SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika

Please see turn set results notes (incomplete) here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12774251&postcount=746

Sun Tzu Wu

I will update the test game in a day or two.

I plan to play 1 more turn to complete my turn set with the completion of Currency.

Sun Tzu Wu

Great work Sun Tzu Wu!

That 2nd stolen worker is a big deal for us on Turn 50/2000BC.

If we can get another free cease fire in 4? turns by avoiding losing any units, we can probably steal another worker from the copper with both a chariot and a warrior.
2 Units stealing a worker means that a Genghis chariot can't take another worker back
Or would that be putting Fur City at risk?

Combined with Mansa getting that Great Merchant at 40% odds (for a 700 trade mission that we will gradually trade for as his pop grows) and also teching Monarchy for us, we are in a good position techwise compared to the other teams I am confident.


Now all we have to do is decide what to build in our capital T50.
I favor another warrior while working 2 flood plains getting to Size 5, but another chariot would be nice too. We can have Hereditary Rule next turn if we wish (and Organized Religion too I hope) which means we can run 2 scientists in the capital.
Just need to check the test game for when -1gpt for each warrior kicks in.


A few T50 Real Game Screenshots:

I don't think Monarchy and now Theo puts us in a good position for tech. We really wanted Mansa to get Math and CoL or even IW. Monarchy? meh, we can get that from someone else.

No way are we wasting Currency trade to get Monarchy (HR) from Mansa. That is a non-Mansa tech.

That is a good point about Monarchy. Still, we have a lot of juicy tiles and it would be kind of nice to have
Is there some trick that will make Mansa switch his teching choice?

Mmm, if we gifted Mansa a city on the eastern edge of the map in the desert, would he found Christianity there?
Also, Theology from Mansa would mean we could tech Paper and then Education.
Maybe we could bulb those after getting Great Library.

Another option is to tech Code of Laws ourselves once we have Priesthood and Currency.
Having a religious capital is needed if we are going to make a Great Spy work.

Regardless, we still need 1 build in the capital to complete the turnset. I still like warrior while growing to Size 5 on gold and floodplains. It can go garrison Pigs so we can whip a granary there after whipping a settler.
Shark can do research or maybe start a galley. Don't think we want library there yet.
Should our scout continue southwest or is there an urgent need to see Joao's capital?

With only 3 trading partners and no tech brokering, our tech game is gonna be complicated.
We got 4 military targets too.
Genghis, Joao, Swinger's Pad(Pyramids), Goldmember over the sea to the south.

Enslaving Mansa would be kind of fun, but his teching with Immortal bonuses will be invaluable to us.
We could always gift 2 cities within 6 tiles of his capital afterwards to get +3 Liberation bonus to make up for the war



Looking at our 3 tech partners, I'm becoming increasingly worried about Gandhi. Only 1 city and he isn't in the Top 5 cities either.
21000 on the demo screen means 3 Pop.



Now for the gold predictions on T51 when we get Currency. (Assuming all these equations are right )
From an earlier post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12774570&postcount=774

We know Mansa has at least a population of 8 from the Top5 screenshot, so he should be willing to trade 97.6 next turn.
If Mansa's population is 9? 109.8 from his stash of 700
If Mansa's population is 10? 122
I'm not sure if the game rounds or truncates to the nearest 10.

Gandhi can't have deficit spending yet because he is only 1 city.
That means he can offer us [3*(51+10)*10]/100 up to 18.3 next turn depending on how much cash he has saved up.

Dr. Evil probably has a lot of population by now, but his iMaxGoldTradePercent=5, so he will over the course of the game only offer 1/2 as much gold per pop as Gandhi and 1/4th as much as Mansa.
If he is rich with 20 pop already, he could be willing to trade 50

Joao is also a 5 Maybe 10 or 20 tops.
Genghis too.

So far, it looks like only Mansa is gonna have huge amounts of gold for us this game unless Gandhi can get his act together.

Is there something special about settling a city 6 plots from an AI capital and getting +1.5 diplomacy for liberating it to the AI? In other words, is 6 plots from an AI capital a significant distance for the liberation diplomatic bonus?

