S3rgeus's Wheel of Time Mod

counterpoint · Apr 19, 2015

Bob Morane said:
Hello there. I almost feel like i have to apologize for interrupting your conversation
I have roughly followed this thread for some time (didn't read everything but tried to get an idea of your goals and progress) and while i'm not very familiar with the WoT story, all the stuff you put together seems great from a game-play point of view. I will try to be short (compared to your own posts at least ).

Hi bob! What a crazy username you have there. It's as if it's... an actual name.

In any case, welcome. Thanks for interrupting our conversation - it was beginning to smell like counterpoint and s3rgeus in here. Should I open a window?

In any case, thanks for your thoughts, some good questions you're asking.

Bob Morane said:
Spark. In the summary, you say that channelers "consume" spark. Does this mean spark is a strategic resource used by channelers or some yield like faith that will be permanently used to create channelers. Later can be hard to balance because if spark is very rare, those units will have so much value to players that there is a risk they end up not using them much (if you played FFH mod for Civ4, how often did you attack with your hero when odds of winning were lower than 99.9%) If spark is not rare however, those units won't be so special. Strategic resource that can be re-used if the unit dies can make those units rare and special without having the player refrain from using them in fear of loosing them (Ea heroes will die one day or another and once they die, a new is more likely to appear so i will attack with my warrior hero)

Spark is essentially a strategic resource, though one that is generated differently.

Spark is obtained primarily a function of population, but also can be effected by diplomacy, social policies, and stuff like that (and a strategic resource you get in the late game). But it's like a strategic resource in that you consume it when you *have* the unit, and then when the unit dies, it is freed up again. So, in early game, if you have 5 Spark, that means you can have 5 channeling units at a time.

Bob Morane said:
Science Victory. Not sure where you are going with Envoys. It's a nice idea to have SV more interactive but how can i stop an opponent from winning science apart from DoW to kill his envoys? If there is no peaceful way to deal with those it might be much work from you to implement something that will ultimately merely add slightly more micro management to get the victory. With science being that important to every victory anyway i wouldn't see any issue to have SV simply removed, especially for a fantasy mod.

Right, we talked a great deal about the "Defense" against the Science Victory being integral to it being truly interactive.

The trouble is, we never found an option that didn't seem either too easy, too hard, or too complicated.

What we settled on was allowing a "defending" civ's science output to provise them early visibility on an incoming envoy. This could allow them to strategically block the unit or Declare War. It's not much, but it's something.

We decided that, ultimately, semi-interactivity was better than NO interactivity (current CiV).

Please, if you have some ideas for how else this could work, share them!

Bob Morane said:
Bloodknives. Spies promoted to bloodkinives that die (in mission or from timer) will re-spawn like normal spies (sorry, eyes and ears ) won't they? I can't imagine permanently sacrificing a spy.

Absolutely, they're reborn as level 1 spies, which is sacrifice enough (bloodknives are at least level 2).

Bob Morane said:
[*]The tower. I like the idea of being able, for a cost, to refuse edicts It's silly how the WC can ban my luxuries and i can't say them "go to hell" even while i'm warring everyone. Hopefully you can do something similar with Compact of Nations.

I think - correct me if I'm wrong, S3rgeus - we actually decided *not* to let WC resolutions be refusable. Figured it opened up a huge can of worms. I know, I know, it kind of sucks. It seemed to us that denying people one of the key tools to half warmongers and science victors and culture tycoons - the WC - shouldn't be hamstrung too much. Hopefully the refusal of Tower Edicts helps mitigate this though.

Also, do note that during the Last Battle (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, S3rgeus), the Compact only applies to one side (or there are two of them, I don't remember), so there aren't any outrageous blocks made possible by permanent alliances in the end game.

Bob Morane said:
Domination. Not sure how governors will play in the base game or how you get them but you have some interesting ideas for their role in wars. I'm sure you could even design something so that they will make domination harder and easier depending on how the player manages his governors. No need to be "either".

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. We'll need to keep that in mind when we hit governors specifically. Would be curious what specific suggestions you might have.

Bob Morane said:
Threads. I don't think, as a player, that there is anything wrong with some of those "events" having a cost. There would be something wrong (and frustrating) to purely bad events. Comunitas mod (not the community patch, the old Comunitas mod) had some interesting event where you could choose between minor bonus at no cost, or big bonus with some cost. That was perfect. OTOH, an event where you just have to choose between the least of 2 evils is a pain in a strategy game and can lead to frustration, especially if you later miss some important wonder and feel like the fault is up to that event (much like missing 5th religion due to random prophet spawn while you were sitting on 200+ faith for 10 turns). OTOH, simple gold cost often means player will stockpile some gold to always choose the best bonus so costs must be varied and balanced.

What you're suggesting here is sounding a lot like what S3rgeus has been laying out in his recent posts. As I'll write to him later today, I'm mostly convinced that you guys have the right of it!.

Bob Morane said:
"Barbarian" colors. The most important part is to tell them apart from civs colors quickly. Looking at your preview icons there is not much black, and probably only as secondary color so i guess black is a good base for primary. Having black as primary for every barbarian, and only for barbarians would probably allow player to quickly see them. For secondary i would stay away from "cold" colors because they don't "stand up" as much (artists often use "cold" colors to give a feeling of depth while "hot" colors seem to "jump" at you) so Black/Red, Black/Yellow, maybe Black/Brown if it's a reddish brown. Black/Gray would probably look washed out and not stand out much, but maybe you want your shadow-spawns to feel insidious. You probably still want to avoid pure gray and slightly tint it.

Good ideas! I do think making them stand out is the most important thing. Does anybody else hate it when Poland and Austria end up on the same map (or even with contiguous borders)?

Thanks alot, again. Please continue to jump in whenever you wish.

counterpoint · Apr 19, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Yeah, let's let Lawless keep the Barbarian colors. Shadowspawn can be darker, but of a similar color. We could go with something like gold and black for the Dragonsworn?

I sort of think we need to go with Black for the Dragonsworn. I know black is CS-land now, but it does seem appropriate. Maybe a deep purple?

But yeah, different kinds of Red (probably like what Bob Morane has suggested) is probably great for the two human foes (maybe even the Sspawn).

S3rgeus said:
I think per turn/group of turns makes sense for both. So males make +1 per turn, females +1 every 5 turns? Every 10?

I'd also be fine with per action (well, per attack), with a probability chance, so males could trigger it more often.

Let's drop the lump sum on production so it can be uniform across both, and since having lump sums when male channelers are born is bad, as you've said.

I think every 10 is even too often for females. Think about the relative numbers. You can't "produce" male channelers - they just happen, so you're likely to have way fewer... so the females need to be much less or else then end up a *bigger* part of the equation than the males.

OK, I think let's do per attack, like this:

Females - 10% (5%?) chance of incurring a FD point
Males - 100% (95? 90?) chance of incurring an FD point.

I know this is the same ratio as 10/1 turns, but with turns, it's happening *all the time*.

Is it possible for Asha'man to coexist with false dragons, or do FDs already cease to exist by then? If they can coexist, I suggest the A'M generate less, like 50%. Also potentially true for any male UU's we create.

S3rgeus said:
Cool, I think almost exclusively bonus-based is the way to go. In some of my suggestions for "all upside" versions for Threads we're currently working on, I think I went too far (the Great Writer one comes to mind, but I'll address that specifically later) in making some choices "obviously better" because they gave big payouts where the other choices didn't.

EPICNESS

So, as demonstrated by my walls of text, I think I'm convinced that going for an almost-all-bonuses approach makes sense for us, but I'd like you to be convinced too, rather than mainly go along with my decision. Is there any more convincing I should do? Do you think there are more situations where costs on more choices help us? (I'm of course open to be convinced back to having costs if there's a compelling reason to do so.)

Pending this decision, I'll keep going through our current discussions so we've consolidated into the master list!

OK, I feel really, really, really bad about not responding section by section, and by responding to such a large amount of text with such short stuff, but....

Yeah, alright, let's do it your way.

Am I 100% convinced? No, I'm not, but I'm sure as heck not convinced my way is the right way either!

The truth is, the example threads you've laid out all seem highly reasonable, and "feel" totally fine to me. Intuitively, I do wonder "where's the cost!?" when I look at them, but that's simply a matter of not being used to it.

Ultimately, a huge thing is simply that we both seem to agree that mechanically it's a wash. I think we're coming at the "feel" from somewhat different directions, but I sure as heck can't offer any real evidence as to why my initial thoughts on what "feels best" are any more correct that your initial thoughts.

So, for me it comes down to a few things:

1) You feel more strongly in favor of your side than I do of mine (in part because you have somewhat swayed me)
2) The examples you have offered up seem fine to me
3) Your's is the "nice" approach, in that it doesn't involve punitive stuff, and consequently it is the less risky approach. Even if we totally ruin the design and balance, it's less likely to elicit feelings of anger from the player. Kind of like a game making your main character too powerful (sort of boring, maybe) than way unfairly weak (upsetting).

So - all upside it is! I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm certainly convinced *enough*.

I'm fine with the notion of having some Threads having a particularly good bonus and an accompanying penalty.

Will they be in every thread, or just some?

Will the Big ones be associated primarily with Shadow, or also Light and Neutrality?

That Being Said, I think in order to make this work, there are a few things to consider:

1) I'd say, in general, the bonuses associated with Threads should be relatively small (not counting alignment, which can be whatever we want)., and likely scale by era. The reason for this is we could easily throw the balance of the rest of the game out of whack if they are too big. The point should still fundamentally be the Alignment - the bonuses are just icing on the cake. Don't want to break the game.

2) One of your good arguments about the flaws of the "complexity" I was championing was that it's really impossible to weigh variable bonuses against variable penalties, because each yield is of variable importance to each civ. This was a good point, and did a good deal to convince me.
As a consequence, I think the penalties we choose (when we do include penalties) should be of the type that will be somewhat "universal" in their effect. Even a non-culture player will likely be drawn to a Great Writer (it offers often 50% of a social policy, for example), so I think we should make the penalties things that will by as close to universally crappy as possible. So, things like:

- unhappiness
- penalties to science
- *maybe* penalties to food or pop (though, as discussed, this may not be universal!)
- *maybe* gold.
- *maybe* units or governors.

What I don't like is the idea of it being Culture, or Faith, or things that some civs might deem their "dump" (i.e., the D&D 3rd edition warrior with a 7 charisma) because it doesn't really affect their playstyle.

Do you agree? How would you amend my list?

I guess, what I'm looking for is things that are not only universal, but who's quantitative value is easy to predict. 5 or 10 happiness is always significant, 1000 gold is sometimes tremendously significant, but for other civs essentially insignificant (late-game +272 gpt, etc.). Thus gold is probably not a great candidate (unless it's done by proportion of a civs income or something).

If we can balance this, we can prevent people landing on a thread and being like "Oh sweet! I get the *good* one and it barely even bothers me!"

S3rgeus said:
Done. I rewrote the main body like this:

Flavor: One of your advisers has suggested that groups of artisans are potentially harboring Darkfriends and should be put to the Question.

Inquisition
Great. That'll work. Let's make it Actors instead of Artisans just for variety's sake. Or sculptors or something. Sand Mandala makers.

S3rgeus said:
We could swap out the flavor of this choice for another one:

Choice B: Redirect their idolatry to see if they can find a way to emulate his powers (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)

Organized Cult
I get what you're saying here. It's a little confusing sounding, but we can figure that out later.

S3rgeus said:
But anyway, I like a lot of your suggestions here, and this is exactly the kind of Thread changes that help for the all-upside approach, where we go back and say that actually the flavor of the situation we're working on can be changed to make the bonuses make more sense. I'm thinking it leads to something like:

Miscounted Revenue
Flavor: Your clerks have been recounting taxes and found a clerical error, you have collected more gold from your citizens than originally intended.
Choice A: Our coffers overfloweth, we must give it back (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Donate the excess to scholarly endeavors (+Science)
Choice C: That's very fortunate, adjust our ledgers accordingly (+Gold, +Shadow)

Excellent.

S3rgeus said:
Cool, I'm happy to come back to the breakdown of GP types when we're doing GPs in more detail then. Just to clarify about your last sentence, we are definitely having WoT GP types, right? It's just the breakdown of what makes them up that we need to decide on. I think a few systems we've already decided on depend on there being WoT GP types.

Very true about the Sniffer restriction, it would make the Thread almost impossible to ever see, unless Sniffers were more like Great Generals/Admirals, which tend to spend more time on the map. Even then, it's a small window of time it would be available.

Do we want WoT GPs? I don't know, actually.

I think what we need to do is go through the "normal" GP types and see where that leaves us. WoT GPs are chiefly a flavor benefit, so it'll depend on what we have/need. We won't know until we take care of the essentials first.

S3rgeus said:
Yeah, definitely, these ended up a bit wonky. This makes me think we should change the flavor of what the choices represent. How about:

Guild of Thief-Takers
Flavor: Your City Watch has failed to keep crime in check. A band of Thief-Takers has offered to help.
Choice A: Allow them to aid your city guard (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: They could aid in constructing a distraction instead (Receive <Happiness building> in <city that doesn't have one>, +Shadow)
Choice C: Instruct them to seize coin from lucrative thieves only (Minor +Gold, Minor +Happiness)
Restriction: must be unhappy

Or possibly +Gold for C, not Minor.

Not sure a C +gold versus minor gold.

B feels a little weird. Seems sort of weird to be like "hey guys, you're now stone masons". And also, the way it's flavored doesn't seem to jive with the +shadow aspect. Also, that makes all three of these options +Happiness, which doesn't seem like the best option.

That said.... I don't really know what to suggest. We definitely do need a shadow option.. I think.

S3rgeus said:
I've just realized that this setup means C is just B + Shadow, which I think we generally want to avoid. (As you've mentioned before, players shouldn't just "default" to a choice, which direct comparisons like this would make them do.) There's obviously room within +Tower Influence to have one choice give less than the other, even if they're in the same ballpark, but it would be good if there was always some element of "alternative" in each direction. How about this:

Training the Heirs
Flavor: The White Tower has requested that you send the sons and daughters of the royal family to train with their Aes Sedai and Warders.
Choice A: Their place is here, with our people (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Very well (+Tower Influence)
Choice C: Certainly, but instruct the youths to bring back "souvenirs" when they visit home (Minor +Culture, Minor +Tower Influence, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority

Alternative flavor for C would be to tell them to "steal secrets" and have that give Minor +Science.

like it! i do think sciemce for C is cool

S3rgeus said:
Very good point. Like you, I never do this, but having done some quick reading about its value on the CiV reddit, it seems like there's definitely a lot of value here. By default 1 citizen creates 1 Unhappiness, so yeah, more population isn't always good. I think a few incidental population points from Threads should be manageable in almost all cases - civs hovering around 0 Happiness should be working on raising it already.

right. doubt the threads will be a big problem for this

S3rgeus said:
Cursed Item
We could just drop the cost for A? It still looks quite balanced after we do that.

well, we've dropped ALL costs now!

S3rgeus said:
We could make choice B give only 1 unit, then it wouldn't be the clear best choice?

Foreign Soldiers
yeah, that's probably alright. UUs are pretty sexy though...

S3rgeus said:
Yeah, free GPs are definitely at the top of the pyramid of bonuses. How about this change:

Nightmare Walker
Flavor: You have heard of a strange and powerful man that wanders the World of Dreams, haunting some of your people in the night.
Choice A: Seek the Tower's help - maybe they can catch him (+Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Dedicate a few of your own channelers to protect your lands in the Dream (+Culture)
Choice C: Some scholars are investigating ways of inducing sleep without dreams, people have no need for such distractions. Send those affected as test subjects. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: An outcast warrior claims he can manipulate the World of the Dream with his mind and has offered to fight this man if you lend aid. (Sacrifice X power of units, gain Wolfbrother unit, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Not Oppression

looks good! and balanced

S3rgeus said:
Definitely, how about this:

Legendary Traveler
Flavor: You have learned that one of your soldiers is, in fact, an esteemed world traveller.
Choice A: He has chosen this simple life, and should be allowed to live it. (Minor +Light, +Faith)
Choice B: Encourage your bards to tell tales of his travels (Minor +Culture)
Choice C: Claim the stories of his travels as your own (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice D: Imprison him until he writes a compendium of his adventures (-Happiness, Gain Great Writer, +Shadow)

This is the kind of scale I was thinking way about when I mentioned choices that go in the same direction as the costs with big payoffs. C and D clearly work toward the same objective, choosing between the two, if that particular yield (in this case Prestige) helps you, is a matter of deciding if you wish to pay the cost of getting the greater reward.

I almost chose Gold as the cost for D, but given that Happiness is very important to Culture victory players (you produce less culture when unhappy), it seemed an appropriate cost.

Yeah, I like these choices and I like this scale. These last two did a lot of no-cost convincing for me (because they have costs!)

OK, so what now? You going to go through and propose no-cost (mostly no-cost) versions of the existing ones, then?

May I suggest you *not* edit the "Master List*, or if you do, make a copy of it somewhere? We should probably label that the "old list" and create a new one that has the no-cost stuff - without deleting the prior efforts.

S3rgeus · Apr 20, 2015

Bob Morane said:
Hello there. I almost feel like i have to apologize for interrupting your conversation
I have roughly followed this thread for some time (didn't read everything but tried to get an idea of your goals and progress) and while i'm not very familiar with the WoT story, all the stuff you put together seems great from a game-play point of view. I will try to be short (compared to your own posts at least ).

Welcome to the thread! As counterpoint said, no worries about interrupting! Always great to hear from someone who's interested in the mod and your questions have been very well read, you've definitely got a good handle on what we're working on and what we're trying to do.

I think counterpoint covered most of your questions, so I won't repeat the answers for those, just the one section:

Bob Morane said:
The tower. I like the idea of being able, for a cost, to refuse edicts It's silly how the WC can ban my luxuries and i can't say them "go to hell" even while i'm warring everyone. Hopefully you can do something similar with Compact of Nations.

And

counterpoint said:
I think - correct me if I'm wrong, S3rgeus - we actually decided *not* to let WC resolutions be refusable. Figured it opened up a huge can of worms. I know, I know, it kind of sucks. It seemed to us that denying people one of the key tools to half warmongers and science victors and culture tycoons - the WC - shouldn't be hamstrung too much. Hopefully the refusal of Tower Edicts helps mitigate this though.

Also, do note that during the Last Battle (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, S3rgeus), the Compact only applies to one side (or there are two of them, I don't remember), so there aren't any outrageous blocks made possible by permanent alliances in the end game.

It's actually the Tower that only applies to one side during the Last Battle, the Compact is still global. We discussed a bit about each side voting as a block and whether or not that would be a problem. One thing we did say was that the Shadow side would be less unified, since they're all still trying to win individual victory conditions. And the flipside of that is since the Light can't win a diplo victory anymore, their block vote won't necessarily be helpful to them. They can do things that are detrimental to one Shadow civ, but other Shadow civs could benefit from it as well. (Like Arts vs Science funding). Since there's no way to target the whole Shadow side as a block, the Light is less likely to block vote. (They also won't be homogenous, so they may disagree on, say, Arts vs Science Funding.)

We did indeed decide to make Compact Resolutions non-refusable. This was partially a cautionary choice. We decided that we definitely want the Tower Edicts to be refusable and wanted to trial that first. If the Tower Edicts turn out to be a mess and we need to make them mandatory, then we only have to change the Edicts, and the Resolutions remain the same. If the Edicts are a massive success, then we can consider switching the Compact Resolutions to be refusable as well. But if we put the effort in to make the Compact Resolutions refusable from the get-go and we get to the "mess" scenario, then we need to spend even more time undoing the Compact refusability stuff and the Edicts stuff. Given the comparability between the two, we figured this was a safe approach.

We'd definitely need to discuss a lot more about what the cost of refusing a Compact Resolution would need to be.

Also, I'm totally with you about the World Congress resolutions in BNW. It seems preposterous that I can't just refuse to "ban luxury X" in my civilization, while my worldspanning war with literally everybody saps all my happiness, just because those other guys have the delegates for it.

Bob Morane said:
Domination. Not sure how governors will play in the base game or how you get them but you have some interesting ideas for their role in wars. I'm sure you could even design something so that they will make domination harder and easier depending on how the player manages his governors. No need to be "either".

Just wanted to reiterate counterpoint's statement here of "very good point"! I hadn't considered this approach either, of making the Governors introduce symmetrical variance, so if they were well managed they made Domination easier, but badly managed would make it harder. Sounds like a good one!

Bob Morane said:
Well, sorry for disturbing you. I hope this mod will eventually come to life, it could be the "Fall from Heaven" of Civ5 when you finish it

I have to say a very sincere thank you for this comparison! I do really hope that this mod becomes something akin to Fall From Heaven and it's great of you to say it. FfH and Rhye's were the only mods I played for Civ4 and they were phenomenal. We'll do our best to make it so! And do of course feel free to follow up with any more suggestions/questions or comments on our responses to any of the above!

counterpoint said:
Good ideas! I do think making them stand out is the most important thing. Does anybody else hate it when Poland and Austria end up on the same map (or even with contiguous borders)?

It's Ethiopia and the Barbarians that always catch me out! I've willfully ignored Barbarian units and even walked a civilian into one because I thought it was an Ethiopian unit and they were one of my neighbors.

Threads stuff incoming later!

S3rgeus · Apr 20, 2015

counterpoint said:
I sort of think we need to go with Black for the Dragonsworn. I know black is CS-land now, but it does seem appropriate. Maybe a deep purple?

But yeah, different kinds of Red (probably like what Bob Morane has suggested) is probably great for the two human foes (maybe even the Sspawn).

Sorry, I should've said Black/Gold rather than Gold/Black. As in have the Dragonsworn be gold where the Barbarians are red, keeping the primary color of black.

Black/Purple is a possible for the Shadowspawn. I could also see something like Black/Silver working, Silver to avoid the washed out effect Bob describes with Gray. I think the intention is definitely for the Shadowspawn to look insidious and evil, whereas Lawless and Dragonsworn look more chaotic and destructive.

counterpoint said:
I think every 10 is even too often for females. Think about the relative numbers. You can't "produce" male channelers - they just happen, so you're likely to have way fewer... so the females need to be much less or else then end up a *bigger* part of the equation than the males.

I agree about the numbers here, but at much less frequently than 10 we begin to outlast some unit lifetimes - warlike civs may lose a lot of these units and if the first point always comes up at turn 25, they're more likely to lose that unit and create another one, restarting the counter, before getting any points from them.

How about a % incidence for this as well? Males have a 100% FD point incidence each turn, females have 5%? Averages to one every 20 turns, but isn't as susceptible to completely not happening if the player's units don't have long lifespans?

counterpoint said:
OK, I think let's do per attack, like this:

Females - 10% (5%?) chance of incurring a FD point
Males - 100% (95? 90?) chance of incurring an FD point.

I know this is the same ratio as 10/1 turns, but with turns, it's happening *all the time*.

Is it possible for Asha'man to coexist with false dragons, or do FDs already cease to exist by then? If they can coexist, I suggest the A'M generate less, like 50%. Also potentially true for any male UU's we create.

5% and 90% sound good to me.

I think it's possible for Asha'men to coexist with False Dragons. My assumption is False Dragons stop spawning either once the Dragon is born or when the Last Battle starts. Which? I should put our answer in the misc summary. I think I like on LB start, since that makes the books timeline (with Logain and Taim) possible.

I'd be fine with Asha'men generating FD points 50% as often as other male channelers.

counterpoint said:
OK, I feel really, really, really bad about not responding section by section, and by responding to such a large amount of text with such short stuff, but....

Yeah, alright, let's do it your way.

Am I 100% convinced? No, I'm not, but I'm sure as heck not convinced my way is the right way either!

The truth is, the example threads you've laid out all seem highly reasonable, and "feel" totally fine to me. Intuitively, I do wonder "where's the cost!?" when I look at them, but that's simply a matter of not being used to it.

Ultimately, a huge thing is simply that we both seem to agree that mechanically it's a wash. I think we're coming at the "feel" from somewhat different directions, but I sure as heck can't offer any real evidence as to why my initial thoughts on what "feels best" are any more correct that your initial thoughts.

So, for me it comes down to a few things:

1) You feel more strongly in favor of your side than I do of mine (in part because you have somewhat swayed me)
2) The examples you have offered up seem fine to me
3) Your's is the "nice" approach, in that it doesn't involve punitive stuff, and consequently it is the less risky approach. Even if we totally ruin the design and balance, it's less likely to elicit feelings of anger from the player. Kind of like a game making your main character too powerful (sort of boring, maybe) than way unfairly weak (upsetting).

So - all upside it is! I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm certainly convinced *enough*.

Awesome sauce, almost-all-upside it is! And no worries about not quote blocking each section.

counterpoint said:
I'm fine with the notion of having some Threads having a particularly good bonus and an accompanying penalty.

Will they be in every thread, or just some?

Just some, and I'd say not too frequent.

counterpoint said:
Will the Big ones be associated primarily with Shadow, or also Light and Neutrality?

I think it should be split between the three. There should definitely be big ones for both Light and Shadow. I could see us either having some big Neutral ones as well, or making big Neutral choices very rare. Mostly because Threads are focused on Alignment, one way to make that clear would be to have the big payouts only available to players that are committed to a side. (Or at least committed enough to get a large quantity of points toward it.)

counterpoint said:
That Being Said, I think in order to make this work, there are a few things to consider:

1) I'd say, in general, the bonuses associated with Threads should be relatively small (not counting alignment, which can be whatever we want)., and likely scale by era. The reason for this is we could easily throw the balance of the rest of the game out of whack if they are too big. The point should still fundamentally be the Alignment - the bonuses are just icing on the cake. Don't want to break the game.

