Civilization Request Thread

Not sure if the mods allow this, but I already posted this in the Civilizations/Leaders wanted Thread, if it's not allowed I apologize and I ask the mods to delete this post.

Don't know if this is really a good idea , but hey, why not?

Anyways:
THE MALDIVES



This was the idea I had in mind:

Leader: Dhovemi of the Maldives, the first Sultan. (1141-1176)

UA: Foreign Great Works provide +1 additional point of Tourism .
Attols provide additional +2 Food , Gold and Production .

UB: Beach Resort: It provides +1 gold for every coast tile worked by this city and the usual bonuses provided by the Hotel which is replaced by this Building.




UU: Dhoni: A Work boat replacement with half the cost. Unlike the Work boat it can perform a ranged attack (Range:2 Ranged Attack :8 Combat:5 Movement:5).




Here's a map

Looks good. I may try to help in some way.

I wouldn't mind seeing another Scotland. I'm not sure what the focus could be since all that's leaping to my mind right now in the Highland Games....

Skaz881 said:

I wouldn't mind seeing another Scotland. I'm not sure what the focus could be since all that's leaping to my mind right now in the Highland Games....

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I honestly don't know how many more I can stand. There's a couple more interesting kingdoms in modern-day Scotland that I've been trying to get modders to do and I've even tried myself. (Dál Riata and Strathclyde)

There's more than one? I only knew of LS's Scotland.

At least three that I know of that are currently out.

Two of them haven't been updated for BNW though, which is one of the reasons I would like to see someone make one different from LastSword's (and with different colors, his look really close to America's to me).

Stephen, as you requested, I am starting a thread about a possibility of you or someone else creating a Civ5 mod of Byzantium led by 'Constantine the Great'. I've been pleading for someone to do this, and have tried myself. But I have not the knowledge or skill to do it. Sometime back, we had a thread going on another site and people were very enthusiastic about this possible mod.

Things I would like to see in this mod as incorporated in Krajen's (Byznatium's buff) mod.

1) Palace default defense set at 7.5 (Constantinople was a natural fortress, and was deemed unconquerable. It lasted over a 1000 years before it was.)
2) Palace default of 2 Faith

Special unit suggestion (Palatini Cavalry). The palatini were created by Constantine I after he disbanded the Praetorian Guard in AD 312. Also preferably a more later and stronger unit than the soon obsolete cataphracts.

Special building suggestion (Baths of Zeuxippus). The Baths of Zeuxippus were popular public baths in the city of Constantinople. The baths were famed primarily for the many statues that were built within, and the famous people they each represented. A possibility would be to add culture and happiness as attributes for this building.

And of course, special leader and war music!

The above are simply suggestions. Better ones may be thought of and created.

I wish I had the know how to build this civ mod, but I don't. Please consider building this mod. I will anxiously wait to play it!

I won't go into the disdain that I have for the present Byzantium Civ that has Theodora as leader. She was no friend to Christianity as she promoted heresy and polluted the mind of her husband, Justinian I, of their greatest general and one of the best generals in history in Flavius Belisarius. Belisarius was Justinian's good friend and most trusted advisor. Theodora was obsessed with the idea that their greatest general coveted the throne of her husband. But Belisarius had no aspirations of this and only wanted to command in the field. But Theodora through poisoning her husband's mind forced Belisarius to the sidelines.

In the book 'Justinian's Flea' by William Rosen, he has a quote that Theodora once was reported to have said, "One of my complaints with God is that he only gave me three orifices to put a cock." From her permissive past, this is indeed plausible.

No man in history of the world has influenced history and the culture of the world more than Constantine the Great. If not for him, Christianity may have died a slow death. He also enabled the Roman empire to last ages longer than it would have. I am surprised no one has created a civ mod in his honor to this date.

PS. I would also like to see a Justinian I mod. But I won't get greedy.

I hesitate to ask this, because I really don't want to start an internet fight, but if Theodora was no friend to Christianity, why is she an Orthodox saint according to civlopedia, which also states that she was Christian, just not Orthodox?

Skaz881 said:

I hesitate to ask this, because I really don't want to start an internet fight, but if Theodora was no friend to Christianity, why is she an Orthodox saint according to civlopedia, which also states that she was Christian, just not Orthodox?

