Immortal/Large/Hannibal--1000 AD--seek advice.

Well I really hate playing with locked modified assets. Sometimes you just misclick. Or when you check out someones save asking for help you cant see what the AI is doing. Anyways........

Played the 2nd save a bit past 1000 AD: with all those horrible settings! :D
 

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Wow! I'd love to hear more about your game! Could you post or send me a save so I could learn what you are doing? It must have been crazy using Numidian Cavalry against Keshiks!

You are so much stronger than I was at 1000 AD. I seem to set up a cottaged bureacracy capital with Oxford, an irrigated NE city, a religious shrine city with Wall Street, and so on every game, even though it might not fit the map. On seeing what you did, I really need to mix things up a little.
 
Wow! I'd love to hear more about your game! Could you post or send me a save so I could learn what you are doing? It must have been crazy using Numidian Cavalry against Keshiks!
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Just ask me, or send me a pm with questions. I'm at work so no save. Let me tell you that Buffy, Big Maps, and Old Machines are a pain in the butt. My machine must have crashed 80x. Felt like I was playing HoF....which is why I stopped playing (too many crashes silly Buffy!).

But I didn't face any Keshik!! See my previous post (the 4th screen shot shows no keshiks killed). I did face lots of sword, axe, and spear though!:
 

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Yep it is all about how you play the map. Cseanny has used NC and the start much better here.
 
cseanny said:
But I didn't face any Keshik!! See my previous post (the 4th screen shot shows no keshiks killed). I did face lots of sword, axe, and spear though!:
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I see you have about half a dozen cities, such as Samarqand, with Mongol names. How did you get them without facing Keshik?

Gumbolt said:
Yep it is all about how you play the map. Cseanny has used NC and the start much better here.
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"NC"?
 
Numidian Cavalry
 
I see you have about half a dozen cities, such as Samarqand, with Mongol names. How did you get them without facing Keshik?
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Mongolia didn't have horses, however, he had 2 sources of iron. I got the cities by killing 17 sword, 13 Axe, 10 Spears, and 18 Archers (although some of those were barbs/Willem). I killed almost half of his units outside his cities by baiting him to recapture his lost cities. This was accomplished by leaving no units in Captured cities but with NCs blocking access to roads (protecting vs 2 movement)

Newly captured cities immediately began chopping/whipping more Numidians Cav (no barracks). My Capital also had very high production during my initial NC rush (20:hammers). Additionally, I used a WII Warrior to steal 2 workers from Willem very early keeping him at 1 city for a very long time I only founded 2 early cities > one grabbing Pigs/2FPs/2Gold near Mongolia and the 2nd blocking off land and claiming horse/sheep.
 
LincolnOfRome said:
I see you have about half a dozen cities, such as Samarqand, with Mongol names. How did you get them without facing Keshik?
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I saw in one of cseanny's screenshots that he took HBR with Oracle. My guess is that you teched HBR the slow way. The result was that cseanny attacked the Mongols before they managed to tech HBR, and you did not. If the Mongols had teched HBR I don't think it would be the end of the world because Keshiks don't get defensive bonuses, but sooner attack date in general makes a big difference in terms of minimizing losses.

Edit: xpost with cseanny
 
chessplaya said:
I saw in one of cseanny's screenshots that he took HBR with Oracle. My guess is that you teched HBR the slow way. The result was that cseanny attacked the Mongols before they managed to tech HBR, and you did not
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I followed AbsoluteZero's guide to horse rushing here. I think AZ's guide is a very good guide. I saw Cseanny's use of the Oracle as well. I don't know if skipping all the religious techs and masonry, or putting production into horse archers rather than a world wonder was the "slow way."

They are both really good strategies. I'm sure my implementation of AZ's guide was lacking, as I am sure my implementation of Cseanny's strategy would be as well. Still, Cseanny's use of the Oracle was pretty slick. I appreciate him sharing what he did with us. I have so much to learn from the great Civ players. I'm not sure if I will grow with experience or I will never get it. Great players seem to have an intuition that I don't.

I think huge difference in our starts was the warrior worker steal and shutdown of Willem before he even went on the attack. In my game, Willem had 7 cities by 600 BC. I had to kill 9 spearmen, 18 archers, and numerous axemen and swordsmen to conquer Willem alone. In Cseanny's game, Willem had 2 cities, though I'm not sure about the date of his attack.

Every time I steal workers and plant my warrior on a wooded hill near the enemy that enemy is easy picking later. I need to do that more often.
 
I saw Cseanny's use of the Oracle as well. I don't know if skipping all the religious techs and masonry, or putting production into horse archers rather than a world wonder was the "slow way."
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Imo our map made a traditional HA rush less appealing. Big and Small screams TGLH so we're gonna want Masonry some time regardless. Also, we had a respectable marble tile which would help speed up the Oracle while proving a boost in early commerce. Myst/Masonry comes in handy for several reasons. Utica needed immeditale border pop to "keep" pigs. 2nd, it's needed for the Oracle. And the 3rd big factor is getting FG from SH and TGW.

After my first 2 warriors my Capital was building SH till quite late. I got like 90 FG from it. Additionally, after Utica finished its monuments it began TGW. I got another 55 FG off that. Utica then made my second settler which effectively blocked off my land. Then, as soon as Sailing kicked in I grabbed a LH in Capital and finished TGLH with some chops before 1000 BC.

Then I went into crazy chop/whip mode with NCs. I didn't attack Willem till around 600 - 500 BC range (he actually had 3 cities), followed by Mongolia (whom had 8 cities) around 175 BC all the way through approximately 275 - 350 AD.
 
LincolnOfRome said:
I don't know if skipping all the religious techs and masonry, or putting production into horse archers rather than a world wonder was the "slow way."
Click to expand...
Probably it wasn't the slow way. I didn't open the save, so my guess was that you had virtually no commerce tiles but tons of hammer tiles, but I think I guessed wrong. Thanks for the explanation, cseanny. I agree that stealing two workers early to shut down Willem must have been the biggest difference. I've never been able to manage anything like that myself.
 
You had an excellent opening, Cseanny, and I learned a lot from it.
 
LincolnOfRome said:
I followed AbsoluteZero's guide to horse rushing here. I think AZ's guide is a very good guide. I saw Cseanny's use of the Oracle as well. I don't know if skipping all the religious techs and masonry, or putting production into horse archers rather than a world wonder was the "slow way."

They are both really good strategies. I'm sure my implementation of AZ's guide was lacking, as I am sure my implementation of Cseanny's strategy would be as well. Still, Cseanny's use of the Oracle was pretty slick. I appreciate him sharing what he did with us. I have so much to learn from the great Civ players. I'm not sure if I will grow with experience or I will never get it. Great players seem to have an intuition that I don't.

I think huge difference in our starts was the warrior worker steal and shutdown of Willem before he even went on the attack. In my game, Willem had 7 cities by 600 BC. I had to kill 9 spearmen, 18 archers, and numerous axemen and swordsmen to conquer Willem alone. In Cseanny's game, Willem had 2 cities, though I'm not sure about the date of his attack.

Every time I steal workers and plant my warrior on a wooded hill near the enemy that enemy is easy picking later. I need to do that more often.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, that was indeed an interesting watch.

Also have to fully agree with you on the point about intuition. The good players always seem to make the right choices, while I need about 3 tries and a writeup of the strategy before being able to come close to the same results.

AZ did get an incredible start in that game, but it was fun to see him rip Genghis a new one. He's not exactly a soft target.
 
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