hinduism, and we still have our last Hindu missionary, so we can bring that on the second teleport to England and convert Warwick before the gift to Mansa.
mabraham
Deity
Forts 2N1E and 2N1W of Dyeing Town might allow galley access to the Alemmani water? Edit: Tested, yes that will work. We can use some of our Hades galleys to provide a second beachhead on Peter!
mabraham
Deity
The plan
T158
DOW Peter. Four units will teleport to a common point, advance and capture worker. There's no sign of an actual Peter stack, though he is busily upgrading swords and axes to maces. Can't cut off his metal.
Give Xian to Mansa.
T159
Trade Mission in Kyoto
Land 3 trebs (all CR1+barrage) and phant with advancing stack next to Yaroslavl, bombard while waiting for second round (unless somehow we have enough stuff to take Y already). Bring captured worker back to PBC.
Observe that Toku is moving on Xian - probably with 13 HA, 6 cats and a few chariots. There are 6 lbs, perhaps 2 will come with the stack, because they were just assigned a new role. Marshal troops to shadow the stack. We will have plenty to deal with it, perhaps add a catapult or two
Organize slow stacks to teleport to 2S3E of Tokyo, then all advance towards Osaka. Later there will be a split between forces to take Osaka and the majority to go to Churchill. The job of the Osaka stack is to provide a ticket home for the Churchill stack. Send catapults back to join the Toku stack-smashing force, since that combat is likely to be in the field.
Close borders with Toku, DOW Mansa, open borders with Toku, (then CF with Mansa?)
Fast stack moves 2NW, DOW Churchill, take Warwick
Settler moves to join the slow stack to take Osaka
Hindu missionary moves to join the slow stack to go to convert Warwick.
Qin captured workers build mass roads for future maneuvers against Toku expeditionary force
T160
Peter and Churchill wars continue.
T161
Hand over turn set
T162-3
Slow stack to take Osaka assembles somewhere about 2NW of Osaka, to teleport to the neutral tile
Slow stack to take England assembles 2E of Warwick, to teleport to Warwick.
DOW Toku, advance on Osaka, advance in England, smash his horse archer stack somewhere near Shanghai
Open borders with Mansa from shared war?
Gift Hindu Warwick to Mansa, so that its borders will be guaranteed to have popped by the time we are done with Churchill and want to go back to kill Kyoto.
T164
GMerchant pops, send to do trade mission in Walata (mild whipping in Aachen until then)
T175ish finish killing Churchill, bring units back to Warwick, final DOW of Mansa to teleport most units back to outside Osaka. Maroon enough units to recapture Warwick. Recapture Xian. Capture Walata.
T158
DOW Peter. Four units will teleport to a common point, advance and capture worker. There's no sign of an actual Peter stack, though he is busily upgrading swords and axes to maces. Can't cut off his metal.
Give Xian to Mansa.
T159
Trade Mission in Kyoto
Land 3 trebs (all CR1+barrage) and phant with advancing stack next to Yaroslavl, bombard while waiting for second round (unless somehow we have enough stuff to take Y already). Bring captured worker back to PBC.
Observe that Toku is moving on Xian - probably with 13 HA, 6 cats and a few chariots. There are 6 lbs, perhaps 2 will come with the stack, because they were just assigned a new role. Marshal troops to shadow the stack. We will have plenty to deal with it, perhaps add a catapult or two
Organize slow stacks to teleport to 2S3E of Tokyo, then all advance towards Osaka. Later there will be a split between forces to take Osaka and the majority to go to Churchill. The job of the Osaka stack is to provide a ticket home for the Churchill stack. Send catapults back to join the Toku stack-smashing force, since that combat is likely to be in the field.
Close borders with Toku, DOW Mansa, open borders with Toku, (then CF with Mansa?)
Fast stack moves 2NW, DOW Churchill, take Warwick
Settler moves to join the slow stack to take Osaka
Hindu missionary moves to join the slow stack to go to convert Warwick.
Qin captured workers build mass roads for future maneuvers against Toku expeditionary force
T160
Peter and Churchill wars continue.
T161
Hand over turn set
T162-3
Slow stack to take Osaka assembles somewhere about 2NW of Osaka, to teleport to the neutral tile
Slow stack to take England assembles 2E of Warwick, to teleport to Warwick.
