G-Major 137

Tbh honest, Pangaea, but I find that start very medicore, if not even bad. Ok, it has 5 or 6 gems, yes, but in the beginning, you can't work those anyhow, you can work both Foods and a maximum of 3 Gems, compare that with a start having 2 Golds, a Corn and 2 Floodplains.

Militarically, you did very well in your initial game, but I believe that you overfocus the economy now. Your biggest aim should still be, to get as many cities as possible. You need to get up infrastructure simultaniously though, so don't ask yourself if you can build a Granary, build it for heaven's sake, Granaries double your food! But don't build early Libraries or Barracks, those are really :hammers: one doesn't have when doing an extreme Immortal rush. And saving Trees for Mids and HGs, fine, but for that, you need enough Workers, 4 at least for that city only. Did you steal enough Workers? In the beginning, I stole from 2 Civs, and I always had more Workers than cities, because of my fancy WM2 Warrior / Axe.

Begging for something and then wanting to go to war with someone happens to me all the time. I double check if I really want to beg something because of that.

For me it still seems, as if you were sticking too hard to a single game. Play out a few more starts, you'll notice, that once you know what to do, you'll get really fast, and then you get that game in which you capture 12 cities 'til 150 BC because nobody has hills-cities and all are busy building infrastructure and not defenders. Then you start to be careful, but this game, sry if I'm honest, you can throw away already again, it's just too medicore.
 
yyeah said:
I dont know how to add file here :). C.eck it, notice that iam not running GA ( that was huge mistake). I **** 1 Univeristy ;/ and have to deley Oxford but date was similar to yours.

http://sendfile.pl/pokaz/407356---aTHn.html

Iam from Poland.
No i didnt check ealier Gunlets so dont rly know results.
And iam assuming that you beat becouse i saw how your game is going, 5k BPT with Electricity is huge, and you probably grow at least ~200 Bpt/turn... just tahts how your game is going it is definetly possible to lunch ~550AD maybe faster.
And 1 more thing :) i dont know is this a reason, just assuming, but not saying date is suspissious :). Offcourse we helping each other with game, commentating etc. etc. becouse this is interesting and fun. But at the end this is competition so its harder to beat date if you dont know date :) its a bit mindgame ,but its good, its good for competition now everyone will try 2 times harder to squezze 1 turn becouse 1 turn can be crucial :)
Click to expand...

I ment make screenshots (with print-screen) in 1280x1024, and then post them here in the thread. We got many viewers, maybe others will join this comparison too, then it gets even more interesting. It's like when I proposed, that everybody should freely post a screenshot of T150 and T200 and 1 AD.

You can attach those screenshots using the forum-function. People love screenshots, let's give them what they want :) .

Your estimation of my game btw. honors me, 200 BPT more / turn, that's twice the estimation WastinTime told me, when we spoke about Corporations or not. Also you seem to forget, that Kaitzilla had more BPT in every single comparison, I was only the one who could compete because he had so nice Vassals ;) .
 
And NobleZarkon, shulec or Lymond, please be so kind and check my game, so that I can post those screenshots without any bad feeling :gripe: :D .
 
Nice, game got accepted, thx shulec! :)

Posting screens from 1500 BC and 1 AD soon.
 
Seraiel said:
Tbh honest, Pangaea, but I find that start very medicore, if not even bad. Ok, it has 5 or 6 gems, yes, but in the beginning, you can't work those anyhow, you can work both Foods and a maximum of 3 Gems, compare that with a start having 2 Golds, a Corn and 2 Floodplains.

Militarically, you did very well in your initial game, but I believe that you overfocus the economy now. Your biggest aim should still be, to get as many cities as possible. You need to get up infrastructure simultaniously though, so don't ask yourself if you can build a Granary, build it for heaven's sake, Granaries double your food! But don't build early Libraries or Barracks, those are really :hammers: one doesn't have when doing an extreme Immortal rush. And saving Trees for Mids and HGs, fine, but for that, you need enough Workers, 4 at least for that city only. Did you steal enough Workers? In the beginning, I stole from 2 Civs, and I always had more Workers than cities, because of my fancy WM2 Warrior / Axe.