I agree, we don't want to imbalance the rest of the game and keeping the bonuses small is good for that. Also completely agree that we should scale the choices' output (bonuses, Alignment, and costs) by era, since players have a lot more resources available to them in the late game. (And of course by game speed.)

counterpoint said:
2) One of your good arguments about the flaws of the "complexity" I was championing was that it's really impossible to weigh variable bonuses against variable penalties, because each yield is of variable importance to each civ. This was a good point, and did a good deal to convince me.
As a consequence, I think the penalties we choose (when we do include penalties) should be of the type that will be somewhat "universal" in their effect. Even a non-culture player will likely be drawn to a Great Writer (it offers often 50% of a social policy, for example), so I think we should make the penalties things that will by as close to universally crappy as possible. So, things like:

- unhappiness
- penalties to science
- *maybe* penalties to food or pop (though, as discussed, this may not be universal!)
- *maybe* gold.
- *maybe* units or governors.

What I don't like is the idea of it being Culture, or Faith, or things that some civs might deem their "dump" (i.e., the D&D 3rd edition warrior with a 7 charisma) because it doesn't really affect their playstyle.

Do you agree? How would you amend my list?

I guess, what I'm looking for is things that are not only universal, but who's quantitative value is easy to predict. 5 or 10 happiness is always significant, 1000 gold is sometimes tremendously significant, but for other civs essentially insignificant (late-game +272 gpt, etc.). Thus gold is probably not a great candidate (unless it's done by proportion of a civs income or something).

If we can balance this, we can prevent people landing on a thread and being like "Oh sweet! I get the *good* one and it barely even bothers me!"

Agreed, some components of CiV don't make good costs for the big choices because they're not universally useful to all players, so some people get the big benefits for "free".

I'd say X power of military units is generally a good cost, because only civs currently at peace that have a large army (have just won a massive war or something) would gain from losing units. Other civs would be disadvantaged by it.

I think Food and Pop are generally good costs. Even players who are avoiding growth for happiness purposes will usually have grown their cities to the size they currently are intentionally, so denying them some tiles/specialists has significant knock-on effects. For everyone else it's a definite penalty. And a food penalty is a good one - even avoid growth civs want to be able to increase pop once they have the happiness to spare.

Totally agreed that happiness and science penalties are effective across the board, and that Gold isn't as effective.

Prestige is obviously a bad cost, because only culture victory players care about it.

Agree that Faith is a bad cost, because civs can ignore it in a lot of cases.

Pending our discussion on more specifics of Governors, I think they'll be relatively valuable, so they make effective costs. (Depending on how they're generated, possibly more effective than units.)

Costs of specific unit types are also good ones, since we can purposefully pick ones that are likely to be relevant to the bonus being received.

I think Culture is a marginally more effective cost than Faith, but not hugely. Culture is still relevant to all civs for Social Policies and Philosophical Tenets (we should probably rename them from Tenets?), but much less so than, say, Science or Food. Some civs can and do definitely ignore Culture.

Production is another one, penalties to production could potentially be enormously effective (have wide-ranging influence, like a player not being able to make enough units to win a war or missing a wonder because they built too slowly). We'd probably want to apply those in a very particular way, if we use them. (So possibly not universally on one player.)

counterpoint said:
Inquisition
Great. That'll work. Let's make it Actors instead of Artisans just for variety's sake. Or sculptors or something. Sand Mandala makers.

Done (went for sculptors)

counterpoint said:
Organized Cult
I get what you're saying here. It's a little confusing sounding, but we can figure that out later.

Cool, done. I think we'll definitely be rewriting/fleshing out the text for these later - nothing here is final copy, just as much detail as needed to capture the flavor of what we're trying to say. That way when we come back to them later and have no recollection of any of these, we can write well and in gooden Englishness for the player to actually see.

counterpoint said:
Excellent.

Done

counterpoint said:
Do we want WoT GPs? I don't know, actually.

I think what we need to do is go through the "normal" GP types and see where that leaves us. WoT GPs are chiefly a flavor benefit, so it'll depend on what we have/need. We won't know until we take care of the essentials first.

Right, that's a good place to start when we get to that part of the GP discussion then!

counterpoint said:
Not sure a C +gold versus minor gold.

B feels a little weird. Seems sort of weird to be like "hey guys, you're now stone masons". And also, the way it's flavored doesn't seem to jive with the +shadow aspect. Also, that makes all three of these options +Happiness, which doesn't seem like the best option.

That said.... I don't really know what to suggest. We definitely do need a shadow option.. I think.

Given the restriction that the civ must be unhappy to see this Thread, I figured any choice that didn't give the player happiness in some way was likely to be ignored. I was thinking B was more like "forced labor," we could definitely tweak the language to make that more clear.

counterpoint said:
like it! i do think sciemce for C is cool

Done

counterpoint said:
well, we've dropped ALL costs now!

Done

counterpoint said:
Foreign Soldiers
yeah, that's probably alright. UUs are pretty sexy though...

UUs are quite splashy, but I'm thinking it's a random civ's UU, right? (Though only players who are in the game are possible candidates.) Rather than the Thread saying which UU the player will get. That means it's quite a high variance choice for the player (in most cases, where they can't isolate which UUs are available), since some UUs aren't as useful to other civs because they gain effectiveness by comboing with another unique/property from the same civ.

counterpoint said:
looks good! and balanced

Done

counterpoint said:
Yeah, I like these choices and I like this scale. These last two did a lot of no-cost convincing for me (because they have costs!)

Done!

counterpoint said:
OK, so what now? You going to go through and propose no-cost (mostly no-cost) versions of the existing ones, then?

May I suggest you *not* edit the "Master List*, or if you do, make a copy of it somewhere? We should probably label that the "old list" and create a new one that has the no-cost stuff - without deleting the prior efforts.

Yep, I'm happy to go through the list and propose alternatives. Also sounds good to leave the existing master list in place in case we want to refer back to it later. I've made the edits from the above post in-place in the existing master list, but when I go through all of them to no-cost-ify them I'll just post a new master list and try to mark up changes from the previous list for you to critique the changes.

I'm afraid I don't have time to do that right now, it's gotten too late! I'll be back tomorrow evening to go through those!

counterpoint · Apr 20, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Sorry, I should've said Black/Gold rather than Gold/Black. As in have the Dragonsworn be gold where the Barbarians are red, keeping the primary color of black.

Black/Purple is a possible for the Shadowspawn. I could also see something like Black/Silver working, Silver to avoid the washed out effect Bob describes with Gray. I think the intention is definitely for the Shadowspawn to look insidious and evil, whereas Lawless and Dragonsworn look more chaotic and destructive.

I like these ideas!

S3rgeus said:
5% and 90% sound good to me.

I think it's possible for Asha'men to coexist with False Dragons. My assumption is False Dragons stop spawning either once the Dragon is born or when the Last Battle starts. Which? I should put our answer in the misc summary. I think I like on LB start, since that makes the books timeline (with Logain and Taim) possible.

I'd be fine with Asha'men generating FD points 50% as often as other male channelers.

ok. let's go with these parameters, then.

S3rgeus said:
I think it should be split between the three. There should definitely be big ones for both Light and Shadow. I could see us either having some big Neutral ones as well, or making big Neutral choices very rare. Mostly because Threads are focused on Alignment, one way to make that clear would be to have the big payouts only available to players that are committed to a side. (Or at least committed enough to get a large quantity of points toward it.)

I'm tempted to make them mostly Light or Shadow.

S3rgeus said:
Agreed, some components of CiV don't make good costs for the big choices because they're not universally useful to all players, so some people get the big benefits for "free".

I'd say X power of military units is generally a good cost, because only civs currently at peace that have a large army (have just won a massive war or something) would gain from losing units. Other civs would be disadvantaged by it.

I think Food and Pop are generally good costs. Even players who are avoiding growth for happiness purposes will usually have grown their cities to the size they currently are intentionally, so denying them some tiles/specialists has significant knock-on effects. For everyone else it's a definite penalty. And a food penalty is a good one - even avoid growth civs want to be able to increase pop once they have the happiness to spare.

Totally agreed that happiness and science penalties are effective across the board, and that Gold isn't as effective.

Prestige is obviously a bad cost, because only culture victory players care about it.

Agree that Faith is a bad cost, because civs can ignore it in a lot of cases.

Pending our discussion on more specifics of Governors, I think they'll be relatively valuable, so they make effective costs. (Depending on how they're generated, possibly more effective than units.)

Costs of specific unit types are also good ones, since we can purposefully pick ones that are likely to be relevant to the bonus being received.

I think Culture is a marginally more effective cost than Faith, but not hugely. Culture is still relevant to all civs for Social Policies and Philosophical Tenets (we should probably rename them from Tenets?), but much less so than, say, Science or Food. Some civs can and do definitely ignore Culture.

Production is another one, penalties to production could potentially be enormously effective (have wide-ranging influence, like a player not being able to make enough units to win a war or missing a wonder because they built too slowly). We'd probably want to apply those in a very particular way, if we use them. (So possibly not universally on one player.)

good idea with production! I think, yes, they should be specifically targeted, probably based on flavor (one city or something)

So, I'd say, then, the list of possible penalties is:

- Happiness
- Food
- Population
- Science
- Units, perhaps Governors
- Production

S3rgeus said:
Given the restriction that the civ must be unhappy to see this Thread, I figured any choice that didn't give the player happiness in some way was likely to be ignored. I was thinking B was more like "forced labor," we could definitely tweak the language to make that more clear.

OK, I guess it just feels like there's not a whole lot of reason to choose between the choices, aside from Alignment. I would prefer if at least one of them wasn't Happiness, but I'm not insisting.

S3rgeus said:
UUs are quite splashy, but I'm thinking it's a random civ's UU, right? (Though only players who are in the game are possible candidates.) Rather than the Thread saying which UU the player will get. That means it's quite a high variance choice for the player (in most cases, where they can't isolate which UUs are available), since some UUs aren't as useful to other civs because they gain effectiveness by comboing with another unique/property from the same civ.

sure. that makes sense.

S3rgeus said:
Yep, I'm happy to go through the list and propose alternatives. Also sounds good to leave the existing master list in place in case we want to refer back to it later. I've made the edits from the above post in-place in the existing master list, but when I go through all of them to no-cost-ify them I'll just post a new master list and try to mark up changes from the previous list for you to critique the changes.

I'm afraid I don't have time to do that right now, it's gotten too late! I'll be back tomorrow evening to go through those!

WOW! A 5 minute reply, this was! It's crazy, this little calm-before-the-storm. I'm assuming things will explode in fire tomorrow when we get back to regularly scheduled programming.

Also, these little breaks have enabled me to put together some thoughts on civs and uniques over the past months...

S3rgeus · Apr 21, 2015

counterpoint said:
I like these ideas!

Awesome, I've put the Dragonsworn colors in the misc summary. Do you want to put the Shadowspawn color candidates in the LB summary?

counterpoint said:
ok. let's go with these parameters, then.

Edited into the misc summary.

counterpoint said:
I'm tempted to make them mostly Light or Shadow.

This seems like a good idea to me too.

counterpoint said:
good idea with production! I think, yes, they should be specifically targeted, probably based on flavor (one city or something)

So, I'd say, then, the list of possible penalties is:

- Happiness
- Food
- Population
- Units, perhaps Governors
- Production

Sounds good!

counterpoint said:
OK, I guess it just feels like there's not a whole lot of reason to choose between the choices, aside from Alignment. I would prefer if at least one of them wasn't Happiness, but I'm not insisting.

I see what you mean, but if the Thread only ever pops up for unhappy civs, I'd say any choice that doesn't involve happiness will be automatically discounted, even more so than the player just defaulting to their given Alignment (if they have one). The Shadow one does give some Gold in exchange for getting less happiness.

Or do you mean we should take the opportunity of knowing they need happiness to offer something else in a different direction?

Regularly scheduled programming incoming.

To make comparisons to what we had before more straightforward, nothing has been straight up removed from the following master lists. Anything I propose we remove has been ~~struck through~~. Anything new is marked in blue.

As we agree on changes, I'll remove the struck through sections and remove the blue coloring.

*time passes*

This takes quite a while! I've run out of time for the evening, so I'll stop where I've gotten to now. I'll continue by editing the new posts tomorrow night!

EDIT: Just making a quick note that I need to revisit Four Kings in Shadow, I seem to have left it partially changed somehow.

S3rgeus · Apr 21, 2015

Threads of the Pattern

Threads of the Pattern are Alignment-related decisions that are presented to the player as a series of actions they can take. Each results in the player gaining (and possibly also losing) something of value, in addition to some Alignment yield lump sum.

The value of any Alignment yield lump sums are described as either "Minor +Alignment", "+Alignment", or "Major +Alignment". In that order, these correspond to a progression of Alignment value that scales with the era the player is in when they encounter the Thread.

Era After Breaking: +30, +120-160, +240-350
Era of Prophesy: +60-80, +200-240, +500-580

Ranges for the intervening eras are linear interpolations between the above ranges.

Anything that remains undecided is highlighted in red.

Format of a Thread specification:
Thread Name
Flavor: What's does the player need to address?
Choice A: the first of their available choices (mechanical consequences of choice A)
Choice B: the second, and so on (mechanical consequences of choice B)
Restrictions: Any era, instancing, unit, Alignment, tech, or other restrictions

Threads

Unrest in your Lands
Flavor: Dragonsworn are troubling your farmers and villagers. Do something about it.
Choice A: Drive them off (Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Force them to relocate their farms to near to the capital (+Food in Capitol, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Encourage the Dragonsworn zealots (+Shadow, Minor +Faith)

Accused Darkfriend
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement. The evidence supports the case of his accusers.
Choice A: Execute him (+Prestige, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Let a jury decide (+Light)
Choice C: Free him before his trial (+Shadow)

Darkfriend Escape
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement. It seems likely that he is guilty.
Choice A: Arrange his disappearance to safety abroad (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Torture him to learn of his masters (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: Accept "donations" from his supporters (Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Let your Governors decide his fate (Minor +Light)

Falsely Accused?
Flavor: A famous gleeman has been accused of being Darkfriend. He claims to be innocent and beseeches you for aid, fleeing death at the hands of his former audiences. The public is convinced of his guilt, but the evidence is inconclusive.
Choice A: Execute him (+Shadow, Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: Order further investigation (+Light)
Choice C: Decree his innocence and host a performance with him as its star (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Help him escape the country (+Prestige, Minor +Light)

Commissioned Artwork
Flavor: A controversial artist wishes for you to consider his work to adorn your courtrooms and palace.
Choice A: Turn him away (Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: Accept his artwork (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Arrange for his work to go "missing" (Minor +Culture, +Shadow)

Famine Near <city you own here>
Flavor: People are starving in the outlying villages near <city>
Choice A: Send stockpiled supplies from elsewhere in your empire(+Food in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Your people must never be hungry! Organize a national charity drive to direct all available food to those most needy. (-Production in Capital, +2 Pop in <city>, Major +Light)
Choice C: Use the famine as an excuse to raise taxes throughout your lands. (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice D: Smugglers near <city> can be convinced to spare some supplies in exchange for leniency (+Food, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have three or more cities

Looming Threat
Flavor: The Blight never sleeps and its borders must be constantly policed. You are asked to send soldiers to <CS on the Blightborder> in order to help keep the Shadow at bay.
Choice A: Refuse (+Shadow, +Happiness)
Choice B: Send soldiers (Sacrifice X power of military units, + Influence with <CS>, +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Hire mercenaries to go instead of your national army (Minor +Influence with <CS>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must have met a CS with lands bordering the Blight

Emissary from the Tower
Flavor: An emissary from the White Tower has arrived at your capital. She expects to have an audience with you.
Choice A: Have your eyes and ears pilfer secrets from her possessions while you meet with her (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Greet the Sister with a grand ceremony (Minor +Tower Influence, Minor +Culture)
Choice C: Meet with her at a formal dinner (Minor +Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must have met the Tower

Guilt by Association
Flavor: A Sister from the White Tower has been residing in your capital for some time. She is working with a suspected Darkfriend scholar, apparently expecting you to stay your hand rather than risk retribution from Tar Valon if you move against her.
Choice A: Blackmail the Sister in exchange for her secrets (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Alert the Tower (+Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice C: If moving against the Sister is diplomatically precarious, we can always arrest the scholar, confiscating his research (Minor +Science, Minor +Prestige, +Light)
Restriction: must have met the Tower

Cost of Progress
Flavor: Two inventors both claim to have made improvements to the simple horse-drawn carriage, allowing more goods to be transported by fewer horses. They have petitioned for the blessing of the crown to continue this research further. Rumors abound that one of the researcher's conduct has been unethical, but his improvements seem more effective.
Choice A: More effective one (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: More ethical one (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
Choice C: These designs would fetch a high price on the international market! (+Gold, +Shadow)

Imported Luxury
Flavor: Your people clamor for <insert resource you don't have>.
Choice A: Propaganda campaign claiming <resource> is immoral and <other resource you have> is better, to convince people they're better off (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Research alternatives to <resource> that fulfill the same needs (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Smugglers can bring <resource> in from abroad (+Happiness, +Shadow)

Conscription
Flavor: Your advisers have recommended you conscript more soldiers for the war effort.
Choice A: Conscript far and wide - we need the men! (+Military Units, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Conscript villagers from border towns in nearby civilizations (Minor +Military units, +Shadow)
Choice C: Simply recruit your enemy's people - send agents to incite a revolt in their cities (Lawless spawn near enemy, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We are a volunteer only army in this here kingdom (+Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must be at war with a major civ

Hero in the Pattern
Artur Hawkwing has been ripped from the World of Dreams and now exists in the Pattern, isolated in Shadowspawn territory.
Option A: Warn nearby allies so that they can come to his aid (+Prestige, +Light)
Option B: He is out of your reach (+Shadow)
Option C: Send your eyes and ears to study his tactics, but do not lend aid (+Science, Major +Shadow)
Option D: Mount a daring rescue into Shadowspawn territory to retrieve the fallen Hero (Sacrifice X power of Military units, Gain Hawkwing unit, +Culture, +Prestige, Major +Light)
Restriction: one global instance, reach Era of Encroaching Blight

Variants of the above for other Heroes

Ter'Angreal Cache
Flavor: Your scholars have discovered an ancient hoard of Items of Power, potentially more powerful than any found since the Age of Legends. However, those who hold them exhibit increased aggression.
Choice A: Send them to the Tower (+Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Take them into your possession (+Culture, +Prestige)
Choice C: Sell them (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice D: Have them destroyed (Major +Light)

Rogue Coven
Flavor: Discovered a sizable group of unregulated female channelers living in your capital.
Choice A: Report them to the Tower (+Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Leave them alone (+1 Spark, +Light)
Choice C: Conscript them into your army (Gain Wilder/Kin units, Minor +Shadow)

Class Warfare
Flavor: Reports indicate that the Nobility of your civilization are harassing and assaulting commoners.
Choice A: Legalize their conduct (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice B: Criminalize their conduct (Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Do nothing (Minor +Shadow)

Slave Trade
Flavor: Your patrols have found a merchant from another land transporting your smallfolk to be sold as slaves!
Choice A: Hang the merchant and free your people. Increase patrols in this area (+1 Pop in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Demand a percentage of his profits (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Let the merchant go, but free your people (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Hang the merchant and start up your own slave trade (-Happiness, Major +Gold, Major +Shadow)

Four Kings in Shadow
Flavor: You have discovered that a village in your empire has a troubling proportion of Darkfriends
Choice A: Order a Magistrate to investigate the matter (+Light)
Choice B: Leave them alone (+Shadow)
Choice C: Begin funneling them money and weapons (Gain military units, Major +Shadow)

Unruly House
Flavor: A Rival house is plotting against you and undermining your authority
Choice A: Exile them, seizing their lands and titles (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Offer them a position of leadership in your palace (Minor -Gold, Free Governor, +Light)
Choice C: Bury them under a landslide of provisions requests for the coming winter (+Food, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Extend their lands and wealth to gain their loyalty (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Stasis Box
Flavor: Your scholars have uncovered a stasis box. Unsettling sounds are heard inside
Choice A: open it! (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: don't open it! Send it to the Tower (+Tower Influence, +Light)
Choice C: destroy it (Major +Light)

Foreign Preacher
Flavor: A missionary of <foreign path> has been aggressively spreading his nonsense in your city.
Choice A: Have him thrown in prison (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: This heresy must be punished, rouse your followers to cast him out (Major +Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: Allow him to construct a shrine (Major +Light, Minor +Happiness, +Pressure from <foreign path>)
Choice D: Let him be (Minor +Light)
Restriction: Must have founded a religion that still exists in your territory

Resources Discovered
Flavor: One of your Lords has discovered <relevant strategic resource> on his estate.
Choice A: Good for him! (+Gold from international trade routes, +Light)
Choice B: Take possession of the land (+2 <resource>, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Demand a significant tax be paid to your treasury (+Gold)

Refugees
Flavor: Refugees from the wars in <neighboring civ> have come seeking asylum in your capitol
Choice A: Allow them to stay (+1 Pop in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Strip them of what little they have and send them on (+Food in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice C: Allow them to stay, providing they serve as low-wage workers. (+Production in capital, Minor +Light)
Restriction: A nearby civ must be at war with another civ (not you)

Retainer is a Monarch
Flavor: You have discovered that one of your servants is actually the former Monarch of <extinct civ>, serving you out of fear for their life.
Choice A: let them continue their deception (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Remove them from their current duties and appoint them to public office (-Production in capital, Free Governor, +Light)
Choice C: send them home in exchange for a bounty, to be executed by their conquerors (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice D: Publicly acknowledge their position and make your capital the new center for <extinct civ> heritage (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Restriction: At least one civilization must have been eliminated

Troubling Origins
Flavor: You have discovered shocking pieces of history of your people
Choice A: bury the truth (Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: let everyone know their true heritage (Minor +Culture, +Light)
Choice C: claim these history belongs to a rival populace (+Prestige, Minor +Happiness, Major +Shadow)

Shady Merchants
Flavor: You have learned that some merchants in your cities are breaking their contracts for delivering well known goods from your lands abroad.
Choice A: have them hanged (+Prestige, +Light)
Choice B: It's none of your business (Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Force the Guild to terminate their membership (+Culture, +Light)
Choice D: Demand a share of their profits (+Gold, +Shadow)

Shady Adviser
Flavor: A mysterious academic has arrived at your court. She is brilliant and offers her services. There is also something strangely unsettling about her.
Choice A: Take her into your service (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Send her away (+Light)
Choice C: Expose her as a Darkfriend and force her to reveal her secrets (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)

Guild Mistake
Flavor: An Artisans' Guild has made a terrible mistake, and several workers have died.
Choice A: Cover up the mistake, so your people never know (+Shadow)
Choice B: Declare a National Feastday in the workers' honor (+Food in capital, +Light)
Choice C: Enforce regulations that will prevent such mistakes in the future (+Culture, Minor +Light)

Darkfriends for Sale
Flavor: A stranger has discovered the names of supposed darkfriends living in your capitol and will sell them to you for a high price.
Choice A: Accept his offer (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: 'Question' him, warn the darkfriends (+Shadow)
Choice C: Decline - we do not condone extortion (+Light)
Choice D: Exile him and publicize your zero-tolerance for witch-hunts (+Faith)

Future False Dragon
Flavor: A young man is being declared the next dragon by a village, but hasn't yet personally made a claim.
Choice A: Find him and Gentle him (+Tower influence, +Light)
Choice B: Convince him he is the Dragon, and send him to another civilization. (-Gold, Major +Shadow, False Dragon appears near random civ)
Choice C: Ignore him, he has done nothing yet. (+Culture,Minor +Light)
Choice D: Encourage these rumors (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Tolerance only

Abandoned Post
Flavor: An entire company of your troops abandoned their duty. They have been caught and await your sentencing as deserters.
Choice A: Grant them amnesty (Minor +Light, Gain one military unit)
Choice B: They must hang and serve as an example for your armies (+EXP for X units, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: To prison for them! (Minor +Faith, +Light)

Channeler on the Run
Flavor: A powerful Wilder has arrived at your palace, on the run from a mob for the crime of channeling.
Choice A: Grant her asylum and notify the Tower (+Tower Influence +Light)
Choice B: Conscript her into your forces (Gain Wilder unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her (Minor +Happiness)
Choice D: Give her to her pursuers (+Faith, +Shadow)
Restriction. Fear only

Dangerous Foretelling
Flavor: A channeler claims to have Foretold your downfall.
Choice A: Invite her to your palace and seek her counsel (+Culture, +Light)
Choice B: Spread rumors, discrediting her (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Make her 'disappear' (+Shadow)
Restriction: Tolerance only

Overworked Scholars
Flavor: Your Science Minister claims that great progress may be made if your scholars are required to work through the festival season.
Choice A: Great idea (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Fire your minister (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Do nothing (+Happiness)

Tax on Belief
Flavor: Your <Early Faith Buildings> are flush with donations from your people. One of your advisers has implied you could siphon gold off to fund your government.
A . Do it (Minor +Gold, +Shadow)
B . Fire your adviser (+Faith, +Light)
C . We have no need for these places, shutter them and let the people direct their wealth elsewhere (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Ogier Writer
Flavor: An Ogier scholar would like to write a history of your rule.
Choice A: Embellish the truth (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Tell only the truth (+Prestige, +Light)
Choice C: Bribe the Ogier to write as you direct (+Culture, +Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice D: He should write about much nobler figures. Loan him a team of scholars to assist his efforts (-Science, Receive <Great Writer equivalent>, Major +Light)

Governor in Scandal
Flavor: One of your Governors is embroiled in a corruption scandal.
Choice A: Force her to resign and replace her (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Make the scandal go away, in exchange for some extra revenue (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her and do not replace her, investigating the city's political situation (Governor in <city> dies, Minor +Science, +Faith, Major +Light)

Nym Guardian
Your scholars have found a valuable cache of artifacts, guarded by one if the legendary Nym.
A . Send scholars to retrieve the creature for study (+Science, +Shadow)
B . Leave the construct in peace (Major +Light)
C . Kill the creature and take its artifacts (Minor +Science, +Culture, Major +Shadow)

Trapped in Time
Flavor: A village of formerly ordinary folk have been trapped in a Bubble of Evil, murdering one another in the night and reawakening, unscathed, in their beds the next morning.
Choice A: Fortify the border of the town and allow no one in or out (Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Unleash them on the Shadowspawn (Gain One Military Unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Order your troops into the village to be killed, creating an immortal legion (-Happiness, Gain 4 military units, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Put your scholars to work, there must be a way to free them from the curse. (Minor +Science, Major +Light)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Spoilage
Flavor: The Dark One's influence is spoiling your people's food and your farmers need aid to produce enough for everyone.
Choice A: We cannot help (Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Send soldiers to help till the fields (Sacrifice X Strength of Units, +Food, +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Subsidize farming efforts to increase production (+Food, Major +Light)
Choice D: Appeal to the Dark One's forces for aid. (+Food, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Inquisition
Flavor: One of your advisers has suggested that groups of sculptors are potentially harboring Darkfriends and should be put to the Question.
Choice A: Questions for everyone (+Shadow)
Choice B: Only Question those you are certain are Darkfriends (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Putting our people to the Question will only engender hatred in them. (Minor +Happiness, +Light)

Pledged to the Shadow
Flavor: One of your eyes and ears believes the leader-elect of <city state> has pledged himself to the service of the Shadow, but he has no hard evidence. The new leader is to be crowned tomorrow, what should your agent do?
Choice A: Expose the alleged corruption before he is crowned (Minor +Light)
Choice B: Assassinate him (+Shadow)
Choice C: Send cordial greeting to <city state>, welcoming their new leader (+Influence with <city state>, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Continue surveillance and prepare to act against the crowned monarch if he is truly in service to the Dark One. (+Light)

Volunteer Construction
Flavor: A group of volunteer citizens have begun to construct a <early faith building> in <city without that building>.
Choice A: It is wonderful to see these people working together. (Minor +Light, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>)
Choice B: Send workers to help with construction (-Production in <city>, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>, +Faith, +Light)
Choice C: Disband these commoners, we have no need of a shrine (+Shadow)
Choice D: There is more important work to be done. (A worker appears near <city without that building>)
Restriction: Must have a city without <building>

Alternates of the above could exist for any building type, just swap out all instances of the word "faith" for the appropriate yield for the building in question. We'd probably want to choose only a subset of buildings to allow this to spawn for.

