New Patch Incoming!

Are these complete transformation of wonder abilities or additions?

Reading between the lines of programming bugs, omissions, and tendencies is like how the Terminator was written lol

PhilBowles said:

I'd need to be more interested in the game to care much about specific fixes to buildings or virtues. With that in mind, this seems to be a rather limited patch in which the only substantial change that will improve general gameplay is linking trade routes to population.

Looks as though they're just piggybacking a rather minor set of changes onto their "definitely no expansion coming - we're doing this instead" coding to 'integrate' BE with Starships.

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Notice no explanation of this 'integration' so far. What does that even mean? We're going to 'integrate' two games?

Hinkle2K said:

FWIW, the my2K thing is literally just an email address and password. It's pretty painless and you get a free map to boot!

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys. The devs see this stuff so keep it coming!

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You guys really need to do something about your website. It's virtually unusable.

Ryika said:

I'm a big fan of being forced to register for additional accounts, because hey, we all know, you can never have enough accounts and passwords to manage. NOT.

So now that the negativity is out of the way... :>

...that patch sounds like a lot of fun. With some Exceptions the Wonders actually sound like they can now support interesting strategies that may not be the "fastest way to victory", but at least become somewhat viable. -> Love it.

Trade Routes: Yes, good idea, though I really wonder how many trade routes that will be. If we suddenly have 6 trade routes per city, then that will become REALLY annoying during war. And it doesn't seem they change anything about the way the trade route yields work now, so meh.

Some of the most annoying bugs getting fixed is great.

And the fact that they don't do anything against that "Rush to victory" that starts in the middle of the game, really sucks.

But overall I'm really looking forward to this.

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Agreed.

I wonder how the trade route to pop size changes the tall v wide dynamic...
the more I read the thread, the more ninjas I feel like space station.

Gort said:

Just 'cause I had no idea what it did:

Applied Aesthetics: Earn extra energy equal to 30% of the culture you generate.

How incredibly underwhelming a virtue that was. I can see why they'd want to replace it with something virtually useless.

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Applied Aesthetics was actually OK. It could be a viable alternative to going into Industry and keep you financially afloat. It's biggest drawback was that it besically cost 2 virtues because it required the useless Creative Class.
The new one looks completely worthles, but if they increase intrigue generation to a degree that countrintelligence actually matters, it could also be useful. Still requires you to waste a point for Creative Class.
Now, if they change Creative Class to the old Applied Aesthetics effect, I could consider the weaker path of Knowledge fixed.

I can't say i have followed Civ 5 / BE but delight at a free map?

What is the world coming to? it's like be sold a car without any doors then being happy that you got a free door...

Sprig said:

I can't say i have followed Civ 5 / BE but delight at a free map?

What is the world coming to? it's like be sold a car without any doors then being happy that you got a free door...

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I'd say more like getting a car and being happy that they'll give you coupons for a free oil change for signing up for the newsletter.

If you haven't followed the games, why are making an analysis that's negative? Surely that means you're aware of the games in some context?

Free content is free content. There's nothing bad about it, given that people have bought the game. If you haven't bought the game, then surely it's not even a debatable point?

I'm mostly happy with the changes. The wonders look much better for the most part. I don't like the Applied Aesthetics change. I'm happy to see the trade route change. Also glad that canyons are not useless tiles anymore. It annoys me given how common they are on many of the map types.

I also like that they lowered the required intrigue level for affinity covert ops. At the moment they are kind of useless. I hope they reduce the base difficulty for them as well. Currently they have a base difficulty of 70 compared to the coup base difficulty of 60 meaning they are less likely to work and more likely to get you caught and possibly killed.

Gene Vault seems very powerful now and like something I might try to go for every game.

PhilBowles said:

Looks as though they're just piggybacking a rather minor set of changes onto their "definitely no expansion coming - we're doing this instead" coding to 'integrate' BE with Starships.

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Did I miss this in a livestream? I figured they'd eventually do an expansion or two even if not right away.

oakdragon said:

You guys really need to do something about your website. It's virtually unusable.

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This. I was reading it on their website and when I noticed the thread here that tab was immediately closed.

Domination victory is now won by controlling all original player capitals including your own.

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How did this work before? I thought that was the definition of domination...

Also I wonder when they will finally fix domination for team matches. I just recently "won" a team match via domination and was disappointed to find that the game doesn't acknowledge it. (For those who don't know Domination is impossible to achieve because the game requires you to capture your teammate's capital which is impossible under most circumstances given you can't go to war with each other or trade away your capital.)


Overall these changes look really good. I'm glad to see another patch coming out.

First and foremost, I am excited to see Wonders worth building in BE. However I would like Firaxis to stop slashing and burning the trade/energy mechanic. I no longer use external trade routes after they inverted the formula because I prefer not to always get the short end of the trade stick to 'balance the game.' So I don't expect that 'population based trade routes' will be a trade buff givent heir past trajectory of punishing strong economies.

zellfaze said:

How did this work before? I thought that was the definition of domination...