Begging for something and then wanting to go to war with someone happens to me all the time. I double check if I really want to beg something because of that.

For me it still seems, as if you were sticking too hard to a single game. Play out a few more starts, you'll notice, that once you know what to do, you'll get really fast, and then you get that game in which you capture 12 cities 'til 150 BC because nobody has hills-cities and all are busy building infrastructure and not defenders. Then you start to be careful, but this game, sry if I'm honest, you can throw away already again, it's just too medicore.
Click to expand...

This looks a bit harsh, a start with 6 gems (okay four where I settled) and 3rd ring horse is pretty darn sweet. You are of course correct that some others things have not gone swimmingly. AIs a bit far away, a fair few hill cities (not attacked any yet, mind), lots of metals (good for Mining, but that's far off), and a bit too much jungle nearby. GLH went a bit far away too. Not impossible to get, but it won't be soon.

Don't want to give up this game just yet, if I continue this at least there is a chance I can get it submitted before the deadline, but right now things aren't going great on the warfront, and without good success there the game will fall farther and farther behind.

Congrats with the acceptance of the game. I greatly look forward to seeing more screens. From some recent posts it sounds like you didn't beat Kaitzilla, but it's just speculation for now. We want to know for sure, and how you did it :)
 
Ok so this is 900BC.

Spoiler :

World
1png_wahwrea.png


Capitol i whipped Oxford( i think it was 960BC) dont know was it worth it ;/.
12png_wahwrwh.png


I didnt saw such a great city as i play civ 4 this city is insane. Here i was runninng Great Prophets
123png_wahwrwe.png


Some more importand cities.
1234png_wahwrwq.png


I run GS here allmoust all time and build Kremlin for GS in 5 GP GA
12345png_wahwrsp.png


123456png_wahwrsh.png


Future ND and Taj city to increese GA.
lazypng_wahwrse.png


Mids and HGs :D but it **** 2nd GE by 1 turn and i couldt use him for SoL.
winpng_wahwrsw.png


tech race
12345678p_wahwrsr.png


tech tree
1234567pn_wahwrsx.png


Traded Lit and Music for Machinery in 2 turns then PP.

And from here i made first big mistake i didnt run GA from GA and this was rly good time for GA i had money war was near to end and i wanted to move troops for DeG.
Decided to wait becouse i wanted to have it later on when my cities will be fully developed.
Now target was to keep up with tech and get more cities, and grow my cities so when i start GA i can run bunch of guys.
I deleyed this GA allso becouse i wanted to start it when i will be buliding Taj.
But lack of trade without vassals is a game changing thing.

Another reason why i falled behind is taht Rosi and Huayna backstabbed me when i declared on DeG, right befor i wanted to start 1st GA and i had to whip my cities witch i grow very carefully,i whip even capitol ;/, i had to upgrade troops becouse Rosi had hes stack on my borders and i lost lots of TR.


 
Seraiel's empire at 1500 BC:​


Spoiler :



Capital, not working both Golds because of research-stop before getting a GS for an Academy. Also, because I was afraid of Kaitzilla's megacapital, which was size 12 at that time iirc.



This is all territory that initially should have belonged to my capital, but I moved 2 turns with the Settler to settle on a Plains Hill, it's just too much of a difference. This left this nice spot with a riverside connection for the 2nd city.
I believe I only build 2 Libraries early, to create 2 GSs. You also see, that I whipped that city harshly, it's not working both of it's Cottages and is far away from Happy-cap. I saw no other way to keep the war going in the tempo that WastinTime said we should have.



Very strong city I captured early, has overlap with the capital and is currently working the capital's Horses, and why that city got a Courthouse, is a mystery to me.



This was the capital of my first target, perfect city to work as a GP-Farm with tripple food, generally one if not the strongest city apart from my capital over the whole round.



I'm amazed that this city already got a Library. I wouldn't have thought that I had that many resources. Working the Plains Cottage for the extra Hammer and not whipped harshly, because it doesn't have enough food to regrow imo.



