1370 now has me in 6th 
Seriously impressive dates going on for this one
Seriously impressive dates going on for this one
G-Minor 183
- Thread starter shulec
- Start date
Had a 11xxAD peaceful game going but lost it 
51: Pig+Cow+Gold+3FP, 2Gold in 2nd city. AH-Mining-Writing-Alpha. 2100BC:Alpha, 3 cities, Set, 2Wor, Oracle gone. Tr up to Sailing, Mono, Monar, IW. Same reli in all cities.
CoL lost, Stone conn 1650BC, start Pyra, 7chops, got it. Bad 5th adn 6th sites around 1000BC. First cott 825BC, 2relis. Parth. Tr for Maths and half of Curr while doing Drama.
500BC: HG, first to Music, tr for CoL. MoM. Got dowed, rindo
51: Pig+Cow+Gold+3FP, 2Gold in 2nd city. AH-Mining-Writing-Alpha. 2100BC:Alpha, 3 cities, Set, 2Wor, Oracle gone. Tr up to Sailing, Mono, Monar, IW. Same reli in all cities.
CoL lost, Stone conn 1650BC, start Pyra, 7chops, got it. Bad 5th adn 6th sites around 1000BC. First cott 825BC, 2relis. Parth. Tr for Maths and half of Curr while doing Drama.
500BC: HG, first to Music, tr for CoL. MoM. Got dowed, rindo
Improved my first game.
Only Corn+Marble+Gold, so decide to agri-Mining-PH-Orac for CoL, 2000BC, 3 cities, 1 Worker, half of Alphabet.
6 cities 1300BC, 3 reli. CoL for Mono, Gpro for bulbing Theo, 4 reli.
Tr for Maths, bulb Philo with GS, 5th religions. OR+reli 500BC. Trade for CS while researching Music. NE, Parth. Convenient AP other, but I have no buildings yet. First to Music, tr immediately to only 1 AI for 800g, then later when another had it top other AI for 700g..
Sistine's, MoM. Pay 700g for Machi, only 1 has Paper. GA that could have been a GS for Educ.
10AD: 1cathedral, almost all reli extended, 15/30 temples, 3GP, Half of Educ, no Guilds. 150bpt, 3 Hamlet 1 Cottage.
All get Educ when I do, how to get Guilds and Bank? Marble AI wins Liber by 8t, TajMah is lost. 10Workers are starting to road now after having done everything, at times they seemed too few. 3Forges, but I'm able to tr for copper so only 2cathedrals out of 5 without resource.
475AD: GS for Gage, Liber, REV to FS+Cas+Paci, 15 Caths built. Tr for Guilds. Research GunP to tr for Merc (no, 4t of no Merc and no 100% is a lot). No Hermitage
The few turns of hiring GS in GPFarm (stopped at Music) come back to hunt me 2000 years later.
15 GA bombed, 1GAge, 2 bulbed, 1 useless. 15 cathedrals, no Hermitage.
Only Corn+Marble+Gold, so decide to agri-Mining-PH-Orac for CoL, 2000BC, 3 cities, 1 Worker, half of Alphabet.
6 cities 1300BC, 3 reli. CoL for Mono, Gpro for bulbing Theo, 4 reli.
Tr for Maths, bulb Philo with GS, 5th religions. OR+reli 500BC. Trade for CS while researching Music. NE, Parth. Convenient AP other, but I have no buildings yet. First to Music, tr immediately to only 1 AI for 800g, then later when another had it top other AI for 700g..
Sistine's, MoM. Pay 700g for Machi, only 1 has Paper. GA that could have been a GS for Educ.
10AD: 1cathedral, almost all reli extended, 15/30 temples, 3GP, Half of Educ, no Guilds. 150bpt, 3 Hamlet 1 Cottage.
All get Educ when I do, how to get Guilds and Bank? Marble AI wins Liber by 8t, TajMah is lost. 10Workers are starting to road now after having done everything, at times they seemed too few. 3Forges, but I'm able to tr for copper so only 2cathedrals out of 5 without resource.
475AD: GS for Gage, Liber, REV to FS+Cas+Paci, 15 Caths built. Tr for Guilds. Research GunP to tr for Merc (no, 4t of no Merc and no 100% is a lot). No Hermitage
The few turns of hiring GS in GPFarm (stopped at Music) come back to hunt me 2000 years later.
