America: Write Your Own History

Oh joy a political debate. Those always end well.

Pliped said:

Since we are having a good old debate I thought I share some thoughts so they can get brutally torn down.

What I consider socialism to be is based on my experiences as a Brit and so this may differ from your own opinion but its core values; some nationalized industries (energy, post service, railways and maybe steel?), a well sized welfare state with unemployment and disability benefits, a more progressive tax system although this is now a common feature in most countries. Generally a commitment to social equality and prosperity for the many rather than the few.
I believe the civics and general actions of Debs fit socialism very well.

A shift towards communism would require imo either an outright rejection of socialism which would lead to some socialists becoming more radical and opposed to the existing political system and I presume the influence exerted over the system by big business. OR quite a few years of socialism with the political goalposts moved more to the left and so that Communists and radical socialists become considered more "normal", similar how in the US nearly all the parties are more right wing and the tea party can somehow be considered a serious political force.

If Debs did shift into full on Communist mode then I can see either his assassination, a supreme court/congress opposition or complete rejection at the polls. As previously mentioned by Citis I would expect some radical members of his party start to appear talking about state property if he is successfully reelected.

But after the success of his first term and in the belief that there will be no further drift to the left Eugene V. Debs gets my vote. Would like to see a Teddy presidency though.

Click to expand...

your wrong. but in a way you are right as the west as confused the terms communism and socialism a great deal

Socialism is the state owned system instated ofter capitalism has been overthrown/withered away. it is the transitory stage to communism. communism, is the utopia created after a socialist state's government has withered away and everyone is free, happy, and has everything they could ever need.

the definition above is the one written by marx. after lenin and friends showed up and the west had it's "red terror", the terms got quite mixed up. obviously the USSR wasn't a utopia. It also wasn't really socialist, but that's another story.

so by no means were you wrong or right, it's just the definition has really been screwed over used wily nilly to describe anything the one saying wanted to the point of having a new definition in some places.

for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Royal Tenenbaum said:

Yes, it can. Look at Europe. Not to mention, -yes I can-, because I did. And the game lets me. Communists appear around the 30s

Click to expand...

Imp. Knoedel said:

Lolwat was the fall of communism in the 19th century?

Click to expand...

I know RT's quote wasn't answered by Imp. Knoedel's, but both were brought here to remind me and all others we may have difficulties saying what has happened in RL, and what is happening in the game.

USSR FELL before 1900s

We are already using Tanks for some time (and we have just crossed the century)

The President was already broadcasted on TV! Let me guess the car was then created in the mid of XIXth century then? Sorry Ford, you came too late, they already created your Model T.

And if things keep the way they are, in 1950 this game will already be over (we make techs in 3 turns, and we are almost in the end). With Nukes, Spaceships, Future Tech.

Communists in the 30s and fall of communism in the XIXth century just don't go well with each other.

BTW, fall of communism in part, it seems we have a Communist Kingdom in England, because of course England has to be a monarchy, even with the most ilogical combination of political beliefs and ideas. So Communism is still falling, but it may get to america.

judging from experience(in doc and what he did irl), Stalin was probably running feudalism and slavery with state property, and that's not communism, just a state-controlled economy

Moai_Spammer said:

judging from experience(in doc and what he did irl), Stalin was probably running feudalism and slavery with state property, and that's not communism, just a state-controlled economy

Click to expand...

That would have been a good information in this big story. Everyone here thinks USSR was the USSR de facto, but if he did what you say, then we just had a United Slaveowners of Sinister Russia

Together with the United Socialist Kingdom of Britain

ales_ said:

What about William Howard Taft?

Click to expand...

If Teddy wasn't president yet he wouldn't have made Taft the famous politician he was.

(New record with 18 voters)

-moved-

Damn! 20% of my total of 120% (envy me weaklings, my vote counts as 120% of a vote ) went to that joke of a ku klux klan farmer.

