[GEM] Kaitzilla vs. The World

Isn't there some sort of rule about fighting a land war in Asia? Lol, prove 'em wrong Kaitzilla!

Drakarska said:

Isn't there some sort of rule about fighting a land war in Asia? Lol, prove 'em wrong Kaitzilla!

Click to expand...

It's an 8 page thread believe it or not.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=135694

Also:

Khmer is not nearly the pushover that Persia was.
I'm really, really hoping he attacks Yue again.
If I could bribe anyone to DOW Khmer right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but no one wants to.

Turnset 71 (T298 to T299)

T298 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Great Prophet born in China.

Hindusim spread in Kashgar through random luck. (yay!)
Islam spread in Sardis.
Hinduism spread to Invincible City with my missionary.

I now have a 1.102 Power Rating with Japan.
I've got a fair read on how powerful my close neighbors are now. (Except Babylon)
Switching to Khmer to start revealing tech choice, city visibility, and build enough points to blow up Walls and Revolt cities.


Khmer has formed a Stack of Doom in Isvarapura.
It is 20 units consisting of 13 Shock Axes, 2 Combat 1 Swords, 3 Spears, and 2 Archers.
Yue only has a token force of 3 Axes and 1 Archer guarding hilltop Cherokee.
I'm not sure in which direction the attack will go, or if Khmer will act like Poland and just keep the army there for 30 turns.

My empire continues to try and spread Hinduism, whip Courthouses + Hammams, and build Heroic+National Epic while putting hammer overflows from other cities into them for fail gold.
I'll switch to military production + whips if the Khmer war looks imminent.

Library completed in Bactra finally.
Library whipped in Dariush Kabir. (Libraries are a better source of +2 to pop borders than Monasteries if the can be constructed quickly)
Courthouse whipped in Invincible City. (I like the 4 per turn it saves when #cities maintenance maxes out. The building is half price too! )
Settler whipped in Pataliputra. (It was gathering dust in my queue for a long time. The max overflow will go into Heroic Epic)
Will send it to 1W of the ruins of Gordium like I should have done 10 turns ago.

T299 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Great Scientist born in France.

Khmer has sent 10 units to 4S1W of Isvarapura. (8 Axes, Sword, Spear)
6 remained in Isvarapura and the other 4 units vanished beyond my scouting.
Puzzling, but I won't be alarmed until they start marching west.
Funnily enough, now that I have Open Borders with Khmer, they could end up marching towards me to cross my empire and attack my western neighbors, but that will still be enough to trigger me to mobilize.

Hinduism spread in Persepolis with missionary, but failed to spread to Delhi with missionary.
(There's a 90% odds of success if there is already 1 religion present in a city, but only an 81% chance to successfully spread religion if there are 2 religions present)
Courthouse whipped in Kashgar and Tashkent.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Dhaka.

Annoyingly, I can only have 3 Hindu Missionaries in the build queue of a city or walking around on the map at one time.
Seems kind of silly for an enormous map, but it has never scaled with map size before.
If I had whip anger to spare, I could whip a missionary in a city every turn and take them off the queue.
Then I could let 3 of them complete and the rest would turn into fail gold.
Thankfully I can get much better returns putting production overflows into Heroic Epic, National Epic, and later Moai Statues since I have marble and stone.

My empire continues to slowly repair its economy.
My 26th city will be in a prime spot fairly soon.

The Yue Empire has a frightful 20 unit Stack of Doom 4E1N of Bactra marching west to annihilate Ragnar's final city.
I'm still not sure how Ragnar is still alive that this point.
If only the Dutch weren't perpetually lost...

Japan has 10 units in Tianjin.
Once Tokugawa starts plotting war again, they will probably form some of his attack force being on the mainland already.

African Scout shows nothing too interesting.
Chariot left over from conquering Persepolis has nearly scouted all of Babylon.
Most cities have 3 defenders and 8 Workers are concentrated around Erech to the west of Bronze City.
Surprisingly, Egypt is ready to talk to me again already after cutting off trade relations for a Khmer Peace Treaty that didn't occur, so I signed Open Borders again.

Julius Caesar of the Roman Empire has Metal Casting, so he's once again the tech leader of the world.

Turnset 72 (T300)

T300 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Khmer is marching his 10 units southwest towards Khotan.
Even worse, 2 extra Swords + 1 Spear appeared in Nagara Jayasri.
Then there are the 1 Spear, 1 Sword, and 1 Axe west of Angkor Wat that aren't protecting Workers and will be free to join any attack.

After moving both my Woodsman II Axe and regular Axe onto the stack of 10 Khmer units, I went ahead and withdrew some more Axes back towards Biskek and Khotan.
Only the middle mountain pass has some ability to teleport Khmer backwards in the case of a DOW, and my Chariot + 2 Khmer_stack Axes can manage it themselves.
Khotan also has better defensive potential than 1S of Khotan now that the city has Walls, so I moved 3 units north into the city earlier.

Switching multiple cities to start building Axes for 1 turn.
Recalling the 4th Persian Sword to garrison Dhaka to send another Sword east.
The Khmer DOW against me is estimated to come T302 at the earliest 1S of Khotan or on that jungle elephant east of Khotan.
There should be enough time to whip Walls in Biskek and whip some more units T301 if Khmer takes even one more step west.

