SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR

LowtherCastle said:
It has plot culture but not city culture. The spread culture mission gives 5% of the total existing city culture, so that's a minimum of 20:culture: (ours and his combined) just to spread 1:culture:. :banana: Does not have to include any of our city culture though. (tested)
Click to expand...
Even better: A spread culture mission will always yield at least 1 :culture:. :cool: We only need to run 1 mission to get the 50% EP discount (until Darius generates culture of his own). No monument or lucky religion spread needed.

Proof:
CvPlayer.cpp said:
// Insert Culture into City
if (NULL != pPlot && pPlot->getCulture(getID()) > 0)
{
int iCultureAmount = kMission.getCityInsertCultureAmountFactor() * pCity->countTotalCultureTimes100();
iCultureAmount /= 10000;
iCultureAmount = std::max(1, iCultureAmount);
iMissionCost = iBaseMissionCost + (kMission.getCityInsertCultureCostFactor() * iCultureAmount) / 100;
}
Click to expand...
 
Pollina said:
Even better: A spread culture mission will always yield at least 1 :culture:. :cool: We only need to run 1 mission to get the 50% EP discount (until Darius generates culture of his own). No monument or lucky religion spread needed.

Proof:
Click to expand...
Maybe I need to do more testing. I wasn't able to get the culture mission to appear without 20:culture: in the city. Maybe the ep discount was too high.

Edit: Yes, that was it. Starting with zero culture, we can put 1:culture: in. That gives us the 50% and we no longer can. Too cheap. :) Okay, now I see what happening. With a 20% spy discount, we can run the mission, with 30%, we can't, in my test, which includes the 20% OBs discount. Of course, my test might not have the Espionage Point Spending exact, but I don't think that's enough to matter.

I also doubt that Darius won't have completed a monument yet. We'll see how soon he settles City #3.

.
 
Tested. Screenshot from 1t after Antium was founded and gifted to Darius:

Spoiler :
IeSH8fg.jpg


Are you sure your test gift city was within Rome's borders?

Edit: It appears you are right. The spread culture mission only shows up when you don't have too many modifiers. :confused: In my test, I couldn't run a second mission after I got the -50% mod from the first one. Same when I have the religion modifier. Odd.
 
Pollina said:
Tested. Screenshot from 1t after Antium was founded and gifted to Darius:

Spoiler :
IeSH8fg.jpg


Are you sure your test gift city was within Rome's borders?

Edit: It appears you are right. The spread culture mission only shows up when you don't have too many modifiers. :confused: In my test, I couldn't run a second mission after I got the -50% mod from the first one. Same when I have the religion modifier. Odd.
Click to expand...
When our modifier gets down to .33, then it's 3eps*.33=.99, which truncates to 0. The code won't let us get culture for free. Makes sense to me. I seem to remember someone talking about this a long time ago.
Code: 
obXdistXspendXspy
.8*1.05*.53*.8=.35
.8*1.05*.53*.7=.31
Then if we're lucky
Code: 
obXdistXspendXspyXcult
.8*1.05*.53*.5*.5=.11
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
 
We can run as many spread culture missions as we like, if we do it before the EP bomb. Unfortunately, that would reduce our success odds from ~97% to ~85%.
 
3S1W MM

With our worker only roading Rome-2S for TRs, we have the option of mining the HC plains hill after farming the corn, then roading to 3S1W and farming. This delays Darius TRs from T62 to T67 (but not our own, if we still have the city) and delays pop8 from T83 to T85.

In exchange, on T69 HC at pop3 can produce +4hpt on a settler and units and we postpone the need for wkr2. Probably worth it.
 
Ok, I can accurately predict whether or not we can run a spread culture mission with my espionage cost spreadsheet (including all truncation weirdness). We shouldn't run into any issues there.
 

Attachments

One comment on spy success odds:

We are restricted to 1 mission every 2 turns, if we want to optimize success odds. The problem is that when a spy was moved the turn before the mission, he will have the same odds as if there are other spies in the city. That's a drop from ~96% to 77% for stealing techs (after EP bomb).
 