15 GA bombed, 1GAge, 2 bulbed, 1 useless. 15 cathedrals, no Hermitage.
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Congratulations jesusin! Which map type did you play on?
On my forth attempt, I was DoWed by De Gaulle. Maybe I should have build Phalanx units rather than Warriors for MPs. I had three cities Marble, Stone, and Copper connected, but lost the copper city to De Gaulle.
How are people avoiding RLDV losses? I had a pretty good game going when I suffered my first RLDV. I now have two DoWs and two RLDV losses (both close - one just barely had enough votes - the other had just enough diplomacy. I probably need to work on my diplomacy - I was a candidate in the second loss.
jesusin, what were that stats of your three culture cities' food, hammer and commerce outputs, cottage status and resources? Did you complete Printing Press? Did you do a rush or was it a peaceful game?
Sun Tzu Wu
On my forth attempt, I was DoWed by De Gaulle. Maybe I should have build Phalanx units rather than Warriors for MPs. I had three cities Marble, Stone, and Copper connected, but lost the copper city to De Gaulle.
How are people avoiding RLDV losses? I had a pretty good game going when I suffered my first RLDV. I now have two DoWs and two RLDV losses (both close - one just barely had enough votes - the other had just enough diplomacy. I probably need to work on my diplomacy - I was a candidate in the second loss.
jesusin, what were that stats of your three culture cities' food, hammer and commerce outputs, cottage status and resources? Did you complete Printing Press? Did you do a rush or was it a peaceful game?
Sun Tzu Wu
I attempted a worker steal on Paris. There were two archers there. I stole the worker with a warrior and move a different warrior (2N2E for Paris) and scout (3N of Paris). I totally missed the AI do the dumbest thing ever! He attacked my worker poaching warrior, BUT ALSO SENT THE OTHER ARCHER INTO THE FOG! So Paris is there screaming "Take me!" I am out-of-town,talking to my wife on the phone, drink in hand, and I miss it! FREE CAPITOL! TAKE ME!
What is most perplexing is why the non-attacking garrison archer left Paris.
What is most perplexing is why the non-attacking garrison archer left Paris.
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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Absolutely normal. There's a Roleplaying-algorithm for the French in Civilization. Abandoning Paris follows a script.
Very interested in what pomthom will say towards this. He is French and played the French lately, but failed at roleplaying.
This definately means AI > pomthom, at least at roleplaying
.
Very interested in what pomthom will say towards this. He is French and played the French lately, but failed at roleplaying.
This definately means AI > pomthom, at least at roleplaying
.
It's probably worth investigating how this happened. It's huge if you can make it happen again...and again. New exploit?
Where was the worker? Your warrior/scout are NE not NW. Put that drink down! and explain it again please 
Where was the worker? Your warrior/scout are NE not NW. Put that drink down! and explain it again please
Picture=1000 words:
If it makes you feel any better, DeGaulle re-takes Paris. I wasn't able to get a Cease fire.
Sorry my report was telegraph-type. It's just the notes I took while playing. I'm short of real-time.
Inland sea map, just because I know what to expect. There might be better map scripts out there.
Four cottages in capital, zero elsewhere. 1 of them didn't even reach to Town. I am alwways busy improving pigs or chopping, so there's never time to build or work cottages. No PP. Only Marble, biut I could trade for Copper for a time.
Poor food in capital and second city. 126GPPpt GPFarm, but only 1 mine. I don't have exact numbers but I have uploaded 4 saves so you can look it all when it's published.
Peaceful game, of course.
No real time for fancy wars.EDIT: I had virtually 0 commerce. 2 Gold and 4 cottages where just enough to pay for maintenance, so even if I had 1500g in the bank (thorough tech for money trades) I reached Liberalism at 500AD. I would have needed an Education bulb to get there first.
About losing to a Religious Victory, I think it's a question of luck. If the AP religion is broadly extended, there's no problem. Your pop is enough to block any victory.
If an AI is lucky and is the only one with its religion and it behaves like a human (missionaries sent in the last minute to everyone) then there's little you can do. You could gift your infected city, but in a cultural Gauntlet you don't want to lose cities and you want more religions, no less, so you won't do anything of the sort.
12xx victory date, second position.
I tried out the Aggressive AI setting because Wastin had written that they took cease fires quickly after a Worker steal, but I observed what seemed to me like the opposite
Bad luck maybe..? (twas on Peter)
There is a trick to it ya.
