SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Amsterdam has just as much food as Argos.
One could be super GP farm and other could be a monster globe theatre city.
Drama instead of Literature hmm
Fish City up north will have a dedicated worker built from Corinth already, but getting a 2nd would be troublesome.
We could make yet another worker from Corinth I suppose, or pull one from Mycenae, but it would be nice if Iron showed up somewhere else.
The official Turn 85 test game is HERE if anyone wants to experiment from scratch.
One could be super GP farm and other could be a monster globe theatre city.
Drama instead of Literature hmm
The save looks good. Some suggestions:
Could we road the GHill 2W of Sparta, instead of 1S2W?
Oh! What a great idea.
Spoiler :
Are Odeons necessary in Sparta and Corinth? :
Sparta certainly needs the odeon.
I'll check Corinth again, but I seem to recall it being unhappy for a few turns if it didn't get built.
Spoiler :
Can Argos 3-pop whip a Settler > Worker?
Argos is a bit delicate after so much whipping.
It is at max happy cap at pop 5 and needs to work two scientists.
If we don't mind waiting until turn 98 or 99, we can 3-pop whip a settler into a mostly complete worker and grow back to Size 5 in 2 turns to keep working scientists.
Then both worker and settler can be dropped off to settle sheep.
Spoiler :
----
If you want to free up some Worker turns, I might skip chopping the Forest in Sparta. This is our best Heroic Epic site at present, if we can skip Isabella's first objective, and the Forest hammers would help build that.
Sure, this forest can easily be skipped in favor of Knossos development.
Instead of the worker chopping Sparta's forest, can easily send it to road Knossos turn 92 instead sure.
Fish City up north will have a dedicated worker built from Corinth already, but getting a 2nd would be troublesome.
We could make yet another worker from Corinth I suppose, or pull one from Mycenae, but it would be nice if Iron showed up somewhere else.
The official Turn 85 test game is HERE if anyone wants to experiment from scratch.
The problem is that both Lit and Drama are useless in short term. Theaters with Dye is a good reason in the long term, but Drama might also be available for trade later. I can't see the situation of building the Globe Theater since Drafting also need to switch to Nat. Moreover, most of our SOD for intercontinental war would be Seige + the left veteran units, not drafted units. One day if there's a deity SGOTM lacking of horse, the Globe Theater might show its value.
There are two issues here: (1) is it worthwhile to build the Globe Theater; (2) is it worthwhile to switch into Nationalism during a Golden Age?The problem is that both Lit and Drama are useless in short term. Theaters with Dye is a good reason in the long term, but Drama might also be available for trade later. I can't see the situation of building the Globe Theater since Drafting also need to switch to Nat. Moreover, most of our SOD for intercontinental war would be Seige + the left veteran units, not drafted units. One day if there's a deity SGOTM lacking of horse, the Globe Theater might show its value.
It is easy to demonstrate that it is a worth switching into Nationalism for 5–7 turns.
If you consider our capital in SGOTM19... on T120 it generates 62
in a Golden Age. Bureaucracy adds 50%, i.e. 31:Spoiler :
Bureaucracy has high upkeep, Nationalism no upkeep. If we switch civics, costs change:
Spoiler :
26
is saved. If we pause research during those turns, switching out of Bureaucracy costs –12GPT (31*1.25 - 26). Once we return to Bureaucracy, we turn research back on.
Now apply this to our present save in 30–40 turns: we will have fewer Towns/Villages, no Academy, but more riverside tiles and trade routes. The situation will be roughly comparable. Some commerce is lost, but not much.
-----
Meanwhile, drafting Maces or Muskets, saves approx. 1-pop per unit. Think about the
contribution of any 1-tile island cities:Spoiler :
How many of these will have Forges at the time that we attack?
Swords die frequently when fighting yellow-lined Medieval defenders, and Axemen die attacking anything but red lined units. For every Galleon and 2 Trebuchets we build, we need 1.5 Macemen or Muskets. If you can draft from fringe cities, the economic impact upon the core is far less severe and it is far easier to produce an army in a short period.
---
As for #1: "should we build the Globe Theater?" this depends upon the long-term function of Argos. With the Globe, it is the best source of
in the game. Without the Globe, it is the best source of 
whenever we are in Caste.edit: I'm happy to stick with Lit. > Drama btw.
points in Argos are going to be needed to outpace Sparta and Corinth.If we ever want to draft, we can do so across multiple cities.