LowtherCastle said:
3S1W MM

With our worker only roading Rome-2S for TRs, we have the option of mining the HC plains hill after farming the corn, then roading to 3S1W and farming. This delays Darius TRs from T62 to T67 (but not our own, if we still have the city) and delays pop8 from T83 to T85.

In exchange, on T69 HC at pop3 can produce +4hpt on a settler and units and we postpone the need for wkr2. Probably worth it.
Click to expand...

Net benefit from mining the hill is +1 hammer, as we could always work the forested PH (or the grass hill) at pop3. Not sure if that would be worth the delay of city #4.
 
Pollina said:
One comment on spy success odds:

We are restricted to 1 mission every 2 turns, if we want to optimize success odds. The problem is that when a spy was moved the turn before the mission, he will have the same odds as if there are other spies in the city. That's a drop from ~96% to 77% for stealing techs (after EP bomb).
Click to expand...
With a galley and 4 spies, we can do it every turn. We've used a galley like this before. Guaranteed.

We might need a galley to protect our fish nets anyway, because we can't protect them with lots of city culture. ANother aspect of this scenario.
LowtherCastle said:
3. We can get 1 tech per turn at 99% odds by galley-unloading a spy with mvmt points after conducting the current tech stealing mission. For this we would need 4 spies and 1 galley.

T1: Spy1 steals tech, teleports to Rome, Spy2 unloads from galley, Spy3 loads into galley, Spy 4 moves from Rome 2 tiles.
T2: Spy2 steals tech, teleports to Rome, Spy3 unloads from galley, Spy4 loads into galley, Spy 1 moves from Rome 2 tiles.
Click to expand...

Pollina said:
Net benefit from mining the hill is +1 hammer, as we could always work the forested PH (or the grass hill) at pop3. Not sure if that would be worth the delay of city #4.
Click to expand...
Good point. Earlier 2cpt in capital might make a turn difference in Alpha.
 
I agree with everything: wb to fish, explore east w/chariot, settle 3S1W, skip the PHmine for now. I should be able to post a final PPP soon and play tonight. This should end my turnset.
 
PPP T47 - ??

Research Writing, Alpha
use binary research.

1 Warrior goes 7 tiles NE-ish to defog cows and returns.
2 Warriors go West to get XP.

Rome (needs to do some turns on grass per LC's MM --essentially when building military)
granary
1t pSettler
chariot
settler
warrior
warrior

HC
workboat (til it completes) goto fish.
work corn when it's ready.
chariot (explore east)
 
WastinTime said:
PPP T47 - ??

Research Writing, Alpha
use binary research.

1 Warrior goes 7 tiles NE-ish to defog cows and returns.
2 Warriors go West to get XP.

Rome (needs to do some turns on grass per LC's MM --essentially when building military)
granary
1t pSettler
chariot
settler
warrior
warrior

HC
workboat (til it completes) goto fish.
work corn when it's ready.
chariot (explore east)
Click to expand...
Looks fine. I wouldn't overdo it on the warrior exploration. I'd almost rather see a pair go NE to make sure they get back in time. And I'd even skip the 70%-attack XP for the warrior. Don't particularly want to lose the warrior and delay settling. Up to you. We settle on T62 and in 15t Darius could easily settle 2 more cities.

Green light!
 
By the way, if Darius settles CIty #3 quickly, I think the earliest we can settle 3S1W is T60. Means skipping the exploring chariot and growing really fast while building the two warriors.
 
Pollina said:
Net benefit from mining the hill is +1 hammer, as we could always work the forested PH (or the grass hill) at pop3. Not sure if that would be worth the delay of city #4.
Click to expand...
Actually, it's 2hpt for a settler and that adds up to 2 full turns on 2 settlers.

15t*14hpt=210h
13t*16hpt=208h

If we're at all interested in building the gems settler to settle/gift the same turn as COws, then it's relevant. Looking more carefully, those 2t also add the 2nd chariot necessary for defender #8.
 
I'm gonna go with just a screenshot before we settle for documentation.
That should be enough. I don't wanna upload b4 and after. Tedious and it lets everyone know we settled.
 
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