Fall Patch changes discussion thread

Regarding whether the AI will declare war early: definite change. Playing on Immortal I witnessed my first world war on turn 58! It happened because Genghis, Bouddica, Shaka and Alex all started on the same continent, with Poland in the middle. Poland turned into an absolute terror: he only had 3 cities (one of them Greece's old capital) but built 18 wonders before the Modern age and had a score of 1000 before anyone else was over 400.

(Unfortunately I pretty much folded on that game; I had a terrible start location and even though I eventually passed Poland in science and did grab the Forbidden Palace during the Modern era the combined forces of me, Bouddica, and Shaka attacking from all sides--me with planes--just couldn't beat his ability to spam endless units even though he was Embargoed.)
 
I'm a bit disappointed that we could not choose the citystates in the set-up menu.
It is weird to get Bucarest or Lhassa when I want an american mood game with Mayas, Incas, Brazil...

That would be a bad thing since City-State types (cultural, religious, military, etc.) are hardcoded with the City-State name. The name of the City-State is irrelevant, it's the type that matters and one should not be able to load up on one type.
 
I really like the new Deal AI. Before, an AI would almost never actually ask me for something. Now, with this beta, they really want my stuff! The turn after I get a spare luxury resource I get unhappy, or low happiness AIs popping up at my door like Jehovah's Witnesses!

I like it. :)
 
Deal AI: AI properly values Gold in hand over GPT, so over 30 turns it won't get 150 for 5GPT. Instead only 85% of that.
This is my favourite one. I always feel like cheating when I trade 300 gold to an ally for 10 gpt... Now the AI will only give me 255 gold for that.
On the other hand, I expect I'll be able to give gold to an AI for more gpt. Actually when the AI lacks some gold for a research agreement, I often have to give 42 gold for 1 gpt... whereas that dumbass should at least be happy with 30 gold for 1 gpt !

The best thing would have been : AI values Gold in hand over GPT depending on how much gold he owns (instead that arbitrary 85%).

Everything else seem rather cool too. A shame that consulate was not nerfed though !
 
Re: Samurai

A Samurai should be able to earn the promotion Great Samurai which allows the player to change the unit into a General, an Admiral, an Artist or a Writer.
 
Re: Samurai

A Samurai should be able to earn the promotion Great Samurai which allows the player to change the unit into a General, an Admiral, an Artist or a Writer.

I love this idea too! Unfortunately it's too late and will probably never get implemented.
 
Re: Samurai

A Samurai should be able to earn the promotion Great Samurai which allows the player to change the unit into a General, an Admiral, an Artist or a Writer.

Add me as one who thinks that is a really neat idea. As a promotion might be tough (IE: "Hey, you're in a middle of a war and just got a promotion! What do you think about turning that military unit into an Artist?"), but maybe once I dunno, Industrialization/Military Science/etc is researched, or something?
 
Two changes not listed in the patch notes but I noticed going through the files:

-Indonesian Candi no longer requires Fresh Water
-Samurai upgrades to Rifleman instead of Musketman (also obsoletes later)

Good catch. This was nagging at me last night. I'd just gotten the tech to Muskets before quitting, noticed I couldn't upgrade my samurai. If its intentional, lets hope they gave the samurai a buff!
 
Two changes not listed in the patch notes but I noticed going through the files:

-Indonesian Candi no longer requires Fresh Water
-Samurai upgrades to Rifleman instead of Musketman (also obsoletes later)

Woah woah woah, that's really cool, particularly the first.
 
Two changes not listed in the patch notes but I noticed going through the files:

-Indonesian Candi no longer requires Fresh Water
-Samurai upgrades to Rifleman instead of Musketman (also obsoletes later)

Phew! The Candi change makes that UB vaguely useful, and the Samurai upgrade path change is also extremely welcome (wouldn't want those Fishing Boat-creating Units obsoleting too fast, would we?)
 
Perhaps time to start a new thread about unlisted changes? It'd be nice to have the changes in one area.
 
Re: Samurai

A Samurai should be able to earn the promotion Great Samurai which allows the player to change the unit into a General, an Admiral, an Artist or a Writer.

Interesting idea. Probably a far way out of the reach of this patch though.:p
 
Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the samurai/fishing boat thing.

Usually, by that time, I'm sure a majority of the available water resources one has are already improved. If not, a work boat becomes a paltry cost anyway.

I think I kind of get it, though. Water is one of the very flavorful representations of Japanese culture. It also reinforces the warrior poet idea, since fishes provide +1 culture and because fishing can be seen as tranquil and simple in nature to contrast the harsher aspects of a warrior's life and battle.

- - - -

It's too bad there's no existing code for this, but...

It would be cool to have some sort of promotion which grants some culture upon death.

This way, samurais could gain the promotion, fight to the death (since they always fight as if they had full health anyway) and then reward the player.

This would also compliment the Zeros as well, and the promotion could be called Kamikaze! Honorable deaths for Japan. :D

Another approach, which again, there isn't any existing code (especially AI code) to handle it would be to allow samurais the ability to "expend" themselves and disappear to grant the player a small, lump sum of culture, just like great writers. This ability could be called seppuku. :)

Though, again, there's no AI code to support it and only the human player could take advantage of it.