Good he didn't win though

And I'm extremely honored that RT considers me 120% of a voter, making me more important then everyone else!

1908-1912: Age of Self-Determination



Upon Eugene V. Debs' landslide re-election, President Debs set out to secure the nation's natural resources. Within months, he passed bills that protected water, hills, forests, mountains, valleys, wildlife, air quality, and even set up the Department of the Environment. This led to a dramatic drop in happiness from people, as both people and businesses now had to be self-conscious of their actions' impact on nature. Pollution was cut in half by the end of his second term. In order to combat unhappiness, Debs spent large amounts of state funds supporting the arts by building broadcasting towers and theaters.


With American forces bombing the outskirts of India and capturing Burma, Britain's top general prepared a defensive tactic to repel the invasion of Hyderabad. With a combination of SEAL divisions, air bombing, naval bombarding, and overall a larger force, the city was captured without problem. The news of Britain's top general falling without making much of a difference against the invading force led to a nationwide panic. Mahatma Gandhi rose to popularity during this time for his peaceful protesting of Britain. The economy, the protests, and the mass panic after the amphibious invasion of Hyderabad led to the collapse of the government, and the ending of the Edwardian War. King Edward was brought to court in America, and the aging and unhealthy king, weakened by decades of cigar smoking at the age of 68, pleaded guilty to crimes against humanity and was stripped of his large executive power. Britain was rebuilt as a parliamentary democracy, and King Edward would die before being able to return to his England palace. King George would succeed him.




Debs would continue the military campaign in India in order to speed up development of India, which Debs hoped would become a strong American friend in the area and a representative for Hindu ideologies. The reconstruction of Sri Lanka was also enacted and promptly given independence. Burma would be gifted to Sri Lanka as a gift, allowing the newly formed government to gain experience in territorial management.



Yemen, the former British territory, was also taken by large American tank divisions and the region was gifted to Arabia.


In January 1910, work on the Suez Canal had begun under Debs' executive order and highly supported by all parties in Congress. The feat was applauded by the world, as this greatly shortened time it took for trade by sea from Asia to Europe. It was after the completion of the canal, in July, that some crazed looking schmuck declared that America "dominated" the world. This conspiracy theory was quickly hushed by the government.



The rest of the year, with troops returning to America and war ending in most parts of the world (except for a war between Morocco, Germany, and France as Morocco declared independence from Portugal), Debs decided to aid Mexico in constructing a railroad from Panama, through Mexico City, to San Antonio.




With the science rate lowered to 10, most state funds was being spent on socialist, cultural programs, projects, and incentives. Debs' approval rating skyrocketed, and unhappiness and pollution seemed to be a problem of the past as green energy and the arts flourished. Diplomacy was succeeding at levels higher than ever before seen; by the end of the term, all nations had signed an open borders agreement with the United States, and world leaders were all pleased with the Socialist President -- half of them were downright friendly!



In January 1912, American troops had returned from India. Weeks of festivals and celebrations ruled the entire coast, with celebrities and politicians giving warm welcomes to the returning veterans.



After the military's return, Debs began pulling away troops stationed abroad, and selling large amounts of foreign land. Egypt was given its independence, along with Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. The Suez Canal was leased to the Arabs along with Kuwait and Oman; an act which gave them incentive to drop the client state status with England.


"

Debs ended his second term by passing through Congress a bill that gave independence to Mali, Korea, Thailand, and Persia. World competition seemed to be drawing to an end. Happiness and environmentalism reigned over all parts of the nation, and imperialism began ending. The world loved America, and Americans used their large incomes to travel the world and live out the final years of the American Golden Age. Furthermore, the nation was stabilizing. Stability had lowered to -23, and with a large amount of American territories being gifted at the end of Debs' second term, analysts believed stability would see positive numbers in the next administration.

I recognize that picture of the soldier kissing that lady from a book i once read.
I think he was either a world war 2 veteran or vietnam war veteran

Impressive.