Organized Cult
Flavor: Many of your citizens have been taken in by a cult that worships the Shadow, calling the Dark One a savior.
Choice A: They must be brought to see the error of their ways. Re-educate them (+Light)
Choice B: Perhaps they can help rediscover some of the Shadow's lost, more "scholarly" secrets. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Encourage this cult (+Faith, +Shadow)

Source of Food
Flavor: Some of your forces ranging in the Blight have found that Trolloc meat can sustain a man as well as normal food, but your scholars caution longer term side effects of consuming Shadowspawn.
Choice A: Consume away, our men need their strength in the Blight! (Minor +Food, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Caution your soldiers to only consume Trolloc meat in the direst of circumstances (Gain 1 Military unit)
Choice C: That sounds like a good source of food for the winter. (+Food, +Shadow)
Choice D: Outlaw consumption of Trolloc meat. (+Light)
Restriction: Must border on the Blight

Unethical Scholar
Flavor: A scholar has been denounced by his fellows for unethical conduct, but his research appears to be bearing fruit.
Choice A: Take what results he has so far, but prevent him from pursuing his research. (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Throw out his research and exile him. (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Protect him from this outrageous slander. (+Science, +Shadow)

A Chosen Portrait
Flavor: An artist has caused quite a stir auctioning off her take on portraits of the Forsaken from the War of Power. She has offered to donate a piece to your collection.
Choice A: Thank her profusely (Receive <craft GW>, +Shadow)
Choice B: Accept, but store the piece out of sight (+Prestige)
Choice C: Politely Refuse (+Light)
Choice D: Accept, but sell the piece on (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: must have a free craft GW slot somewhere

Honored General
Flavor: A local lord has used his military expertise as a former soldier to protect his village from a Lawless assault.
Choice A: Recognize his feat and give him greater authority (Free <martial Governor type>, +Light)
Choice B: He claims to have retired, but you can never truly leave my army. Conscript him. (Gain 1 Great Captain, +Shadow)

Endangering the Dragon
Flavor: The Dragon is due to visit your capital on the morrow. One of the Forsaken have approached you and offered you significant compensation meet with him in secret during his visit.
Choice A: Warn the Dragon (+Prestige, Major +Light)
Choice B: Do Nothing (+Shadow)
Choice C: Arrange the meeting (Major +Gold, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: the Dragon must have been born

Miscounted Revenue
Flavor: Your clerks have been recounting taxes and found a clerical error, you have collected more gold from your citizens than originally intended.
Choice A: Our coffers overfloweth, we must give it back (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Donate the excess to scholarly endeavors (+Science)
Choice C: That's very fortunate, adjust our ledgers accordingly (+Gold, +Shadow)

A Curse or Gift?
Flavor:It has been discovered that a Lieutenant in the City Watch has the ability to sense violence, and track it, miraculously. He asserts that this ability has nothing to do with the Power.
Choice A: This is a creature of the Dark One! He must hang. (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: This Sniffer could be useful (+Light)
Choice C: Let this man live, but he must leave your lands (+Prestige)
Restriction: Fear only

Guild of Thief-Takers
Flavor: Your City Watch has failed to keep crime in check. A band of Thief-Takers has offered to help.
Choice A: Allow them to aid your city guard (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: They seem like they could pull their weight as forced labor instead (+Production in <city>, +Shadow)
Choice C: Use them to confiscate the thieves' contraband (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: must be unhappy

Training the Heirs
Flavor: The White Tower has requested that you send the sons and daughters of the royal family to train with their Aes Sedai and Warders.
Choice A: Their place is here, with our people (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Very well (+Tower Influence)
Choice C: Certainly, but instruct the youth to actively spy on the Tower (+Tower Influence, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority

A Part of No Nation
Flavor: A remote region of your empire has begun running their own government and neglecting their duties to the Crown. They are clear to state that they are not in open rebellion.
Choice A: They are doing little harm. Let them feel important (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can't do this! Send the troops (+Shadow, +Prestige)
Choice C: Send a new governor and a fleet of tax collectors to put things in order (lose one governor, Gain <Great Merchant equivalent>)
Restriction: Must have a city at least X tiles away from the capital

Luck of the Dark One
Flavor: One of your generals is winning battles due to preposterous luck. Your other leaders have become suspicious and worry about involvement from the Witches.
Choice A: Nonsense. This man is simply a genius. (+Prestige)
Choice B: He must be exiled - he could be a traitor! (Sacrifice 1 Great Captain, + Faith, +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: It sounds like he would make a sound financial adviser (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Reassign him so that he can co-ordinate attacks against the Shadowspawn, well away from the public eye (+Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must have a Great Captain, must be Fear

The master Threads list continues in Part 2 of this post.

S3rgeus · Apr 21, 2015

Wilder's Block
Flavor: Several of your channelers are performing under expectations because they suffer from unfortunate Blocks.
Choice A: These women need to train in the Tower (+Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Perhaps your scholars can help (+EXP to X Wilder/Kin units)
Choice C: These women are simply getting weak. They must harden themselves. (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have met the Tower. Must have at least one Wilder/Kin unit

Stilled Aes Sedai
Flavor: You have learned that a trusted adviser is in fact a former Aes Sedai who had the Spark burned out of her in an accident. Now that you have the capability, she has asked to have her Ability restored, and be allowed to leave your service.
Choice A: She is too valuable. She must stay (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice B: Of course, have one of your channelers Heal her (Sacrifice one Governor, Minor +Happiness, Gain 1 Sister unit, +Light)
Choice C: Have one of your channelers Heal her, but request she remain your adviser. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Contact the Tower to perform this service. (Minor +Tower Influence)
Restriction: Must have discovered <tech that unlocks Gentling Cure>

Legendary Sister
Flavor: A sister of advanced age and mythic status has emerged in your capital city. She may offer your aid, but your advisers caution you that she answers to no one, not even the Tower.
Choice A: This woman will foster instability. Her meddling must be kept far away from your affairs (Minor +Shadow, +Happiness)
Choice B: Whatever the risk, this Sister represents a source of power. We must learn what we can from her (+Culture, Minor +Science)
Choice C: Petition her for secrets to help drive the Shadowspawn back into the Blight. (+Science, +Light)
Restriction: Must be Authority

Dai'shan
Flavor: One of your soldiers claims to be a descendent of the royal line of [extinct civ]. He has been gathering troops to one day restore his homeland to its former glory.
Choice A: This is a noble errand. Allow him to take some soldiers as an honor guard (Sacrifice X strength of units, +Culture, +Faith, Major +Light)
Choice B: This sounds a lot like rebellion. He must be imprisoned before something bad happens (+Shadow)
Choice C: Bring him into your council, and declare your kingdom to be the heir apparent to his fallen land (+Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We will not stand in his way. (Minor +Faith)
Restriction: A civ must have gone extinct, but not because of the player

A Viewing
A young woman in your capital apparently has the ability to View people's fates and know their futures. Your advisers recommend you use her to help find those destined for greatness.
Choice A: Send her to the Academies (+ X Great Scientist [equivalent] Points)
Choice B: Send her to the Artisans (+ X Great Artist [equivalent] Points)
Choice C: Send her to the battlefields (+ X Great Captain Points)
Choice D: Do nothing. These people must be discovered by themselves (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Not Fear

Esteemed Bard
Flavor: A Gleeman of legendary reputation has journeyed to your court. He apparently has a troubled history with one of your nobles.
Choice A: Appoint him your Bard, despite your noble's emotional protestations (Lose one governor, Gain <Great Musician equivalent>, Minor +Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Your first duty is to your own people - the Bard must go (Minor +Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Hire him for one elaborate celebration and send him on his way (+Culture)

Where the Shadow Waits
Flavor: A Peddler has come into your capital with impressive wares at a good price. However, he has a disturbing, sinister aura that one of your advisers believes is like the curse of Mashadar.
Choice A: Let this man sell his wares, and leave (Minor +Culture, Minor +Gold)
Choice B: A creature such as this cannot be allowed to roam free. He must be investigated and tried if found guilty of misdeeds (+Faith, +Light)
Choice C: This man obviously has valuable connections. Bring him into your service, cursed or not! (Minor -Happiness, Gain <Great Merchant equivalent>, +Shadow)
Restriction: Shadar Logoth must exist

Cursed Item
Flavor: One of your soldiers got lost in Shadar Logoth and has returned in one piece... but is eerily and fatally attached to an object he found there.
Choice A: This man must be sent to the Tower for Healing (+Light, +Tower Influence)
Choice B: Your scholars have much to learn from a curse such as this (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: Take the dagger from him and display it in your palace (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Shadar Logoth must exist

Captain without a King
Flavor: A Great Captain, has fled his homeland, accused of war crimes by his own people, despite his tactical genius. He has offered his services for your military.
Choice A: It sounds like he could very helpful to our cause (-Happiness, Gain one Great Captain, Major +Shadow)
Choice B: No - he will probably betray you. To prison with him. (Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send him back to his homeland to face justice (+Happiness, Major +Light)
Choice D: We can still use him, just keep him out of the public eye (+EXP for X units, +Shadow)

Foreign Soldiers
Flavor: An adept band of exotic foreign warriors has become enamored with your cause, and offer to join you.
Choice A: No, we prefer to use our own citizens (+Faith)
Choice B: They will make an excellent addition to our forces (Gain 1 Unique Unit of a different Civ)
Choice C: Turn these men over to their King as traitors (+Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Some other civilization must have a Unique Unit that is currently producible.

Nightmare Walker
Flavor: You have heard of a strange and powerful man that wanders the World of Dreams, haunting some of your people in the night.
Choice A: Seek the Tower's help - maybe they can catch him (+Tower Influence)
Choice B: Dedicate a few of your own channelers to protect your lands in the Dream, ensuring your people sleep easier (+Faith, +Light)
Choice C: Some scholars are investigating ways of inducing sleep without dreams, people have no need for such distractions. Send those affected as test subjects. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: An outcast warrior claims he can manipulate the World of the Dream with his mind and has offered to fight this man if you lend aid. (Sacrifice X power of units, gain Wolfbrother unit, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Not Oppression

Legendary Traveler
Flavor: You have learned that one of your soldiers is, in fact, an esteemed world traveller.
Choice A: He has chosen this simple life, and should be allowed to live it. (Minor +Light, +Faith)
Choice B: Encourage your bards to tell tales of his travels (Minor +Culture)
Choice C: Claim the stories of his travels as your own (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice D: Imprison him until he writes a compendium of his adventures (-Happiness, Gain Great Writer, +Shadow)

Mysterious Door
Flavor: Your scholars have come into possession of a doorframe Ter'angreal with surprising powers. Apparently, entering it will yield amazing knowledge - but at what cost?
Choice A: Enter it yourself (Minor +shadow, +Prestige)
Choice B: Require your scholars to enter it (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: Hide this abomination in your deepest holds (+Light)
Choice D: give it to the Tower (+Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must have discovered the Tower

Shrewd Leader
Flavor: The leader of <nearby CS> has demonstrated her political prowess, often gaining a surprising upper hand in relations with other civs.
Choice A: Pledge your support to her and her sovereignty (+Influence with <nearby CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: She would serve you well as an adviser - make it so (Major -Influence with <nearby CS>, +Governor, +Shadow)
Choice C: Perhaps her wisdom can inform your own rule - send your advisers to her court (+Culture, Minor +Influence with <nearby CS>)
Restriction: must have a CS adjacent your civ's borders

Diplomatic Crisis
Flavor: The Council of Lords in <CS> has once again failed to come to consensus on who should be their First. They seek guidance from you.
Choice A: Stay out of their affairs (Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: Send a delegation to assist their efforts (+Influence with <CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send a delegation, but charge them an arbitration fee (Minor +Influence with <CS>, Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)

Homage to the High King
Flavor: The people's opinion of the High King is at an all time high, and you have an opportunity to capitalize on that.
Choice A: Claim some worthless trinkets are heirlooms belonging to the High King's family and sell them to the highest bidder (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice B: Encourage merchants to trade goods the High King's nation is famous for far and wide (+GP points (<Great Merchant equivalent> in capital))
Choice C: Arrange for a royal parade on the streets of your capital, where the High King shall greet the people in person (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Restriction: There must currently be a High King

Crowns and Swords
Flavor: One of your finest goldsmiths has offered to forge a crown for you fit for a High King.
Choice A: You should look your part as ruler (+Prestige)
Choice B: We can force this goldsmith to make more salable wares (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: The goldsmith can advise other smiths on his technique, improving metalworking for everyone (+Production in capital, +Light)
Restriction: There must have been or currently be a High King in this game

Play at Power
Flavor: One of your Eyes and Ears reports that one of the High King's advisers is likely plotting against his majesty's life.
Choice A: Warn the High King (+Prestige, Major +Light)
Choice B: Sell the name of the adviser to the High King's government (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Game of Houses is dangerous, perhaps this adviser could have an "accident" (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: There must be a High King and he must not be you

King of All
Flavor: The Blight grows restless and, as the High King, you wield enough power to rouse the nations against any Shadowspawn that seek to range beyond their home.
Choice A: Muster your forces and urge the Provinces to step up their defenses, sending men and supplies to the Blightborder (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: If the Borderlanders are willing to hand over some of their weapons technology, you could be convinced to help find troops for the war effort (-Happiness, Free technology, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Borderlanders will fight and die as they always do, we can thrive in peace while they defend us (+Food and +Production in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: The High King should lead from the front. Lead your armies in victory against the Shadowspawn. (+Prestige, Minor +Happiness, Major +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King

Seafaring Progeny
Flavor: One of your children wishes to expand your kingdom by sailing across the sea and claiming a new continent in the name of the High King.
Choice A: Send your child off with a grand ceremony (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: We can certainly build ships, but they are better off defending our waters than sailing off into the unknown (Gain naval units, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Send some of your best advisers along too. They will be missed at home, but their departure marks the beginning of a new era for your reign. (-Production in capital, Golden Age Begins, +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King, must have a coastal city

Endless Tides
Flavor: The Trollocs' attacks are taking their toll on your soldiers' faith in the Creator. Rumors of mutiny and desertion abound in your forces.
Choice A: Scholars in our land should benefit from the honor of sponsoring this journey (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: Artists in our land should benefit from the honor of sponsoring this journey (Sacrifice X strength of units, Gain <Great Prophet equivalent>, Major +Shadow)
Choice C: The faithful of our land should benefit from the honor of sponsoring this journey (Minor +EXP, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars must be happening or you must be declared for the Light during the Last Battle

Delayed Harvest
Flavor: Many of your farmers have been conscripted into your armies to fight the Trollocs. There is a serious risk of those who remain being unable to pull in a harvest before winter.
Choice A: Redirect your capital's city guard to help with the harvest (+Food in capital, +Light)
Choice B: Your inventors are excited about a new invention that makes mills more efficient, see if they can't make do with the farmers we have (Minor +Science)
Choice C: We can send more soldiers home to till their fields if we lure the Shadowspawn to more valuable targets abroad (+Food in capital, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars must be happening or you must be declared for the Light during the Last Battle

Glowbulbs and Fire
Flavor: An artifact from the Age of Legends is rumored to be buried deep in the Blight. It is supposed to hold secrets of an ancient technology for creating light, more efficient than any fire.
Choice A: Mount an expedition into the Blight to find it (Sacrifice X power of units, Free Technology, +Light)
Choice B: Sponsor a fair for your greatest inventors to improve the efficiency of torches instead (+GP points (<Great Scientist Equivalent> in capital))
Choice C: If we tell the Shadow that such power lies within their reach, the Shadowspawn may be less inclined to range out of the Blight while they search (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in Era of Freedom, must have revealed at least one tile of Blight

Across the Sea
Flavor: Rumors abound that there are new riches on unknown continents across the ocean. Various guilds have requested that you allow them to mount an expedition across the sea, offering to construct a fleet of their own to travel.
Choice A: Allow the scholars to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent> in <coastal city>))
Choice B: Allow the artists to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Artist equivalent> in <coastal city>))
Choice C: Allow the devout to man the new fleet (+Faith)
Choice D: This journey is foolish, seize the fleet once it is constructed (Gain naval units, +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in the Era of New Beginnings, must have a coastal city

Tree Poachers
Flavor: A representative of the Ogier from <nearby Stedding> has approached your court with news that loggers from your nation have been felling trees in and around their Stedding.
Choice A: This is an outrage! Outlaw the practice at once. (+Influence with <nearby Stedding>, +Light)
Choice B: The lumber they bring back from the Stedding is of highest quality and makes fine furniture (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: Sung Wood stokes forges like no other, the logging will continue with renewed vigor (-Happiness, Major +Production in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Seize the assets of any loggers who have helped cut down the Sung Wood to make the business unprofitable for them (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Must have met a Stedding (on the same continent) that is still alive

Ogier Stonemasons
Flavor: A group of renown Ogier Stonemasons have arrived in your capital. They offer their services.
Choice A: Honor them with a brief festival and let them freely return to their stedding. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can be put to work for the highest bidder (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Start a collaborative project with <stedding>, building a network of acqueducts between your lands (Minor +Influence with <stedding>, +Food, Minor +Light)
Choice D: These Ogier should stay and construct great works, and should be assisted by the learned men of your city (-Science, Gain a <Great Engineer equivalent>)
Restriction: Must have discovered a stedding on the same continent.

The Longing
Flavor: A group of Ogier have lost their stedding, and have arrived at your palace, apparently suffering greatly due to the Longing.
Choice A: These Ogier have much they could teach us about learned pursuits. They must stay and teach your scholars. (Minor +Culture, Minor +Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: They will die if they do not find a stedding. Send your scouts to find their home. (Sacrifice X strength of units, Major +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Surely these Ogier can teach your masons of their crafts before they leave. (+Production in Capital, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We cannot find their home, but certainly they will be at peace in <stedding> (+Influence with <stedding>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Obsoletes with Era of Freedom. Must have met a stedding

Cautionary Tale
Flavor: A False Dragon has risen up with an army of Dragonsworn at his back. Your people are afraid and seek guidance.
Choice A: Publicize his atrocities as a warning against any others who would call themselves the Dragon (-FD points, Minor +Light)
Choice B: The Karaethon Cycle should be better understood by your people. Have some of your scholars take time to make a copy available to your people (Minor -Science, Gain GW of Writing, +Light)
Choice C: This man represents a recruitment opportunity - take in any who will fight against him (Gain a military unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: People who are afraid are people who are easily controlled. Spread tales of the horrors of this False Dragon, and use the resulting chaos as an excuse to crack down on dissidents (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: A False Dragon you are aware of must be alive. Must have a GW of writing slot available somewhere. Saidin cannot have been cleansed.

Flourishing Inventions
Flavor: Scholars in <city> are flourishing, inventing new devices and furthering the cause of your nation.
Choice A: That's great (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent>) in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: I have need of some new weapons and they seem well suited to make them (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Scientist equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the arts also receive emphasis there (+Culture, +Light)
Restriction: must have more than one city

Flourishing Arts
Flavor: All forms of the arts are flourishing in <city>, creating new forms of expression and pushing the bounds of artistic knowledge.
Choice A: That's great (Minor +GP points to all three 'Culture' GP types in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: You must commission them for work based on yourself, and only yourself, occupying them for some months in the process (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Writer equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the sciences also receive emphasis there (+Science, +Light)

Talented Artisan
Flavor: A talented artisan has gained fame for his skill with architecture, having built several well known buildings in your capital.
Choice A: He could be convinced to work exclusively for the crown (-1 Pop in capital, Gain <Great Engineer equivalent>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: His work is much admired and should be allowed to continue (+Production in capital, +Light)
Choice C: There are more mundane things that he could be "convinced" to design for the city (Gain <building> in capital, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Close his existing structures off from the public and charge entry for people to view them (+Gold, +Shadow)

Plague at the Tower
Flavor: A plague has broken out in the city of Tar Valon. They have requested aid.
Choice A: This plague represents an opportunity for our scholars to do some questionable medical research (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Rather than let the Tower's trade lapse as merchants flee the city, reroute their trade through your lands in the interim (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send stores of food and supplies to help the sick (+Tower Influence, +Light)
Choice D: We can leverage this situation to our advantage, forcing the Tower to send more Sisters to us (-Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority

Learned Spark
Flavor: Visitors from foreign lands have been suggesting that more people may be able to channel than those whose abilities manifest visibly.
Choice A: These rumors are clearly ridiculous, publicly reassure your people they are untrue (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice B: These new channelers are clearly dangerous as well, we must research new ways to find them (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: This information will cause rioting and wanton murder, people can be distracted by a public fair, at least for a time (+Culture, +Light)
Choice D: Perhaps the people deserve to know the truth. This may cause some chaos, but this revelation will shape our people's destiny and guide them in the future (+Spark, +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression

Channeling Secret
Flavor: One of your advisers has admitted to you that she is a channeler. She has been hiding this secret for many years and now submits herself to your judgement.
Choice A: Hang her (+Happiness, +Shadow)
Choice B: This embarrassment must be kept a secret, reassign her to a remote part of your empire (Minor +Faith)
Choice C: We can study her to find ways to ferret out other channelers in hiding (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice D: This secret will remain between you and her (Major +Light)
Restriction: must be Oppression

Enslaved Channelers
Flavor: A group of slavers have been capturing channelers among your people to sell on to the highest bidder.
Choice A: Channelers are not sold, they are earned, bestowed as servants by the crown. Seize their profits and outlaw this practice. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice B: The people seem to approve of them. Carry on. (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: This kind of operation is the exclusive mandate of the crown. Reclaim the enslaved channelers as your own. (Gain Wilder unit, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Oppression

The Best of Us
Flavor: An extremely powerful female channeler has arisen from among your people. She has been Healing the sick and needy in <city you control>.
Choice A: She represents the best of us, appoint her to public office (-Food in <city>, Gain <channeling> Governor in <city>, +Light)
Choice B: Spread tales of her valor across the land (+Faith, +Light)
Choice C: She doesn't turn away anyone? There are some smugglers in need of medical care. (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Her strength must be directed to defend our lands (Gain Wilder unit, +Shadow)
Restriction: Must be Liberation

The Tainted Half
Flavor: The Taint that corrupts Saidin is a sickness in need of a cure. Male channelers in your land seek help in halting their eventual madness.
Choice A: The Taint cannot be Cleansed, but these men's lives can be made more bearable (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Dedicate your best scholars to the task, the Taint must be removed (+Science, +Light)
Choice C: A cure? the Taint allows these men to see their true selves. It should not be destroyed. (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: These men should be allowed to flourish, mad or not. Let them define our nation for eras to come! (-Food in Capital, A Golden Age begins, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, Saidin cannot have been Cleansed

Tower Demand
Flavor: The White Tower is demanding one of your government officials, a powerful female channeler, be sent to the Tower to train. They offer to send a Sister as an adviser in exchange.
Choice A: We are a sovereign nation and do not bend to the Tower. Announce your refusal to your people. (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: She has been indispensable at home, but now there is an opportunity to change the Tower from within. (Sacrifice a <channeling> Governor, Major +Tower Influence, Gain Aes Sedai unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: This is an affront. Impose tariffs on any trade with the Tower (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: The Tower should see how vulnerable non-channeler officials are. Have a foreign official assassinated and hold them up as an example of why yours can defend themselves. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Liberation, must have met the Tower, must have a <channeling> Governor

Herbs and Power
Flavor: A Wisdom in one of your villages near <city> is being harassed, accused of using the One Power to Heal people instead of herbs.
Choice A: Brand her an enemy of the state (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Send known true Wisdoms to investigate the people's claims (+Food in <city>, +Light)
Choice C: Send samples of <luxury resource you do not have that is plant-like> to this Wisdom to see if she can correctly identify it (Gain <resource>, Minor +Light)
Choice D: She will learn to use herbs after she's been Stilled (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Fear

Of Dragons and Men
Flavor: The existence of False Dragons is whipping your people into a frenzy. They seek to kill any they find.
Choice A: Stoke the flames of this hatred (-FD points, +Shadow)
Choice B: These people would be better off in a disciplined environment, like your military (Gain a military unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Denounce the False Dragon, elevating you in the eyes of your people (+Faith, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, there must be a living False Dragon you are aware of

Witches Abroad
Flavor: One of the witches from the White Tower has been sighted near <city you own>.
Choice A: The city must remain vigilant in its defenses! (Gain <walls equivalent building> in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Arrange an expedition to find her and drive her away from your lands (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: People need not fear the witches. Have one of your scribes release a memoir of your own past dealings where you bested the Tower's representatives. (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Publicly demand that the Tower stay out of your affairs (Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must be Fear, must have a city without <walls equivalent>

Advisers Unwell
Flavor: A dangerous sickness has been spreading in your capital and several of your advisers have been bedridden for weeks.
Choice A: Appeal to the Tower to Heal your scholarly adviser (+Science, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Your financial adviser claims to know a Wilder who can Heal him. Have her brought to the capital. (+Gold, +Light)
Choice C: Kidnap a Wilder and threaten to send her to the Tower if she doesn't Heal your cultural adviser. (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: A group of Wisdoms could Heal your quartermaster if offered tax incentives (+Food in capital)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have met the Tower

Ends of Madness
Flavor: Some men in the later stages of madness from the Taint on Saidin have been nonviolent and seek to live out their final days in peace.
Choice A: They can live them out in peace, but abroad, where any madness episodes will disrupt someone else's empire, not ours (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Our people will understand if we show leniency (+Golden Age points, +Light)
Choice C: These men are beyond help, and must be killed now (+Faith, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, Saidin must not have been Cleansed

Enhanced Power
Flavor: A cache of powerful items from the Age of Legends has been discovered buried near <city you own>. They enhance the channeling abilities of any channeler who wields them.
Choice A: This newfound strength could help our craftsmen in securing structures (+Production in <city>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They will make powerful weapons! (Gain 1 Ter'angreal Cache resource, +Shadow)
Choice C: We can claim these items as a part of the heritage of our people (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice D: The channelers of <city> should be able to use them for what they wish (Receive <channeling-related building> in <city>, +Light)
Restriction: must be Tolerance, must have a city that doesn't have <building>

The Threads list is continued in Part 3.

counterpoint · Apr 21, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Awesome, I've put the Dragonsworn colors in the misc summary. Do you want to put the Shadowspawn color candidates in the LB summary?

