The Hall of Players

Pangaea said:

Small point: Took a look at this article, which I hope is still correct. War elephants cost 60h and provide 8000 "soldiers", while maces cost 70h and provide 9000 soldiers. Makes more sense to mass produce WEs then, especially if I go on the rampage later with Cuirs.

Not a big difference, but every small bit, right? If it helps get him to vassal :shrug:

Click to expand...

Hm?

I always thought CIV just multiplies several things by 1000. STR8 = 8000 soldiers, STR3 Archer = 3000 Soldiers, Size 1 city = 1000 population, size 2 city = 2000^2 population, size 3 city = 3000^3 population etc.

OMG. Sometimes the timing is immaculate

When I got eps on Joao so I could see his strength and research, I was a little short, but got up over 1.50 when whipping began. On the same turn I got over, up to 1.55, there was a revolt in a city, and Joao was still doing fine on his own. Counted up the tiles, and it may have been enough without the revolt, but think it would still have been just below 2.0x land.

A little earlier Isabella broke free from Charlie, and of course our troops instantly moved into attacking positions around her two remaining cities, and I went into a whipping frenzy to get out trebs, and enough attackers for city #2. Frustratingly, Joao was teching Edu, and since it was just at break-even when trading Philo, I took the trade and hoped he wouldn't go straight for Lib. Of course he did...

With building research in the capital once Oxford was out, I could get Lib in the same turn, which I think means the human would get the free tech. But it would be Nationalism, which Joao already had anyway.

So let's try to kill Isabella. Maybe...?



Napoleon and Darius are at each other again, and Charlie now hates me. Getting Napoleon to cut of trade with him was perhaps not the wisest move ever (wanted to prevent them trading, as the tech pace was getting out of control), but if Charlie comes after me, it will be his doom.

Now when Lib should be safe, as nobody else have Edu yet (but Darius is probably going for it as he just asked me to buy it), I should have time to get Nationalism first, and then Lib MT. Whip like crazy, and kill the rest.

Hmm... From the map, I'd think that you have twice the land, maybe you're only missing a little power and he'd vassal. If you think that that is possible, you could take something different than Nationalism like i. e. Printing Press which brings you on the road towards Rifles. Lib Nationalism btw. is the best move anyhow if you cannot trade for it Nationalism is really almost the same price as MT and the earlier TM or even the chance to get the TM at all is imo. worth a lot more than those 200 or 300 .

Really check that peace-vassal chance very thoroughly, there seems to be some free land in the south, maybe that'd be enough already. Once you're at war with BK, you cannot vassal Joao anymore because his power gets subtracted from yours and once you vassal him you'll get combined diplomatic stance, so if there's any chance at all, wait with the war and vassal him. If it's impossible, I'd go to war against him first, because he seems to be much weaker and could build the TM if he has Nationalism. Vassaling him by force also means free Nationalism again.

@ Pangaea

You want to self tech Natio now ?
I assume yes beocuse You want to Lib MT and if Jao is reaserching Lib You dont have anything to trade with him.

Jao has Natio, its realy realy bad move to reaserch something what Your vassal has...
From what i read nobody is even close to Rifling yet, so from my point of view getting MT 10 turns later it doesnt realy matter.
In that regard what i would do is Lib PP -> trade for Natio Self tech MT.
Jao Gunpowder. MT for Gunpowder + stop tradeing with everybody.
After this Jao Banking you RP -> Rilfling ... GG.
Probably you can finish this just with Cuirs.

Unbelievable... I founded both Corporations, researched AL and am at the point where I almost got Assembly Plants + Coal Plants + both Corporations in all ities, then I found this:



If you see that mine and ask yourself why I didn't blend in resource bubbles, it just wouldn't change anything. I had to think about how it's actually possible that an AI can build a Mine on Grassland with me having BW + IW and then I found out that that is Uranium, so Mansa has Fission while I not even even Physics yet and have a negative GPT at 0% .

This sreen is also nice:



The cursor is on the tile in the inner circle of my 60% city and it has 13% on a tile in the 5th ring of Mansas capital . His city is at 50000 :culture, with my current tempo I'm not sure whether I'll need to prevent him from winning via espionage by destryoing SS parts or via destroying Cathedrals .

Or these:



Mansa has compareable GNP and that with every of my cities having Sushi and almost all got Mining .

As a comparison, this is Lizzy:



Who has the same number of cities and is also FIN and has the largest Shrine on the map. I told you, Mansa is in my game .



This is what I see from him, he just really has every single tech possible and is up to 2 techs in advance. He didn't build any of the Hit Wonders, the Eiffel Tower or the Christo Redentor yet, that's probably because he just researches too fast for production to have any chance to compete.