You need to have your warrior be within 2 tiles of the AI's city threatening it.
With aggressive AI turned on, this acts like a few war success worth of kills making for rapid cease fires.
It also works in reverse. If the AI has an archer threatening your city, it will cancel out what your warrior is doing preventing a cease fire unless you threaten 2 of his cities at the same time.
De Gaulle is willing to talk peace after like 1 turn
The best is when he has 2 wet corns and one of them is on the edge of his borders.
Steal worker cease fire, wait a few turns, steal a worker cease fire, wait a few turns, steal a worker cease fire.
Only warmonger AI will give you -1's I think for attacking their buddy.
Rarely, a deity AI will refuse to talk peace after a worker steal and you threaten one of their cities. Not sure why.
I attempted a worker steal on Paris. There were two archers there. I stole the worker with a warrior and move a different warrior (2N2E for Paris) and scout (3N of Paris). I totally missed the AI do the dumbest thing ever! He attacked my worker poaching warrior, BUT ALSO SENT THE OTHER ARCHER INTO THE FOG! So Paris is there screaming "Take me!" I am out-of-town,talking to my wife on the phone, drink in hand, and I miss it! FREE CAPITOL! TAKE ME!
Spoiler :
What is most perplexing is why the non-attacking garrison archer left Paris.
what did you do!I've never seen that before.
Fierce competition!
I'm taking notes for Challenge 13-2
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jesusin, thank you very much for your detailed response!
I was very surprised by your low cottage count. I'm trying to include a high cottage count in all my cultural cities, except possibly for a Great Artist farm (here, I would probably build more farms to support more artists.
Regarding RLDV losses, I should know that the best defense against these is spreading every religion to all of one's cities and grow them to greater than 25% of the TAP religion, which can be hard when the founder spreads it widely. I even considered building TAP, but one does need another source of Great Prophet points and it provides only 4 Cpt on its own.
I'm guessing that one may need to come close to 1000 AD and use an early rush to win this gauntlet. My first four attempts were peaceful failures with 4 opponents. My fifth attempt has 7 opponents where two have settled quite close, making an early horse archer rush look very appealing. I plan to pursue it until time runs out (next update is published). After that, I will go back to playing game 8 of the Deity level Challenge Series.
Sun Tzu Wu
I was very surprised by your low cottage count. I'm trying to include a high cottage count in all my cultural cities, except possibly for a Great Artist farm (here, I would probably build more farms to support more artists.
Regarding RLDV losses, I should know that the best defense against these is spreading every religion to all of one's cities and grow them to greater than 25% of the TAP religion, which can be hard when the founder spreads it widely. I even considered building TAP, but one does need another source of Great Prophet points and it provides only 4 Cpt on its own.
I'm guessing that one may need to come close to 1000 AD and use an early rush to win this gauntlet. My first four attempts were peaceful failures with 4 opponents. My fifth attempt has 7 opponents where two have settled quite close, making an early horse archer rush look very appealing. I plan to pursue it until time runs out (next update is published). After that, I will go back to playing game 8 of the Deity level Challenge Series.
Sun Tzu Wu
I've submitted another game. I'll post details of it once it comes through onto the leaderboard.
Having tried it both ways, I think I agree with jesusin about cottages. If you don't force yourself to build and work them early, you can build more wonders. An extra 10
wonder is worth 80/turn with four cathedrals, and produces that a lot earlier than towns.
The advantage of cottages is that it lets you tech with a little less stress. There are also only a handful of wonders you can build.
Having tried it both ways, I think I agree with jesusin about cottages. If you don't force yourself to build and work them early, you can build more wonders. An extra 10
wonder is worth 80/turn with four cathedrals, and produces that a lot earlier than towns.The advantage of cottages is that it lets you tech with a little less stress. There are also only a handful of wonders you can build.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Don't know, I was never at risk on that front but I'd guess it might boil down to opponent choice.
My opponent pool in this gauntlet had always at least 2 religion fanatics, most of the time 3, ensuring enough missionary warfare to mitigate RLDV.
That's probably the info I was missing
, thanks! 
Absolutely normal. There's a Roleplaying-algorithm for the French in Civilization. Abandoning Paris follows a script.
Very interested in what pomthom will say towards this. He is French and played the French lately, but failed at roleplaying.