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Theodora actually worked against her husband in unifying the Church.

Monophysitism is an error concerning the nature of Christ that asserts Jesus had only one nature, not two as is taught in the correct doctrine of the hypostatic union: Jesus is both God and man in one person. In monophysitism, the single nature was divine, not human. It is sometimes referred to as Eutychianism, after Eutyches 378-452, but there are slight differences. Monophysitism arose out of a reaction against Nestorianism which taught Jesus was two distinct persons instead of one. Its roots can even be traced back to Apollinarianism which taught that the divine nature of Christ overtook and replaced the human one.

Monophysitism was confined mainly to the Eastern church and had little influence in the West. In 451, the Council of Chalcedon attempted to establish a common ground between the monophysitists and the orthodox, but it did not work and divisions arose in the Eastern church which eventually excommunicated the monophysitists in the 6th century.

The denial of the human nature of Christ is a denial of the true incarnation of the Word as a man. Without a true incarnation there can be no atonement of sin for mankind since it was not then a true man who died for our sins. It was condemned as heresy at the Sixth Ecumenical Council in 680-681.

In her efforts to help the Monophysites, Theodora influenced the election of popes, provided refuge within the apartments of her palace for Monophysite leaders, and openly established a Monophysite monastery in Sycae, directly across the Golden Horn from Constantinople. She even influenced Justinian to appoint a Monophysite bishop for the pro-Monophysite Arab client state of the Ghassanids. By such efforts, Theodora was able to keep alive the fire of the Monophysite heresy in the eastern provinces of the Empire.

The Chalcedonians argued that Theodora fostered heresy and thus undermined the unity of Christendom.

There are many books about Byzantium, but one of the best is 'Justinian's Flea' by William Rosen. He is extremely critical of Theodora and her efforts to divide the Church. It's a fantastic read. I have read it twice.

Thank you for your response. Not being a Christian, I will admit that I don't really understand all of the differences in doctrines.

@roblrich
I guess I miscommunicated: I had meant to direct you to start a thread in the general section of the Civ5 Creation & Customization forum (as opposed to its sub-forums), not the Civ5 General Discussions forum. That's ok; the thread having been merged into the Civilization Request Thread works too. I enjoy reading books from the classical era, so I'm somewhat interested in the idea of adding new leaders to Byzantium or Rome (I think Constantine more properly would belong to Rome, as he reunified that empire even as he moved the capital to Byzantium). Creating a mod to replace the existing leader of either of those civs with a new leader would be a fairly straightforward, simple task from a coding perspective (which is the aspect of modding I can do), but to really make a quality leader mod requires good art, and I am not an artist. If anyone skilled in making 2D leader art sees this request and is willing to make some for either leader then I would be willing to put together a proper mod for them.

Another civ that would be nice to see is Egypt led by Cleopatra.

roblrich said:

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Almost certainly, since I doubt anyone else cares all that much. I mean, you're probably right, since Constantine dreaming a dream of time gone by (when Rome was high and Jesus living) and promptly making it the state religion of one of the more powerful empires of the world at the time can't have hurt the old icthys-followers all that much, but it's not exactly essential to our daily lives.

Facetiousness aside, the purpose of this thread is to make requests for new civilisations, not pontificate about how Theodora was the Byzantine version of Snidely Whiplash because she subscribed to a slightly different interpretation of a centuries-dead itinerant preacher from the arse-end of the Levant than you do. Make a thread of your own discussing a Justinian mod to replace the current Byzantium. Who knows, someone might even help you make it. They're a nice bunch here. You'd probably like them, if it wasn't for all the cartoons...

Scapegrace said:

They're a nice bunch here. You'd probably like them, if it wasn't for all the cartoons...

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Indeed, I have found the people to help with this mod. You are correct about people being very helpful.

As far as your comments about Theodora, they and her aren't worth defending. Firaxis must have been grasping for straws trying to get their established limit of female leaders for whatever political agenda they have. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO FORGIVEABLE EXCUSE TO USE THEODORA OVER JUSTINIAN I! Theodora was only his wife!

Maybe if Martha Washington had tried poisoning George's mind against his generals, against his religion, and actively tried to undermine both, Firaxis would have made her USA's leader instead of George.