Done. I do think colors will eventually need their own section of a summary, what with all the civs and such.

S3rgeus said:
I see what you mean, but if the Thread only ever pops up for unhappy civs, I'd say any choice that doesn't involve happiness will be automatically discounted, even more so than the player just defaulting to their given Alignment (if they have one). The Shadow one does give some Gold in exchange for getting less happiness.

Or do you mean we should take the opportunity of knowing they need happiness to offer something else in a different direction?

Yeah, that last thing. I sort of think there should be a "who cares about happiness" option. For the crazies. Maybe it doesn't need to be the shadow option, though.

S3rgeus said:
To make comparisons to what we had before more straightforward, nothing has been straight up removed from the following master lists. Anything I propose we remove has been ~~struck through~~. Anything new is marked in blue.

As we agree on changes, I'll remove the struck through sections and remove the blue coloring.

*time passes*

This takes quite a while! I've run out of time for the evening, so I'll stop where I've gotten to now. I'll continue by editing the new posts tomorrow night!

EDIT: Just making a quick note that I need to revisit Four Kings in Shadow, I seem to have left it partially changed somehow.

Cool. I'll hopefully have time to go through what you've done tonight and share comments.

For the ones you haven't done, maybe I'll have time to make some suggestions.

counterpoint · Apr 22, 2015

Cool. Putting in my thoughts. If/when you respond to my thoughts, please put the Name in your response (in bold, probably), so at all times it's visible (i.e. in every second post).

S3rgeus said:
Unrest in your Lands
Flavor: Dragonsworn are troubling your farmers and villagers. Do something about it.
Choice A: Drive them off (~~-Gold,~~ Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Let them fend for themselves (+False Dragon points, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Encourage the Dragonsworn zealots (~~-Happiness,~~ +Shadow~~, X Dragonsworn appear near your border~~, Minor +Faith)

A and C look good. Is B a mistake? You are penalized with False Dragon points (yes, you're "gaining" them, but that's a bad thing), but gain minor shadow? This seems really quite awful, and you'd never do it (instead of C). It seems like it might be a holdover from the old version.

Might I suggest something like:

Choice B - Let them fend for themselves - too many mouths to feed! (Minor +Food, Minor +Shadow)

S3rgeus said:
Accused Darkfriend
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement. The evidence supports the case of his accusers.
Choice A: Execute him (+Prestige, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Let a jury decide (+Light)
Choice C: Free him before his trial (+Shadow)

looks good. When it comes time to "really" write these, I'd like the "evidence" line to have more subtlety.

S3rgeus said:
Darkfriend Escape
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement.
Choice A: Arrange his disappearance to safety abroad (Minor -Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Torture him to learn of his masters (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: Silence the accusers (-1 pop in <city you own>, +Shadow)
Choice D: Throw him in prison (Nothing)

Did you skip this one on accident? It appears to be totally "old school" in its configuration.

Possible revision (none the slight change to flavor):

Darkfriend Escape
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement. It seems likely that he is guilty.
Choice A: Arrange his disappearance to safety abroad (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Torture him to learn of his masters (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: Accept "donations" from his supporters (Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Let your Governors decide his fate (Minor +Light)

S3rgeus said:
Falsely Accused?
Flavor: ~~An alleged Darkfriend claims he has been wrongfully accused and beseeches you for aid, fleeing from death at the hands of his former friends.~~
A famous gleeman has been accused of being Darkfriend. He claims to be innocent and beseeches you for aid, fleeing death at the hands of his former audiences.
Choice A: Execute him (~~Minor~~ +Shadow, Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: ~~Finance a~~Order further investigation (+Light)
Choice C: ~~Drive off the peasants chasing him~~ Decree his innocence and host a performance with him as its star (~~Sacrifice a military unit~~+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Help him escape the country (~~Diplo penalty with one neighbor~~+Prestige, Minor +Light)

This one is fine, I think, though I think the flavor should also include something like "The Public is convinced of his guilt, but the evidence is inconclusive."

S3rgeus said:
Commissioned Artwork
Flavor: A ~~famous~~ controversial artist wishes for you to consider his work to adorn your courtrooms and palace.
Choice A: Turn him away ~~(Nothing)~~ (Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: ~~Purchase~~ Accept his artwork (~~-Gold,~~ +Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Arrange for his work to go "missing" (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)

good, but I'd suggest B provide +Culture and C provide "Minor +Culture" - maybe "+Shadow" to balance it. (this feels like, flavor-wise, the right choice, as having the actual art is culturally more impactful than making it disappear).

S3rgeus said:
Famine Near <city you own here>
Flavor: People are starving in the outlying villages near <city>
Choice A: Send ~~aid~~ stockpiled supplies from elsewhere in your empire (~~-Gold,~~ +Food, +Light)
~~Choice B: Ignore them (-1 Pop in <city>, +Shadow)~~
Choice B: Your people must never be hungry! Organize a national charity drive to direct all available food to those most needy. (-Production in Capital, +2 (3?) Pop in <city>, Major +Light)
Choice C: Incentivize merchants to trade there, in lieu of aid from the crown (~~Minor -Gold,~~ Minor +Food)
Choice D: Smugglers near <city> can be convinced to spare some supplies in exchange for leniency (+Food, Minor +Shadow)

Also, should probably have a Restriction: Must have more than one city, or a city of pop between X and Y, or something.

Just to be clear - it's +Food to one particular city, right? (in A)

+2 pop sounds good for 3.

This is another one where all the rewards are the same (like the happiness one about the Thief Takers). I don't like it... especially since there are four choices. I say either eliminate C or D, and replace it with:

Choice C/D: Use the famine as an excuse to raise prices throughout your lands. (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)

S3rgeus said:
Looming Threat
Flavor: The Blight never sleeps and its borders must be constantly policed. You are asked to send soldiers to <CS on the Blightborder> in order to help keep the Shadow at bay.
Choice A: Refuse (+Shadow, +Happiness~~, diplo hit with Blightborder civ~~)
Choice B: Send soldiers (~~Sacrifice X power of military units,~~ +Influence with <CS>, +Light)
Choice C: Hire mercenaries to go instead of your national army (Minor +Influence with <CS>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must have met a ~~civ~~ CS with lands bordering the Blight

I think this one will only work if at least *one* choice actually involves a unit sacrifice. Otherwise the flavor doesn't fit. Two competing suggestions:

A) change Choice B,making it actual need a "donation" but provide good bonuses:

Choice B: Send soldiers (Sacrifice X power of military units, + Influence with <CS>, +Happiness, +Light)

OR, reflavor it:

Diplomatic Crisis
Flavor: The Council of Lords in <CS> has once again failed to come to consensus on who should be their First. They seek guidance from you.
Choice A: Stay out of their affairs (Minor +Shadow, Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: Send a delegation to assist their efforts (+Influence with <CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send a delegation, but charge them an arbitration fee (Minor +Influence with <CS>, Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have met a CS

or... both?

S3rgeus said:
Emissary from the Tower
Flavor: An emissary from the White Tower has arrived at your capital. She expects to have an audience with you.
~~Choice A: Occupy yourself elsewhere (-Tower Influence, Minor +Shadow)~~
Choice A: Have your eyes and ears pilfer secrets from her possessions while you meet with her (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Greet the Sister with a grand ceremony (~~-Gold,~~ +Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Meet with her at a formal dinner (~~Minor -Gold,~~ Minor +Tower influence)
Restriction: must have met the Tower

suggestion:
B: (Minor +Tower Influence, Minor +Culture (no light)
C: +Tower Influence, Minor +Light

S3rgeus said:
A Tower Divided
Flavor: A Sister from the White Tower has been residing in your capital for some time. She is working with a suspected Darkfriend scholar, apparently expecting you to stay your hand rather than risk retribution from Tar Valon if you move against her.
Choice A: Blackmail the Sister in exchange for her secrets (+Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Alert the Tower (+Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice C: "Silence" your men who have knowledge of these events (~~-Gold,~~ Minor +Science, +Shadow)
~~Choice D: Have her arrested (-Tower Influence, +Light)~~
Choice D: If moving against the Sister is diplomatically precarious, we can always arrest the scholar, confiscating his research (+Science, +Light)
Restriction: must have met the Tower

I'm looking for variety here. I suggest D drop mention of his research, and just provide Prestige or something.

Also, I think we should probably not have C. Don't think the flavor works.

S3rgeus said:
Cost of Progress
Flavor: Two inventors both claim to have made improvements to the simple horse-drawn carriage, allowing more goods to be transported by fewer horses. They have petitioned for ~~sponsorship~~ the blessing of the crown to continue this research further. ~~One of the two is suspiciously more affordable than the other.~~ Rumors abound that one of the researcher's conduct has been unethical, but his improvements seem more effective.
~~Choice A: Cheaper one (Minor -Gold, +Science, +Shadow)~~
Choice A: More effective one (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: More ~~expensive~~ ethical one (~~-Gold,~~ Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
~~Choice C: Our carriages work just fine as they are, thank you (Nothing)~~

I do think there is a place for something like

Choice C: These designs would fetch a high price on the international market! (+Gold, +Shadow)

S3rgeus said:
Imported Luxury
Flavor: Your people clamor for <insert resource you don't have>. A merchants' guild have offered to supply it for significantly less than market price, though their practices have been suspect in the past. Foreign governments are willing to trade for a fair price.
Choice A: Propaganda campaign claiming <resource> is immoral and <other resource you have> is better, to convince people they're better off (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
~~Choice B: Purchase trading rights from foreign diplomat (-Gold, +Happiness, Minor +Light)~~
Choice B: Research alternatives to <resource> that fulfill the same needs (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
~~Choice C: Purchase from shady merchants (Minor -Gold, +Happiness, +Shadow)~~
Choice C: Smugglers can bring <resource> in from abroad (+Happiness, +Shadow)
~~Choice D: Ignore your people's demands - let them learn who is in charge (Minor -Happiness, Minor +Gold)~~

good.

S3rgeus said:
Conscription
Flavor: Your advisers have recommended you conscript more soldiers for the war effort.
Choice A: Conscript far and wide - we need the men! (~~-Happiness,~~ +Military Units, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Conscript villagers from border towns in nearby civilizations (Minor +Military units, +Shadow~~, Diplo hit with neighbors~~)
Choice C: ~~Tempt the Dragonsworn to your cause with coin~~ Spread tales of your enemy's lack of faith that the Dragon will ever stand against the Dark One, turning the Dragonsworn against them (~~-Gold,~~ Dragonsworn spawn near enemy, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We are a volunteer only army in this here kingdom (+Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must be at war with a major civ

C should probably spawn Lawless, not DS.

S3rgeus said:
Hero in the Pattern
Artur Hawkwing has been ripped from the World of Dreams and now exists in the Pattern, isolated in Shadowspawn territory.
~~Option A: Send soldiers to help him (Sacrifice X strength of units, receive Hawkwing military unit, +Light)~~
Option A: Warn nearby allies so that they can come to his aid (+Prestige, +Light)
Option B: ~~Abandon him to the Shadow~~ He is out of your reach (~~Major~~ +Shadow)
~~Option C: Rescue and Elevate Hawkwing in your Government (Minor -Gold and sacrifice X strength of units, gain <martial Governor type> Governor, +Prestige, Major +Light)~~
Option C: Send your eyes and ears to study his tactics, but do not lend aid (+Science, Major +Shadow)
Option D: Mount a daring rescue into Shadowspawn territory to retrieve the fallen Hero (Sacrifice X power of Military units, Gain Hawkwing unit, +Culture, +Prestige, Major +Light)
Restriction: one global instance, reach Era of Encroaching Blight

Variants of the above for other Heroes

Quite possible the rewards for D will be too much. Maybe eliminate the Culture element?

S3rgeus said:
Ter'Angreal Cache
Flavor: Your scholars have discovered an ancient hoard of Items of Power, potentially more powerful than any found since the Age of Legends. However, those who hold them exhibit increased aggression.
Choice A: Send them to the Tower (+Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Take them into your possession (+Culture, +Prestige)
Choice C: Sell them (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice D: Have them destroyed (Major +Light)

Good. i wonder - should B be +minor shadow?

S3rgeus said:
Rogue Coven
Flavor: Discovered a sizable group of unregulated female channelers living in your capital.
Choice A: Report them to the Tower (~~-1 Spark for X turns,~~ +Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Leave them alone (~~Gain Wilder/Kin units, -Tower Influence,~~ +1 Spark, +Light)
Choice C: Conscript them into your army (~~-Tower influence, +1 Spark,~~ Gain Wilder/Kin units, Minor +Shadow)

is B's Spark permanent?

S3rgeus said:
Class Warfare
Flavor: Reports indicate that the Nobility of your civilization are harassing and assaulting commoners.
Choice A: Legalize their conduct (~~-Happiness,~~ +Gold, +Shadow)
Choice B: Criminalize their conduct (~~-GPT for X turns,~~ Minor +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Do nothing (Minor +Shadow)

Nobody would ever take C, I think (why not A?). Suggestion:

Choice C: Do nothing - this is who we are! (Minor +Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Also, that fits in-universe, I think.

S3rgeus said:
Slave Trade
Flavor: Your patrols have found a merchant from another land transporting your smallfolk to be sold as slaves!
Choice A: Hang the merchant and free your people. Increase patrols in this area (~~-Gold and sacrifice X power of units,~~ +1 Pop in <city>, ~~+Happiness,~~ +Light)
Choice B: Demand a percentage of his profits (+Gold, ~~-Happiness,~~ +Shadow)
Choice C: Let the merchant go, but free your people (~~+1 Pop in <city>,~~ Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Hang the merchant and start up your own slave trade (-Happiness, Major +Gold, Major +Shadow)

great

S3rgeus said:
Four Kings in Shadow
Flavor: You have discovered that an entire village is apparently full of Darkfriends
Choice A: Send your troops to burn the place down (-1 Pop in <city>, Major +Shadow, Gain two missionaries)
Choice B: Order a Magistrate to investigate the matter (+Light)
Choice C: Leave them alone (+Shadow)
Choice D: Begin funneling them money and weapons (~~-Happiness,~~ Gain military units, Major +Shadow)

OK, you didn't get a chance to finish this one. My take on it:

I'd tweak the flavor a bit, saying that the village has a troublingly high number of DFs, or something.

Honestly, I think perhaps the simplest solution is to simply axe A. There's no way to have that one make sense without a downside, and the potential upside isn't worth having it be one of the "cost" ones.

S3rgeus said:
Unruly House
Flavor: A Rival house is plotting against you and undermining your authority
Choice A: Exile them, seizing their lands and titles (+Gold, ~~-Happiness, Very~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Offer them a position of leadership in your palace (Minor -Gold, Free Governor, ~~Minor~~ +Light)
~~Choice C: Publicly shame them (Minor -Gold, +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)~~
Choice C: Bury them under a landslide of provisions requests for the coming winter (+Food, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Extend their lands and wealth to gain their loyalty (~~-Gold,~~ +Culture, ~~+Pop in <city>,~~ Minor +Shadow)

Actually, I think C should be Minor +Shadow

rest is fine.

S3rgeus said:
Stasis Box
Flavor: Your scholars have uncovered a stasis box. Unsettling sounds are heard inside
Choice A: open it! (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: don't open it! Send it to the Tower (+Tower Influence, +Light)
Choice C: destroy it (Major +Light)

good.

S3rgeus said:
Foreign Preacher
Flavor: A missionary of <foreign path> has been aggressively spreading his nonsense in your city.
Choice A: Have him thrown in prison (+Faith, ~~-Gold,~~ Minor +Shadow)
~~Choice B: Exile him (-Diplo with <foreign path> founder, Minor +Faith, Minor +Shadow)~~
Choice B: This heresy must be punished, rouse your followers to cast him out (Major +Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: ~~give him the funds~~Allow him to construct a shrine (~~-Gold,~~ Major +Light, Minor +Happiness, +Pressure from <foreign path>)
Choice D: Let him be (Minor +Pressure from <foreign path>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Must have founded a religion that still exists in your territory

OK, I think A and B cannot coexist. There's essentially zero reason to take A. Maybe isntead make A a Free Herald?

So, C has "pressure from foreign path", that's a negative, a cost. So do we think the minor happiness bonus and light is enogh to justify that?

same question for D (actually, moreso).

S3rgeus said:
Resources Discovered
Flavor: One of your Lords has discovered <relevant strategic resource> on his estate.
Choice A: Good for him! (+Gold from international trade routes, +Light)
Choice B: Take possession of the land, sell the excess <resource> (~~+Gold,~~ +2 <resource>, ~~-Happiness,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Demand a significant tax be paid to your treasury (+Gold)

B shouldn't have the "sell" flavor anymore. otherwise, good.

S3rgeus said:
Refugees
Flavor: Refugees from the wars in <neighboring civ> have come seeking asylum in your capitol
Choice A: Allow them to stay (+1 Pop in <city>, +Light~~, -Gold~~)
Choice B: Send them back home (Minor +Shadow)
~~Choice C: kill them (Major +Shadow)~~
Choice C: Strip them of what little they have and send them on (+Food in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Allow them to stay, but provide them no provisions and keep them out of the walls. (~~+1 Pop in <city>, -Happiness, Very~~ +Production in capitol, Minor +Light)
Restriction: A nearby civ must be at war with another civ (not you)

let's rebrand D as: "Allow them to stay, providing they serve as low-wage workers.

I wonder why you would ever choose B, when C is there. If you are trying for neutral, you'd be far better off taking D. I suggest we add a Minor +Prestige or something.

S3rgeus said:
Retainer is a Monarch
Flavor: You have discovered that one of your servants is actually the former Monarch of <extinct civ>, serving you out of fear for their life.
Choice A: let them continue their deception (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Come clean, and make them one of your advisers (Free Governor, +Light)
Choice C: send them home in exchange for a bounty, to be executed by their conquerors (+Gold, +Shadow)
Restriction: At least one civilization must have been eliminated

the Thread that started it all!
I think a Free gov is probably under the category of "really good bonus" - slight penalty to B, then? MAybe a minor - production? Way to justify that in flavor?

S3rgeus said:
Troubling Origins
Flavor: You have discovered shocking pieces of history of your people
Choice A: bury the truth (+Shadow)
Choice B: let everyone know their true heritage (Minor +Culture, ~~-Happiness,~~ +Light)
Choice C: claim these history belongs to a rival populace (+Prestige, Minor +Happiness, +Shadow)

Absolutely zero reasons to take A, considering C. D either needs a penalty to offset it, or else A needs an addition element.

Also, I could see an argument for A actually being a Neutral act. maybe that would solve the problem (No Change).

S3rgeus said:
Shady Merchants
Flavor: You have learned that some merchants in your cities are breaking their contracts ~~with foreign caravans.~~ for delivering well known goods from your lands abroad.
Choice A: have them hanged (~~-GPT for X turns,~~+Prestige, +Light)
Choice B: It's none of your business (Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Force the Guild to terminate their membership (+Culture, +Light)
Choice D: Demand a share of their profits (+Gold, +Shadow)

sure.

S3rgeus said:
Shady Adviser
Flavor: A mysterious academic has arrived at your court. She is brilliant and offers her services. There is also something strangely unsettling about her.
Choice A: Take her into your service (~~-Faith,~~ +Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Send her away (+Light)
Choice C: have her killed (Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Expose her as a Darkfriend and force her to reveal her secrets (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)

I don't think there's any benefit to having C. Nobody would pick it, I say cut it.

S3rgeus said:
Guild Mistake
Flavor: An Artisans' Guild has made a terrible mistake, and several workers have died.
Choice A: That's a sad story (-Happiness, +Shadow)
Choice B: disband the guild (-Culture, +Light)
Choice C: Hire workers to help them complete the project more safely (-Gold, +Light)
Choice A: Cover up the mistake, so your people never know (+Shadow)
Choice B: Host a banquet in the late workers' honor, providing food for all in the markets (+Food in capital, +Light)
Choice C: Enforce regulations that will prevent such mistakes in the future (+Culture, Minor +Light)

B feels sort of forced, flavor-wise. How about "Declare a National Feastday in the worker's honor) instead?

ok. That appears to be where you stopped. I'll stop there too!

good stuff!

counterpoint · Apr 22, 2015

actually had a little time! Maybe I can put forth my take on a few of these. let's see how far I get.

Also, i've fixed some minor typos, and conformed to your format.