I checked this, and you're right: the Settler would be too slow and Sparta's GProphet is on the horizon.
Spoiler :
We should probably limit whipping after your set (from T96 forth) in Argos and Thebes, to reduce whip anger and grow a bit before any GA:
Spoiler :
Argos @ size 10 could run 7 Great People without starving, and Thebes 4 Great People @ size 6.
The happy cap would let Thebes reach size 6 easily enough, but Argos is stuck at size 8 before Monarchy/extra happy resources.
@Doshin
When I mentioned Nat, I meant the tech Nat more than the civic cost. We will start intercontinental war ~5 turns after getting Astronomy. Nat usually won't be available.
We should have 10~15 left veteran units, plus 5~10 better units and ~10 siege units, this SOD would be the 1st wave, 2nd wave and reinforcements would be mostly siege units. Therefore we don't need to produce too many non-siege units in this game. 40 units are usually enough to deal with 1 immortal AI and we won't attack multiple AIs as in a conquest race.
Therefore, I don't see the situation that we need to draft
When I mentioned Nat, I meant the tech Nat more than the civic cost. We will start intercontinental war ~5 turns after getting Astronomy. Nat usually won't be available.
We should have 10~15 left veteran units, plus 5~10 better units and ~10 siege units, this SOD would be the 1st wave, 2nd wave and reinforcements would be mostly siege units. Therefore we don't need to produce too many non-siege units in this game. 40 units are usually enough to deal with 1 immortal AI and we won't attack multiple AIs as in a conquest race.
Therefore, I don't see the situation that we need to draft
^^^^ I understood Nat. to mean Nationhood the civic, not Nationalism the tech. But yes, point taken. The timing of Nationalism and drafting is v. bad for a beaker race where we are whipping Galleons and lack the MoM, especially if we hope to trade for Philosophy.
You don't need to change any micro about the Fish site before knowing the Iron location.
Let's assume that 50% chance that Iron already inside our culture, which is the easy situation.
Another 50% chance that we need a settler to claim it. Then as I said before, the odd of Iron location is Sheep>Fish>Horse considering the non-forest tiles those sites cover. Therefore, if you have time, you could try to test how to connect the Iron in such a case. Not like last session where Iron location won't affect much, Iron location is going to change part of the worker micro and even the city build in this session. Therefore, try not to devote too much to a long session.
Our luck on AI's tech choices have been quite bad in recent SGOTMs:
SGOTM17, Mansa insisted on getting a religion instead of revealing Iron.
SGOTM19, we researched Alpha and waited for Math trade until T84.
This time, we have tried to avoid the tragedy of SGOTM19 and then fallen in another trap.
Your luck shown in the last turn session looks pretty strong, growing 2 forests was not common. I have faith that Either Liz or William is close to complete Alpha and Mansa is researching CoL.
PPP Turn 85 through Turn 95
TechsTurn 85 - 30% Literature (150
cheaper than Drama)Turn 86 - 100% Literature
Turn 88 - 100% Music (Just enough slider to complete)
Turn 93 - 0% Code of Laws
Turn 85 Real Game Screenshots here
Previous Turnset Results here
Know Your Enemy!