And this with being at 65% of the land limit...



This is not a fight for a #1 anymore, it's just me against Mansa:

If Sushi is crazy...



Then what is this guy?



What, I only need 10k+ of to see what he can tech? Wait, that's only 100T from now, but oh noez, he pumps twice the against me that I can put up with Spy Specialists in 30 cities :



Probably also better, that I don't see, what he can tech. BiC's call to build multipliers was actually frightingly good, it'd had been top choice. Not for competetive, no, for winning against Mansa. Jails + Intelligence Agencies give +100% and they even give fixed points like the Courthouses aswell while costing less than the or multipliers. Seems I really didn't realize what monster I have in my game until now. First I only wondered that he teched so fast and thought that he advanced with lightspeed because he got so many trades, but I'm on the level of Lizzy, he has gotten 0 trades for a long time already and now he has 2 techs after the tech that I'm researching with -200GPT at 0% .

Really, I learned a lot in this game. I actually played better than in many other games I played and I'm still astonished that I could get partly back by re-gaining Lizzy as a trade-partner, but this map is just the oddest map ever, it's just instant loss from turn 1, and I don't even know how Mansa does that. 1 times Gems, ok, GLH was already later, he had 3 techs when I got Currency and after that he was gone and only further gone the next time and even again further away the time after...

Regarding Cottages without Libbing Emancipation or at least superearly Emancipation because an AI beelines it: I built Cottages, because I told that I'd test out that approach, take a look a my cities:



























So very mixed somehow as you see. Capital ofc. could work the Cottages most of the time with beeing large and even having 2 helper cities, but all others cities just purely suck. Essen I had to run as a GP-Farm because it was the only chance on a 100% GM (missed Economics) so it couldn't grow the Cottages, the Plains-Cottage-city just didn't have the before Sushi, the other cities, maybe a village if built very early, otherwise Hamlets and simple Cottages unless it's a city I conquered from the AI, those are the only really good Villages and Tows of the later cities. Just not possible to grow Cottages or just not adviseable except for a very few, first one needs to find some cities, then basic whipping of Infra, then whipping for war, then whipping for GP-slots and Oxford, then whipping Execs, the cities just don't have the time to work the Cottages until Workshops have 3 and Windmills are available aswell, so it's a decision between 1 and 2 or 3 , and even have the easier multipliers with AL. A Watermill or Windmill just kills a Cottage completely, no need to even think about building or working them, once those are available. So really no way around end-game-caste and if Cottages, only with superearly Emancipation. Major fail in my game, but as I cannot take it serious anymore and only want to still win it against Mansa, everything's ok.

Thought a little crazyness and lecture would be towards your overall fun and knowledge . And now plz someone else write something in this thread than only Pangaea and me, it's embaracing how quiet most others have become again already :whip: .

Well yyeah posted just before you, doesn't he count? [emoji6]

They start to respect me when my Submissions list will be a bit longer .

Seraiel said:

Hmm... From the map, I'd think that you have twice the land, maybe you're only missing a little power and he'd vassal. If you think that that is possible, you could take something different than Nationalism like i. e. Printing Press which brings you on the road towards Rifles. Lib Nationalism btw. is the best move anyhow if you cannot trade for it Nationalism is really almost the same price as MT and the earlier TM or even the chance to get the TM at all is imo. worth a lot more than those 200 or 300 .

Really check that peace-vassal chance very thoroughly, there seems to be some free land in the south, maybe that'd be enough already. Once you're at war with BK, you cannot vassal Joao anymore because his power gets subtracted from yours and once you vassal him you'll get combined diplomatic stance, so if there's any chance at all, wait with the war and vassal him. If it's impossible, I'd go to war against him first, because he seems to be much weaker and could build the TM if he has Nationalism. Vassaling him by force also means free Nationalism again.

Click to expand...

Doesn't look like you paid proper attention to what I wrote. I was very happy because I managed to peace vassal Joao just in time. One turn later, and Lib would be gone. Other AIs got Edu too, and as it turned out I was quite lucky, because Charlie got Lib the same turn I did. Did Lib MT though, so off we go...

After I counted up the tiles, it looked like I was a few tiles short of double his land. Couldn't believe it either, I was sure I had at least twice the land. But I was maybe 5 short. So once Isabella died and I got control of those tiles, it was plenty

yyeah said:

@ Pangaea

You want to self tech Natio now ?
I assume yes beocuse You want to Lib MT and if Jao is reaserching Lib You dont have anything to trade with him.