Darkfriends for Sale
Flavor: A stranger has discovered the names of supposed darkfriends living in your capitol and will sell them to you for a high price.
Choice A: ~~Pay up (-Gold, +Light)~~Accept his offer (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: 'Question' him, warn the darkfriends (+Shadow)
Choice C: ~~No way (Minor +Light)~~ Decline - we do not condone extortion (+Light)
Choice D: ~~Throw him in prison (Minor +Light)~~Exile him and publicize your zero-tolerance for witch-hunts (+Faith)[/quote]

Future False Dragon
Flavor: A young man is being declared the next dragon by a village, but hasn't yet personally made a claim.
Choice A: Find him and Gentle him (~~-Happiness~~+Tower influence, +Light)
Choice B: Convince him he is the Dragon, and send him to another civilization. (Major +Shadow, -Gold, False Dragon appears near random civ)
Choice C: Ignore him, he has done nothing yet. (+Culture, Minor +Light~~, +False Dragon points~~)
Choice D: Encourage these rumors (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction . Tolerance only

Abandoned Post
Flavor: An entire company of your troops abandoned their duty, and have been caught and await your sentencing as deserters.
Choice A: Grant them amnesty (Minor +Light~~, -Happiness~~, Gain one military unit)
Choice B: They must hang and serve as an example for your armies (~~Sacrifice X power of units,~~ +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: To prison for them! (~~Minor~~ Minor +Faith, +Light)

Channeler on the Run
Flavor: A powerful Wilder has arrived at your palace, on the run from a mob for the crime of channeling.
Choice A: Grant her asylum and notify the Tower ~~upsetting your nobles~~ (+Tower Influence~~-Happiness, +Culture~~, +Light)
Choice B: Conscript her into your forces (~~-Tower influence,~~ Gain Wilder unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her (~~Minor -Gold, Minor +Happiness~~+Faith)
Choice D: Give her to her pursuers (Minor +Happiness, +Shadow)
Restriction. Fear only

Dangerous Foretelling
Flavor: A channeler claims to have Foretold your downfall.
Choice A: Invite her to your palace and seek her counsel (~~Minor -Happiness,~~ +Culture, +Light)
Choice B: Spread rumors, discrediting her (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Make her 'disappear' (~~-Gold,~~ +Shadow)
Restriction: Tolerance only

Overworked Scholars
Flavor: Your Science Minister claims that great progress may be made if your scholars are required to work through the festival season.
Choice A: Great idea (+Science, ~~-Happiness,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Fire your minister (~~+Happiness,~~ +Faith, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Do nothing (Nothing/s]+Happiness)

Tax on Belief
Flavor: ~~Shrines to the Creator~~ Your <Early Faith Buildings> are flush with donations from your people. One of your advisers has implied you could siphon gold off to fund your government.
A . Do it (~~Minor -Faith,~~ Minor +Gold, +Shadow)
B . Fire your adviser (+Faith, +Light)
C . We have no need for these places, shutter them and let the people direct their wealth elsewhere (~~-Faith, +Gold,~~ +Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Ogier Writer
Flavor: An Ogier scholar would like to write a history of your rule.
Choice A: Embellish the truth (+Culture, ~~Minor +Prestige,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Tell only the truth (+Prestige, +Light)
Choice C: Bribe the Ogier to write as you direct (~~-Gold,~~ +Culture, +Prestige, +Shadow)

Governor in Scandal
Flavor: One of your Governors is embroiled in a corruption scandal.
Choice A: Force her to resign and replace her (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Make the scandal go away, in exchange for some extra revenue (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her and do not replace her, investigating the city's political situation (Governor in <city> dies, +Prestige, +Faith, Major +Light)

Nym Guardian
Flavor: Your scholars have found a valuable cache of artifacts, guarded by one of the legendary Nym.
Choice A: Send scholars to retrieve the creature for study (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Leave the construct in peace (Major +Light)
Choice C: Kill the creature and take its artifacts (Minor +Science, +Culture, Major +Shadow)

Trapped in Time
Flavor: A village of formerly ordinary folk have been trapped in a Bubble of Evil, murdering one another in the night and reawakening in their beds the next morning, unscathed.
Choice A: Fortify the border of the town and allow no one in or out (~~Minor -Gold,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Unleash them on the Shadowspawn (Gain One Military Unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Order your troops into the village to be killed, creating an immortal legion (-Happiness, Gain 4 military units, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Put your scholars to work, there must be a way to free them from the curse. (~~-Science,~~ Minor +Science, Major +Light)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Spoilage
Flavor: The Dark One's influence is spoiling your people's food and your farmers need aid to produce enough for everyone.
Choice A: We cannot help (~~-Food,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Send ~~artisans~~ soldiers to help till the fields (~~-Culture,~~ Sacrifice X Strength of Units, +Food, +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Subsidize farming efforts to increase production (~~-Gold,~~ +Food, +Light)
Choice D: Appeal to the Dark One's forces for aid. (+Food, Major +Shadow~~, Shadowspawn appear near your border~~)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Inquisition
Flavor: One of your advisers has suggested that groups of sculptors are potentially harboring Darkfriends and should be put to the Question.
Choice A: Questions for everyone (~~-Culture,~~ +Shadow)
Choice B: Only Question those you are certain are Darkfriends (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Putting our people to the Question will only engender hatred in them. (Minor +Happiness, +Light)

Pledged to the Shadow
Flavor: One of your eyes and ears believes the leader-elect of <city state> has pledged himself to the service of the Shadow, but he has no hard evidence. The new leader is to be crowned tomorrow, what should your agent do?
Choice A: Expose the alleged corruption before he is crowned~~, potentially sullying your reputation~~ (~~-Influence with <city state>,~~ Minor +Light)
Choice B: Assassinate him (+Shadow)
Choice C: Send cordial greeting to <city state>, welcoming their new leader (+Influence with <city state>, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Continue surveillance and prepare to act against the crowned monarch if he is truly in service to the Dark One. (~~Minor~~ +Light)

Volunteer Construction
Flavor: A group of volunteer citizens have begun to construct a <early faith building> in <city without that building>.
Choice A: It is wonderful to see these people working together. (Minor +Light, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>)
Choice B: Send workers to help with construction (-Production in <city>, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>, +Faith, +Light)
Choice C: Disband these commoners, we have no need of a shrine (~~-Faith,~~ +Shadow)
Choice D: There is more important work to be done. (A worker appears near <city without that building>.
Restriction: Must have a city without <building>

Alternates of the above could exist for any building type, just swap out all instances of the word "faith" for the appropriate yield for the building in question. We'd probably want to choose only a subset of buildings to allow this to spawn for.

Organized Cult
Flavor: Many of your citizens have been taken in by a cult that worships the Shadow, calling the Dark One a savior.
Choice A: They must be brought to see the error of their ways. Re-educate them (~~-Gold,~~ +Light)
Choice B: Redirect their idolatry ~~to see if they can find a way to emulate his powers~~ towards the forbidden arts (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Encourage this cult (+Faith, +Shadow)

Source of Food
Flavor: Some of your forces ranging in the Blight have found that Trolloc meat can sustain a man as well as normal food, but your scholars caution longer term side effects of consuming Shadowspawn.
Choice A: Consume away, our men need their strength in the Blight! (Minor +Food, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Caution your soldiers to only consume Trolloc meat in the direst of circumstances (Gain 1 Military unit)
Choice C: That sounds like a good source of food for the winter. (+Food, +Shadow)
Choice D: Outlaw consumption of Trolloc meat. (~~Minor -Food,~~ +Light)
Restriction: Must have border on the Blight

S3rgeus said:

Unethical Scholar
Flavor: A scholar has been denounced by his fellows for unethical conduct, but his research appears to be bearing fruit.
Choice A: Take what results he has so far, but prevent him from pursuing his research. (Minor +Science, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Throw out his research and exile him. (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Protect him from this outrageous slander. (+Science, +Shadow)

A Chosen Portrait
Flavor: An artist has caused quite a stir auctioning off her take on portraits of the Forsaken from the War of Power. She has offered to donate a piece to your collection.
Choice A: Thank her profusely (Receive <craft GW>, +Shadow)
Choice B: Accept, but store the piece out of sight (+Prestige)
Choice C: Politely Refuse (+Light)
Choice D: Accept, but sell the piece on (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: must have a free craft GW slot somewhere

Honored General
Flavor: A local lord has used his military expertise as a former soldier to protect his village from a Lawless assault.
Choice A: Recognize his feat and give him greater authority (Free <martial Governor type>, +Light)
Choice B: He claims to have retired, but you can never truly leave my army. Conscript him. (Gain 1 Great Captain, +Shadow)

Click to expand...

These all are great how they are!

S3rgeus said:

Endangering the Dragon
Flavor: The Dragon is due to visit your capital on the morrow. One of the Forsaken have approached you and offered you significant compensation to dictate the route his retinue will take through the city.
Choice A: Warn the Dragon (+Prestige, Major +Light)
Choice B: Do Nothing (+Shadow)
Choice C: Redirect the Dragon's retinue to the prescribed path (Major +Gold, Major +Shadow)
Restriction: the Dragon must have been born

Click to expand...

weren't we tweaking the flavor here so it's that the Forsaken want to meet with him?

S3rgeus said:

Miscounted Revenue
Flavor: Your clerks have been recounting taxes and found a clerical error, you have collected more gold from your citizens than originally intended.
Choice A: Our coffers overfloweth, we must give it back (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Donate the excess to scholarly endeavors (+Science)
Choice C: That's very fortunate, adjust our ledgers accordingly (+Gold, +Shadow)

Click to expand...

fine how it is.

A Curse or Gift?
Flavor:It has been discovered that a Lieutenant in the City Watch has the ability to sense violence, and track it, miraculously. He asserts that this ability has nothing to do with the Power.
Choice A: This is a creature of the Dark One! He must hang. (~~Sacrifice X strength of units,~~ Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: This Sniffer could be useful (~~Minor -Happiness,~~ +Light)
Choice C: Let this man live, but he must leave your lands (~~no change~~+Prestige)
Restriction: Fear only

S3rgeus said:

Guild of Thief-Takers
Flavor: Your City Watch has failed to keep crime in check. A band of Thief-Takers has offered to help.
Choice A: Allow them to aid your city guard (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: They could aid in constructing a distraction instead (Receive <Happiness building> in <city that doesn't have one>, +Shadow)
Choice C: Instruct them to seize coin from lucrative thieves only (Minor +Gold, Minor +Happiness)
Restriction: must be unhappy

Click to expand...

my issues with this one are noted (way) above.

S3rgeus said:

Training the Heirs
Flavor: The White Tower has requested that you send the sons and daughters of the royal family to train with their Aes Sedai and Warders.
Choice A: Their place is here, with our people (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Very well (+Tower Influence)
Choice C: Certainly, but instruct the youth to actively spy on the Tower (+Tower Influence, +Shadow)
Restriction: must be Authority

Click to expand...

great.

A Part of No Nation
Flavor: A remote region of your empire has begun running their own government and neglecting their duties to the Crown. They are clear to state that they are not in open rebellion.
Choice A: They are doing little harm. Let them feel important (~~-Gold, Minor +Light, Minor +Happiness~~ Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can't do this! Send the troops (~~-Happiness, Sacrifice X strength of units,~~ +Shadow, +Prestige)
Choice C: Send a new governor and a fleet of tax collectors to put things in order (lose one governor, Gain Great Merchant [equivalent])
Restriction: Must have a city at least X tiles away from the capital

Luck of the Dark One
Flavor: One of your generals is winning battles due to preposterous luck. Your other leaders have become suspicious and worry about involvement from the Witches.
Choice A: Nonsense. This man is simply a genius. (+Prestige)
Choice B: He must be exiled - he could be a traitor! (sacrifice 1 Great Captain, + Faith, +Happiness, +minor shadow)
Choice C: It sounds like he would make a sound financial adviser (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Reassign him so that he can co-ordinate attacks against the Shadowspawn, well away from the public eye (+Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must have a Great Captain, must be Fear

ok, that's the time I have! Also, what's the hotkey for strikethrough? or a button? I am manually typing the S and /S and it's annoying.

counterpoint · Apr 22, 2015

ok. why not?

Wilder's Block
Flavor: Several of your channelers are performing under expectations because they suffer from unfortunate Blocks.
Choice A: These women need to train in the Tower (~~Sacrifice 1 Wilder/Kin,~~ +Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
~~Choice B: They will be fine - perhaps they need some rest (Nothing)~~
Choice CB: Perhaps your scholars can help (~~-Science,~~ Minor+EXP to X Wilder/Kin units)
Choice DC: These women are simply getting weak. They must ~~fight through their difficulties.~~ harden themselves. (~~Minor +Shadow, Minor +EXP to X Wilder/Kin units~~+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have met the Tower. Must have at least one Wilder/Kin unit

Stilled Aes Sedai
Flavor: You have learned that a trusted adviser is in fact a former Aes Sedai ~~that was Stilled for misconduct~~ who had the Spark burned out of her in an accident. Now that you have the capability, she has asked to have her Ability restored, and be allowed to leave your service.
Choice A: She is too valuable. She must stay (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice B: Of course, have one of your channelers Heal her (Sacrifice one Governor, Minor +Happiness, Gain 1 Sister unit, +Light)
Choice C: Have one of your channelers Heal her, but request she remain your adviser. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Contact the Tower to perform this service. (Minor +Tower Influence)
Restriction: Must have discovered <tech that unlocks Gentling Cure>

Legendary Sister
Flavor: A sister of advanced age and mythic status has emerged in your capital city. She may offer you aid, but your advisers caution you that she answers to no one, not even the Tower.
Choice A: This woman will foster instability. Her meddling must be kept far away from your affairs (~~-Tower Influence,~~ +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Whatever the risk, this Sister represents a source of power. We must learn what we can from her (+Culture, Minor +Science)
Restriction: Must be Authority

Dai'shan
Flavor: One of your soldiers claims to be a descendent of the royal line of [extinct civ]. He has been gathering troops to one day restore his homeland to its former glory.
Choice A: This is a noble errand. Allow him to take some soldiers as an honor guard (Sacrifice X strength of units, ~~Minor~~ +Culture, +Faith, Major +Light)
Choice B: This sounds a lot like rebellion. He must be imprisoned before something bad happens (~~Minor~~ +Shadow)
Choice C: Bring him into your council, and declare your kingdom to be the heir apparent to his fallen land (+Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We will not stand in his way. (Minor +Faith)
Restriction: A civ must have gone extinct, but not because of the player

S3rgeus said:
A Viewing
A young woman in your capital apparently has the ability to View people's fates and know their futures. Your advisers recommend you use her to help find those destined for greatness.
Choice A: Send her to the Academies (+ X Great Scientist [equivalent] Points)
Choice B: Send her to the Artisans (+ X Great Artist [equivalent] Points)
Choice C: Send her to the battlefields (+ X Great Captain Points)
Choice D: Do nothing. These people must be discovered by themselves (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Not Fear

this one is good.

Esteemed Bard
Flavor: A Gleeman~~Bard~~ of legendary reputation has journeyed to your court. He apparently has a troubled history with one of your nobles.
Choice A: Appoint him your Bard, despite your noble's emotional protestations (Lose one governor, Gain a Great Musician [equivalent], Minor +Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Your first duty is to your own people - the Bard must go (~~-Happiness,~~ Minor +Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Hire him for one elaborate celebration and send him on his way (~~Minor -Gold,~~ +Culture)

Where the Shadow Waits
Flavor: A Peddler has come into your capital with impressive wares at a good price. However, he has a disturbing, sinister aura that one of your advisers believes is like the curse of Mashadar.
Choice A: Let this man sell his wares, and leave (Minor +Culture, Minor +Gold)
Choice B: A creature such as this cannot be allowed to roam free. He must be investigated and tried if found guilty of misdeeds (~~-Gold,~~ +Faith, +Light)
Choice C: This man obviously has valuable connections. Bring him into your service, cursed or not! (Minor -Happiness, Gain a Great Merchant [equivalent], +Shadow)
Restriction: Shadar Logoth must exist

S3rgeus said:
Cursed Item
Flavor: One of your soldiers got lost in Shadar Logoth and has returned in one piece... but is eerily and fatally attached to an object he found there.
Choice A: This man must be sent to the Tower for Healing (+Light, +Tower Influence)
Choice B: Your scholars have much to learn from a curse such as this (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: Take the dagger from him and display it in your palace (+Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Shadar Logoth must exist

great

S3rgeus said:
Captain without a King
Flavor: A Great Captain, disgraced by his former Liege, has offered to swear his sword to you.
Choice A: His help is needed. Accept. (-Gold, Gain one Great Captain)
Choice B: No - he will probably betray you. To prison with him. (+Shadow)
Choice C: No thanks (Nothing)

I don't know how to make this one work. It's sort of dependent on A being able to provide a free GC, but I can't find a suitable penalty (since Gold is no longer on the approved penalty list). Any way of making it work with happiness, science, production.... some governor?

S3rgeus said:
Foreign Soldiers
Flavor: An adept band of exotic foreign warriors has become enamored with your cause, and offer to join you.
Choice A: No, we prefer to use our own citizens (+Faith)
Choice B: They will make an excellent addition to our forces (Gain 1 Unique Unit of a different Civ)
Choice C: Turn these men over to their King as traitors (+Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Some other civilization must have a Unique Unit that is currently producible.

fine

S3rgeus said:
Nightmare Walker
Flavor: You have heard of a strange and powerful man that wanders the World of Dreams, haunting some of your people in the night.
Choice A: Seek the Tower's help - maybe they can catch him (+Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
Choice B: Dedicate a few of your own channelers to protect your lands in the Dream (+Culture)
Choice C: Some scholars are investigating ways of inducing sleep without dreams, people have no need for such distractions. Send those affected as test subjects. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: An outcast warrior claims he can manipulate the World of the Dream with his mind and has offered to fight this man if you lend aid. (Sacrifice X power of units, gain Wolfbrother unit, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Not Oppression

I like this one, mechanically, but don't understand the flavor of Choice B. Can it be elaborated upon to make more sense? Alternatively, if it's a "believe in ourselves" thing, this should be faith, or prestige.

S3rgeus said:
Legendary Traveler
Flavor: You have learned that one of your soldiers is, in fact, an esteemed world traveler.
Choice A: He has chosen this simple life, and should be allowed to live it. (Minor +Light, +Faith)
Choice B: Encourage your bards to tell tales of his travels (Minor +Culture)
Choice C: Claim the stories of his travels as your own (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice D: Imprison him until he writes a compendium of his adventures (-Happiness, Gain Great Writer, +Shadow)

Mysterious Door
Flavor: Your scholars have come into possession of a doorframe Ter'angreal with surprising powers. Apparently, entering it will yield amazing knowledge - but at what cost?
Choice A: Enter it yourself (Minor +Shadow, +Prestige)
Choice B: Require your scholars to enter it (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: Hide this abomination in your deepest holds (+Light)
Choice D: Give it to the Tower (+Tower influence, Minor +Light)
Restriction: must have discovered the Tower

both good!

Shrewd Leader
Flavor: The leader of <nearby CS> has demonstrated her political prowess, often gaining a surprising upper hand in relations with other civs.
Choice A: Pledge your support to her and her sovereignty (+Influence with <nearby CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: She would serve you well as an adviser - make it so (Major -Influence with <nearby CS>, +Governor, +Shadow)
~~Choice C: Offer military support in exchange for her wisdom (+Culture, Minor +Influence with <nearby CS>, pledge to protect them)~~
Choice C: Perhaps her wisdom can inform your own rule - send your advisers to her court (+Culture, Minor +Influence with <nearby CS>)
Restriction: must have a CS adjacent your civ's borders

S3rgeus · Apr 22, 2015

There we go, they're all in flight now!

counterpoint said:
Yeah, that last thing. I sort of think there should be a "who cares about happiness" option. For the crazies. Maybe it doesn't need to be the shadow option, though.

Thief-Taker Thing (I'll put the name in properly when it comes up later)

I see what you mean here, then! I agree, let's change option C.

counterpoint said:
A and C look good. Is B a mistake? You are penalized with False Dragon points (yes, you're "gaining" them, but that's a bad thing), but gain minor shadow? This seems really quite awful, and you'd never do it (instead of C). It seems like it might be a holdover from the old version.

Might I suggest something like:

Choice B - Let them fend for themselves - too many mouths to feed! (Minor +Food, Minor +Shadow)

Unrest in your Lands

I totally agree that FD points is a penalty and should be changed. Food also seems like a nice bonus, but what's the flavor of this new Choice B? I don't see how a city gains food if there are too many mouths to feed.

counterpoint said:
looks good. When it comes time to "really" write these, I'd like the "evidence" line to have more subtlety.

Accused Darkfriend
Yeah, that makes sense.

counterpoint said:
Did you skip this one on accident? It appears to be totally "old school" in its configuration.

Possible revision (none the slight change to flavor):

Darkfriend Escape
Flavor: A man has been accused of being a Darkfriend and brought to your court for judgement. It seems likely that he is guilty.
Choice A: Arrange his disappearance to safety abroad (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Torture him to learn of his masters (+Faith, +Shadow)
Choice C: Accept "donations" from his supporters (Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Let your Governors decide his fate (Minor +Light)

Darkfriend Escape
Bargh! I ended up having to undo quite a few things in this process and undo isn't all that reliable (or obvious what it's doing) in a browser. I must've ended up undoing my changes to this one, because I remember changing it.

Anywho, your version looks good. Edited in.

counterpoint said:
This one is fine, I think, though I think the flavor should also include something like "The Public is convinced of his guilt, but the evidence is inconclusive."

Falsely Accused?
Done!

counterpoint said:
good, but I'd suggest B provide +Culture and C provide "Minor +Culture" - maybe "+Shadow" to balance it. (this feels like, flavor-wise, the right choice, as having the actual art is culturally more impactful than making it disappear).

Commissioned Artwork
The implication of C was supposed to be that the player steals it, hence the culture equivalency. However, that no longer makes sense with the flavor change that the player isn't "purchasing" it anymore. Changed!

counterpoint said:
Also, should probably have a Restriction: Must have more than one city, or a city of pop between X and Y, or something.

Just to be clear - it's +Food to one particular city, right? (in A)

+2 pop sounds good for 3.

This is another one where all the rewards are the same (like the happiness one about the Thief Takers). I don't like it... especially since there are four choices. I say either eliminate C or D, and replace it with:

Choice C/D: Use the famine as an excuse to raise prices throughout your lands. (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)

Famine Near <city you own here>
Changed A to specify <city>.

Finalized +2 pop.

Replaced C with your suggestion. Though how about +Shadow instead of Minor +Shadow for this one? Just so C and D don't have the same Shadow level.

counterpoint said:
I think this one will only work if at least *one* choice actually involves a unit sacrifice. Otherwise the flavor doesn't fit. Two competing suggestions:

A) change Choice B,making it actual need a "donation" but provide good bonuses:

Choice B: Send soldiers (Sacrifice X power of military units, + Influence with <CS>, +Happiness, +Light)

OR, reflavor it:

Diplomatic Crisis
Flavor: The Council of Lords in <CS> has once again failed to come to consensus on who should be their First. They seek guidance from you.
Choice A: Stay out of their affairs (Minor +Shadow, Minor +Happiness)
Choice B: Send a delegation to assist their efforts (+Influence with <CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Send a delegation, but charge them an arbitration fee (Minor +Influence with <CS>, Minor +Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have met a CS

or... both?

Looming Threat
Both! I've edited in your suggested B (replacing old B). And added the new Thread at the end of the second post.

Regarding Diplomatic Crisis, I think A should be Neutral.

counterpoint said:
suggestion:
B: (Minor +Tower Influence, Minor +Culture (no light)
C: +Tower Influence, Minor +Light

Emissary from the Tower
Done

counterpoint said:
I'm looking for variety here. I suggest D drop mention of his research, and just provide Prestige or something.

Also, I think we should probably not have C. Don't think the flavor works.

A Tower Divided
I agree there should be variety in choices, but having some Threads where the choices reward the player bonus-wise similarly makes them more likely to choose based on Alignment. And that is also good.

Prestige is also a dangerous yield for us to use in a lot of these, since it's only useful to Culture victory players. It's annoyingly applicable to a lot of situations!

Dropped C.

counterpoint said:
I do think there is a place for something like

Choice C: These designs would fetch a high price on the international market! (+Gold, +Shadow)

Cost of Progress
Totally! Added

counterpoint said:
good.

Imported Luxury
Done

counterpoint said:
C should probably spawn Lawless, not DS.

Conscription
You mean change the flavor to make it like that? (Existing choice calls out Dragonsworn specifically.) Flavor wise it seems easier to justify whipping up the Dragonsworn against someone without having to pay them. Functionally, which of the two controls the units won't make a difference to the person defending from them.

counterpoint said:
Quite possible the rewards for D will be too much. Maybe eliminate the Culture element?

Hero in the Pattern
I'm not sure, Culture and Prestige's usefulness tends to go hand in hand. For most players this is just two bonuses, Culture and Hawkwing. Culture players get an extra little bit, but this Thread should be applicable across the board.

counterpoint said:
Good. i wonder - should B be +minor shadow?

Ter'Angreal Cache
Done

counterpoint said:
is B's Spark permanent?

Rogue Coven
I think so. Considering the utility of a single instance of a strategic resource in base CiV, I think we can afford to give the player another one permanently. Most of them because relatively plentiful by the end of the game.

counterpoint said:
Nobody would ever take C, I think (why not A?). Suggestion:

Choice C: Do nothing - this is who we are! (Minor +Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Also, that fits in-universe, I think.

Class Warfare
This will come up a couple of times, but I think having a couple that would be picked primarily by Neutral players makes sense. C is only strictly better than A if more Shadow is good for you. Especially in situations where the other choices all give you a decent chunk of Alignment (no Minor ones), having an "underpowered" Neutral-ish choice may convince some Neutral players to pick a side. (Which I think is what we want.)

counterpoint said:
great

Slave Trade
Done

counterpoint said:
OK, you didn't get a chance to finish this one. My take on it:

I'd tweak the flavor a bit, saying that the village has a troublingly high number of DFs, or something.

Honestly, I think perhaps the simplest solution is to simply axe A. There's no way to have that one make sense without a downside, and the potential upside isn't worth having it be one of the "cost" ones.

Four Kings in Shadow
Sounds good. Done

counterpoint said:
Actually, I think C should be Minor +Shadow

rest is fine.

Unruly House
I think either Neutral or Minor +Light makes sense. The player is making a shrewd political maneuver that also ensures their people have food for the winter. Seems to err on the good side to me.

counterpoint said:
good.

Stasis Box
Didn't need to change this one!

counterpoint said:
OK, I think A and B cannot coexist. There's essentially zero reason to take A. Maybe isntead make A a Free Herald?

So, C has "pressure from foreign path", that's a negative, a cost. So do we think the minor happiness bonus and light is enogh to justify that?

same question for D (actually, moreso).

Foreign Preacher
A and B is Neutral-ness again. A Neutral player who sees this will start off thinking they'd never pick B (it nets tons of Shadow). But if they want Faith, they're already picking a Shadow option. If they take some more Shadow points, then they can get even more of that Faith they want. (This is a possible consideration for some Light players as well.)

Agreed on Pressure for D, I've taken that out. I think the Major Light and Minor Happiness are ok for the pressure in C, since the pressure isn't a significant cost is almost all cases.

counterpoint said:
B shouldn't have the "sell" flavor anymore. otherwise, good.

Resources Discovered
Done

counterpoint said:
let's rebrand D as: "Allow them to stay, providing they serve as low-wage workers.

I wonder why you would ever choose B, when C is there. If you are trying for neutral, you'd be far better off taking D. I suggest we add a Minor +Prestige or something.

Refugees
We could just axe B? It doesn't seem like we need another dimension on this one.

counterpoint said:
the Thread that started it all!
I think a Free gov is probably under the category of "really good bonus" - slight penalty to B, then? MAybe a minor - production? Way to justify that in flavor?

