Black lives matter!

Gary Childress said:

What is your definition of "left" and where are you getting the 20% from?

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My definition of "left" in this case is anybody who identifies as being a liberal. And it is currently slightly more than 20% of the American population.

Gary Childress said:

Siding with one's "own" need not mean along racial lines. It can be along national or even regional lines. If it's not siding with our "own" then why do many in the West seem to side with terrorizing Muslims? Is it buying into propaganda, then?

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[sigh] You took my analogy waaaay too literally. I was just using that as an example to illustrate how it is downright stupid to support an extremist organization simply because they are similar to you in some ways.

To go back to my white supremacist analogy: I am white, and white supremacists claim to work for the advancement of white people, so I should support them right? Wrong. I would only support them if I were an extremist since their whole ideology is absolutely abhorrent. The same should apply to any non-extremist Muslim, and it does. Those Muslims that completely reject Al Qaida do so because they do not believe in their abhorrent interpretation of Islam. Those that do not completely reject Al Qaida are extremists, although they may not have gone so far down the path of extremism as to actually join the organization.

Formaldehyde --> I enjoy how you make facts up or ignore facts to fit your narrative.

Colonel, I enjoy how you make statements without providing any corroboration of what you even mean.

But go right ahead. Show me where I "made up" or even "ignored" a fact.

Formaldehyde said:

Colonel, I enjoy how you make statements without providing any corroboration of what you even mean.

But go right ahead. Show me where I "made up" or even "ignored" a fact.

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Well your map proved my statement correct for the most part. Minus the fact that it wasn't a fully detailed map. Chambers, going to hereford was looted down to airport road. West florissant was destroyed. South florissant was looted. I'm from around there, I was there after it was destroyed, you don't get much better on evidence beyond eye witness accounts. But alas go on believe what your leftist media is telling you. Not the numerous eye witness accounts from those actually there.

Colonel said:

Well your map proved my statement correct for the most part. Minus the fact that it wasn't a fully detailed map. Chambers, going to hereford was looted down to airport road. West florissant was destroyed. South florissant was looted. I'm from around there, I was there after it was destroyed, you don't get much better on evidence beyond eye witness accounts. But alas go on believe what your leftist media is telling you. Not the numerous eye witness accounts from those actually there.

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When Formy sees something in an internet video he assumes that that gives him far greater expertise on the subject than any other person could possibly have. Get used to it.

Formaldehyde said:

Colonel, I enjoy how you make statements without providing any corroboration of what you even mean.

But go right ahead. Show me where I "made up" or even "ignored" a fact.

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Second the point, I'm not arguing with you about the message at this point. I'm simply stating that the level of destruction I described is accurate to how the area looked following the second set of riots in late November.

Only it isn't "accurate" at all. Six miles of the city were" NOT "utterly destroyed". "Building after building was" NOT "burned to the ground". Apparently, only 9 stores were looted in total and only a few of those were burned to the ground. Furthermore, they were along Florrisant Avenue which isn't "greater St Louis" at all. It is Ferguson or in close proximity to it.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

And Formy KNOWS! He saw it on the interwebz!

Timsup2nothin said:

And Formy KNOWS! He saw it on the interwebz!

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You forgot to quote your own sig

Also... Not to take Formy's side... However, I must point out that "eyewitness accounts" are some of the least reliable forms of evidence available... despite being one of the most highly valued forms of evidence in our justice system.

I actually borrowed that from Neil DeGrasse Tyson... credit where credit is due... but I do agree with his statement.

Sommerswerd said:

You forgot to quote your own sig

Also... Not to take Formy's side... However, I must point out that "eyewitness accounts" are some of the least reliable forms of evidence available... despite being one of the most highly valued forms of evidence in our justice system.

I actually borrowed that from Neil DeGrasse Tyson... credit where credit is due... but I do agree with his statement.

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While eyewitness accounts may not be totally reliable from up close they are absolutely worthless from a thousand miles away.

Timsup2nothin said:

While eyewitness accounts may not be totally reliable from up close they are absolutely worthless from a thousand miles away.