Jao has Natio, its realy realy bad move to reaserch something what Your vassal has...
From what i read nobody is even close to Rifling yet, so from my point of view getting MT 10 turns later it doesnt realy matter.
In that regard what i would do is Lib PP -> trade for Natio Self tech MT.
Jao Gunpowder. MT for Gunpowder + stop tradeing with everybody.
After this Jao Banking you RP -> Rilfling ... GG.
Probably you can finish this just with Cuirs.

Click to expand...

May well have been a mistake to self-tech Nationalism, but I didn't have any great options anyhow. Other AIs already had PP, including Joao. I could maybe have done Astro just for trade, but as it turned out, if I had done that, I would have lost Lib. And I really didn't want to Lib Nationalism (or PP) when it was already teched by Joao. Quite lucky a couple of times there. First that I was able to peace vassal Joao the same turn he would have finished Lib (though I would have beat him, technically), so I could redirect his research elsewhere, and then that Charlie got to Lib the same turn I did, after self-teching Nationalism.

Game has heated up now. Declared on Charlie and took a few cities, and then Darius backstabbed me. Have taken a city from him too now, a border city, but naturally the front is very big now. It's going well so far, and I hope Napoleon keeps out for the time being. All three hate me. Gotta love middle finger diplomacy But there was no chance I would give away Edu for free, nor change to Buddhism that two cities have, when all others have Hinduism. And other stuff. Here, lick on this finger. Isn't it nice?

Already post-1200AD so it's been a rough game, and still much left, so it won't be a good finish by any means, but it's been fun at least, and that's the main thing.

Okay, seriously, what the F is wrong with the random loss generator in this PoS game? Trying to kill off Napoleon's stack. I have 75-80% on all battles. 12-13 fights so far. I've won 2.

Utterly idiotic.

Case in point, and my God/Devil/Vishnu/whateverthef*** was there a lot of crap like this.



As you can see, the mace was already injured, so he had already trolled the odds once. Like most of his pals did in fairness

Absolutely HATE when crap like his happens, and it happens way too often. It makes me want to stop playing.

You're only saving luck for BOTM 100 like me .

Seraiel said:

You're only saving luck for BOTM 100 like me .

Click to expand...

If that's supposed to be the compensation, I look forward to warrior rushing the entire map.

It's done now, but good grief that was an infuriating end. Napoleon got rifles too (yet didn't have education, so hard beeline), but we punched through a city with heavy losses. When some HRE and Persian cities came out of resistance, and I was close to domination, I changed some civics to pump out culture (was in a GA), and that tipped it over 64%. Won in 1390AD. Decent enough I guess, though nothing stellar.

When I saw the map afterwards, where everybody started, it's no wonder Darius and Charlie got so big. They had a lot of real estate to spread into.

Also, those Landknechts are pretty brutal when sat inside cities with heavy cultural defence. Glad I had a decent amount of trebs and catas, because Cuirs alone against that lot would have been baaaaad.

1220AD UN L\N

Short concept.
Sorry didnt had time to do this ealier and i know that elitetroops wanted to hear it.
I dont know is it new or not, beocuse i dont read guides. I realy like invent strategies.
Its allso needed for EQM since one cant use best map\leader for every single game.


I dont have too much expirience with UN vic so i played quick test game until like 1000AD first to just figured out how do i want to play in terms of strategy.

So after this test game i figured out that what i need is, to do is to find a way how get ais to friendly without:
- religion. bonus
- shered resources bonus
- shered war bonus
- and in some cases without shered fav civic bonus

preety simple

Reasons
I wanted to run economy, basicly one can bulb hes way to MM only with GS and maybe 1 or 2 GA, so i needed Rep(Mids) and Pacifism( no shered civ bonus) + religion offcourse ( no shered rel bonus).
I didnt want to overexpand ( 7 cities) so i knew that amout of my resources for trade can be realy limited so +2 from res wasnt 100% bet.

Shered war bonus allso isnt 100% bet sometimes ai will make a peace and this bonus will drop, i needed to have sure thing.
Regardless i wanted to use this bonus as like wild card. If ai will demand from me too much or something horrible will happen i dont know. I needed to have 1 ai witch everybody else will hate, so i just could start WW against him anytime i want ( DeG).

And finally shered civ bonus, Rep nobody will have Rep early so no, Pacifism this civ isnt fav for any Leader i belive, Brueau (Hammy) Caste ( Wan Kong probably was better choice here then Frederick).
Eventually i wanted to run FR/FM but i didnt knew for how long, wanted to run Pacifism as long as i can. So basicly plan was GA at very end and switch to FR.
But again i didnt want to chance it i meen that some1 wont be friendly in last turn of game.

How to do this...
And inspiration came.