Retainer is a Monarch
As B is the only Light option, I think we should add a choice D in that case. (Light player isn't forced to pay a cost otherwise go against Alignment.)

Reflavor for B: Remove them from their current duties and appoint them to public office (the removal from what they're doing now incurs the Prod cost).

Choice D: Publicly acknowledge their position and make your capital the new center for <extinct civ> heritage (+Culture, Minor +Light)

counterpoint said:
Absolutely zero reasons to take A, considering C. D either needs a penalty to offset it, or else A needs an addition element.

Also, I could see an argument for A actually being a Neutral act. maybe that would solve the problem (No Change).

Troubling Origins
We could make A Minor +Shadow and C Major +Shadow. Similar temptation situation for Neutrals as mentioned above.

counterpoint said:
sure.

Shady Merchants
Done

counterpoint said:
I don't think there's any benefit to having C. Nobody would pick it, I say cut it.

Shady Adviser
Done

counterpoint said:
B feels sort of forced, flavor-wise. How about "Declare a National Feastday in the worker's honor) instead?

Guild Mistake
Done

counterpoint said:
Also, i've fixed some minor typos, and conformed to your format.

Awesome, thanks!

counterpoint said:
Darkfriends for Sale
Flavor: A stranger has discovered the names of supposed darkfriends living in your capitol and will sell them to you for a high price.
Choice A: ~~Pay up (-Gold, +Light)~~Accept his offer (Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: 'Question' him, warn the darkfriends (+Shadow)
Choice C: ~~No way (Minor +Light)~~ Decline - we do not condone extortion (+Light)
Choice D: ~~Throw him in prison (Minor +Light)~~Exile him and publicize your zero-tolerance for witch-hunts (+Faith)

Looks good

counterpoint said:
Future False Dragon
Flavor: A young man is being declared the next dragon by a village, but hasn't yet personally made a claim.
Choice A: Find him and Gentle him (~~-Happiness~~+Tower influence, +Light)
Choice B: Convince him he is the Dragon, and send him to another civilization. (Major +Shadow, -Gold, False Dragon appears near random civ)
Choice C: Ignore him, he has done nothing yet. (+Culture, Minor +Light~~, +False Dragon points~~)
Choice D: Encourage these rumors (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction . Tolerance only

Cool.

counterpoint said:
Abandoned Post
Flavor: An entire company of your troops abandoned their duty, and have been caught and await your sentencing as deserters.
Choice A: Grant them amnesty (Minor +Light~~, -Happiness~~, Gain one military unit)
Choice B: They must hang and serve as an example for your armies (~~Sacrifice X power of units,~~ +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: To prison for them! (~~Minor~~ Minor +Faith, +Light)

We could go with EXP as the reward for B, rather than Prestige?

counterpoint said:
Channeler on the Run
Flavor: A powerful Wilder has arrived at your palace, on the run from a mob for the crime of channeling.
Choice A: Grant her asylum and notify the Tower ~~upsetting your nobles~~ (+Tower Influence~~-Happiness, +Culture~~, +Light)
Choice B: Conscript her into your forces (~~-Tower influence,~~ Gain Wilder unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her (~~Minor -Gold, Minor +Happiness~~+Faith)
Choice D: Give her to her pursuers (Minor +Happiness, +Shadow)
Restriction. Fear only

Why Faith for C?

counterpoint said:
Dangerous Foretelling
Flavor: A channeler claims to have Foretold your downfall.
Choice A: Invite her to your palace and seek her counsel (~~Minor -Happiness,~~ +Culture, +Light)
Choice B: Spread rumors, discrediting her (Minor +Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Make her 'disappear' (~~-Gold,~~ +Shadow)
Restriction: Tolerance only

Looks good

counterpoint said:
Overworked Scholars
Flavor: Your Science Minister claims that great progress may be made if your scholars are required to work through the festival season.
Choice A: Great idea (+Science, ~~-Happiness,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Fire your minister (~~+Happiness,~~ +Faith, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Do nothing (~~Nothing/s]+Happiness)~~

Looks good

counterpoint said:

Tax on Belief
Flavor: ~~Shrines to the Creator~~ Your <Early Faith Buildings> are flush with donations from your people. One of your advisers has implied you could siphon gold off to fund your government.
A . Do it (~~Minor -Faith,~~ Minor +Gold, +Shadow)
B . Fire your adviser (+Faith, +Light)
C . We have no need for these places, shutter them and let the people direct their wealth elsewhere (~~-Faith, +Gold,~~ +Culture, Minor +Shadow)

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

Ogier Writer
Flavor: An Ogier scholar would like to write a history of your rule.
Choice A: Embellish the truth (+Culture, ~~Minor +Prestige,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Tell only the truth (+Prestige, +Light)
Choice C: Bribe the Ogier to write as you direct (~~-Gold,~~ +Culture, +Prestige, +Shadow)

Click to expand...

Removing the ol' Prestige from A, I see.

Do we mind that the only Light choice gives the player just Prestige?

counterpoint said:

Governor in Scandal
Flavor: One of your Governors is embroiled in a corruption scandal.
Choice A: Force her to resign and replace her (+Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: Make the scandal go away, in exchange for some extra revenue (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Imprison her and do not replace her, investigating the city's political situation (Governor in <city> dies, +Prestige, +Faith, Major +Light)

Click to expand...

Still a bit unsure about Prestige as a bonus in this situation. C is only really useful to Light culture players or max-out-Light players. Which I suppose isn't an insignificant proportion of players. Is there a more universal yield we could use instead? Happiness, Science, Production, Food?

counterpoint said:

Nym Guardian
Flavor: Your scholars have found a valuable cache of artifacts, guarded by one of the legendary Nym.
Choice A: Send scholars to retrieve the creature for study (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: Leave the construct in peace (Major +Light)
Choice C: Kill the creature and take its artifacts (Minor +Science, +Culture, Major +Shadow)

Click to expand...

No changes, right?

counterpoint said:

Trapped in Time
Flavor: A village of formerly ordinary folk have been trapped in a Bubble of Evil, murdering one another in the night and reawakening in their beds the next morning, unscathed.
Choice A: Fortify the border of the town and allow no one in or out (~~Minor -Gold,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Unleash them on the Shadowspawn (Gain One Military Unit, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Order your troops into the village to be killed, creating an immortal legion (-Happiness, Gain 4 military units, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Put your scholars to work, there must be a way to free them from the curse. (~~-Science,~~ Minor +Science, Major +Light)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Click to expand...

Looms good

counterpoint said:

Spoilage
Flavor: The Dark One's influence is spoiling your people's food and your farmers need aid to produce enough for everyone.
Choice A: We cannot help (~~-Food,~~ Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Send ~~artisans~~ soldiers to help till the fields (~~-Culture,~~ Sacrifice X Strength of Units, +Food, +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Subsidize farming efforts to increase production (~~-Gold,~~ +Food, +Light)
Choice D: Appeal to the Dark One's forces for aid. (+Food, Major +Shadow~~, Shadowspawn appear near your border~~)
Restriction: World era has reached Era of the Dragon

Click to expand...

Major Light for B?

counterpoint said:

Inquisition
Flavor: One of your advisers has suggested that groups of sculptors are potentially harboring Darkfriends and should be put to the Question.
Choice A: Questions for everyone (~~-Culture,~~ +Shadow)
Choice B: Only Question those you are certain are Darkfriends (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Putting our people to the Question will only engender hatred in them. (Minor +Happiness, +Light)

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

Pledged to the Shadow
Flavor: One of your eyes and ears believes the leader-elect of <city state> has pledged himself to the service of the Shadow, but he has no hard evidence. The new leader is to be crowned tomorrow, what should your agent do?
Choice A: Expose the alleged corruption before he is crowned~~, potentially sullying your reputation~~ (~~-Influence with <city state>,~~ Minor +Light)
Choice B: Assassinate him (+Shadow)
Choice C: Send cordial greeting to <city state>, welcoming their new leader (+Influence with <city state>, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Continue surveillance and prepare to act against the crowned monarch if he is truly in service to the Dark One. (~~Minor~~ +Light)

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

Volunteer Construction
Flavor: A group of volunteer citizens have begun to construct a <early faith building> in <city without that building>.
Choice A: It is wonderful to see these people working together. (Minor +Light, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>)
Choice B: Send workers to help with construction (-Production in <city>, <early faith building> is constructed in <city>, +Faith, +Light)
Choice C: Disband these commoners, we have no need of a shrine (~~-Faith,~~ +Shadow)
Choice D: There is more important work to be done. (A worker appears near <city without that building>.
Restriction: Must have a city without <building>

Click to expand...

I really like the worker bonus. Might be a bit strong, but we'll see. Looks good

counterpoint said:

Organized Cult
Flavor: Many of your citizens have been taken in by a cult that worships the Shadow, calling the Dark One a savior.
Choice A: They must be brought to see the error of their ways. Re-educate them (~~-Gold,~~ +Light)
Choice B: Redirect their idolatry ~~to see if they can find a way to emulate his powers~~ towards the forbidden arts (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Encourage this cult (+Faith, +Shadow)

Click to expand...

How do the forbidden arts generate science? I agree we should change the flavor on this option.

Very direct:

Choice B: Redirect their idolatry to more scholarly endeavors

A bit more circumspect, but possibly too modern-world:

Choice B: Allow your scholars to study their development to better understand how people form organizations like this

counterpoint said:

Source of Food
Flavor: Some of your forces ranging in the Blight have found that Trolloc meat can sustain a man as well as normal food, but your scholars caution longer term side effects of consuming Shadowspawn.
Choice A: Consume away, our men need their strength in the Blight! (Minor +Food, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Caution your soldiers to only consume Trolloc meat in the direst of circumstances (Gain 1 Military unit)
Choice C: That sounds like a good source of food for the winter. (+Food, +Shadow)
Choice D: Outlaw consumption of Trolloc meat. (~~Minor -Food,~~ +Light)
Restriction: Must have border on the Blight

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

weren't we tweaking the flavor here so it's that the Forsaken want to meet with him?

Click to expand...

I was sure I did this. I must have closed a tab without saving an edit at some point! Edited.

counterpoint said:

A Curse or Gift?
Flavor:It has been discovered that a Lieutenant in the City Watch has the ability to sense violence, and track it, miraculously. He asserts that this ability has nothing to do with the Power.
Choice A: This is a creature of the Dark One! He must hang. (~~Sacrifice X strength of units,~~ Minor +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: This Sniffer could be useful (~~Minor -Happiness,~~ +Light)
Choice C: Let this man live, but he must leave your lands (~~no change~~+Prestige)
Restriction: Fear only

Click to expand...

A bit reluctant about Prestige, but it should be on some of them, so sure.

counterpoint said:

my issues with this one are noted (way) above.

Click to expand...

Guild of Thief-Takers
How about changing B to:

Choice B: They seem like they could pull their weight as forced labor instead (+Production in <city>, +Shadow)

Or some combination of that with all/some of the existing choices?

counterpoint said:

A Part of No Nation
Flavor: A remote region of your empire has begun running their own government and neglecting their duties to the Crown. They are clear to state that they are not in open rebellion.
Choice A: They are doing little harm. Let them feel important (~~-Gold, Minor +Light, Minor +Happiness~~ Minor +Happiness, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can't do this! Send the troops (~~-Happiness, Sacrifice X strength of units,~~ +Shadow, +Prestige)
Choice C: Send a new governor and a fleet of tax collectors to put things in order (lose one governor, Gain Great Merchant [equivalent])
Restriction: Must have a city at least X tiles away from the capital

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

Luck of the Dark One
Flavor: One of your generals is winning battles due to preposterous luck. Your other leaders have become suspicious and worry about involvement from the Witches.
Choice A: Nonsense. This man is simply a genius. (+Prestige)
Choice B: He must be exiled - he could be a traitor! (sacrifice 1 Great Captain, + Faith, +Happiness, +minor shadow)
Choice C: It sounds like he would make a sound financial adviser (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Reassign him so that he can co-ordinate attacks against the Shadowspawn, well away from the public eye (+Happiness, +Light)
Restriction: must have a Great Captain, must be Fear

Click to expand...

Looks good

counterpoint said:

ok, that's the time I have! Also, what's the hotkey for strikethrough? or a button? I am manually typing the S and /S and it's annoying.

Click to expand...

Now that you've finished all of them! There's a strikethrough button in the top right of the post editor, next to the spoiler button. I've yet to find a keyboard shortcut.

S3rgeus · Apr 22, 2015

counterpoint said:
Wilder's Block
Flavor: Several of your channelers are performing under expectations because they suffer from unfortunate Blocks.
Choice A: These women need to train in the Tower (~~Sacrifice 1 Wilder/Kin,~~ +Tower Influence, Minor +Light)
~~Choice B: They will be fine - perhaps they need some rest (Nothing)~~
Choice CB: Perhaps your scholars can help (~~-Science,~~ Minor+EXP to X Wilder/Kin units)
Choice DC: These women are simply getting weak. They must ~~fight through their difficulties.~~ harden themselves. (~~Minor +Shadow, Minor +EXP to X Wilder/Kin units~~+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Must have met the Tower. Must have at least one Wilder/Kin unit

Does it need to be Minor +Exp for B? Most EXP bumps don't make a huge impact.

counterpoint said:
Stilled Aes Sedai
Flavor: You have learned that a trusted adviser is in fact a former Aes Sedai ~~that was Stilled for misconduct~~ who had the Spark burned out of her in an accident. Now that you have the capability, she has asked to have her Ability restored, and be allowed to leave your service.
Choice A: She is too valuable. She must stay (+Prestige, +Shadow)
Choice B: Of course, have one of your channelers Heal her (Sacrifice one Governor, Minor +Happiness, Gain 1 Sister unit, +Light)
Choice C: Have one of your channelers Heal her, but request she remain your adviser. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice D: Contact the Tower to perform this service. (Minor +Tower Influence)
Restriction: Must have discovered <tech that unlocks Gentling Cure>

Awesome

counterpoint said:
Legendary Sister
Flavor: A sister of advanced age and mythic status has emerged in your capital city. She may offer you aid, but your advisers caution you that she answers to no one, not even the Tower.
Choice A: This woman will foster instability. Her meddling must be kept far away from your affairs (~~-Tower Influence,~~ +Happiness, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Whatever the risk, this Sister represents a source of power. We must learn what we can from her (+Culture, Minor +Science)
Restriction: Must be Authority

I think we should add a Light choice.

Choice C: Petition her for secrets to help drive the Shadowspawn back into the Blight. (+Science, +Light)

counterpoint said:
Dai'shan
Flavor: One of your soldiers claims to be a descendent of the royal line of [extinct civ]. He has been gathering troops to one day restore his homeland to its former glory.
Choice A: This is a noble errand. Allow him to take some soldiers as an honor guard (Sacrifice X strength of units, ~~Minor~~ +Culture, +Faith, Major +Light)
Choice B: This sounds a lot like rebellion. He must be imprisoned before something bad happens (~~Minor~~ +Shadow)
Choice C: Bring him into your council, and declare your kingdom to be the heir apparent to his fallen land (+Prestige, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We will not stand in his way. (Minor +Faith)
Restriction: A civ must have gone extinct, but not because of the player

Looks good

counterpoint said:
Esteemed Bard
Flavor: A Gleeman~~Bard~~ of legendary reputation has journeyed to your court. He apparently has a troubled history with one of your nobles.
Choice A: Appoint him your Bard, despite your noble's emotional protestations (Lose one governor, Gain a Great Musician [equivalent], Minor +Culture, Minor +Shadow)
Choice B: Your first duty is to your own people - the Bard must go (~~-Happiness,~~ Minor +Gold, Minor +Light)
Choice C: Hire him for one elaborate celebration and send him on his way (~~Minor -Gold,~~ +Culture)

Looks good

counterpoint said:
Where the Shadow Waits
Flavor: A Peddler has come into your capital with impressive wares at a good price. However, he has a disturbing, sinister aura that one of your advisers believes is like the curse of Mashadar.
Choice A: Let this man sell his wares, and leave (Minor +Culture, Minor +Gold)
Choice B: A creature such as this cannot be allowed to roam free. He must be investigated and tried if found guilty of misdeeds (~~-Gold,~~ +Faith, +Light)
Choice C: This man obviously has valuable connections. Bring him into your service, cursed or not! (Minor -Happiness, Gain a Great Merchant [equivalent], +Shadow)
Restriction: Shadar Logoth must exist

looks good

counterpoint said:
I don't know how to make this one work. It's sort of dependent on A being able to provide a free GC, but I can't find a suitable penalty (since Gold is no longer on the approved penalty list). Any way of making it work with happiness, science, production.... some governor?

How about:

Captain without a King
Flavor: A Great Captain, ~~disgraced by his former Liege, has offered to swear his sword to you.~~ has fled his homeland, accused of war crimes by his own people, despite his tactical genius. He has offered his services for your military.
Choice A: ~~His help is needed. Accept.~~ It sounds like he could very helpful to our cause (~~-Gold,~~ -Happiness, Gain one Great Captain, Major +Shadow)
Choice B: No - he will probably betray you. To prison with him. (~~+Shadow~~ +Light)
~~Choice C: No thanks (Nothing)~~
Choice C: Send him back to his homeland to face justice (+Happiness, Major +Light)

counterpoint said:
I like this one, mechanically, but don't understand the flavor of Choice B. Can it be elaborated upon to make more sense? Alternatively, if it's a "believe in ourselves" thing, this should be faith, or prestige.

Nightmare Walker
I'd be fine if B gave out Faith instead. Do we need to change the flavor then?

counterpoint said:
Shrewd Leader
Flavor: The leader of <nearby CS> has demonstrated her political prowess, often gaining a surprising upper hand in relations with other civs.
Choice A: Pledge your support to her and her sovereignty (+Influence with <nearby CS>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: She would serve you well as an adviser - make it so (Major -Influence with <nearby CS>, +Governor, +Shadow)
~~Choice C: Offer military support in exchange for her wisdom (+Culture, Minor +Influence with <nearby CS>, pledge to protect them)~~
Choice C: Perhaps her wisdom can inform your own rule - send your advisers to her court (+Culture, Minor +Influence with <nearby CS>)
Restriction: must have a CS adjacent your civ's borders

Looks good

counterpoint · Apr 22, 2015

Unbelievably, I'm doing another post today. I had a big meeting cancelled today...

only commenting on those that need commenting!

S3rgeus said:
There we go, they're all in flight now!

wait, what are we talking about?

S3rgeus said:
Thief-Taker Thing (I'll put the name in properly when it comes up later)

I see what you mean here, then! I agree, let's change option C.

Guild of Thief-Takers
ok, how about:

Choice C: Use them to confiscate the thieves' contraband (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)

Also, Option B needs to be phrased such that it's shady, or else shouldn't generate shadow.

S3rgeus said:
Unrest in your Lands

I totally agree that FD points is a penalty and should be changed. Food also seems like a nice bonus, but what's the flavor of this new Choice B? I don't see how a city gains food if there are too many mouths to feed.

Unrest in Your Lands
ok, how about this:

Choice B: Force them to relocate their farms to near to the capitol (+Food in Capitol, Minor +Shadow)
OR
Choice B: Relocate them to farms near to the capitol (+Food in Capitol)

S3rgeus said:
Famine Near <city you own here>
Changed A to specify <city>.

Finalized +2 pop.

Replaced C with your suggestion. Though how about +Shadow instead of Minor +Shadow for this one? Just so C and D don't have the same Shadow level.

Famine Near <City You own Here>
right. Actually, maybe I'd say D should be the minor shadow one.
Also, option C still says C/D.

S3rgeus said:
Looming Threat
Both! I've edited in your suggested B (replacing old B). And added the new Thread at the end of the second post.

Regarding Diplomatic Crisis, I think A should be Neutral.

OK, re Diplomatic Crisis, sure, A is neutral.

S3rgeus said:
A Tower Divided
I agree there should be variety in choices, but having some Threads where the choices reward the player bonus-wise similarly makes them more likely to choose based on Alignment. And that is also good.

Prestige is also a dangerous yield for us to use in a lot of these, since it's only useful to Culture victory players. It's annoyingly applicable to a lot of situations!

Dropped C.

A Tower Divided
What about Minor +Science and Minor +Prestige or Culture or something?

Also, I don't think this name works any longer (understanding that these names likely won't show up). How about Guilt by Association or something?

Also, off-topic, about Prestige. Tourism is obviously highly useless to most players, but does Prestige have to be?

Didn't we talk about how it could be used in some of the LB-related calculations - like who gets the dragon, dragon-control turn order, etc?

S3rgeus said:
Conscription
You mean change the flavor to make it like that? (Existing choice calls out Dragonsworn specifically.) Flavor wise it seems easier to justify whipping up the Dragonsworn against someone without having to pay them. Functionally, which of the two controls the units won't make a difference to the person defending from them.

I mean change the flavor and the unit. Dragonsworn seem to only appear in our game (as of this week) when accompanied by a Dragon. Thus, the more generic lawless makes much more sense.

Also, I find this a bit wordy and somewhat unrelated to the main content of the thread. How about something like:

Choice C: Simply recruit your enemy's people - send agents to incite a revolt in their cities (Lawless spawn near enemy, Minor +Shadow)

S3rgeus said:
Hero in the Pattern
I'm not sure, Culture and Prestige's usefulness tends to go hand in hand. For most players this is just two bonuses, Culture and Hawkwing. Culture players get an extra little bit, but this Thread should be applicable across the board.

Hero in the Pattern
ok. if you think that's balanced

S3rgeus said:
Rogue Coven
I think so. Considering the utility of a single instance of a strategic resource in base CiV, I think we can afford to give the player another one permanently. Most of them because relatively plentiful by the end of the game.

Rogue Coven
I don't know. Obviously we Spark is *like* a strategic resource, but do we really want it to be super duper plentify by end game? Don't we want it to still be somewhat a limiting factor?

Note, I'm probably fine with this being permanent in this case, though.

S3rgeus said:
Class Warfare
This will come up a couple of times, but I think having a couple that would be picked primarily by Neutral players makes sense. C is only strictly better than A if more Shadow is good for you. Especially in situations where the other choices all give you a decent chunk of Alignment (no Minor ones), having an "underpowered" Neutral-ish choice may convince some Neutral players to pick a side. (Which I think is what we want.)

Class Warfare
so you're happy with it the way it is, then?

S3rgeus said:
Unruly House
I think either Neutral or Minor +Light makes sense. The player is making a shrewd political maneuver that also ensures their people have food for the winter. Seems to err on the good side to me.

Unruly House
Wait, but isn't this you squeezing them for tons of food? Or are they *getting* food? It's unclear.

Also, I think we need to be clear on all the +Foods what exactly is happening, i.e. one city, all, etc. I've been usually assuming one, but we should probably specify if its the capitol or what.

S3rgeus said:
Foreign Preacher
A and B is Neutral-ness again. A Neutral player who sees this will start off thinking they'd never pick B (it nets tons of Shadow). But if they want Faith, they're already picking a Shadow option. If they take some more Shadow points, then they can get even more of that Faith they want. (This is a possible consideration for some Light players as well.)

Agreed on Pressure for D, I've taken that out. I think the Major Light and Minor Happiness are ok for the pressure in C, since the pressure isn't a significant cost is almost all cases.

Foreign Preacher
Eh, I see what you're saying for A and B. But they're so duplicative of each other in a way that I find pretty uninteresting. The neutral options should feel compelling. We can do it if you're convinced, though.

S3rgeus said:
Refugees
We could just axe B? It doesn't seem like we need another dimension on this one.

axe Refugees choice B

S3rgeus said:
Retainer is a Monarch
As B is the only Light option, I think we should add a choice D in that case. (Light player isn't forced to pay a cost otherwise go against Alignment.)

Reflavor for B: Remove them from their current duties and appoint them to public office (the removal from what they're doing now incurs the Prod cost)]

Choice D: Publicly acknowledge their position and make your capital the new center for <extinct civ> heritage (+Culture, Minor +Light)

Retainer is Monarch
yeah, looks good.

S3rgeus said:
Troubling Origins
We could make A Minor +Shadow and C Major +Shadow. Similar temptation situation for Neutrals as mentioned above.

Troubling Origins
right. This i'm more ok with. The difference between minor and MAJOR is, well, major! More compelling than the difference between regular and either major or minor.

S3rgeus said:
We could go with EXP as the reward for B, rather than Prestige?

Abandoned Post
sure, maybe minor exp though. (i imagine all the xp ones will be like that)

S3rgeus said:
Why Faith for C?

Channeler on the Run
Well, I didn't like thecurrent set up, seemed sort of the same as D. Faith because you have inspired your people, who hate channelers, with your actions. Basically, same concept as a happiness bonus.

Perhaps C could be the minor happiness, and D could be the faith?

S3rgeus said:
Removing the ol' Prestige from A, I see.

Do we mind that the only Light choice gives the player just Prestige?

Ogier Writer
well, maybe we can swap it, make A only prestige, and then B only culture.

But then again, sometimes the light option should be taken just because it's light, right?

Also, idea for D:

Choice D: My story does not need to be told - direct him towards more nobler figures (Major +Light)

That should only be added if we make B a bit more appetizing (i.e. not just prestige).

S3rgeus said:
Still a bit unsure about Prestige as a bonus in this situation. C is only really useful to Light culture players or max-out-Light players. Which I suppose isn't an insignificant proportion of players. Is there a more universal yield we could use instead? Happiness, Science, Production, Food?

Governor in Scandal
ok, make it science. maybe minor.

S3rgeus said:
No changes, right?

Nym Guardian
no changes

S3rgeus said:
Major Light for B?

Spoilage
sure, major light for b.