Shaka, Willem, Elizabeth, Mansa, Isabella, Louis XIV, 3 unmet AI (Catherine, tiny AI, +1 more)
Empire
Athens
T85 - Galley; Deer,GMine,RiverCottage,Fur,Coast
T86 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,GMine,RiverCottage,Coast
T87 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,Crabs,RiverFarm,RiverCottage
T88 - Settler; Deer,GMine,RiverFarm,RiverCottage,Coast,
popT89 - Whip Settler; Deer,GMine,RiverFarm (Will found Horse City 1S1E of horse tile on T93)
T90 - Odeon; Deer,Crabs,RiverFarm
T91 - Odeon; Deer,Fur,x2RiverCottage
T92 - Odeon; Deer,Wheat,RiverFarm,Fur
T93 - Odeon; Deer,RiverFarm,GMine,x2RiverCottage
T94 - Odeon; Deer,RiverFarm,x2RiverCottage,GrassCottage (If we wanted to 2-pop whip more military, this would be a good time to change city build)
Thebes
T85 - Catapult; x2Crab
T86 - Catapult; x2Crab,Fur
T87 - Worker; Crab,Fur,x2Coast
T88-T89 Worker; x2Crab,Fur,Coast
T90 - Whip Worker; Crab,Fur
T91 - Catapult; x2Crab
T92 - Library; x2Crab
T93-T94 Library; x2Crab,Fur
Sparta
T85 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Lake
T86-T87 Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake
T88 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake,GMine
T89 - Odeon; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake,GMine
T90 - Barracks; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake,GMine
T91 - Whip Barracks; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake
T92 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake
T93 - Whip Odeon; Crab,Cow,Lake
T94 - Catapult; Crab,Cow,Gems,Lake (Sparta goes
if Odeon isn't built by now)Corinth
T85 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
T86 - Worker; RiverGem,Gem,RiverFarm,GMine
T87 - Whip Worker; RiverGem,Gem
T88-T90 Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T91 - Odeon; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat,RiverFarm
T92 - Whip Odeon; RiverGem,Gem
T93 - Catapult; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T94 - Library; RiverGem,Gem,Wheat
T95 - (Corinth goes
if Odeon isn't built by now)Argos
T85 - Whip Library; x3Fish
T86 - Odeon; x3Fish,Scientist
T87 - Workboat; x3Fish,x2Scientist
T88 - Settler; x3Fish,x3Coast
T89 - Whip Settler; x3Fish (Will found Fish City 2N3E of corn tile on T93)
T90 - Workboat; x3Fish
T91 - Workboat; x3Fish,Coast
T92-T94 Worker; x3Fish,x2Scientist
===================== (Continued to get 3-pop settler whip +G. Scientist)
T95-T96 Worker; x3Fish,x2Scientist (Galley2 can drop off worker 4S1E of Fish City on T98. Can move to 2S or 2S1W of Fish city T99)
T97 - Workboat?; x3Fish,Coast,Scientist
T98 - Workboat; x3Fish,Coast,x2Scientist
T99 - Settler; x3Fish,Coast,x2Scientist
T100 - Whip Settler; x3Fish
T101-T102 Workboat; x3Fish,Scientist
T103-T104 - Settler/Worker for 2 turns to keep from going
; x3Fish,x2Scientist (No more whips until Great Scientist born on T110, workboat in queue has 25/30)Knossos (Deer+Gem City)
T85 - Barracks; Deer
T86 - Barracks; Deer,PlainsForest
T87 - Whip Barracks; Deer
T88 - Catapult; Deer,GrassForest
T89-T90 Catapult; Deer,RiverFarm
T91-T92 Catapult; Deer,RiverFarm,GrassForest
T93 - Catapult; Deer,RiverFarm,x2GrassForest
T94 - Whip Catapult; Deer,RiverFarm
Mycenae (Corn City)
T85-T88 Barracks; Corn
T89 - Barracks; Corn,GrassForest
T90 - Whip Barracks; Corn
T91-92 Catapult; Corn,RiverFarm
T93-T94 Catapult; Corn,RiverFarm,GrassForest
Pharsalos (Whales+Fish City, founded T89 1N1W of fish tile if no extra seafood found)
T89-T92 Granary; Fish
T93 - Build
; FishT94 - Granary; Fish,WhaleTile
Ephesus (Horse City, founded T93 1S1E of horse tile)
T93 - Granary; HorseTile
T94 - Granary; Horse
Halicarnassus (Fish City, founded T93 2N3E of corn tile)
T93-T95 Granary; PlainsForest
T96 Build
; PlainsForestT97 Granary; Fish
Workers
Worker (that starts 1S of Corinth)
T85 - Road at 2S1E of Knossos and stop
T86 - Move to 2W of Sparta
T87-T88 Road 2W of Sparta
T89 - Move to 3W1S of Sparta
T90-T91 Road 3W1S of Sparta
T92 - Road 1E of horse tile
T93-T94 Pasture horse tile
Worker (starts on corn 1E of Mycenae)
T85-T86 Road Corn
T87 - Mine 1S1W of Mycenae and stop
T88-T89 Farm 2E of Knossos
T90-T91 Farm 1S2W of Mycenae
T92 - Fort 2S2E of Knossos and stop