DOW Toku, advance on Osaka, advance in England, smash his horse archer stack somewhere near Shanghai
Open borders with Mansa from shared war?
Gift Hindu Warwick to Mansa, so that its borders will be guaranteed to have popped by the time we are done with Churchill and want to go back to kill Kyoto.
T164
GMerchant pops, send to do trade mission in Walata (mild whipping in Aachen until then)
T175ish finish killing Churchill, bring units back to Warwick, final DOW of Mansa to teleport most units back to outside Osaka. Maroon enough units to recapture Warwick. Recapture Xian. Capture Walata.
mabraham
Deity
OK starting play shortly. Will update this post.
T158
Gave Xian to Mansa, no problems.
DOWed Peter. Two units teleported unexpectedly - some kind of rounding issue. Will be OK.
T159
Toku stack has taken the bait, 13HA, chariot, 6cats and 4lbs. We will need to start some catapults.
Churchill revolted to Bur, so we have another turn of breathing room, not that I can see any reason for delay. He is upgrading to maces, also.
Trade mission in Kyoto for 1100
, Aachen was size 11. Thought we were expecting 1300. Whatever.
Gulp. Time to teleport. Tested again. Wish us luck! FIRST ONE WORKED moved 2NW, dowed Churchill SECOND TELEPORT WORKED!!!! Captured Warwick. A moment of silence, please, for the three brave knights who died.
DOWed Mansa. Attateam - three DOWs in two turns! Opened borders with Toku. Got 7 gold/turn for marble. Toku gets Eng next turn, so his stack will make faster progress.
Remembered at the last moment to organize a defence in Djenne
T160
Churchill took the bait on the scout, so two catapults will die in the field. Onward to Hastings to deny iron before he can build the knights he just started
Toku is building Sistine Chapel in Kyoto with 5 turns to go, so there is a fail wealth opportunity there, most likely. Started SC in Stony Beach. We also have marble still.
The Toku killing field has been stripped and roaded. I want blood! But we probably don't want to DOW until T162, so we can position the Osaka units.
T161
Toku completed Sistine, and has chopped a one-turn castle in Kyoto also. Bastard.
T158
Gave Xian to Mansa, no problems.
DOWed Peter. Two units teleported unexpectedly - some kind of rounding issue. Will be OK.
T159
Toku stack has taken the bait, 13HA, chariot, 6cats and 4lbs. We will need to start some catapults.
Churchill revolted to Bur, so we have another turn of breathing room, not that I can see any reason for delay. He is upgrading to maces, also.
Trade mission in Kyoto for 1100
, Aachen was size 11. Thought we were expecting 1300. Whatever.Gulp. Time to teleport. Tested again. Wish us luck! FIRST ONE WORKED moved 2NW, dowed Churchill SECOND TELEPORT WORKED!!!! Captured Warwick. A moment of silence, please, for the three brave knights who died.
DOWed Mansa. Attateam - three DOWs in two turns! Opened borders with Toku. Got 7 gold/turn for marble. Toku gets Eng next turn, so his stack will make faster progress.
Remembered at the last moment to organize a defence in Djenne
T160
Churchill took the bait on the scout, so two catapults will die in the field. Onward to Hastings to deny iron before he can build the knights he just started
Toku is building Sistine Chapel in Kyoto with 5 turns to go, so there is a fail wealth opportunity there, most likely. Started SC in Stony Beach. We also have marble still.
The Toku killing field has been stripped and roaded. I want blood! But we probably don't want to DOW until T162, so we can position the Osaka units.
T161
Toku completed Sistine, and has chopped a one-turn castle in Kyoto also. Bastard.
mabraham
Deity
Uploaded here http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Kakumeika_SG017_AD1505_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Spam log
Spam log
Spoiler :
mabraham
Deity
That ends my turn set.
It is possible to DOW Toku this turn, but we will need teleport testing and unit counting to be sure we leave enough to take Osaka. Our units around Nanjing are set up for the kill on Toku's stack, who is in the open right now. We have more than enough to take him. That would be convenient for retaking Xian this turn also, for (probably) enough war success to get back to peace with Mansa for the Warwick gift after the Hindu spread.