S3rgeus said:
How do the forbidden arts generate science? I agree we should change the flavor on this option.

Very direct:

Choice B: Redirect their idolatry to more scholarly endeavors

A bit more circumspect, but possibly too modern-world:

Choice B: Allow your scholars to study their development to better understand how people form organizations like this

Organized Cult
check our your original flavor for B. You had it them trying to "emulate the powers of the dark one," which seemed really over the top and sort of confusing to me. So I simplified the language but tried to preserve the basic concept. If you no longer like that concept, I could go with your first alternative (though it seems a little weird how that would come about).

In any case, forbidden arts = alchemy, construction of constructs, naughty ter angreals. Aginor stuff. I think it applies. just might need a better term.

S3rgeus said:
A bit reluctant about Prestige, but it should be on some of them, so sure.

wow, you *hate* prestige! Did prestige ditch you at a dance?

To wit: it went from no change to +Prestige. You'd rather it be *no bonus* than give out a little prestige?

S3rgeus said:
Guild of Thief-Takers
How about changing B to:

Choice B: They seem like they could pull their weight as forced labor instead (+Production in <city>, +Shadow)

Or some combination of that with all/some of the existing choices?

Guild of Thief-Takers
ok, sure. I like that. Also, I proposed a new C way above.

S3rgeus said:
Now that you've finished all of them! There's a strikethrough button in the top right of the post editor, next to the spoiler button. I've yet to find a keyboard shortcut.

oh, you mean the one that looks like a motherloving strikethrough?

counterpoint · Apr 22, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Does it need to be Minor +Exp for B? Most EXP bumps don't make a huge impact.

Wilder's Block
yeah, this came up above. I'm guessing they're *all* going to be minor. So, you're right.

S3rgeus said:
I think we should add a Light choice.

Choice C: Petition her for secrets to help drive the Shadowspawn back into the Blight. (+Science, +Light)

Legendary Sister
wow. no light choice!
Yours is fine.

S3rgeus said:
Captain without a King
Flavor: A Great Captain, ~~disgraced by his former Liege, has offered to swear his sword to you.~~ has fled his homeland, accused of war crimes by his own people, despite his tactical genius. He has offered his services for your military.
Choice A: ~~His help is needed. Accept.~~ It sounds like he could very helpful to our cause (~~-Gold,~~ -Happiness, Gain one Great Captain, Major +Shadow)
Choice B: No - he will probably betray you. To prison with him. (~~+Shadow~~ +Light)
~~Choice C: No thanks (Nothing)~~
Choice C: Send him back to his homeland to face justice (+Happiness, Major +Light)

Captain without a King
Sure! I like this. No longer Gareth Bryne, but so what?

I'm wondering if B should be Minor +Light, so this can be the neutral option and so it stands out as distinct from C. Also, it seems sort of self-serving (not done out of morals, but out of caution for his treason), so being a full +Light doesn't seem to fit.

Also, what about a shadow option that doesn't have a cost?

S3rgeus said:
Nightmare Walker
I'd be fine if B gave out Faith instead. Do we need to change the flavor then?

Nightmare Walker
No, I think the flavor is fine with B. Maybe we can say "ensuring your citizens will sleep easy" or something . On that note, maybe minor+happiness?

OK, so where we at? Doesn't seem like we're done, but THESE are all basically done.

Should we shift to "Mechanically driven" for now? Take stock of which things are missing and go from there?

Also, we can go by restriction - make sure we have a few for Liberation, Authority, NO authority, etc. Maybe there could be some for tall civs, or wide civs. A couple for civs with no religion. A few surrounding specific eras ( a high king one, etc.). You know, fill in the in-game needs.

easy way to go about moving forward?

S3rgeus · Apr 24, 2015

Sorry for the radio silence yesterday, I was out seeing the Avengers! Highly recommended viewing!

counterpoint said:
wait, what are we talking about?

That you'd covered all of the remaining Threads.

counterpoint said:
Guild of Thief-Takers
ok, how about:

Choice C: Use them to confiscate the thieves' contraband (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)

Also, Option B needs to be phrased such that it's shady, or else shouldn't generate shadow.

Done

counterpoint said:
Unrest in Your Lands
ok, how about this:

Choice B: Force them to relocate their farms to near to the capitol (+Food in Capitol, Minor +Shadow)
OR
Choice B: Relocate them to farms near to the capitol (+Food in Capitol)

First one sounds good. Done

counterpoint said:
Famine Near <City You own Here>
right. Actually, maybe I'd say D should be the minor shadow one.
Also, option C still says C/D.

Yeah, D is the minor Shadow one. Raising taxes due to a famine is evil!

Fixed C/D label on C.

counterpoint said:
OK, re Diplomatic Crisis, sure, A is neutral.

Done

counterpoint said:
A Tower Divided
What about Minor +Science and Minor +Prestige or Culture or something?

Also, I don't think this name works any longer (understanding that these names likely won't show up). How about Guilt by Association or something?

Sure, Minor +Prestige and Minor +Science (replacing previously +Science).

Renamed it too - I like Guilt by Association!

counterpoint said:
Also, off-topic, about Prestige. Tourism is obviously highly useless to most players, but does Prestige have to be?

Didn't we talk about how it could be used in some of the LB-related calculations - like who gets the dragon, dragon-control turn order, etc?

Yeah, we said Prestige was one of the main mechanisms that determines the Dragon's turn order. That's still relatively niche in terms of the whole game though, when compared to things like Food (gives you more pop, which makes you better at everything), Production (makes everything), and Science (better at everything again).

We could change it so Prestige is more useful across the board, but that would likely lead to a necessity to rebalance all of the numbers for Prestige vs Culture. I think we might have to stretch to find other things for Prestige to help with as well, which wouldn't be good.

counterpoint said:
I mean change the flavor and the unit. Dragonsworn seem to only appear in our game (as of this week) when accompanied by a Dragon. Thus, the more generic lawless makes much more sense.

Also, I find this a bit wordy and somewhat unrelated to the main content of the thread. How about something like:

Choice C: Simply recruit your enemy's people - send agents to incite a revolt in their cities (Lawless spawn near enemy, Minor +Shadow)

Done

counterpoint said:
Hero in the Pattern
ok. if you think that's balanced

Done

counterpoint said:
Rogue Coven
I don't know. Obviously we Spark is *like* a strategic resource, but do we really want it to be super duper plentify by end game? Don't we want it to still be somewhat a limiting factor?

Note, I'm probably fine with this being permanent in this case, though.

Agreed, I think we want Spark to be most like Uranium, of the BNW strategic resources. That's the only one I'm ever worried about my stockpiles of at the end of the game.

Permanent bonus for this Thread sounds good.

counterpoint said:
Class Warfare
so you're happy with it the way it is, then?

Yeah, I think it will be fine.

counterpoint said:
Unruly House
Wait, but isn't this you squeezing them for tons of food? Or are they *getting* food? It's unclear.

Also, I think we need to be clear on all the +Foods what exactly is happening, i.e. one city, all, etc. I've been usually assuming one, but we should probably specify if its the capitol or what.

You're not squeezing them for food, you're burying them under a ton of administrative duties to do with food supplies. How about:

Choice C: Occupy them elsewhere, an entire nation's worth of provisions requests can be redirected for them co-ordinate (+Food in capital, Minor +Light)

counterpoint said:
Foreign Preacher
Eh, I see what you're saying for A and B. But they're so duplicative of each other in a way that I find pretty uninteresting. The neutral options should feel compelling. We can do it if you're convinced, though.

I think in this case the Neutral option's primary purpose is to tempt the player to choose the more Alignment-affecting one. Some players will only need a nudge to commit to a side, and some of the Threads presenting that as an obvious "upgrade" can do that.

counterpoint said:
axe Refugees choice B

Done

counterpoint said:
Retainer is Monarch
yeah, looks good.

Done

counterpoint said:
Troubling Origins
right. This i'm more ok with. The difference between minor and MAJOR is, well, major! More compelling than the difference between regular and either major or minor.

Done

counterpoint said:
Abandoned Post
sure, maybe minor exp though. (i imagine all the xp ones will be like that)

As discussed below, gonna leave off the minor!

counterpoint said:
Channeler on the Run
Well, I didn't like thecurrent set up, seemed sort of the same as D. Faith because you have inspired your people, who hate channelers, with your actions. Basically, same concept as a happiness bonus.

Perhaps C could be the minor happiness, and D could be the faith?

Done

counterpoint said:
Ogier Writer
well, maybe we can swap it, make A only prestige, and then B only culture.

But then again, sometimes the light option should be taken just because it's light, right?

Also, idea for D:

Choice D: My story does not need to be told - direct him towards more nobler figures (Major +Light)

That should only be added if we make B a bit more appetizing (i.e. not just prestige).

What if we make D a costed big-bonus one, like:

Choice D: He could write about much nobler figures, finance his career instead (Major -Gold, Receive <Great Writer equivalent>, Major +Light)

I don't think swapping Prestige and Culture between A and B helps us. Maybe Prestige by itself is fine for B (I did have it out for Prestige last time after all) since this is a very Culture-heavy Thread.

counterpoint said:
Governor in Scandal
ok, make it science. maybe minor.

Done

counterpoint said:
Nym Guardian
no changes

Done

counterpoint said:
Spoilage
sure, major light for b.

Done

counterpoint said:
Organized Cult
check our your original flavor for B. You had it them trying to "emulate the powers of the dark one," which seemed really over the top and sort of confusing to me. So I simplified the language but tried to preserve the basic concept. If you no longer like that concept, I could go with your first alternative (though it seems a little weird how that would come about).

In any case, forbidden arts = alchemy, construction of constructs, naughty ter angreals. Aginor stuff. I think it applies. just might need a better term.

Ah, ok, I see! I agree my first concept (the first one in my last post) was quite weird, I'm not quite sure how it would come about either.

What about this:

Choice C: Perhaps they can help rediscover some of the Shadow's lost, more "scholarly" secrets. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)

counterpoint said:
wow, you *hate* prestige! Did prestige ditch you at a dance?

To wit: it went from no change to +Prestige. You'd rather it be *no bonus* than give out a little prestige?

Me and Prestige, we had this thing. But it didn't work out, see, and it's left me burned.

Anyway, nope, I definitely wouldn't prefer no bonus! I definitely think we should change it, and Prestige is fine for this one.

counterpoint said:
Guild of Thief-Takers
ok, sure. I like that. Also, I proposed a new C way above.

Done

counterpoint said:
Wilder's Block
yeah, this came up above. I'm guessing they're *all* going to be minor. So, you're right.

Cool, sounds good.

counterpoint said:
Legendary Sister
wow. no light choice!
Yours is fine.

Done

counterpoint said:
Captain without a King
Sure! I like this. No longer Gareth Bryne, but so what?

I'm wondering if B should be Minor +Light, so this can be the neutral option and so it stands out as distinct from C. Also, it seems sort of self-serving (not done out of morals, but out of caution for his treason), so being a full +Light doesn't seem to fit.

Also, what about a shadow option that doesn't have a cost?

Sounds good on Minor Light for B.

Indeed, we need a costless Shadow option:

Choice D: We can still use him, just keep him out of the public eye (+EXP for X units, +Shadow)

Possibly Minor +Shadow?

counterpoint said:
Nightmare Walker
No, I think the flavor is fine with B. Maybe we can say "ensuring your citizens will sleep easy" or something . On that note, maybe minor+happiness?

Minor +Happiness instead or as well? This also seems more like a Light option now, than it did before. Possibly more so than A?

counterpoint said:
OK, so where we at? Doesn't seem like we're done, but THESE are all basically done.

Should we shift to "Mechanically driven" for now? Take stock of which things are missing and go from there?

Also, we can go by restriction - make sure we have a few for Liberation, Authority, NO authority, etc. Maybe there could be some for tall civs, or wide civs. A couple for civs with no religion. A few surrounding specific eras ( a high king one, etc.). You know, fill in the in-game needs.

easy way to go about moving forward?

Yeah, almost all of the above are finished for this phase! Mechanically driven seems like a good plan, we have definitely missed some places. As you've said, there's nothing about the High King yet! (And nothing about the Trolloc Wars, specifically, either.)

Targeting tall and wide is also good (city # requirements should do that nicely). And making sure we've got some tailored to each Philosophy (and some not for each Philosophy) sounds like a good plan. Same for Fear and Tolerance.

I'll post up a quick overview tomorrow of the kinds of bonuses we've given out in the existing Threads, so we can see if some bonus types are over- or under-represented. And new Thread suggestions too!

counterpoint · Apr 24, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Sorry for the radio silence yesterday, I was out seeing the Avengers! Highly recommended viewing!

wait, the movie, or the actual Avengers?

S3rgeus said:
Yeah, we said Prestige was one of the main mechanisms that determines the Dragon's turn order. That's still relatively niche in terms of the whole game though, when compared to things like Food (gives you more pop, which makes you better at everything), Production (makes everything), and Science (better at everything again).

We could change it so Prestige is more useful across the board, but that would likely lead to a necessity to rebalance all of the numbers for Prestige vs Culture. I think we might have to stretch to find other things for Prestige to help with as well, which wouldn't be good.

right. I agree with this sentiment.

S3rgeus said:
Agreed, I think we want Spark to be most like Uranium, of the BNW strategic resources. That's the only one I'm ever worried about my stockpiles of at the end of the game.

Permanent bonus for this Thread sounds good.

good. agreed.

S3rgeus said:
You're not squeezing them for food, you're burying them under a ton of administrative duties to do with food supplies. How about:

Choice C: Occupy them elsewhere, an entire nation's worth of provisions requests can be redirected for them co-ordinate (+Food in capital, Minor +Light)

Unruly House
Yes. That makes more sense. I think we can make it very unconfusing when we do the actual writing later.

S3rgeus said:
I think in this case the Neutral option's primary purpose is to tempt the player to choose the more Alignment-affecting one. Some players will only need a nudge to commit to a side, and some of the Threads presenting that as an obvious "upgrade" can do that.

Foreign Preacher
alright. If you like it, let it be done.

S3rgeus said:
What if we make D a costed big-bonus one, like:

Choice D: He could write about much nobler figures, finance his career instead (Major -Gold, Receive <Great Writer equivalent>, Major +Light)

I don't think swapping Prestige and Culture between A and B helps us. Maybe Prestige by itself is fine for B (I did have it out for Prestige last time after all) since this is a very Culture-heavy Thread.

Ogier Writer
I'm fine with a costed-up bonus, but we aren't supposed to be using Gold as one of the Costs. Suggestion:

Choice D: He should write about much nobler figures. Loan him a team of scholars to assist his efforts (-Science, Receive <Great Writer equivalent>, Major +Light)

Can follow your lead on how A and B work out.

S3rgeus said:
Ah, ok, I see! I agree my first concept (the first one in my last post) was quite weird, I'm not quite sure how it would come about either.

What about this:

Choice C: Perhaps they can help rediscover some of the Shadow's lost, more "scholarly" secrets. (Minor +Science, Minor +Shadow)

Organized Cult
right. good.

S3rgeus said:
Me and Prestige, we had this thing. But it didn't work out, see, and it's left me burned.

I gotcha. I also recall that your parents were killed by a raiding band of Score.

S3rgeus said:
Sounds good on Minor Light for B.

Indeed, we need a costless Shadow option:

Choice D: We can still use him, just keep him out of the public eye (+EXP for X units, +Shadow)

Possibly Minor +Shadow?

Captain Without a King
I like it! Um, I think +Shadow is probably fine.

S3rgeus said:
Minor +Happiness instead or as well? This also seems more like a Light option now, than it did before. Possibly more so than A?

Nightmare Walker
As much as I am hesitant to remove culture ones, I'm tempted to say Instead Of.

But yeah, this should be a light option now. Probably +Light. I think A or D (not both)could actually go to neutral.

S3rgeus said:
Yeah, almost all of the above are finished for this phase! Mechanically driven seems like a good plan, we have definitely missed some places. As you've said, there's nothing about the High King yet! (And nothing about the Trolloc Wars, specifically, either.)

Targeting tall and wide is also good (city # requirements should do that nicely). And making sure we've got some tailored to each Philosophy (and some not for each Philosophy) sounds like a good plan. Same for Fear and Tolerance.

I'll post up a quick overview tomorrow of the kinds of bonuses we've given out in the existing Threads, so we can see if some bonus types are over- or under-represented. And new Thread suggestions too!

OK, sounds good. We can keep going once we have a better sense of where the need is. I searched around and found your previous list of what you thought we might use as bonuses. Here they are, and my comments on how much we've used them:

Yields - ( specify below)
Gold - I suspect we're good here
Faith - we might find a little more room for these
Science - same as with Faith
Culture - same as with science
Prestige - We're probably fine here
Production - we could probably use a few more of these
Food - I think we might be alright. There aren't many, but we probably don't want many.

Military Units - This one is still rare, and that's probably fine.
Aes Sedai Quota - I think we haven't done this at all (though we've granted a sister). I'm not sure I actually love increasing this, though. Probably best not to.
Tower Influence - I think we're probably alright here
GPs - We probably need to expand this. These are almost always Costed, which is good. But we don't have Scientist or Engineer or Prophet ones, as is.
GP Points - This is a lower-tier version of above, and we can probably go out of our way to do more of these. Could be a nice alternative when we have too much sameness in a thread (i.e. have one choice give Gold and another give Great Merchant points)
Civilian Units (Settlers, workers.) - we haven't done this much, but we probably shouldn't do it too often, either. Also, there are heralds and missionaries to consider, which we haven't done. Not sure we need it, though.
Combat bonuses - we have a couple EXP bonuses, which IMO should stay rare, but we could go with a few more. Can also be more specific (e.g. +10% vs Shadowspawn), but these things would probably need to be turn-limited, which doesn't jive with how most of the other threads have been.
Technologies - we haven't done these. These would certainly need to be Costed.
Buildings - We have a couple of these. That might be enough, but if we want to diversify a bit, that could be good.
Golden Age - haven't done this, but this would be great, I think. Probably a great alternative to some of the ones where we think the flavor asks for prestige, or happiness, but we don't want to do it. Can be Costed with an actual GA, or regular by just doling out points towards a GA
Great Works - this should be rare, and costed. I think we only have one right now, though.
False Dragon points - removing them, obviously. We haven't done this, and probably could do so a bit more.
Male channeler points - Don't think we'll wanna touch this.

all right, then!

S3rgeus · Apr 25, 2015

counterpoint said:
wait, the movie, or the actual Avengers?

The actual Avengers, but I do also recommend the movie!

counterpoint said:
Unruly House
Yes. That makes more sense. I think we can make it very unconfusing when we do the actual writing later.

Done

counterpoint said:
Foreign Preacher
alright. If you like it, let it be done.

Done

counterpoint said:
Ogier Writer
I'm fine with a costed-up bonus, but we aren't supposed to be using Gold as one of the Costs. Suggestion:

Choice D: He should write about much nobler figures. Loan him a team of scholars to assist his efforts (-Science, Receive <Great Writer equivalent>, Major +Light)

Can follow your lead on how A and B work out.

Done

counterpoint said:
Organized Cult
right. good.

Done

counterpoint said:
I gotcha. I also recall that your parents were killed by a raiding band of Score.

Score!

Spoiler :

counterpoint said:
Captain Without a King
I like it! Um, I think +Shadow is probably fine.

Cool, done

counterpoint said:
Nightmare Walker
As much as I am hesitant to remove culture ones, I'm tempted to say Instead Of.

But yeah, this should be a light option now. Probably +Light. I think A or D (not both)could actually go to neutral.

Cool, I agree. I removed Minor +Light from A and added +Light to B.

counterpoint said:
OK, sounds good. We can keep going once we have a better sense of where the need is. I searched around and found your previous list of what you thought we might use as bonuses. Here they are, and my comments on how much we've used them:

Yields - ( specify below)
Gold - I suspect we're good here
Faith - we might find a little more room for these
Science - same as with Faith
Culture - same as with science
Prestige - We're probably fine here
Production - we could probably use a few more of these
Food - I think we might be alright. There aren't many, but we probably don't want many.

Military Units - This one is still rare, and that's probably fine.
Aes Sedai Quota - I think we haven't done this at all (though we've granted a sister). I'm not sure I actually love increasing this, though. Probably best not to.
Tower Influence - I think we're probably alright here
GPs - We probably need to expand this. These are almost always Costed, which is good. But we don't have Scientist or Engineer or Prophet ones, as is.
GP Points - This is a lower-tier version of above, and we can probably go out of our way to do more of these. Could be a nice alternative when we have too much sameness in a thread (i.e. have one choice give Gold and another give Great Merchant points)
Civilian Units (Settlers, workers.) - we haven't done this much, but we probably shouldn't do it too often, either. Also, there are heralds and missionaries to consider, which we haven't done. Not sure we need it, though.
Combat bonuses - we have a couple EXP bonuses, which IMO should stay rare, but we could go with a few more. Can also be more specific (e.g. +10% vs Shadowspawn), but these things would probably need to be turn-limited, which doesn't jive with how most of the other threads have been.
Technologies - we haven't done these. These would certainly need to be Costed.
Buildings - We have a couple of these. That might be enough, but if we want to diversify a bit, that could be good.
Golden Age - haven't done this, but this would be great, I think. Probably a great alternative to some of the ones where we think the flavor asks for prestige, or happiness, but we don't want to do it. Can be Costed with an actual GA, or regular by just doling out points towards a GA
Great Works - this should be rare, and costed. I think we only have one right now, though.
False Dragon points - removing them, obviously. We haven't done this, and probably could do so a bit more.
Male channeler points - Don't think we'll wanna touch this.

all right, then!

Right, I've run some numbers on the "normal" bonuses (ones that are predictably phrased, like +Faith, Minor +Science, etc.)

Firstly, I'm super impressed by our Alignment consistency. Check out the total number of choices that give you different yields of each Alignment:

Alignment Breakdown (# Choices) in Minor, Normal, Major, Total order
Light 41, 49, 13, 103
Shadow 41, 52, 11, 104

This means that between all of the choices we've come up with across the current 68 (!) Threads, we've only ended up with one more Shadow choice than Light one. The biggest difference is in Major rewards for each side, where Light is 2 ahead.

Now for the other yield bonuses:

Bonus Breakdown (# Choices) in Minor, Normal, Major, Total order
Food 1, 10, 0, 11
Gold 5, 15, 2, 22
Production, 0, 2, 0, 2
Culture, 6, 23, 0, 29
Prestige, 3, 19, 0, 22
Faith 3, 16, 1, 20
Happiness 15, 14, 0, 29
Science 11, 13, 0, 24
EXP 0, 3, 0, 3
Tower Influence 3, 12, 0, 15

This is relatively difficult to read on the forum, I've dropped an Excel sheet into the DropBox. This count is in "number of choices" that give a specific bonus. (So if it comes up twice in a single Thread, it gets counted twice.) An alternative view of it is how many Threads give each bonus. (So how many Threads are there that have at least one bonus that gives you X.) That's shown below:

Food 8
Gold 18
Production 2
Culture 22
Prestige 21
Faith 18
Happiness 26
Science 18
EXP 3
Tower Inf 13

Large differences between the numbers from the first table and the second table indicate that the rewards which give out a certain bonus tend to be grouped onto Threads. (Multiple choices in the same Thread giving out the same yield as a reward.)

A few surprises overall:

Happiness is our most frequently-used reward, at 29 total choices that give Happiness in some capacity. We've completely avoided Major +Happiness, for good reason, because Happiness is powerful. It's also grouped relatively infrequently - 26 Thread Count vs 29 Choice Count. (There are 26 Threads with one or more choices that give you Happiness.)

Culture is also tied for our most frequently used reward. But it groups a lot more than Happiness does, having the highest Thread Count (22) vs Choice Count (29) difference of any yield (7).

I think this indicates we should hold off on Happiness completely for a while and reduce our incidence of Culture rewards. Any Culture rewards we do give out should probably be the only Culture reward in a given Thread.

Science comes in a close second for grouping difference (Thread Count (18) vs Choice Count (24)) with 6. It's also our third-most frequently used reward.

Gold comes in at fourth overall with 22 choices. It has a relatively low grouping difference of 4.

This also tells us that, as you've said, Faith is under-represented. Faith and Gold are the only two bonus yields that have any Major bonuses, with 2 Gold and 1 Faith.

In all cases except Happiness, we've got more Normal yields than Minor or Major ones. And even in the Happiness case, there's only 1 more Minor than Normal. This general proportion makes sense to me, though we might consider some more on the extremes of the yield payouts. Having some Majors for Production, Science, Prestige, and possibly Food could be good.

The other ones that you've brought up: GP points, Golden Age points, removing FD points, Units, GWs, Buildings, Techs, and combat bonuses all sound good. I'd be fine leaving Aes Sedai Quota and male channeler points alone, especially since the player doesn't see these values directly.

Of the "new" ones we want to cover, FD points are the only ones where the player can't see the underlying numbers. How would we describe a loss of FD points to the player?

I also think we can afford to have more Production bonuses, possibly bringing them up to a similar level to Food. I think Food is fine where it is now, at least as a proportion of our current total. EXP could probably be a bit higher, but I don't think it needs to be as prolific as either Food or Production.

I'm also fine with the current proportion of Tower Influence. If anything we could decrease it marginally, IMO.

I didn't count GP types, but you're right that we don't have any scientists, prophets, or engineers. Which we should definitely do, seeing as they're quite important. It's good that we're marking the GP rewards in red for the moment, because once we discuss GPs, we may need to make some changes to these. (If there is no direct analogue for some BNW GP types, more tweaking will be in order.)

I think we can afford to have more Gold bonuses than we do now. It seems to me that Gold should be one of the most plentiful rewards. Not necessarily by a long shot, but more like in the position that Happiness and Culture are in now compared to the others.