EDIT: In my experience, the liberation bonus is available with the AI whose capital is closest to the target liberation city, assuming one's capital is further away. There are no specific plot distances from the AI capital that must be met, before liberation becomes possible although the target liberation city probably needs to be 9.5 plots from the AI's closest city to make giving the city to the AI even possible.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu said:

Is there something special about settling a city 6 plots from an AI capital and getting +1.5 diplomacy for liberating it to the AI? In other words, is 6 plots from an AI capital a significant distance for the liberation diplomatic bonus?

EDIT: In my experience, the liberation bonus is available with the AI whose capital is closest to the target liberation city, assuming one's capital is further away. There are no specific plot distances from the AI capital that must be met, before liberation becomes possible although the target liberation city probably needs to be 9.5 plots from the AI's closest city to make giving the city to the AI even possible.

Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

Well, 6 or less tiles seems to always get liberation bonus.
7 seems to sometimes give the bonus and sometimes not
8 seems to do it rarely.

Just open the test game and surround Mansa's capital with tons of cities we own.
Liberate all that you can to him and see what's left.

**Edit**
Oh! That's good to know thanks

How fast can we get a chariot and and a warrior out of the capital? Can we get the warrior out soon enough after a chariot to garrison Pigs before we plan to hook up copper?

I think we will want 2 chariots and the warrior up north to harass GK and protect Fur/Corn.

With the 2nd worker stolen, it does makes sense to keep up the pressure on GK with more chariots out of the capital.

bcool said:

How fast can we get a chariot and and a warrior out of the capital? Can we get the warrior out soon enough after a chariot to garrison Pigs before we plan to hook up copper?

I think we will want 2 chariots and the warrior up north to harass GK and protect Fur/Corn.

With the 2nd worker stolen, it does makes sense to keep up the pressure on GK with more chariots out of the capital.

Click to expand...

This sounds good to me. I agree with a Chariot followed by a Warrior in Capitalist while growing on Wheat, Gold, and a Floodplains.

In Shark, we should consider starting a Galley instead of a Library as Kaitzilla suggested. It would be good to determine Goldmembers' defensive strength in their city south of us. We might consider building Research in Shark while growing Capitalist faster just to avoid deciding to build something else to complete Currency by t51 via 90% Research.

My suggests for t50 are:

Capitalist:
t50: Chariot; Wheat, Gold, Floodplains, Floodplains

Shark:
t50: Galley Build Research; Fish

Sun Tzu Wu

Alotta will arrive on Copper Hill t53 and complete a Mine t57. It will take Capitalist 5t to complete a Chariot and 2t to complete a Warrior at the current 3H OF and 6 Hpt. Thus the Warrior will complete t57 or possibly earlier if Pop 5 works the Marble Quarry on t53.

Sun Tzu Wu

bcool said:

How fast can we get a chariot and and a warrior out of the capital? Can we get the warrior out soon enough after a chariot to garrison Pigs before we plan to hook up copper?

I think we will want 2 chariots and the warrior up north to harass GK and protect Fur/Corn.

With the 2nd worker stolen, it does makes sense to keep up the pressure on GK with more chariots out of the capital.

Click to expand...

It looks like the capital can complete another chariot T54 and another warrior T56 if we work marble at Size 5 starting T53. Will have to cancel the gold gift and get our +1 happy back T53.

We will have bronze hooked up on T56 if we use both workers. I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to delay bronze till T57 if needed.


I am happy for us to make a chariot in the capital and a galley in Shark.
Seems good to me for one more turn.

I always like seeing horse units in pairs when possible. 2 chariots would be great to have.

I think I'd rather build a lighthouse in Shark than a galley--certainly not research. well if we have to build research to finish currency okay, research it is on T50
Now that Shark has a granary a lighthouse (cheap since we are organized..) will repay itself in just what 11 turns? what will the galley get us?

If we want to grow 5 Fpt versus 2 Fpt in Capitalist, we must built Research in for example Shark to complete Currency by turn 51. Note that we must set Research to 90%; only 3W left.