We are also set up to raze Hastings for the loss of about two knights. We should certainly pillage the iron, even if we do not attack this turn - we do not want him to build knights or upgrade to maces. If we do attack, Churchill has settlers, so we still want to pillage the iron. Then probably regroup and hit Canterbury. Pillaging cottages and stuff can take place later once Churchill is dead (unless the the tiles will be in Warwick's culture, perhaps).
I have scribbled some notes on the map about some of my intentions with the Peter front.
With suitable modifications, my teleport-mapping saved game posted previously should be useful this turn set also.
Thanks all for the feedback during my set!
Good luck bcool! It has become traditional for you to end up taking the last turn set... but I think the task is beyond you this time!
It is possible to DOW Toku this turn, but we will need teleport testing and unit counting to be sure we leave enough to take Osaka. Our units around Nanjing are set up for the kill on Toku's stack, who is in the open right now. We have more than enough to take him. That would be convenient for retaking Xian this turn also, for (probably) enough war success to get back to peace with Mansa for the Warwick gift after the Hindu spread.
We are also set up to raze Hastings for the loss of about two knights. We should certainly pillage the iron, even if we do not attack this turn - we do not want him to build knights or upgrade to maces. If we do attack, Churchill has settlers, so we still want to pillage the iron. Then probably regroup and hit Canterbury. Pillaging cottages and stuff can take place later once Churchill is dead (unless the the tiles will be in Warwick's culture, perhaps).
I have scribbled some notes on the map about some of my intentions with the Peter front.
With suitable modifications, my teleport-mapping saved game posted previously should be useful this turn set also.
Thanks all for the feedback during my set!
Good luck bcool! It has become traditional for you to end up taking the last turn set... but I think the task is beyond you this time!
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,920
Congralutions on a great turn set, mabraham!
Sun Tzu Wu
Sun Tzu Wu
bcool
Deity
Great turnset mabraham! I'll do my best to carry it forward.
Okay I have the save.
1. Sun Tzu Wu
2. mabraham
3. Walter_Wolf ... Will let us know
4. bcool ... UP NOW
5. Tachywaxon ... Will let us know
6. sossos ... ON DECK
7. Kaitzilla ... IN THE HOLE
8. WastinTime ... Will let us know
One concern, I don't think I'll be able to give Mansa the city back because he refuses to talk to us due to the recent DoW.
I'll kill his explorer and perhaps a few more units to speed it up.
I won't be able to get a PPP up until late tonight perhaps in 12 hours or so. More likely will be something tomorrow in 28 hours or so.
It will be tough going I think, based a quick look. With pillaging we might be able to run the espionage slider.
If anyone wants to do a unit count, I'm not sure we have units to throw away against Churchill. Losing units early will hurt us in the long run.
Okay I have the save.
1. Sun Tzu Wu
2. mabraham
3. Walter_Wolf ... Will let us know
4. bcool ... UP NOW
5. Tachywaxon ... Will let us know
6. sossos ... ON DECK
7. Kaitzilla ... IN THE HOLE
8. WastinTime ... Will let us know
One concern, I don't think I'll be able to give Mansa the city back because he refuses to talk to us due to the recent DoW.
I'll kill his explorer and perhaps a few more units to speed it up.
I won't be able to get a PPP up until late tonight perhaps in 12 hours or so. More likely will be something tomorrow in 28 hours or so.
It will be tough going I think, based a quick look. With pillaging we might be able to run the espionage slider.
If anyone wants to do a unit count, I'm not sure we have units to throw away against Churchill. Losing units early will hurt us in the long run.
mabraham
Deity
We want to make Warwick Hindu before the gift, and the only way to get the missionary across is at the Toku-DOW teleport. Once we've DOWed Toku, we will smash his stack in the field, and we have no further need for Mansa to own Xian. I expect that taking Xian will be more than enough war success that some kind of peace with Mansa will become available. Then a Warwick gift will work smoothly.
But we can pick off some Mansa explorers, too. He has 3 or so at home. There's a spy probing Walata. If our knight can pick off a skirmisher before Mansa gets Feudalism, that might be nice.
There are one or two Toku scouts wandering around our southern colony, but there are no real units other than his main attack stack.
Likewise, I saw no roving barbs (though there is a barb city SE of Dyeing Town).
mabraham
Deity
Not counting medics, we have 50 combat units in the England-Osaka sector. Churchill has 26 we can see now. Toku has 19 in his western sector, including some horse archers on the move somewhere east. So I think we are well in business there. We want a dozen units that can take and hold Osaka (presumably with espionage revolt) and wait around for the clean up of Churchill.