T93 - Road 2S1E of Knossos
T94 - Road 1S of Knossos
Worker (starts on corn 1E of Mycenae)
T85 - Farm Corn
T86 - Mine 1S1W of Mycenae and stop
T87-T89 Farm 2E of Knossos
T90-T91 Farm 1S2W of Mycenae
T92-T93 Mine 1S1W of Mycenae
T94-T96 Farm 2S1W of Mycenae
Worker (starts on corn 1E of Mycenae)
T85 - Farm Corn
T86 - Move to forest 1S2W of Mycenae
T87-T89 Chop forest 1S2W of Mycenae
T90 - Farm 1S2W of Mycenae
T91 - Move to forest 2S1W of Mycenae
T92-T94 Chop forest 2S1W of Mycenae
T95-T96 Farm 2S1W of Mycenae
Worker (starts 1N1W of Athens)
T85 - Cottage 1N1W of Athens
T86-T89 Cottage 1W of Athens
T90 - Cottage 1S2E of Sparta and stop
T91 - Move to 2W of Sparta
T92 - Road 1E of horse tile
T93-T94 Pasture horse tile
Worker (produced in Corinth on T88)
T88 - Road 1N of Corinth
T89-T91 Move to forest 2N4E of corn tile
T92-T94 Chop forest 2N4E of corn tile
Worker (produced in Thebes T91)
T91-T94 Cottage 1N1W of Thebes
Unit Micro:
Galley (that starts 2S1W of Corinth)
T85 - Load Settler from Sparta, move 1W and load warrior from 1S3W of Sparta, move 1S1W
T86 - Head to 2S2W of barb city to drop off warrior 1N2W of fish tile by turn 88. If no extra seafood found, unload settler 1N1W of fish tile.
T89 - Move 1N1W, pick up warrior that finished exploring Shaka, then move 1S1E.
T90 - Pick up warrior from Whales+Fish island, then sail east to drop warriors off on arctic islands to fogbust.
IF an island is found west of Whales+Fish island, team will have to decide if we sail east or west.
T99 - Can be 1S1E of Thebes with 1
/2 left if neededWarrior (starts 1S3W of Sparta)
T85 - Get on Galley 2S2W of Sparta
T88 - Unload from galley to 1N2W of fish tile to search for extra seafood and more islands to the west
**Also, make sure to note on forums where the new extra seafood is if there is any.
T90 - Board galley and sail east to garrison arctic fish islands.
Scout (starts 2W1S of Knossos)
T85 - Move to 1W of Utrecht
T86 - Move northwest to see units in Amsterdam, then keep exploring west past The Hague.
Only return to south of Amsterdam if there is nothing left to explore out west.
Settler (starts in Sparta)
T85 - Get on galley 2S1W of Sparta to settle Whales+Fish City T89
T88 - Unload 1S1W from galley if warrior finds extra seafood, else unload 1S of galley.
T89 - Found Whales+Fish City 1N1W of the fish tile if no extra seafood found.
Workboat (starts 1E of barb city)
T85 - Move to 2W of fish tile near Whales+Fish City spot by T87.
T88 - Move to improve seafood 3W of fish tile, 4W of fish tile if fish, or 3W1S of fish tile if fish.
If no extra seafood discovered by warrior, move to 1E of fish tile T88 to prepare to improve fish southeast of city spot T89
Warrior (starts in Shaka's territory)
T86 - Move 2E1S
T87 - Move 1S1E to unfog last coastal tile for Shaka trade routes
T89 - Board galley 1S1E to garrison tundra fish island against barb galley spawning
Galley 2 (produced in Athens T86)
T86 - Load warrior from Athens and move to 1N2E of Athens
T87 - Move to 1N of Thebes, unload warrior into Thebes from ocean, then move to 2N1E of Thebes
T88 - Move to 1S1E of Argos
T89 - Move to 1N1E of Argos
T90 - Pick up Settler from Argos and sail to 2N1W of Argos
T91 - Move to 2W of sheep tile and unload settler 1N2W of sheep tile
T92-T94 Move to 2N2E of Athens
Warrior (starts in Athens)
T86 - Get on galley2 in Athens
T87 - Walk into Thebes from galley2 1N of Thebes and garrison Thebes
Settler (produced in Athens T90)
T90 - Move to Sparta
T91-T92 Move to forest 1S1E of horse tile
T93 - Found Horse City 1S1E of horse tile
Settler (produced in Argos T90)
T90 - Board galley2 1N1E of Argos
T91 - Unload 1N2W of sheep tile
T92 - Move to forest 2N3E of corn tile
T93 - Found Fish City 2N3E of corn tile
Warrior (starts 1N2W of sheep tile)
T91 - Move to 1N1W of sheep tile
Workboat (produced in Argost T92)
T92-T96 Move to 1N1E of Fish City (Fish City should build
this turn)T97 Improve fish 2N of Fish City
Catapult (produced in Thebes T92)
T92-T94 Move to 1N1W of Thebes and wait for Galley 2 to move to unload in Athens T95
Great Artist (produced in Athens T93)
T93-T94 Move to 3N of Corinth. Will replace sheep warrior who is spawnbusting.