Kaitzilla said:

Now we get to the famous (Liberate) city option.
Not only does it give you "fair trade relations" diplo bonus, you also get a permanent +1.5 "You Liberated a City to us!" diplo bonus.
It might look like a +1 diplo bonus on the scoreboard, but if you (Liberate) 2 cities to an AI, the bonus will read +3 "You Liberated a City to us!"

What's the range on (Liberate) city?
It isn't less than 10 tiles.
It is less than 36 tiles.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12954539&postcount=4276
Thanks Kossin!

So what's the catch?
First, to (Liberate) a city, the city must have 0 in it.
As soon as you put a single culture point into a city, you can't (Liberate) it to an AI anymore.

Second, to (Liberate) a city, the city must be closer to the AI capital than to your capital.

Click to expand...

Here in Europe 1+1=2 thank God that Kaitzilla is from more advanced civilization where 1+1=3 .
Maybe hes English they have metric there .

So basicly +3 liberate a city +4 trade relations +2 OB +1 sustained peace = +10
Nothing more needed, with all other bonuses one can maneuver liek if this guys demands something lest bribe him on De G and get shered war bonus, or give him 3 resources etc etc.

Eg.



Now Map and Leader:

Boreal -> i didnt care about quality of tiles becouse i wanted to run GS.
Lots of Forests ->unlimited producion i could grow city to happy cap run full GS and just choop settlers.
Allso this is kind of map where one can usually find space to squezze gift city.

Preicles
Cre -> since thers not too much good tiles on Boreal border pop is preety importand
Fast Lib -> Faster GS
Phi -> more GS to bulb

Start with hunting not bad for Boreal

Edit.
And i forgot to add basicly one needs only 3 bulding with this type of vic condition i think.
Library, University and Forge ( to multiply or ), 2 of 3 has duble producion speed.

Thx for that guide yyeah and especially for that humor . I also thought, that Boreal must be ideal for this strategy when seeing the screens, because it has territory even the AI won't settle. It's definitely possible to get enough civs to friendly though without liberating cities, maybe this could even improve your finish date further. Also, you can GE-rush the UN, that really saves a lot of turns. Getting a way to win with a good date on Boreal I really like a lot, because I only once played that map, and I still remember how extremely hard it was commerce-wise, even with Mids. Got an extremely good Domination date with that game, probably also because of unlimited production but also because I really focussed very hard on the wars. In case you should be interested in the writeup like I'm interested in yours, you'll find it in my signature, it's called Replay #9 and imo. .

Well done yyeah and thx again for posting about it .

Thanks for the write-up yyeah. Seems like something that works very well on Boreal.

Seraiel said:

Getting a way to win with a good date on Boreal I really like a lot, because I only once played that map, and I still remember how extremely hard it was commerce-wise, even with Mids.

Click to expand...

You can do fast AP victories on Boreal with Bismarck. I think you are still missing no1 slot in that category.

@ Seraiel

Yes theres a room to improove. Like in allmoust every game in HoF i think.
But TBH iam v proud of this 1, this was my 1st time boreal, and 1st time UN( not counting this test), and what is moust importand i felt here like room to impoorve from me is like handfull of turns.
In other games i felt like i can be better by 20-30 turns or even more. Here maybe 10 max at lest at this lvl where i am right now.... now when iam writing it i think i know how to do it faster
I did 1 turn UN GE was my 1st i didnt felt like i need early GS.
Yea one can get some ais to friendly without libereting cities, but it will be hard on Boreal since one have just hanfull of resources on map, but one can manouver with shered technolgy bonus and probably some other stuff.

From my point of view Seraiel giveing up too many settler isnt field to improove here , producion isnt problem couple more forest isnt problem . But yea maybe this could be 1-2 turns.

Way to improove this date the moust is to bulid Oracle and fast Philo.

Edit.
I belive that you have made video of Replay 9 i was watching it( unfortunatly this isnt full game ), same like this OCC video just didnt had time to finish it... yet

The rest of Replay #9 exists as a writeup. I gave up on all the work of commenting on the video, because some people gave it such harsh critiques, but I don't delete any saves, so I could reconstruct the round and write about it later.

Regarding Diplo in general: Shared civic is a huge bonus. +1 from peace, +2 from open borders, +4 from tech gifts is already +7. If you can get shared favourite civic or shared war that's friendly, generally no city gifts needed. I understand, that producing Settlers (especially later) isn't a big problem on Boreal, but I mention this, because it will help you. 1-2T is a lot once your skills are 90%+ of the possible maximum.

@ elitetroops:

I don't like AP-games but will need to take 1-2 AP-slots at some time. Thx for the tip aswell .

For UN diplomatic wins, is there a limitation, like with AP, that if you have too many votes yourself, you can't win the game?

Yes, you may not have enough votes to win by your own number of votes so you need to stay below 66% of the votes.