Thailand & Cambodia are awesome!

warpus said:

edit: oh great, I'm already seeing ads for Thai bridal dresses on other websites

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Well that should work great for the "Thai lady seeking marriage near me."

More Wat Sa Si

Students on a field trip sitting in the shade



The main attraction at Wat Sa Si







I spent about a half an hour here. It was pretty.



My bike had to stay off-island.

Beautiful Sukhothai Historical Park

On the way to the next temple of interest I ended up here:



A magical place.. with shade! And that might look like a lawn.. it's not.

Something that isn't an old stone building?

Eutrophication has never looked so lovely.

I knew that there was a fancy word I could use to describe the place.

Next stop is Chiang Mai, meaning a bit of a break from temples and such. After that though we're off to Siem Reap, Cambodia.. temple central

Wat Si Sawai

This temple is interesting because it likely was a Hindu temple before it was transformed into a Buddhist temple, and so it looks a bit unique.







Looking up

It's all so weathered. And yet a lot of it is intact.

Yeah.. Most of these temples look older than they are, so that adds to the effect, but this one is a bit older.. still, it was probably "only" built in the 12th-13th centuries, right before the Sukhothai kingdom was founded, so it isn't "ancient" either.

Tropical weather isn't good for preserving stuff.

And I remember that temple, the rooms under the towers were flooded when I was there.

taillesskangaru said:

Tropical weather isn't good for preserving stuff.

And I remember that temple, the rooms under the towers were flooded when I was there.

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Flooded, really?? I guess I was there during the dry season, so I don't tend to associate the place with rain at all, even though I do know there is a rainy season and all..

End of day 6

I really enjoyed biking around Sukhothai Historical park.











My last stop was a little market type area close to the main entrance.



It was only 2pm if you can believe it and I was starving. It was definitely time for lunch! There were several food vendors at the market, so I walked around a bit to see what's available and picked one with the most appetizing looking menu. I knew what I wanted well in advance: Sukhothai noodles.



So many interesting flavours all combined into one.. I devoured the food and ordered some Pad Thai.

Closer to the entrance I ran into many groups of students walking in formation. And it's weird photographing kids these days, so I tend not to even go there, but.. kids can be photogenic dammit!



I got out of the park, returned the bike, and figured I had time to check out Ramkhamhaeng National Museum, which had an interesting assortment of artefacts from the region.. Unfortunately I wasn't able to take pictures there.

On my way back to the city the small open-air bus I was on stopped by a school and filled with hundreds of children. Okay, maybe dozens, but the bus went from being me and a couple other backpackers to being completely packed with students. Every single imaginable space was filled with a student, including 3 guys who were hanging off the end, holding onto something or other.

Getting out wasn't easy, but eventually I was back at my guest house. I spent the rest of the day writing postcards, reading, surfing the web on the ipod touch that I brought, and of course drinking beers and eating more food. That was it for the day! I wasn't going to do anything else that involved walking or moving around. It was time to sit back and relax.

Those noodles look pretty good. I'm still kinda miffed by the missed opportunity with the roast duck.

Chiang Mai

On my first Saturday in the country I took a bus to Chiang Mai, the largest city in northern Thailand. The ride takes over 5 hours, even though it does not look to be that far away from Sukhothai, looking at the crappy map below. It's actually 300km (186 miles) away via road + this is the hilly and mountainous part of the country.



The city centre contains the old town surrounded by a moat which is about 1 and a half km (almost a mile) across.



I did not stay at imm hotel, there just isn't much out there in terms of good maps of the place. And the map does not indicate it, but there was water in the moat.

Here I am facing away from the old city, looking east. What you are looking at is one of the several bridges over the moat. There is a wall behind me going all the way around the old city as well.



We stopped for food during the bus ride, but the options were.. let's say.. somewhat limited. I had a lonely planet guide with me for reference's sake, so I started leafing through it on the bus, planning the feast that would unfold upon my arrival. I landed on an Indian place that claimed to have some of the best Indian food in all of Thailand. Bold claims, but I was willing to take the risk.

The Indian place (New Delhi) ended up being amazing. Probably not the best in Thailand, but very good. I bought a lot of food, including I remember incredibly delicious garlic cheese naan bread. There was also another appetizer, dipping sauces, and butter chicken. And Indian beer. And the people working at the place even looked Indian and probably were. It was perfect! I left a big tip and moved on.

It was already after 5pm though, so I didn't have much time to do anything proactive. I walked around the old city, booked some things, and took some pictures.

SS-18 ICBM said:

Those noodles look pretty good. I'm still kinda miffed by the missed opportunity with the roast duck.

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As soon as the duck was placed on the table I dug in. The same thing happened with the Indian food described above.

Those statues of Ganesh and what I suspect is Guanyin in post 80 are interesting. I suppose the Ganesh statue reflects a bit of the hindu legacy, and syncretism, in South-East Asia, I know there is a famous shrine to Brahma in Bangkok (where the statue got smashed a while back by a mentally disturbed person, who was killed soon afterwards by the angry mob iirc) and that the Thai King still employs Brahmins from india for various ritual duties.