Catapult (produced in Sparta T93)
T93-T94 Move to 2S1E of Knossos
Warrior (starts 2N1E of Horse City)
T93 - Move to Horse City
T94 - Move to deer tile 1S1W of Horse City)
Catapult (produced in Corinth T94)
T94 - Move to 1S2E of Sparta
=====================
Exploration Strategy
Far East Workboat - Continue searching for new AI in the North+East direction. Circumnavigation bonus is also now a priority.
If no north or northeast passage exists, circle around the desert island counterclockwise and then check Southeast tip of island for passage.
If none, then head south exploring French lands and possible eastern passage.
Far West Warrior (inside Shaka's lands) -
Will defog coastal tile T87 to get Shaka trade routes.
Will get on Galley T89 and help fogbust arctic fish islands to keep barb galleys from forming.
Scout (2W1S of Knossos on turn 85) - Carefully move west past Utrecht. Scout south of Amsterdam briefly and keep scouting west. Will scout west of The Hague along the coastline. If scout runs out of land to explore, will double back and spy south of Amsterdam.
Stopping Conditions
An AI has Alphabet. (Revealing iron will require a complete Worker micro re-evaluation)
Turn 88 - If there is another arctic island west of Whales+Fish island after the warrior steps onto the Fish+Whales island, we must decide if galley+2 warriors sails east or west.
Start of Turn 95 is reached
Barbs threaten us in any way (we are still a warrior based civ)
Willem loses a city
Elizabeth goes war mode (fist)
Halt play if any AI offers Bronze or Iron for trade. (These usually only available for 1 turn and cost a lot)
Something very unexpected happens
Diplo
Trade Louis crabs for wheat Turn 85.
Tends to involve Isabella (We are currently +2 Cautious, so Isabella's 8/10 Demands means there is high chance she will demand our
or resources when our trade route opens up 
)Mansa we can treat like dirt.
Spoiler :
Refuse if any AI but Isabella asks for
Grant Isabella's
demand if it is 70 or less. If it is greater than 70 refuse her. (We'd be buying +2 relations since we'd have +1 instead of -1)Refuse if any AI asks for religion conversion after religion spread
Refuse if Shaka asks us to close borders with Willem
Refuse all AI DOW requests
If we get a Buddhism spread, we convert if Isabella demands it. Being her religion is a fast way to get monopoly techs.
Grant all AI resource demands except for Shaka or Willem. (We don't want a 10 turn peace treaty with them)
Never trade for Meditation
Sign open borders with new AI at end of turn. Spend 10
if needed.Espionage
100% on Mansa
We can see his research in +15 more
Check Every Turn
Save at beginning and end of each turn
Zoom out and check
for the explorersIf any AI has Alphabet
If any AI is plotting war besides Shaka+Willem (fist icon)
Start of T95 Test Run Screenshot:
Spoiler :
Since the PPP is only 59%(!) done, I thought I'd share an OF bug that was new to me.
I said earlier:
It turns out Worker and Settler whips have an evil side as well
It occurs when the foodbank is almost full and we whip into instant regrowth, e.g. :
---
In other news, I did nothing productive this evening.
I said earlier:
It turns out Worker and Settler whips have an evil side as well
It occurs when the foodbank is almost full and we whip into instant regrowth, e.g. :
Spoiler :
---
In other news, I did nothing productive this evening.
Save looks great.
I think you can fogbust differently with the Sheep Warrior:
Since we build a Library in Argos on T86, you could run research @ 30% on T85 and @ 100% on T92.