So, with all of that in mind, here are some new Threads:

Homage to the High King
Flavor: The people's opinion of the High King is at an all time high, and you have an opportunity to capitalize on that.
Choice A: Sell forgeries of High King portraits to your people (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice B: Encourage merchants to trade goods the High King is famous for far and wide (+GP points (<Great Merchant equivalent>))
Choice C: Arrange for a royal parade on the streets of your capital, where the High King shall greet the people in person (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Restriction: There must currently be a High King

I've tried to tweak the wording so it also makes sense if the High King civ itself sees this Thread.

Crowns and Swords
Flavor: One of your finest goldsmiths has offered to forge a crown for you fit for a High King.
Choice A: You should look your part as ruler (+Prestige)
Choice B: The goldsmith would be better off making things we can sell (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: The goldsmith can advise other smiths on his technique, improving metalworking for everyone (+Production in capital, +Light)
Restriction: There must have been or currently be a High King in this game

Play at Power
Flavor: One of your Eyes and Ears reports that one of the High King's advisers is likely plotting against his majesty's life.
Choice A: Warn the High King (+Prestige, Major +Light)
Choice B: Sell the name of the adviser to the High King's government (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Game of Houses is dangerous, perhaps this adviser could have an "accident" (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: There must be a High King and he must not be you

I tried to make this next one quite powerful. What do you think?

King of All
Flavor: The Blight grows restless and, as the High King, you wield enough power to rouse the nations against any Shadowspawn that seek to range beyond their home.
Choice A: Muster your forces and urge the Provinces to step up their defenses, sending men and supplies to the Blightborder (Major +Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: If the Borderlanders are willing to hand over some of their weapons technology, you could be convinced to help find troops for the war effort (Free technology, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Borderlanders will fight and die as they always do, we can thrive in peace while they defend us (+Food and +Production in capital, +Culture, +Science, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: The High King should lead from the front. Lead your armies in victory against the Shadowspawn. (Major +Prestige, +Happiness, +Faith, Major +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King

Seafaring Progeny
Flavor: One of your children wishes to expand your kingdom by sailing across the sea and claiming a new continent in the name of the High King.
Choice A: Send your child off with a grand ceremony (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: We can certainly build ships, but they are better off defending our waters than sailing off into the unknown (Gain naval units, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Send some of your best advisers along too. They will be missed at home, but their departure marks the beginning of a new era for your reign. (-Production in capital, Golden Age Begins, Major +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King, must have a coastal city

Endless Tides
Flavor: The Trollocs' attacks are taking their toll on your soldiers' faith in the Creator. Rumors of mutiny and desertion abound in your forces.
Choice A: Visit the front lines in person, encouraging your men to stay strong (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: If enough of them die, a martyr is bound to rise from the ashes. A few "unfortunate" sorties toward the Blight should see to that. (Sacrifice X strength of units, Gain <Great Prophet equivalent>, Major +Shadow)
Choice C: Mutiny and desertion will not be tolerated. Ensure your generals know to keep the men in line or they face the headsman. (Minor +EXP, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars or Last Battle must be currently taking place

Delayed Harvest
Flavor: Many of your farmers have been conscripted into your armies to fight the Trollocs. There is a serious risk of those who remain being unable to pull in a harvest before winter.
Choice A: Redirect your capital's city guard to help with the harvest (+Food in capital, +Light)
Choice B: Your inventors are excited about a new invention that makes mills more efficient, see if they can't make do with the farmers we have (Minor +Science)
Choice C: We can send more soldiers home to till their fields if we tell the Shadowspawn where more valuable targets lie abroad (+Food in capital, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars or Last Battle must be currently taking place

Glowbulbs and Fire
Flavor: An artifact from the Age of Legends is rumored to be buried deep in the Blight. It is supposed to hold secrets of an ancient technology for creating light, more efficient than any fire.
Choice A: Mount an expedition into the Blight to find it (Sacrifice X power of units, Free Technology, +Light)
Choice B: Sponsor a fair for your greatest inventors to improve the efficiency of torches instead (+GP points (<Great Scientist Equivalent>))
Choice C: If we tell the Shadow that such power lies within their reach, the Shadowspawn may be less inclined to range out of the Blight while they search (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in Era of Freedom, must be able to see the Blight

Across the Sea
Flavor: Rumors abound that there are new riches on unknown continents across the ocean. Various guilds have requested that you allow them to mount an expedition across the sea, offering to construct a fleet of their own to travel.
Choice A: Allow the scholars to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent>))
Choice B: Allow the artists to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Artist equivalent>))
Choice C: Allow the devout to man the new fleet (+Faith)
Choice D: This journey is foolish, seize the fleet once it is constructed (Gain naval units, +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in the Era of New Beginnings, must have a coastal city

Tree Poachers
Flavor: A representative of the Ogier from <nearby Stedding> has approached your court with news that loggers from your nation have been felling trees in and around their Stedding.
Choice A: This is an outrage! Outlaw the practice at once. (+Influence with <nearby Stedding>, +Light)
Choice B: The lumber they bring back from the Stedding is of highest quality and makes fine furniture (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: Sung Wood stokes forges like no other, the logging will continue with renewed vigor (-Influence with <nearby Stedding>, Major +Production in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Seize the assets of any loggers who have helped cut down the Sung Wood to make the business unprofitable for them (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Must have met a Stedding (on the same continent) that is still alive

Cautionary Tale
Flavor: A False Dragon has risen up with an army of Dragonsworn at his back. Your people are afraid and seek guidance.
Choice A: Publicize his atrocities as a warning against any others who would call themselves the Dragon (-FD points, Minor +Light)
Choice B: The Karaethon Cycle should be better understood by your people. Have some of your scholars take time to make a copy available to your people (Minor -Science, Gain GW of Writing, +Light)
Choice C: This man represents a recruitment opportunity - take in any who will fight against him (Gain a military unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: He may not be liked, but the man seems relatively lucid. You may be able to convince some people that the Taint is not so bad. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: A False Dragon you are aware of must be alive. Must have a GW of writing slot available somewhere. Saidin cannot have been cleansed.

Flourishing Inventions
Flavor: Scholars in <city> are flourishing, inventing new devices and furthering the cause of your nation.
Choice A: That's great (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent>), Minor +Light)
Choice B: I have need of some new weapons and they seem well suited to make them (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Scientist equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the arts also receive emphasis there (+Culture, +Light)
Restriction: must have more than one city

Flourishing Arts
Flavor: All forms of the arts are flourishing in <city>, creating new forms of expression and pushing the bounds of artistic knowledge.
Choice A: That's great (Minor +GP points to all three 'Culture' GP types, Minor +Light)
Choice B: You must commission them for work based on yourself, and only yourself, occupying them for some months in the process (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Writer equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the sciences also receive emphasis there (+Science, +Light)

Talented Artisan
Flavor: A talented artisan has gained fame for his skill with architecture, having built several well known buildings in your capital.
Choice A: He could be convinced to work exclusively for the crown (-1 Pop in capital, Gain <Great Engineer equivalent>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: His work is much admired and should be allowed to continue (+Production in capital, +Light)
Choice C: There are more mundane things that he could be "convinced" to design for the city (Gain <building> in capital, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Close his existing structures off from the public and charge entry for people to view them (+Gold, +Shadow)

I'll stop there for now! I've still left out Fear vs Tolerance and Authority, Oppression, and Liberation numbers (I imagine we need some for each) restrictions.

counterpoint · Apr 26, 2015

S3rgeus said:
Right, I've run some numbers on the "normal" bonuses (ones that are predictably phrased, like +Faith, Minor +Science, etc.)

Firstly, I'm super impressed by our Alignment consistency. Check out the total number of choices that give you different yields of each Alignment:

Alignment Breakdown (# Choices) in Minor, Normal, Major, Total order
Light 41, 49, 13, 103
Shadow 41, 52, 11, 104

Wow. That seems quite crazy. I can see how the total values would be quite similar, since most threads attempt balance, but the specific subcategories being so close is quite impressive.

S3rgeus said:
This means that between all of the choices we've come up with across the current 68 (!) Threads, we've only ended up with one more Shadow choice than Light one. The biggest difference is in Major rewards for each side, where Light is 2 ahead.

We could rectify that, of course, but I could also see us ending up with more Major Light options and being fine with that.

S3rgeus said:
Now for the other yield bonuses:

Bonus Breakdown (# Choices) in Minor, Normal, Major, Total order
Food 1, 10, 0, 11
Gold 5, 15, 2, 22
Production, 0, 2, 0, 2
Culture, 6, 23, 0, 29
Prestige, 3, 19, 0, 22
Faith 3, 16, 1, 20
Happiness 15, 14, 0, 29
Science 11, 13, 0, 24
EXP 0, 3, 0, 3
Tower Influence 3, 12, 0, 15

This is relatively difficult to read on the forum, I've dropped an Excel sheet into the DropBox. This count is in "number of choices" that give a specific bonus. (So if it comes up twice in a single Thread, it gets counted twice.) An alternative view of it is how many Threads give each bonus. (So how many Threads are there that have at least one bonus that gives you X.) That's shown below:

Food 8
Gold 18
Production 2
Culture 22
Prestige 21
Faith 18
Happiness 26
Science 18
EXP 3
Tower Inf 13

Large differences between the numbers from the first table and the second table indicate that the rewards which give out a certain bonus tend to be grouped onto Threads. (Multiple choices in the same Thread giving out the same yield as a reward.)

A few surprises overall:

Happiness is our most frequently-used reward, at 29 total choices that give Happiness in some capacity. We've completely avoided Major +Happiness, for good reason, because Happiness is powerful. It's also grouped relatively infrequently - 26 Thread Count vs 29 Choice Count. (There are 26 Threads with one or more choices that give you Happiness.)

Culture is also tied for our most frequently used reward. But it groups a lot more than Happiness does, having the highest Thread Count (22) vs Choice Count (29) difference of any yield (7).

I think this indicates we should hold off on Happiness completely for a while and reduce our incidence of Culture rewards. Any Culture rewards we do give out should probably be the only Culture reward in a given Thread.

Science comes in a close second for grouping difference (Thread Count (18) vs Choice Count (24)) with 6. It's also our third-most frequently used reward.

Gold comes in at fourth overall with 22 choices. It has a relatively low grouping difference of 4.

This also tells us that, as you've said, Faith is under-represented. Faith and Gold are the only two bonus yields that have any Major bonuses, with 2 Gold and 1 Faith.

I can say that i'm pretty surprised to see Culture come up so frequently. It feels like the Culture bonuses were often last-minute or shrug-worthy additions. Still, I guess I add up. The prevalence of happiness and science is also somewhat surprising. The lack of gold addition is definitely surprising.

S3rgeus said:
In all cases except Happiness, we've got more Normal yields than Minor or Major ones. And even in the Happiness case, there's only 1 more Minor than Normal. This general proportion makes sense to me, though we might consider some more on the extremes of the yield payouts. Having some Majors for Production, Science, Prestige, and possibly Food could be good.

I'm not sure we need to have Major payouts for everything. Certainly food feels a little weird. We can add them, but I'm not sure they're needed.

S3rgeus said:
The other ones that you've brought up: GP points, Golden Age points, removing FD points, Units, GWs, Buildings, Techs, and combat bonuses all sound good. I'd be fine leaving Aes Sedai Quota and male channeler points alone, especially since the player doesn't see these values directly.

Of the "new" ones we want to cover, FD points are the only ones where the player can't see the underlying numbers. How would we describe a loss of FD points to the player?

Yeah, FD points is weird. Weird enough that it may be worth excluding them. As far as how we'd represent them to the player... I don't know. Would we be really vague ('makes a False Dragon less likely to appear') or more specific ('delays a FD by X turns'). Differentiating between minor, normal and major also seems like it would be difficult.

S3rgeus said:
I also think we can afford to have more Production bonuses, possibly bringing them up to a similar level to Food. I think Food is fine where it is now, at least as a proportion of our current total. EXP could probably be a bit higher, but I don't think it needs to be as prolific as either Food or Production.

agreed.

I'm also fine with the current proportion of Tower Influence. If anything we could decrease it marginally, IMO.[/quote]
Yeah, sure.

S3rgeus said:
I didn't count GP types, but you're right that we don't have any scientists, prophets, or engineers. Which we should definitely do, seeing as they're quite important. It's good that we're marking the GP rewards in red for the moment, because once we discuss GPs, we may need to make some changes to these. (If there is no direct analogue for some BNW GP types, more tweaking will be in order.)

Yeah, all the GP stuff will obviously be tentative. I will say, though, that it does seem that we may be unlikely to include the admiral as a true GP, though.

S3rgeus said:
I think we can afford to have more Gold bonuses than we do now. It seems to me that Gold should be one of the most plentiful rewards. Not necessarily by a long shot, but more like in the position that Happiness and Culture are in now compared to the others.

definitely agree.

OOH, before I forget - another thing we could add - resources (luxury or strategic). I think we have exactly one of those, already.

S3rgeus said:
So, with all of that in mind, here are some new Threads:

Homage to the High King
Flavor: The people's opinion of the High King is at an all time high, and you have an opportunity to capitalize on that.
Choice A: Sell forgeries of High King portraits to your people (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice B: Encourage merchants to trade goods the High King is famous for far and wide (+GP points (<Great Merchant equivalent>))
Choice C: Arrange for a royal parade on the streets of your capital, where the High King shall greet the people in person (+Faith, Minor +Light)
Restriction: There must currently be a High King

I've tried to tweak the wording so it also makes sense if the High King civ itself sees this Thread.

eh, A seems a little cheesy. Forgeries of HK portraits? It's not like the HK is a famous artist. How exactly are they "forgeries"? The notion also seems a little anachronistic. Maybe it should be selling counterfeit heirlooms or things like that. Still cheesy, but a bit more believable.
I feel somewhat similarly about the flavor of B. Goods the HK is famous for? That feels odd to me. Maybe it needs some clarification.
C is fine.

S3rgeus said:
Crowns and Swords
Flavor: One of your finest goldsmiths has offered to forge a crown for you fit for a High King.
Choice A: You should look your part as ruler (+Prestige)
Choice B: The goldsmith would be better off making things we can sell (+Gold, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: The goldsmith can advise other smiths on his technique, improving metalworking for everyone (+Production in capital, +Light)
Restriction: There must have been or currently be a High King in this game

This one definitely seems to me that you need to *be* the high king. Why are they crowning you if you aren't the high king? If you aren't the HK, then this one seems like it could take place in any era, and have no mention of the HK.
B should probably specify that they are being forced to do so or something, otherwise I don't understand the +Shadow element.

S3rgeus said:
Play at Power
Flavor: One of your Eyes and Ears reports that one of the High King's advisers is likely plotting against his majesty's life.
Choice A: Warn the High King (+Prestige, Major +Light)
Choice B: Sell the name of the adviser to the High King's government (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Game of Houses is dangerous, perhaps this adviser could have an "accident" (Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: There must be a High King and he must not be you

I like these, but I'm not sure about C. I know it's the neutral choice, but it does seem like it sticks out a bit, not having any yield bonus aside from the alignment. It can be fine, but I doubt people will take this. The difference between +S and M+S is likely not worth the loss of gold.

S3rgeus said:
I tried to make this next one quite powerful. What do you think?

King of All
Flavor: The Blight grows restless and, as the High King, you wield enough power to rouse the nations against any Shadowspawn that seek to range beyond their home.
Choice A: Muster your forces and urge the Provinces to step up their defenses, sending men and supplies to the Blightborder (Major +Happiness, +Light)
Choice B: If the Borderlanders are willing to hand over some of their weapons technology, you could be convinced to help find troops for the war effort (Free technology, +Shadow)
Choice C: The Borderlanders will fight and die as they always do, we can thrive in peace while they defend us (+Food and +Production in capital, +Culture, +Science, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: The High King should lead from the front. Lead your armies in victory against the Shadowspawn. (Major +Prestige, +Happiness, +Faith, Major +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King

I worry that this is too powerful. I'm all for having some HK-only Threads, but should they necessarily be *better*? It seems like we should be careful providing extra bonuses for being the HK - we might be best off just trying to balance th e"normal" ones, without worrying about Threads.

However, I *do* think it could make sense to have these all be big, but Costed like big ones are supposed to be - only for all of the chocies, instead of one. High payoff, high risk/cost.

Within that, they seem fine. My overall inclination is to mellow it out a bit, though.

S3rgeus said:
Seafaring Progeny
Flavor: One of your children wishes to expand your kingdom by sailing across the sea and claiming a new continent in the name of the High King.
Choice A: Send your child off with a grand ceremony (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: We can certainly build ships, but they are better off defending our waters than sailing off into the unknown (Gain naval units, Minor +Shadow)
Choice C: Send some of your best advisers along too. They will be missed at home, but their departure marks the beginning of a new era for your reign. (-Production in capital, Golden Age Begins, Major +Light)
Restriction: You must be High King, must have a coastal city

Good! Not sure I quite get the Major+Light element for C, though (as opposed to regular Light).

S3rgeus said:
Endless Tides
Flavor: The Trollocs' attacks are taking their toll on your soldiers' faith in the Creator. Rumors of mutiny and desertion abound in your forces.
Choice A: Visit the front lines in person, encouraging your men to stay strong (+Faith, +Light)
Choice B: If enough of them die, a martyr is bound to rise from the ashes. A few "unfortunate" sorties toward the Blight should see to that. (Sacrifice X strength of units, Gain <Great Prophet equivalent>, Major +Shadow)
Choice C: Mutiny and desertion will not be tolerated. Ensure your generals know to keep the men in line or they face the headsman. (Minor +EXP, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars or Last Battle must be currently taking place

I'd eliminate the Creator reference, unless you want it to only apply to Light side in the LB(and if so, should specify such).

Like it, though.
Delayed Harvest
Flavor: Many of your farmers have been conscripted into your armies to fight the Trollocs. There is a serious risk of those who remain being unable to pull in a harvest before winter.
Choice A: Redirect your capital's city guard to help with the harvest (+Food in capital, +Light)
Choice B: Your inventors are excited about a new invention that makes mills more efficient, see if they can't make do with the farmers we have (Minor +Science)
Choice C: We can send more soldiers home to till their fields if we tell the Shadowspawn where more valuable targets lie abroad (+Food in capital, +Shadow)
Restriction: Trolloc Wars or Last Battle must be currently taking place[/quote]
Same comment about the shadow players in LB.

Like it, but on C, probably should say something like "lure the shadowspawn" instead of "telling" them.

S3rgeus said:
Glowbulbs and Fire
Flavor: An artifact from the Age of Legends is rumored to be buried deep in the Blight. It is supposed to hold secrets of an ancient technology for creating light, more efficient than any fire.
Choice A: Mount an expedition into the Blight to find it (Sacrifice X power of units, Free Technology, +Light)
Choice B: Sponsor a fair for your greatest inventors to improve the efficiency of torches instead (+GP points (<Great Scientist Equivalent>))
Choice C: If we tell the Shadow that such power lies within their reach, the Shadowspawn may be less inclined to range out of the Blight while they search (+Faith, Minor +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in Era of Freedom, must be able to see the Blight

great

S3rgeus said:
Across the Sea
Flavor: Rumors abound that there are new riches on unknown continents across the ocean. Various guilds have requested that you allow them to mount an expedition across the sea, offering to construct a fleet of their own to travel.
Choice A: Allow the scholars to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent>))
Choice B: Allow the artists to man the new fleet (+GP points (<Great Artist equivalent>))
Choice C: Allow the devout to man the new fleet (+Faith)
Choice D: This journey is foolish, seize the fleet once it is constructed (Gain naval units, +Shadow)
Restriction: Obsoletes in the Era of New Beginnings, must have a coastal city

I like this one mechanically, but don't quite "get" the flavor. The.... artists... will be the crew of your ships, and we'll get a Great Artist out of it? Maybe I'm not quite getting it. I think we either need to clarify it, or else totally reflavor this. GP points should be about "discovering" great talent or speeding up their generation somehow.

S3rgeus said:
Tree Poachers
Flavor: A representative of the Ogier from <nearby Stedding> has approached your court with news that loggers from your nation have been felling trees in and around their Stedding.
Choice A: This is an outrage! Outlaw the practice at once. (+Influence with <nearby Stedding>, +Light)
Choice B: The lumber they bring back from the Stedding is of highest quality and makes fine furniture (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: Sung Wood stokes forges like no other, the logging will continue with renewed vigor (-Influence with <nearby Stedding>, Major +Production in capital, Major +Shadow)
Choice D: Seize the assets of any loggers who have helped cut down the Sung Wood to make the business unprofitable for them (+Gold, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Must have met a Stedding (on the same continent) that is still alive

-Influence isn't on the list of acceptable penalties, and I think that's a wise move. Making a stedding angry is definitely not going to be a big penalty for a lot of civs. I think this needs to be something more generalizable - -happiness seems right to me. Or minor.

very glad you remembered stedding. I had thought of that and promptly forgotten it. Maybe we should have another? Something like:

Ogier Stonemasons
Flavor: A group of renown Ogier Stonemasons have arrived in your capitol. They offer their services.
Choice A: Honor them with a brief festival and let them freely return to their stedding. (+Culture, Minor +Light)
Choice B: They can be put to work for the highest bidder (+Gold, +Shadow)
Choice C: Start a collaborative project with <stedding>, building a network of acqueducts between your lands (Minor +Influence with <stedding>, +Food, Minor +Light)
Choice D: These Ogier should stay and construct great works, and should be assisted by the learned men of your city (-Science, Gain a <Great Engineer equivalent>)
Restriction: Must have discovered a stedding on the same continent.

The Longing
Flavor: A group of Ogier have lost their stedding, and have arrived at your palace, apparently suffering greatly due to the Longing.
Choice A: These Ogier have much they could teach us about learned pursuits. They must stay and teach your scholars. (Minor +Culture, Minor +Science, +Shadow)
Choice B: They will die if they do not find a stedding. Send your scouts to find their home. (Sacrifice X strength of units, Major +Happiness, +Light)
Choice C: Surely these Ogier can teach your masons of their crafts before they leave. (+Production in Capitol, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: We cannot find their home, but certainly they will be at peace in <stedding> (+Influence with <stedding>, Minor +Light)
Restriction: Obsoletes with Era of Freedom. Must have met a stedding

S3rgeus said:
Cautionary Tale
Flavor: A False Dragon has risen up with an army of Dragonsworn at his back. Your people are afraid and seek guidance.
Choice A: Publicize his atrocities as a warning against any others who would call themselves the Dragon (-FD points, Minor +Light)
Choice B: The Karaethon Cycle should be better understood by your people. Have some of your scholars take time to make a copy available to your people (Minor -Science, Gain GW of Writing, +Light)
Choice C: This man represents a recruitment opportunity - take in any who will fight against him (Gain a military unit, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: He may not be liked, but the man seems relatively lucid. You may be able to convince some people that the Taint is not so bad. (Major +Shadow)
Restriction: A False Dragon you are aware of must be alive. Must have a GW of writing slot available somewhere. Saidin cannot have been cleansed.

This is good, providing we're ok with -FD points being there (which we probably are).

Re: D.... I don't see really how convincing people the Taint isn't so bad is aMajor Shadow action. I'd rather see something like:

Choice D: People who are afraid are people who are easily controlled. Spread tales of the horrors of this False Dragon, and use the resulting chaos as an excuse to crack down on dissidents (Major +Shadow).

S3rgeus said:
Flourishing Inventions
Flavor: Scholars in <city> are flourishing, inventing new devices and furthering the cause of your nation.
Choice A: That's great (+GP points (<Great Scientist equivalent>), Minor +Light)
Choice B: I have need of some new weapons and they seem well suited to make them (+Science, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Scientist equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the arts also receive emphasis there (+Culture, +Light)
Restriction: must have more than one city

Good.

Question about these GP point bonus ones. They need to apply to cities capable of generating points for that GP, right? If not, those GP points will sit there, never turning into an actual GP How do we determine which cities get the GP points?

S3rgeus said:
Flourishing Arts
Flavor: All forms of the arts are flourishing in <city>, creating new forms of expression and pushing the bounds of artistic knowledge.
Choice A: That's great (Minor +GP points to all three 'Culture' GP types, Minor +Light)
Choice B: You must commission them for work based on yourself, and only yourself, occupying them for some months in the process (+Culture, +Shadow)
Choice C: <city> should not be alone in flourishing, poach some of their top talent for your own purposes (-1 Pop in <city>, <Great Writer equivalent> appears near capital, +Shadow)
Choice D: <city> is clearly well suited to peaceful expression, see that the sciences also receive emphasis there (+Science, +Light)

ok. looks fine. should there be a version for Great Musicians?

S3rgeus said:
Talented Artisan
Flavor: A talented artisan has gained fame for his skill with architecture, having built several well known buildings in your capital.
Choice A: He could be convinced to work exclusively for the crown (-1 Pop in capital, Gain <Great Engineer equivalent>, Minor +Light)
Choice B: His work is much admired and should be allowed to continue (+Production in capital, +Light)
Choice C: There are more mundane things that he could be "convinced" to design for the city (Gain <building> in capital, Minor +Shadow)
Choice D: Close his existing structures off from the public and charge entry for people to view them (+Gold, +Shadow)

I don't quite get why - Pop in Capital makes sense for the flavor of A. Otherwise, looks good.

S3rgeus said:
I'll stop there for now! I've still left out Fear vs Tolerance and Authority, Oppression, and Liberation numbers (I imagine we need some for each) restrictions.

Cool. I'm out of time for tonight, so no new ones from me.

S3rgeus's Wheel of Time Mod

King

King

Emperor

Emperor

King

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

King

King

King

King

Emperor

Emperor

King

King

Emperor

King

Emperor

King

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