City from my 2nd target. Those Farms already existed, and should make this city to a high production centre over the whole round, because I didn't find time to replace them until very late. I usually don't try to terraform the territory I conquer, but work with it as I get it.
You see that the city got whipped extremely harsh, 100 turns of anger, and no pop left for the Cottages and the Whine. Will regrow on the Whine next turn though.



I hope the Lighthouse already was in this city when I conquered it. Very nice also to have Gold, Gems and Silver so early. City is quite far away from my capital, therefore the early Courthouse, and also, because (I think) bcool advised early Courthouses.



This city I used mainly for overlap-reasons with the Pigs-city you saw.



Peter's capital. A lot food and already specialized to be the 3rd GP-Farm, also has the Hanging Gardens which I chopped out, I remember that my cities overall had really a lot Forests, which is probably how I got so much military and still could build Infrastructure.
I used every city that had much food as a GP-Farm, because there are no too many GSs in Spaceraces.



Conquered from my 3rd target De Gaulle, so Copper and Iron too. I'm currently questioning my skills, because that city got a Library and a Lighthouse. Lighthouse was probably from before as most cities I conquered didn't lose their buildings. Still not working 1 bad tile over all cities btw.!



DGs capital with neighbouring city from him. I used DG to bribe civs against him, to get +4 for shared war with them. I did the same with Brennus, and payed attention, so that the AIs didn't get too friendly too each other because of shared war, so I i. e. bribed civ 1 against DG for 40, then bribed for peace and bribed the next AI again for 40T.
Awesome city btw., had tripple Corn of which 2 were shared with other cities. In the end, it even produced an Engine.



First city working an unimproved tile, basically, because it doesn't matter, a Grassland Cottage would be no better than the Grassland Forest. Food-poor city with many Forests, so I took it to chop out the MoM.



This is my only city that has the ocean towards the right direction. All those Libraries must have been, because I already prepared for Oxford. This is a production-strong city, so it could get out a University fast.



One of the super few cities that I settled myself, had at least 3 Furs + Fishes, so was really strong in Commerce. This city even got a Bank for WS later. I built the Lighthouse first, because I wanted the city to work at least 1 good tile, having a Granary while working a 1-food Coast wouldn't have been great.



Also from DG, city is not function yet so has no Food, because I still was abusing DG for diplomatic bonuses as written. Needed the Axeman for self-defense as it was directly at the border.



Another Horses city. Didn't play an important role until the SS-parts, because then, it was Hammerstrong, at that time, without real Food, it was a weak city.



Self settled again, has wet Corn and 2 Lighthouse lakes, so good as a GP-Farm.



Far away Egyptian city that has the Mids. Conquering it was super-expensive, but the Mids are priceless. City got the Kremlin later, to reasons that are hard for me to understand myself, but at some time, this city simply was fully specialized on Hammers.



18 cities, and as you can see, even with producing all those troops and Infrastructure, most cities got good sizes of 4-6. This was just because the territory I conquered was really good and really Forest- and Food-rich. You can also see my good diplomatic relations. I later had 6 or 7 civs on friendly, which helped a lot, also by peace-vassaling.



No Paper yet because of too little money (could have researched with 250 BPT at -150 GPT, but that was still without an Academy and Buro, so 3T later, it was much better) , and the 2nd GS for Education is late, this is one of the few really bad things that happened in my game. I think I could make up a little for it by bulbing PP later though.



Generally, the AIs are all and I could choose my trades freely.



Pericles was so nice and spread his Religion to almost all of my cities. I always hoped that he'd get a Great Prophet for a Shrine, but he ofc only got him when he was my peace-vassal already ^^ .


So really strong city-sites, and simply a lot of things going the right way (Religion, neighbours, Wonders) . Now in hind-sight, I would have wished me a little larger cities, because I'm not making any use of my extremely high happy-cap, except in the capital ofc.
I'm proud to see that I didn't work any bad tiles, and remembering the number of Forests is something you cannot see on the screens, but almost every city had a Forest on every tile that was not improved ^^ .
 
Why are you posting 900 BC when we said 1500 BC and 1 AD? How are we supposed to compare the games, when they are not compareable at all!