Tech pause on CoL if we don't have Alphabet by T93.Pharsalos (Whales+Fish City, founded T89 1N1W of fish tile if no extra seafood found)
T89-T92 Granary; Fish (This is better than a Lighthouse right?)
T93 - Build
T94 - Granary; Fish,WhaleTile
Granary is better than a Lighthouse.
If you discover a 2nd seafood resource that we can improve, could you please take a screenshot? This won't be a stopping point, but someone can check whether we should whip a WB on T94 while you play.
If there is, e.g., a second Fish, whipping a Work Boat @ size 2 will be better than growing straight to size 4 to whip a Granary (I'm 90% certain). However, if there is a weaker seafood resource, i.e. a Clams or a Crab, I'm less sure.
Workboat (starts 1E of barb city)
T85 - Move to 2W of fish tile near Whales+Fish City spot by T87.
T88 - Move to improve seafood 3W of fish tile, 4W of fish tile if fish, or 3W1S of fish tile if fish.
If no extra seafood discovered by warrior, move to 1E of fish tile T88 to prepare to improve fish southeast of city spot T89
Improve a 1st ring seafood resource first, unless the western Snow Hill site means that we can claim 2x 2nd ring seafood resources (e.g. 1x Fish 2W and 1x Fish 2E).
I think you can fogbust differently with the Sheep Warrior:
Spoiler :
Since we build a Library in Argos on T86, you could run research @ 30% on T85 and @ 100% on T92.
Ok, will pause on CoL
That's a very aggressive use of Great Artist!
I think i'll send him north to replace the sheep warrior.
Sheep warrior can go exploring or garrison corn city or something.
Ya, I never heard of or noticed this bug before. Not that I remember.
Great work Doshin.
Save looks great.
Tech pause on CoL if we don't have Alphabet by T93.
I think you can fogbust differently with the Sheep Warrior:
Spoiler :
Since we build a Library in Argos on T86, you could run research @ 30% on T85 and @ 100% on T92.
Ok, I'll make a note of any extra seafood on T88 on forums.
I'll also change it so the sheep warrior moves 1E on T91.
The tech rate feels a tiny bit slower in the Real Game than Test Game.
I'll do 40% on T85 and 100% on T92.
Should be able to start play in about 4 hours.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Good luck!
Interesting find Doshin.
Interesting find Doshin.
Good luck!
Interesting find Doshin.
Thanks!
Playing Real Game now:
T85 - Traded Louis crabs for wheat.
T86 - Scout workboat still moving due north.
Light Red/Rose colored AI borders spotted further north
T87 - Met Mao of China. He has 5 cities.
Stopping Condition reached! Mansa has Alphabet
He has Alpha,Mono,Archer,Iron Working. We got Aesthetics,Math,Currency.
Then we can trade for Iron working with someone else.
Shall I make the trades?
**Edit** Hmm, team seems to like Currency for Alphabet. I'll make that trade then soon.
Forest grew 3N of Sparta
Amsterdam has Archer(Hill 2), Archer (CG1), Chariot (C1), and galley.
Shaka has two C1 chariots to the south, so Willem is surviving.
Traded Currency to Mansa for Alphabet
Traded Writing to Isabella for 20
+ArcheryTraded Mathematics to Willem for 15
Traded Animal Husbandry to Elizabeth for 5
Opened borders with Mao after defogging Shaka coastline.
T88 - Traded Mysticism to Shaka for 50
Traded Mathematics to Louis for 25
+ Iron Working.Iron discovered 1S of sheep tile.
Will play more tomorrow.
I'm ok with this. Maybe wait for 1 more vote.T87 - Met Mao of China. He has 5 cities.
Stopping Condition reached! Mansa has Alphabet
He has Alpha,Mono,Archer,Iron Working. We got Aesthetics,Math,Currency.
I'd say we should trade Aesthetics+Math for Alpha+Mono.
Then we can trade for Iron working with someone else.
Shall I make the trades?
I'll go ahead and take small break and do it in 30 mins unless someone say no.
The other option is to trade Currency to Mansa, to increase his research rate. shakabrade suggested this, and I'd be ok with it too.
Yep, that was totally the reason why I suggested leaving Sparta's 1 Forest alone.Forest grew 3N of Sparta
----
Did you open borders with Mao?
Similar threads