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If I am not mistaken, domination used to be more of a "last capital standing" victory where you win if you are the only civ that has not lost their capital. I always thought that was dumb. I am glad that they are changing domination to what it should be.

For those who want to compare the current effects of the wonders with the new effects of the wonders, I've gone ahead and looked them all up.

- Xenodrome

New: Provides a small positive influence to alien opinion each turn, and negative alien opinion recovers twice as quickly
Old: +4 Energy, +4 Science, 1 free Xeno Sanctuary in production city​

- Panopticon

New: Gives +1 unit sight and +5 anti-orbital strike range on city
Old: +1 Culture, +1 sight range for combat units​

- Mass Driver

New: Gives +1 city strike range and +25% city strike damage
Old: +5 Range for Anti-Orbital Strike, +25% City strength​

- Gene Vault

New: Gives free worker to new cities
Old: +4 Food, +1 Culture, 10% Food Growth in all cities​

- Ectogenesis Pod

New: Gives 1 Food per 4 pop in its city
Old: +3 Food, +3 Production, +1 Food for all farms​

- Quantum Computer

New: Gives free orbital unit maintenance and +50% orbital unit duration
Old: +5 Science, 1 free technology​

- Drone Sphere

New: Gives +50% speed to worker builds and explorer expeditions
Old: +2 Science, +10 Healing for all combat units in friendly territory, Provides 1 free Surveillance Web in production city​

- Cynosure

New: Gain +1 Science for every 3 population in its city
Old: +7 Science, Combat Unit max-veterancy +1 slot​

- Ansible

New: Affinity XP is gained 25% faster
Old: +4 Energy, +4 Science, Provides 1 free Feedsite Hub in the production city​

- Stellar Codex

New: +8 Orbital Coverage range
Old: +3 Science, +10% Production towards Orbital units, +4 range for Orbital Coverage​

- Master Control

New: Free Maintenance and +1 Movement for Workers
Old: +1 Culture, +1 Movement for Workers, 1 free Network in production city​

- Precog Project

New: Military Units can achieve two additional levels of Veterancy
Old: +2 Culture, +2 Health, +15% Combat Strength in friendly tiles​

- Human Hive

New: City immune to Covert Operations
Old: +3 Production, Maximum Covert Ops Intrigue for production city decreased by 4​

- Holon Chamber

New: Gain Science equivalent to 10% of global Energy income each turn
Old: +3 Science, +4 Energy​

- Archimedes Lever

New: Any hostile unit within 2 tiles of the city suffers 10 attrition damage per turn
Old: +4 Production, +1 Culture, +50 City Defense​

- Memetwork

New: All Affinity Level requirements for buildings, units, and wonders reduced by 1
Old: +4 Culture, +2 Health, +20% Culture in City​

- New Terran Myth

New: +2 Culture from Trade Routes
Old: +4 Culture​

- Markov Eclipse

New: Military Units attack at full strength even when damaged
Old: +4 Science, +1 Culture, Combat Unit experience +50%​

- Promethean

New: City no longer produces Unhealth
Old: +2 Culture, +4 Health, Free Virtue​

- Nanothermite

New: All air, ranged, and city bombard attacks 25% stronger
Old: +4 Energy, +30 City Defence​

- Xenomalleum

New: +5 Titanium, Petroleum, and Geothermal resource
Old: +7 Energy, +2 Energy for all Generators​

- Xenonova

New: Penalties due to Unhealth reduced by 50%
Old: +7 Food, +2 Health​

- Bytegeist

New: All Virtue Tier synergy bonuses require one less point to complete
Old: +2 Science, +4 Culture, -15% Culture cost for Virtues​

- Armasail

New: City suffers 50% less damage from ranged attacks
Old: +4 Production, +100 City HP​

- Deep Memory

New: +1 Culture for every 3 Population in every City
Old: +7 Culture, 2 Free Virtues​

- Tectonic Anvil

New: +5 Production from Canyons
Old: +9 Production​

- Crawler

New: +25% Production for buildings and wonders
Old: +1 Culture, +25% Production for wonders​

- Daedelus Ladder

New: All City Yields +10%
Old: +2 Food, +3 Health​

- Resurrection Device

New: Benefits from positive Health effects increased by 50%
Old: +8 Health​

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Based off of this I'd make a guess that several of the wonders also get to keep the yields that they provided initially. For example, I posit that Archimedes Lever likely still gives production, but wonders like Tectonic Anvil probably do not anymore.