This definately means AI > pomthom, at least at roleplaying
Why does the Civ RNG always seem to screw the French?
You're right I suspect that the RNG has nothing to do with it and that roleplaying script exists Seraiel 
Mitchum
Deity
I have an authentic French rifle from WWII. It's never been fired and only dropped once!! Just kidding!Nice victory dates, guys.
It's interesting to see how the Culture victories are evolving over time. It went from 3 cottage cities and a GP Farm to 2 cottage cites + a GP farm to almost no cottages and a little warring mixed in. Are you planning to update your Culture guide, jesusin?Mitchum
Deity
1370 now has me in 6th
Seriously impressive dates going on for this one
Where do you guys see what place you're in? Can you only see the spots to own in the table on the HOF gauntlet page with the others being blank? All I see are 11 blank slots.
Some of the games are already in the HOF tables (the big ones on the first page) but not all of them. Does it take a few days for games to migrate to these big tables?
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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I still rely a lot on Cottages, and my results are definately on par with the ones of Jesusin, at least they were when comparing the last 3-5 games we played. There just comes a time, at which working Specialists is more efficient because Cottages need time to grow. I'm mostly speaking of Floodplains-Cottages being worth it though. The normal grassland-ones I also find too weak.
I think it also should be considered, that Pericles is PHI and that therefor, Specialists are a lot stronger, Mansa Musa i. e. would probably be very different there. And the Chariot-rush of WastinTime, truely, big GZ for pulling that off and producing an outstanding game, but seriously, without any form of envy, jealousy or anger:
1 Chariot = 30
1 Settler = 100
-> 1 Settler = 3.3 Chariots
-> 3 Settlers = 10 Chariots
-> 5 Settlers = 17 Chariots
Average attack Date of a Chariot-rush: Something like 2000 - 1500 BC.
Average AI-empire at that time: 4-6 cities, that have 2 Archers each = 8-12 Archers, some even behind Walls
17 Chariots < 12 Archers in 90%+ of the cases.
I think you're getting what I mean.
Maybe Horse-Archers would work better, even with those, Warfare is already hard enough most often, but they at least got twice the effective strength of a Chariot, and also can be 2pop-whipped.
Other possibility of course is to simply play xx games in order to achieve the same.
I hope noone feels offended by this.
And yes, Jesusin, update that guide whenever you find the time. Just don't expect any form of reward for it. Some good persons will notice, but most won't even care to remember your name, unless you are braiding it into the Guide, like:
1. Temples = Home of Jesusin
2. Cathedral = Workplace of Jesusin
"Now, you got to build Homes and Workplaces for Jesusin..."
I think it also should be considered, that Pericles is PHI and that therefor, Specialists are a lot stronger, Mansa Musa i. e. would probably be very different there. And the Chariot-rush of WastinTime, truely, big GZ for pulling that off and producing an outstanding game, but seriously, without any form of envy, jealousy or anger:
1 Chariot = 30
1 Settler = 100
-> 1 Settler = 3.3 Chariots
-> 3 Settlers = 10 Chariots
-> 5 Settlers = 17 Chariots
Average attack Date of a Chariot-rush: Something like 2000 - 1500 BC.
Average AI-empire at that time: 4-6 cities, that have 2 Archers each = 8-12 Archers, some even behind Walls
17 Chariots < 12 Archers in 90%+ of the cases.
I think you're getting what I mean.
Maybe Horse-Archers would work better, even with those, Warfare is already hard enough most often, but they at least got twice the effective strength of a Chariot, and also can be 2pop-whipped.
Other possibility of course is to simply play xx games in order to achieve the same.
I hope noone feels offended by this.
And yes, Jesusin, update that guide whenever you find the time. Just don't expect any form of reward for it. Some good persons will notice, but most won't even care to remember your name, unless you are braiding it into the Guide, like:
1. Temples = Home of Jesusin
2. Cathedral = Workplace of Jesusin
"Now, you got to build Homes and Workplaces for Jesusin..."
If you have a submission, your name will show in that list of 11 blanks (assuming you log in.)
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My fifth attempt has ended in failure. Peter DoWed this time.
Not sure I'll try another attempt as the deadline is approaching.
Sun Tzu Wu
Not sure I'll try another attempt as the deadline is approaching.
Sun Tzu Wu
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