So, the game will continue, won't it?

If RT continued in-game after he had won, I suppose he would likely continue elections out-of-game.

"And they lived happily every after"......

This was just so perfect ! India's independent, strong and socialist. America is leaving the world in peace instead of trying to pick up everything for itself ! Welfare and socialism rules in the US. Stability improves, the golden age continues. Everything is juuuust right ^_^ . Debs will get a third term now. Unless some redneck republican decides to murder him ... leading to nationwide riots against the right wing parties and their supporters :O .

What can i say? Just

The game'll continue, yeah. I might actually go back a few saves and try not to win the domination victory so I don't have the annoying music playing and the message constantly shown.

DKVM said:

I recognize that picture of the soldier kissing that lady from a book i once read.
I think he was either a world war 2 veteran or vietnam war veteran

Click to expand...

World War II after VJ day.

Election of 1912: A Post-Imperial World

Socialist Party
Eugene V. Debs, Age 57, Current President. Famous for his eloquent oration. Improved the economy, stabilized the nation, increased socialist programs, lowered pollution, improved foreign relations, and won the Edwardian War efficiently while giving independence to foreign American territories. If re-elected, will continue focusing on maintaining good foreign relations, improving domestic programs, and maintaining political balance through small military operations.

Bill Haywood, Age 43, Union Leader and Social Activist. As a leading figure in the more radical branch of the Socialist Party, he wishes to move the nation towards a more communist utopia, but states this would require increased executive power. Wants to support nations in becoming socialist/communist, and would use espionage or bribes to achieve this. Supports war with Germany to free Poland and liberate Paris and Moscow, and supports reconstructing Russia.


Progressive Party
Theodore Roosevelt, Age 54, Secretary of the Navy, Governor of New York, Republican political reformer, explorer, historian, and former Vice-President. Famously noted for his enthusiasm and integrity. Popular for fighting corruption and reforming the police in New York. Fought with a small group of cavalry in the Spanish-American War. Reformed the navy's production to allow for more efficient construction. As governor, held twice-daily conferences to be connected with the people. No longer adamantly against socialism, he wishes to actively rebuild nations through larger military operations than Debs. Wishes to publicize his explorations of the Amazon and Africa in order to improve American pride.


Republican Party
Robert M. La Follette, Age 57, Wisconsin Representative, Senator, and Governor. Supports environmentalism, but wishes to return the United States to a more capitalist nation by removing many socialist programs and thus lessening the tax burden. Wants to lessen influence of United Nations and leave several aspects of government to a democratic vote, such as imperialism and diplomacy.


Democratic Party
Woodrow Wilson, Age 55, President of Princeton University and New Jersey Governor. Afraid of radicalism of the Socialist movement, we wishes to enforce the constitution to prevent candidates from running who intent to create a state economy or become autocratic. He believes in a world democracy and wants to maintain good diplomacy, but also wants to extend American imperialism as the American stability improves. His plans are to rebuild Spain and Vietnam, rebuild Russia, and war against Germany as they are increasingly imperialist; having captured Paris and making Poland a vassal state. He worries that another world war will break out if interventionist policies are not taken.

Judson Harmon, Age 68, Attorney General and Governor of Ohio. His views are similar to Wilson's, but he opposes breaking up Italy and Thailand to rebuild Spain and Vietnam. Instead, he supports a more focused war with Germany to free Poland and liberate Paris and Moscow. He also believes in American exceptionalism, and would refuse any world agreements if it weakened the United States.


Campaign News:
Debs Wins Third Term

With a divided opposition, the Socialist Party wins with 51.5% of the popular vote.

Ballot:
Socialist Party 10.2
•Debs 7.2
•Haywood 3

Progressive Party 4.2
•Roosevelt 4.2

Republican Party 0.2
•La Follette 0.2

Democratic Party 4.2
•Wilson 4.2