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In one lecture he went on to say (after making the point about eyewitness testimony), that photographs aren't that great either what with photoshop etc available nowadays.

I heard today the first of what I expect to be a very long list of liberal hypocrisy this election season. In this particular case, it was some leftist calling Carson an oreo.

Along those same lines, I was reading a left-leaning magazine today, and despite multiple articles on the Republican candidates and the debate the other week, it neglected to mention Carson even once.

It merely confirms my suspicion that given a long enough timeline, liberals will always show flashes of their inner racist, bigoted, sexist selves. Reminds me a little of that South Park episode about hybrid cars.

Senethro said:

Yo, if you think there is no racism at work here then could you indicate the point in time at which racism stopped?

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There's more racism in the primary education system than in local police forces. The status quo enforced on the black community by white-dominated labor unions is the real tragedy.

So you are claiming that teachers unions are actually racist? That it is a far more serious institutional racism problem than black parents feeling they have to teach their kids to watch their every move and statement around cops, just so they don't become the next "accident" or get a criminal record that ruins their life?

Formaldehyde said:

So you are claiming that teachers' unions are actually racist? That it is a far more serious institutional racism problem than many blacks feeling they have to teach their kids to watch their every move and statement around cops so they don't become the next "accident"?

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Surely you have seen a video comparing these very issues and are the source of expertise we have all been waiting for, yes?

In my opinion there is just as much systemic racism in education as there is in criminal justice, and it probably does have broader though less individually catastrophic effect. The failures of the educational system, while not outright fatal, are going to impact pretty much every kid.

But life has no meaning or value. No ones lives matter.

Funky said:

Vast numbers of Muslims around the globe don't condemn terror, they actually support it quite openly. In many countries we are talking about majorities.

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illram said:

Not true. Unless you want to nitpick about what "vast numbers" means.

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83 percent of Palestinians and 62 percent of Jordanians approve of attacks on Americans. 89 percent of Palestinians approve of terror attacks on Israel.
45 percent of Nigerians and 43 percent of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah.
49 percent of the Egyptians and Nigerians, and 39 percent of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas.
51 percent of Pakistanis grieve for Osama bin Laden.
49 percent polled in 2006 on Al-Jazeera had a favourable view of Al Qaeda.
81 percent polled in 2015 on Al-Jazeera had a favourable view on ISIS.
92 percent of Saudis belive ISIS conforms to the values of Islam.
In the West, 35 percent of the Muslims in Britain, 42 percent in France, 22 in Germany and 29 in Spain think suicide bombing is justified. 80 percent of young Dutch Muslims are in favour of Holy War against unbelievers.
ReligionofPeace

I could go on. Keep in mind that even in countries that didn't make it into this small selection where "only" 20 or 30 percent of the people support terror, we are still talking about tens of millions of people. Those are vast numbers for me.

illram said:

But it's a mistake to think this is a 100% insular problem with zero influence stemming from the outside.

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Hardly any problem is 100% insular. But denying that the doctrine of Jihad is and has always been an integral part of Islam is to ignore Islamic scripture as well as most parts of Islamic history. And the reason most terror attacks are directed at other Muslims has to do entirely with competing religious views and different interpretations of the holy texts.

Funky said:

83 percent of Palestinians and 62 percent of Jordanians approve of attacks on Americans...

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I take it you didn't actually look at the underlying data for this clear cherry picking and outright subterfuge of the facts by this wacky website.

As you can clearly see, "vast numbers" do not "support terrorism". They actually feel just the opposite in regard to attacking civilians. But they do agree with the al Qaida that US servicemen do not belong in the Middle East. That those American troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan to subjugate Muslims in their own countries are considered to be fair game by many Muslims in other countries.