But enough about Theodora. I hope someone does a Justinian I mod to replace her soon enough. In the mean time, I am looking so forward to this new 'Constantine the Great' mod.

roblrich said:

Firaxis must have been grasping for straws trying to get their established limit of female leaders for whatever political agenda they have. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO FORGIVEABLE EXCUSE TO USE THEODORA OVER JUSTINIAN I! Theodora was only his wife!

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Oh, I see. You don't like the idea of women being represented in positions of power and consider it part of some shifty political agenda (which differs from your own agenda by being one that benefits someone that isn't you). I think we're on the same page now.

Mods, if you're watching, feel free to delete this alleged conversation; it's completely off-topic for this thread and frankly it's descending into /pol levels of crazy.

Scapegrace said:

Oh, I see. You don't like the idea of women being represented in positions of power and consider it part of some shifty political agenda (which differs from your own agenda by being one that benefits someone that isn't you).

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Once again, you couldn't be more wrong. Plus this conversation is actually very on topic. We are talking about Civ mods and why or shouldn't certain leaders be used.

I have come to greatly respect Catherine II of Russia. Try reading 'Catherine the Great" by Robert K. Massie. Another great read. I actually listened to this book on audio. The narrator, Mark Deakins, does a great job.

Did you know Catherine ceased power from her inept husband, the grandson of Peter the Great? She did so by a coup only six months into her husband's feeble reign. Firaxix made a great choice for this Civ and leader.

I also think Maria Theresa of Austria was a good choice. Admittedly, I haven't studied her much, so I reserve the right to change my opinion.

And Isabella. Who could disagree with this choice? The USA has actually honored her with a postage stamp.

To learn more about Theodora and Justinian I, I suggest the following books which I have read all, don't rely on wiki's and civo pedias. I'll list them in order of relevance.

'Justinian's Flea' by William Rosen (I can't stress enough how interesting this book is)

'Sailing from Byzantium' by Colin Wells. (somewhat tedious)

'Theodora: Actress, Empress, Whore' by Stella Duffy (admittedly more sympathetic to Theodora)

AGAIN, my posts and comments are meant to relay that I feel Civ5 should have a civ5 mod that honors Byzantium with someone besides Theodora as leader and I listed my reasons why. Why someone attacks me for stating my opinion, I do not know. Again, it makes no more sense than having Martha Washington representing the U.S or Eva Braun for Germany.

Scapegrace said:

Oh, I see. You don't like the idea of women being represented in positions of power and consider it part of some shifty political agenda (which differs from your own agenda by being one that benefits someone that isn't you). I think we're on the same page now.

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There's a difference between saying that Theodora is a woman, and therefore shouldn't be represented in positions of power, and saying that hey, her husband was the actual ruler and actually did stuff like evict the Vandals from North Africa.

It would be like if instead of Catherine, Firaxis used Peter III.

Thank you for your response. Not being a Christian, I will admit that I don't really understand all of the differences in doctrines.

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I would recommend anyone interested in getting into the late-Roman, early-Western European medieval history (200-1000) to consider picking up the third edition of Roger Collins' Early Medieval Europe (300-1000).

Don't let the "300" get you, because the book bizarrely really starts around 250.

slightly different interpretation of a centuries-dead itinerant preacher from the arse-end of the Levant than you do.

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"Slightly different interpretation?"

People died over this. The "arse-end" of the Levant has been Alexandria since when? Alexandria was one of the major early Christian cities.

If you don't have a slight inkling of what actually happened during the time period, why are you acting as if you do?

And this is why I hesitated to ask. I didn't want to start an internet war. I was curious because I'd seen him attack Theodora on Steam and I wanted to know why.

I was wondering if any modders would be willing to create the civilizations from scramble for Africa?

Obviously some changes would be made like giving all the European nations a new UU to replace the explorer and possibly changing the leader screens.

I would love to see Belgium come into the game as well as more imperial like Euro civs.

I think it would be great to create a map of the world starting in the late 19th century. Yes I do know there is a version of this in Steam but I find that it needs a lot more done to it with new civs, but thats another story

Anyways if someone out there would at least be willing to create a couple of the civs with my help on any research I would be very grateful.