Also, in more of a gameplay sense, I'm not sure how "cheesy" that would be to burn away low health samurais in the middle of battle for a small lump sum of culture.

- - - -

Anyway... I have other ideas I'm going to test out and will probably release a Samurai and Zero mod soon. The patch has motivated me a bit, haha.
 
Hooo boy, what a load of shiny new things to play with! Now, ono the analysis:

Warmonger penalty for conquering a city is now halved with other civs that are also at war with the civ being conquered. => YESSSSS.

Tourism: Further Benefits from Tourism when Influential with another Civ (science, conquest and spyionage) => A much, much needed addition that will greatly help to integrate tourism into the game rather than making it feel like an add-on. The whole synergy with war gives a new meaning to the whole "offensive culture" concept, and also borrow from my own suggestions, so I can't complain :D

Social Policies: Added Mercenary Army social policy to Commerce (allows purchasing of Landsknechts). Trade Unions old effect (cheaper road/rail maintenance) moved to Wagon Trains. => Good change all around, for it eliminates one of its weakest policies (wagon trains)

Social Policies: Boost City-State trade bonus from +1 Gold to +2 Gold on Merchant Confederacy. => Not enough of a boost, still very generic

Social Policies: Merchant Navy now provides +4 Culture and +4 Production in the city with the East India Company. => I quite like this one here. We could use more national wonder boosting effects, they are quite unique.

Social Policies: Theocracy - Temples increase city gold output by 25% instead of 10%. => Piety needs a far more in-depth overhaul than this, me thinks

Social Policies: Boost Warrior Code from +25% to Great General creation up to +50% => Seriously, the Honour SP tree needs an in-depth surgery, not a cosmetic change. Talk about dropping the ball with this one

Social Policies: Boost Navigation School to +50% Great Admiral points (to mirror the earlier change to Warrior Code for Great Generals). => The problem does not lie within the policy itself, but rather with how much utterly useless Great Admirals are

Social Policies: Switch Ethics policy (Aesthetics tree) to Cultural Exchange (increase Tourism modifier for Open Borders, Shared Religion and Trade Routes by 15% each). The policy now gives bonuses to Open Border and Trade Routes. => This is astounding. A much necessary and original boost for what was the weakest link on the Aestethic SP tree.

Tenet: Spaceflight Pioneers: Remove +10 Science in Capital; add free Great Engineer and Great Scientist instead. => Damn. Bestest Order tenet O_o probably one of the best ideological tenets now

Tenet: Gunboat Diplomacy tenet now makes military units 50% more effective at intimidating City-States. Also rearranged tooltip text for bullying score so that the positive factors are always first, for readability => Yes autocracy need a boost, badly, but this alone won't cut it. It would be good to see more cultural boosts, futurism nonwithstanding

Great Works of Writing (like the Rosetta Stone) now available from 30% of the Hidden Antiquity Sites. An alternative use of these is to create a "Cultural Renaissance" (equal to a Great Writer's Political Treatise). => A much needed clamoured change, but only 30% of hidden antiquity sites seems like a far too little bonus. I still mantain that unique artifacts are the way to go. This is a half hearted, flavourless approach to it

There are now diplomatic bonuses for building Landmarks in both city state and major civ territory. => Anything that offers additional choices to make is good on my book :)

Changes to Germany => The problem always relied on its UA, not its UU. And the problem lied on how much damn boring, un-historical and generic it was, rather than its effectivity per se. However, this is a move into the right direction. The Hanse is a damn boss UB that offers a massive productive edge and nudges the player towards a certain playstyle (CS trading!) so I quite like it.

Changes to Japan => I get where Firaxis is coming from, but I don't think that the execution is that good. Atolls are only met once you hit the renaissance, and +1 culture per fishing boat is a very, very minor boost. The Zero is still a joke, even if I quite like the way they boosted it. Samurai is... something, I guess. Still, a too much flakey design.

Additional Pantheons => I cannot be the only one here that said "holy freaking crap" @ Sun God pantheon, aka "goddess of hunt in steroids and with bionic lazer shark implant". Damn, it is that good.
 
not a fan of every civ in the game being able to build LandSnots, for flavor purposes. but like it due to everyone now being capable of being aggressive faster. just wonder why it had to be LandSnots.
 
not a fan of every civ in the game being able to build LandSnots, for flavor purposes. but like it due to everyone now being capable of being aggressive faster. just wonder why it had to be LandSnots.

I didn't know that everyone was forced to follow the Commerce: Mercenary Army SP ;)
 
Am I missing something or is Hanse flat 50% production bonus if you get both Petra and Colossus(and 40% even without)? Of course you would lose the benefits of trading with other civs, but still that seems quite high.
 
Keep in mind that Hanse (bank) comes quite late, so you are getting zero bonus until then. And eight trade routes plus Petra and Colossus is completely maxed out. Compare to Rome who is getting 25% right away (other than capital).

I obviously need to test it out more, but I'd argue Hanse needs to be that high just to compete. It is a late-game building, so needs to compensate for not getting anything until then.
 
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