Toku's stack has 24 units, plus 6 more longbows back defending cities. We have around 40 in the Shanghai sector and adding about two knights per turn from the southern colonies. This will increase as Chinese cities come online.
Plus a five spies in Toku culture and another en route.
We have 33 units and 8 spies currently in delivery for Peter, so that is probably the most pressing for reinforcements.
There's 7 units at home just built seeking orders, which I think means Peter.
I think the overall picture is reasonably good. More importantly, I think the sectors are reasonably balanced (and we can adjust the use of espionage to balance it further as required), so long as the Churchill troops get on with the job fast. We are producing knights rapidly. I think the job of knights in the Churchill campaign is to capture some land so that the slow troops have roads to work with once they've teleported in. They'll hit culture sooner or later, but waiting for the siege units before we take Hastings and Canterbury seems unconscionable to me. The long run for the Churchill units doesn't bother me, because we will be up against Toku with no metal, no stack, and we will have a good supply of knights from our colonies.
Toku is building a lot of castles, so perhaps we want more spies and espionage there. He is also building the Colossus in Kagoshima, so there is a fail wealth option there.
Importantly, I put max espionage on Tokygawa to get city vision, and we know Osaka's border will pop in two turns. So I think T162 is a hard upper limit for the DOW on Toku. That's OK, but our straggling units will not get the choice to teleport anywhere but Warwick, though.
I think we can take Xian back from Mansa once we DoW Toku and then Mansa will talk peace next turn like Mabraham said. Giving Warwick to Mansa later shouldn't be a problem.
We could then reopen borders with Mansa right away because we will share war against Toku.
Amazing work Mabraham!
You've definitely put us in a position to win the game quickly. Toku's stack is dead next turn or the one after that for sure. I don't mind hitting them in the field with catapults. It lets us kill off his siege with flanking attacks using knights because he isn't in a city yet. That should lower the killers we need by 6.
Peter and Toku are definitely castling up. It's going to be a bloodbath fighting 3 AI at once. The power graph indicates that Peter is beginning to whip himself an army.
The spies in Peter's and Toku's lands will have to be used efficiently. We can use the slider a little, but we don't have infinite EP for them.
That Osaka info is extremely valuable! If we are going to DoW Toku next turn after the teleport, that would be the only way to get units in the neutral tile to attack Toku's fat western cities. That tile won't exist for us to use T163.
Truly we are getting places in just the edge of time down south.
You've definitely put us in a position to win the game quickly. Toku's stack is dead next turn or the one after that for sure. I don't mind hitting them in the field with catapults. It lets us kill off his siege with flanking attacks using knights because he isn't in a city yet. That should lower the killers we need by 6.
Peter and Toku are definitely castling up. It's going to be a bloodbath fighting 3 AI at once. The power graph indicates that Peter is beginning to whip himself an army.
The spies in Peter's and Toku's lands will have to be used efficiently. We can use the slider a little, but we don't have infinite EP for them.
That Osaka info is extremely valuable! If we are going to DoW Toku next turn after the teleport, that would be the only way to get units in the neutral tile to attack Toku's fat western cities. That tile won't exist for us to use T163.
Truly we are getting places in just the edge of time down south.
mabraham
Deity
Amazing work Mabraham!
You've definitely put us in a position to win the game quickly. Toku's stack is dead next turn or the one after that for sure. I don't mind hitting them in the field with catapults. It lets us kill off his siege with flanking attacks using knights because he isn't in a city yet. That should lower the killers we need by 6.
Peter and Toku are definitely castling up. It's going to be a bloodbath fighting 3 AI at once. The power graph indicates that Peter is beginning to whip himself an army.
I suspect the increase is mostly mace upgrades.
Yes. The good thing is that once the last of the army is sent, we can still build wealth and use the slider to convert gold to espionage as the opportunity permits. So there is still value in our hammers tiles for the post-whipping post-army period.
Yes. We can make no complaints about our luck!!!
Great work with the teleport guys (and the war machine too, of course!)
mabraham
Deity
Thanks to STW, too, for the test game with accurate map. That was indeed useful for teleport mapping.
Similar threads