- General cost pass on all Wonders

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I'd say all this talk about how some wonders really are weaker now comes down to this: Yes it's true but since they're also cheaper that's nothing to be surprised about, right?
I mean, of course a lot of wonders are pretty bad as of now - but there are also a couple that are not so bad or even nice. Now if you cut the cost of every wonder by, let's say, 33% and replace all the wonder abilities... Then you'd want to give all wonders new and balanced powers, right? So if the wonder was weak before the new balanced power will be stronger than their old one. And if the wonder was alright before the new balanced power might not be stronger, it might even be weaker to adjust for the lower production costs.

What I'm more worried about is that while I really welcome the wonder changes I don't feel it will make this much of a difference. As long as the mid to endgame still is a direct beeline to affinity 13 a wonder that sits on a "bad tech" has to be worth the tech detour. I just don't see that, sadly. So "Hurray!" for all the wonder in better spots on the tech web, they might make things more interesting. Outer leaf wonders without affinity would have to be _really_ good though to make me tech them.
Then again a lot of people are not going for the efficient affinity-only-beeline. Which - strength of strategy aside - will mean they might actually get to build the wonders and have fun with them even if I wont.

LORD ORION said:

"Additional gameplay balance changes were made" blah blah blah "in response to systems reported as too powerful"

"Virtues: Replaced Applied Aesthetics virtue with Applied Metasociology virtue - City Intrigue decreases faster when an Agent is present"

This made me shoot coffee out of my nose... I would have love to heard how this decision came about...

"We've got to stop African Union Players from rushing to Applied Aesthetics with their free Earth Relics in every city" *fist shake*

Sorry... I just wonder how these guys are playing sometimes... *snort laugh*

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The same way they gave us v1.0 or patch 1 TR/AU.

I mean I'm happy for them working on it but they should seriously think about making beta tests if they need the community to point issues.

I mean do people really have trouble with their intrigue levels ?

I'm confused about wonders.

I don't dislike the changes they're making, but damn does this ever feel like it's a day forever late and a dollar all the dollars short. It's nice that they realized they need to fix wonders and change trade routes (again) but this probably won't be enough to make me reinstall the game. Trade routes per pop is a nice idea, but if yields from those trade routes are still silly and abusable I'm less enthused by the concept. Making me remember wonders are in the game is nice and all, but it's not like that's such a big selling point I'm going to forget about the boring victory conditions, bland factions/leaders, and the nerfed-into-oblivion affinity units that all made me want to uninstall in the first place. On an even lower note you can colour me unimpressed if it took them this long to fix bugs to basic systems like that whole thing where you couldn't trigger affinity quests beyond the first few (haven't checked, maybe that got hot fixed while I wasn't playing). But hey, if it's quarterly patches maybe the game will be mostly playable by winter or spring 2016 (assuming it isn't abandoned entirely to work on starships by then that is)?

Also, what's this my2k thing? More accounts on top of my steam account? Guess I won't bothering with starships then. Maybe that's petty of me but I have a hard time believing whatever benefits this has can't be achieved through steam in a vastly less annoying/intrusive manner.

Steam is not the be-all-and-end-all of digital platforms, nor is it always convenient to work with. Personally, I approve of any alternate systems because they introduce another element of competition into the marketplace. Valve have been sitting on their laurels for too long.

PhilBowles said:

I'd need to be more interested in the game to care much about specific fixes to buildings or virtues. With that in mind, this seems to be a rather limited patch in which the only substantial change that will improve general gameplay is linking trade routes to population.

Click to expand...

Depends on your definition of improvement. Making wonders something you might actually want to build is a vast improvement, in my mind.

Looks as though they're just piggybacking a rather minor set of changes onto their "definitely no expansion coming - we're doing this instead" coding to 'integrate' BE with Starships.

Click to expand...

"Rather minor," forsooth. What, pray tell, would a rather major set of changes be, just so we can establish a baseline for comparison?

Gorb said:

Steam is not the be-all-and-end-all of digital platforms, nor is it always convenient to work with. Personally, I approve of any alternate systems because they introduce another element of competition into the marketplace. Valve have been sitting on their laurels for too long.

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The alternative of "we're going to have our own special clubhouse for all our friends and no one else because reasons" instead of working within the current framework to improve an already good system is not an improvement or particularly desirable by any stretch of the imagination. If steam "isn't always convenient to work with" I'd like to know how exactly you think adding another layer of inconvenience is likely to make everything more convenient as a whole? By all means I'm not getting an origin/uplay vibe out of this, and don't expect them to do anything silly like that (I'm boycotting 2k if this is the start of their own digital distribution platform though), but this does sound vaguely "games for windows"y to me, and it's going to take a lot to convince me that sort of thing adds anything to the experience at all, or can't just be accomplished within steam without the extra hassle.

Bandobras Took said:

Depends on your definition of improvement. Making wonders something you might actually want to build is a vast improvement, in my mind.

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After thinking about it, the wonder changes seem extremely out of whack.

eg: Cynosure is junk, It's looking like a waste hammers in place of plain old +sci output for a few turns.

Genevault looks too good. Totally imbalances multiplayer. Especially when people chase it and lose the race.