Furthermore, they think we are trying to expand Israel, control their oil, extremely disapprove of the American government, and think that the US is disrespectful towards Islam (many even think we are intentionally trying to humiliate them) while attempting to spread Christianity in their countries:

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Attacks on civilians in the US (approve/mixed feelings/disapprove):

Egypt: 8/2/84
Indonesia: 5/8/73
Pakistan: 9/15/55
Morocco: 7/8/78
Palestine: 24/15/59
Jordan: 11/12/68
Turkey: 8/10/74
Azerbaijan: 4/10/81

View of al-Qaida: (support attacks on Americans/oppose attacks but share attitudes/oppose do not share/don't know):

Egypt: 21/22/28/18
Indonesia: 9/19/22/51
Pakistan: 16/15/22/47
Morocco: 8/31/26/35

Al Qaida goal: Get US to withdraw forces from Islamic Countries. (Percent who agree):

Egypt 87%
Indonesia 65%
Pakistan 62%
Morocco 72%

US Naval Bases in Persian Gulf (Percent who agree):

Egypt: 1%
Indonesia: 5%
Pakistan: 1%
Palestine: 4%
Turkey: 6%
Jordan: 11%

Effect of Withdrawl from Iraq: Would al Qaida attacks increase/stay the same/decrease?

Egypt: 5/14/78
Indonesia: 2/10/37
Palestine: 14/34/46
Jordan: 13/19/46
Turkey: 11/20/43
Azerbaijan: 8/36/46

Attacks on US troops in Iraq :

Egypt: 83/1/10
Indonesia: 26/15/42
Pakistan: 26/22/32
Morocco: 68/11/14
Palestine: 90/4/5
Jordan: 72/7/12
Turkey: 40/12/39
Azerbaijan: 9/11/76

Attacks on US troops in Afghanstan:
Egypt: 83/1/8
Indonesia: 22/17/42
Pakistan: 29/18/32
Morocco: 61/14/17

US Goal: Weaken and divide Islam?

Egypt: 87/3
Indonesia: 62/13
Pakistan: 74/9
Morocco: 78/11
Palestine: 87/11
Jordan: 80/12
Turkey: 82/9
Azerbaijan: 65/20

US Goal: Spread Christianity?

Indonesia: 52/24
Pakistan: 71/11
Morocco: 67/22
Palestine: 88/11
Jordan: 71/17
Turkey: 79/11
Azerbaijan: 60/11

US Goal: Maintain control over oil?

Egypt: 88/3
Indonesia: 67/12
Pakistan: 62/8
Morocco:82/10
Palestine: 89/10
Jordan: 87/3
Azerbaijan: 90/5

US Goal: Expanding Israeli Borders?

Egypt: 86/5
Indonesia: 47/22
Pakistan: 52/6
Morocco: 64/23
Palestine: 90/9
Jordan: 84/6
Turkey: 78/8
Azerbaijan: 43/42

US Goal: Creation of a Palestinian state?

Egypt: 4/87
Indonesia: 24/48
Pakistan: 36/22
Morocco: 23/64
Palestine: 59/37
Jordan: 28/63
Turkey: 33/52
Azerbaijan: 7/79

Views of Current US Government:

Egypt: 4/89
Indonesia: 18/64
Pakistan: 17/56
Morocco: 16/76
Iran: 8/85

US Relations with Muslim World (respectful/disrespectful/tries to humiliate):

Egypt: 11/24/56
Indonesia: 8/39/30
Pakistan: 6/22/52
Nigerian Muslims: 23/41/28
Palestine: 20/28/49
Jordan: 16/34/39
Turkey:8/40/43
Azerbaijan: 12/47/37
Iran: 5/21/64

Funky said:

Hardly any problem is 100% insular. But denying that the doctrine of Jihad is and has always been an integral part of Islam is to ignore Islamic scripture as well as most parts of Islamic history. And the reason most terror attacks are directed at other Muslims has to do entirely with competing religious views and different interpretations of the holy texts.

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You mean according to most any Islamophobic "scholar" like Geert Wilders?

The current "doctrine" of Islam is peaceful, especially towards civilians. What do you think the "doctrine" of the Old Testament is?

That was a good counter-point.

Funky said:

ReligionofPeace

I could go on.

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But since you are using a source that has absolutely no credibility there wouldn't be much of a point, would there?