Again my suggestion for turn 50:

Capitalist:
t50: Chariot; Wheat, Gold Mine, Floodplains, Floodplains

Shark:
t50: Build Research; Fish

Can we please get a concensus for this?

Sun Tzu Wu

bcool said:

I think I'd rather build a lighthouse in Shark than a galley--certainly not research. well if we have to build research to finish currency okay, research it is on T50
Now that Shark has a granary a lighthouse (cheap since we are organized..) will repay itself in just what 11 turns? what will the galley get us?

Click to expand...

A galley will give us some scouting of Goldmember and decent odds of protecting our fish one time.
Twice though, the odds are against our galley winning twice
We need 2 galleys to fully secure our fish, a very expensive investment.

A lighthouse is a very cheap 30 as you have pointed out. If we lost the fish after building it, we'd have nothing if a Goldmember galley blockaded us. Just 3-food floodplains.

The mapmaker has really put us in a pickle! That is why I want one floodplain farm so badly, so we aren't hurt so bad at Size 1 or Size 2 if the worst happens.

Sun Tzu Wu said:

If we want to grow 5 Fpt versus 2 Fpt in Capitalist, we must built Research in for example Shark to complete Currency by turn 51. Note that we must set Research to 90%; only 3W left.

Again my suggestion for turn 50:

Capitalist:
t50: Chariot; Wheat, Gold Mine, Floodplains, Floodplains

Shark:
t50: Build Research; Fish

Can we please get a concensus for this?

Sun Tzu Wu

Click to expand...

If we need to build Research in Shark to get Currency by T51, then by all means I am for that

Yes, this build plan has my vote.

Kaitzilla said:

If we need to build Research in Shark to get Currency by T51, then by all means I am for that

Yes, this build plan has my vote.

Click to expand...

We don't need to build Research in Shark, if we are willing to work the Marble Quarry in Capitalist and grow just 2 Fpt than 5 Fpt. I assumed we want Capitalist to grow 5 Fpt rather than just 2 Fpt, thus the need to build Research in Shark to complete Currency by t51.

Can we please approve my previous plan for t50, so I can end my turn set and we can start planning the next turn set?

Not to throw another ball onto the ones were already juggling, but do we want to consider a Barracks in Capitalist? As WastinTime previously mentioned, we may want to build a Barracks in Capitalist if we are planning to build a lot of military units there.

Sun Tzu Wu

We need a chariot for Corn/Fur protection and to continue stealing workers from GK. I don't think we can wait for barracks build in the capital.

We can not play one turn at a time. If after 24 hours someone doesn't express an opinion then we have to play on.

We have at least 3 votes for chariot in Capitalist and research in Shark and you have waited at least 24 hours. Play on.

bcool said:

We need a chariot for Corn/Fur protection and to continue stealing workers from GK. I don't think we can wait for barracks build in the capital.

We can not play one turn at a time. If after 24 hours someone doesn't express an opinion then we have to play on.

We have at least 3 votes for chariot in Capitalist and research in Shark and you have waited at least 24 hours. Play on.

Click to expand...

I'll vote for playing on also. 3 votes out of 6 team members should be enough to proceed

Chariot and Research are good choices.

Ok, I will finish t50 and my turn set ASAP (early this evening), using the plan I posted yesterday where Capitalist starts a Chariot and Shark builds Research to complete Currency by t51.

Sorry, I don't think I should have played yesterday, because team members were still divided on what to built and discussing. Moving on after 24 hours without _any_ input is a different situation where immediately continuing play is the only sensible thing to do.

Sun Tzu Wu

Ok, I've checked the real game for the health bar trick.

It does indeed appear that the strongest unit that has existed in our game is 8 (Fat Bastard War Elephant)

Here is a reference pic, a real game pic, and a pic where both chariot health bars are combined. (Using Microsoft Paint)









I would be very surprised if we run into a unit stronger than 8
Hopefully I performed this trick correctly using the "show health bar" option in the game menu