Guanyin is very popular amongst the chinese, and there are plenty of chinese descended thai people. So that's why I'm hedging my bets that the female statue is of that Bodhisattva.

SE Asia was Hindu for a portion of its history, and the Buddhism practiced there is Theravada which had a much closer affinity with Hinduism and Hindu symbolism than the Mahayana Buddhism of China, Vietnam, Korea, or Japan. The Garuda is even a national symbol of Thailand. Many Thais are loathe to eat beef even if they eat other red meat.

Guanyin (I forget her Thai name) is not particularly prevalent in Thai Buddhism. I believe she is a Chinese import. Even where she is revered, she is forced into the Theravada cosmology of female inferiority. "She's" a man in drag, a transvestite - as if Thailand didn't have enough lady-boys already.

MilesGregarius said:

Guanyin (I forget her Thai name) is not particularly prevalent in Thai Buddhism. I believe she is a Chinese import. Even where she is revered, she is forced into the Theravada cosmology of female inferiority. "She's" a man in drag, a transvestite - as if Thailand didn't have enough lady-boys already.

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Guanyin (or Guan-Im in Thai) is very much associated with Sino-Thais, yes. But Sino-Thais for the most part are so assimilated anyway that generally Thais knows and venerates Guanyin in her female Chinese version, even though almost all (including most Sino-Thais) are technically Theravada Buddhists (and for the layman the distinction between different Buddhist schools is academic anyway)

taillesskangaru said:

Guanyin (or Guan-Im in Thai) is very much associated with Sino-Thais, yes. But Sino-Thais for the most part are so assimilated anyway that generally Thais knows and venerates Guanyin in her female Chinese version, even though almost all (including most Sino-Thais) are technically Theravada Buddhists (and for the layman the distinction between different Buddhist schools is academic anyway)

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On more than one occasion, I've had Thai monks insist to me that Guan-Im is actually a man dressed in drag. In its strictest interpretations, Buddhism teaches that to attain enlightenment, a woman must be reborn as a man. While many of the laity may accept Guan-Im as a woman, the official position of many Theravada teachers is that Guan-Im, as an enlightened being, must be a man.

Nor is she particularly prevalent in areas without significant Chinese influence. I cannot recall having ever seen her venerated in a Lao or Shan wat, nor have I seen her outside of major urban areas in Thailand. The only exception in my experience is Wat Santikhiri atop Doi Mae Salong, which is a central government-sponsored effort at Thai-ifying the formerly Guomintang (and largely Muslim) region, rather than an organic manifestation of devotion by the locals.

The distinction between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism is far from academic. They are similar enough to be mutually recognizable as having common roots, but they are different enough that the practices of one are nigh unrecognizable to most laymen of the other. This is especially so in the Buddhism practiced throughout (rural) Thailand, Lao, and Shan State (and, I would assume, Cambodia and the rest of Burma.) Theravada Buddhism in the region is so suffused with Thai/Lao/Shan folk religion that it is these folk elements that are most essential to the laity's daily spiritual experiences.

MilesGregarius said:

Theravada Buddhism in the region is so suffused with Thai/Lao/Shan folk religion that it is these folk elements that are most essential to the laity's daily spiritual experiences.

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I know they have Nat worship in Burma, my knowledge on Thai folk religion however is minimal save only that I know (via a thai associate) that there are spirit houses where spirits (Phi) are propitiated and shamans (Mo Phi) around the place. I would hazard a guess Lao folk religion is very similar to the regional practices in the neighbouring parts of Thailand.

MilesGregarius said:

Nor is she particularly prevalent in areas without significant Chinese influence. I cannot recall having ever seen her venerated in a Lao or Shan wat, nor have I seen her outside of major urban areas in Thailand.

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She is prevalent in certain areas of the South. Chinese influence is generally speaking stronger in the South than in the North, so maybe that's why.

(My family are Southerners, so my experiences are biased towards that region)

And yes, you're right in that strict therevada monks wouldn't have anything to do with Guan-Im at least the female mahayana version. Generally speaking where she is venerated it's often not in wat buildings themselves but in a separate shrine. It's popular religion not unlike elements of folk religion in various other regions of Thailand.

The distinction between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism is far from academic. They are similar enough to be mutually recognizable as having common roots, but they are different enough that the practices of one are nigh unrecognizable to most laymen of the other.

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That's not merely a result of therevada/mahayana divide though. As you said very correctly folk religion played a huge role in people's religious experience and by their nature these are (generally) localised, so even if all the monasteries subscribe to the same school actual religious practice on the ground still varies between different regions. That's not even accounting for the different practices of different monasteries or monastic traditions, despite the best efforts of the governing bodies, which are usually national in nature (as opposed to pan-Theravada, or pan-Buddhist).