Please look at how I did it, and do it for 1500 BC and 1 AD if you still got the time today. Otherwise, tomorrow.
 
Seraiel said:
Why are you posting 900 BC when we said 1500 BC and 1 AD? How are we supposed to compare the games, when they are not compareable at all!

Please look at how I did it, and do it for 1500 BC and 1 AD if you still got the time today. Otherwise, tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Becouse i was saying taht i was close maybe even ahead of you ~1000 BC.
 
Ok, I'm stupid, thought instinctly 1500 BC because that was the savegame Kai and me uploaded as 2nd. Will bring 900 BC update soon.
 
Seraiel's empire @ 900 BC​


Spoiler :



30+ cities, plz notice the 3 Peace-Vassals Frederick, Victoria and Pericles! Victoria and Pericles turned out to be really good researchers, Frederick only got good too late.
Cities are building Forges or Failgold. You can see that I heavily piled up Gold, because "there's never enough" ;) . I research Philosphy with 30% to trade it from Pericles next turn. On 100%, the empire is making 650 BPT.



Capital, has Oxford and some other buildings I used to whip into Oxford, again not working both Golds because it needed to grow after all that whipping. Here you can see how 2 Golds can also be a disadvantage when not having a plethora of food.



One of the University cities, 190T of whipping anger and not even working all good tiles, Oxford needs sacrifices.



Running Engineers over all cities, because I didn't have the HGs and the Mids in the same city, so I went for multiple small chances during the next GA, which isn't far away iirc.









National Epic operational ofc., I already won the Music race before Education, you could see the GA and the saved GS on the 2nd screen (the one with the capital) .



20% of the map conquered.


So I mostly chopped the map completely clear for heavy Infrastructure (almost all cities got Libraries and Courthouses + Universities in 7 cities + Oxford and the NE.
The 3 peace-vassals so early ofc. are a great advantage, though they were really crappy in research in the beginning, and I really would have liked to have that Shrine from Pericles, but it just didn't want to happen. I later got the Buddhist holy city from Asoka and founded a Shrine with a GP I created myself, so high investment but worth it, the shrine produced about 10-12k of Gold during the round.
Also good to see, how I sacrificed some AIs in diplomacy for getting others to friendly. The ones that were annoyed or worse I mostly conquered soon.
 
@ yyeah:

What I notice instantly, is, that you need to take back your statement that "your empire was almost on par, or even better" . You may have got Oxford and as many cities as me, but my cities are better developed (Courthouses in every cities) and the 3 peace-vassals make the difference.
You got a Shrine, that's also a big difference, but I got enough money so that it doesn't matter. I see your AIs sometimes have up to 500 :gold: , you should have traded for that!
And: You didn't have the NE yet, I did, which is another major difference.

The only thing you're really better, is that you got 200 more BPT, which is really impressive though, and I don't have an idea yet why you got so much more than me. :goodjob:
 
On the 1500 BC screen I see, that you're not using the advantage of having friendly AIs, that are willing to trade everything, including monopolies.
 
Also, the AIs backstabbing you was forseeable, with you being the worst enemy of multiple top AIs (900 BC screen) .

This could i. e. never have happened to me, because everybody loves me, except Brennus, who is on the other side of the map and cannot reach me. I guess diplomacy could be the area where you could advance your play the most.
 
And, iirc., you wrote that you bulbed Education. Then there is another major difference, because I still have my 2nd GS and will bulb Printing Press.
 
You got the GLH, that's why you have so much more BPT.

You also got some crazy good food-sites in your game there :) .

And you should never directly whip Oxford, because you're paying a huge penalty if whipping Wonders. Better prepare some buildings to whip into Oxford with max. OF.
 
No i didnt bulb edu.
And yes diplo was terrible + no vassals ;/
Mainly becouse i had Juadism allmoust everywhere and i wanted to sw in org rel in 1 turn early.
I payed high price for this.

Yea you right now i see, taht you allso catapult yourself becouse of vassals when i was backstabbed and i was lacking trades so much, you could use your vassals at least to reach sushi and mining so much faster.

Well need to focus more on diplo.
 
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