Now, time for some diplomacy.
Qin of China, Goujian of Yue, and Tokugawa of Japan are all willing to DOW an AI they are Pleased with if I have Pleased relations with them unless they have "nothing to gain".
Japan is plotting war.
Bah! He would start plotting war this turn. (It better not be against me )
That means I can't bribe him into any wars anymore. (Plus, I'm +4 Relations and Cautious with him with no quick way to improve relations, so I couldn't bribe him anyway)

First, I have to stop Qin's war with Ragnar.
Qin is Pleased with Khmer and Friendly with me, so perhaps he is willing to DOW Khmer?
Traded Monotheism to China for Cease Fire against Scandinavia.
(Brokered peace like this is always a Cease Fire. War could break out between them again next turn because it isn't a 10 turn Peace Treaty)
China made peace with Ragnar.
....
Boo! China isn't interested in war with Khmer.
There is a nice Khmer city just east of China in former Korea, but Qin just isn't interested.
I have no idea why he's willing to attack Hungary or Carthage, but not Khmer.

Yue moved its Stack of Doom closer to Bactra and has 3 more units trailing behind it for the march to Ragnar.

My last shot at diplomacy to turn Khmer's neighbors against him will be with the Yue.
First, I need to halt the war between Yue and Ragnar. (just like China)
Traded Monarchy to Yue for peace with Scandinavia.
Yue made peace with Ragnar.
...
YES!!!
Yue is willing to DOW Khmer for the right price.
Traded Code of Laws to Yue for war against Khmer. (Math alone wasn't enough. Goujian must have it partially researched already)
Goujian of the Yue Empire DOW'd Suryavarmen of the Khmer Empire. (Got a permanent -2 relations with Khmer for bringing in a war ally, hehe)
Note the weird diplo situation at each point.
I was barely at Pleased before brokering peace between Yue and Ragnar.
Then after the peace, I lost -1 relations because the Yue and I no longer shared an active war.
After bribing Yue to DOW Khmer, my relations stayed the same but still dropped from Pleased to Cautious.
If I was Cautious, I could not have bribed Yue to DOW anyone.
Strange game!
Civ 4 always so mysterious.

I should easily be able to kill Persia's new capital Ghulaman next turn, but since it hasn't grown to 2 Population yet, it will autoraze.
It should have grown to Size 2 by now since it was founded T278 and has Deity AI bonuses and those 3 jungle bananas.
Did it reach 2 pop and whip a Galley in between turns and stayed Size 1 to my eyes?
I'd hate to kill a perfectly good 300 city that already has Hinduism.

Cold whipped a Hindu Monastery in Persepolis (3pop) and switched to an Islamic Monastery.
I'll whip that next turn and Persepolis can stay at 2 pop for a bit thanks to the cow tile with 2 food.
Courthouse whipped in Biskek.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Lahore.
Production overflow in Kashgar and Tashkent going into Heroic Epic and National Epic.

Turnset 73 (T301 to T302)

T301 - Barbarians: 2 Archers died.

Great Artist born in Spain. (Isabella did not tech Music)
I am the largest civ on Earth.

HAHAHAHA
Yue is marching his 21 unit SoD near Bactra east to China's roads to go clobber Khmer. (It will take a good 10 turns)
Khmer is marching his SoD northeast to go clobber Yue.
That war bribe totally worked.
Also, I now have enough espionage points thanks to all my Courthouses to see that Khmer is 1 turn away from teching Math.

Founded my 26th city Istanbul, an earthy farmland paradise 3S2W of Varanasi.

Whipped the Islamic Monastery in Persepolis as planned.
Will likely try to 1 pop whip a Courthouse soon using the production overflow.
No sense in having a Granary until my 5 per turn steals the Fish from Babylon.

Tokugawa doesn't appear to be targeting Khmer whom he is Pleased with based off the 5 units that just left Tianjin.
My Asian scout will try to follow them to see if Japan is getting ready to attack me, the Yue, or someone else far away.

Switched all of my southern cities back from Axes to buildings since Khmer is at war and marching towards Yue now.
Varanasi popped borders again.
Hinduism spread to Sardis and Bakhara successfully using Hindu Missionaries.
Estruscans put some production overflow into Heroic Epic.

Decided not to attack Persia's island capital since it is still 1 population.
No harm in waiting I think.
None of my cities with +2 War Weariness have regrown large enough to have angry citizens after all the recent whipping yet.

T302 - Barbarians: 1 Archer died.

China DOW'd Scandinavia. (One of Ragnar's many war opponents probably bribed Qin back into the good war)

Freaking Cyrus!
Ghulaman still hasn't grown to Size 2, and now he has a Galley ready to pillage my Estruscan Fish again.
I've zoomed in on Ghulaman to see if it has any buildings, but I see none.
A test game shows the difference between a city with no buildings and a city with a Granary.

Should I finish Persia off now?
Or should I wait until I'm certain Ghulaman has grown to 2 Population so I can capture it instead of automatically raze it?
I can probably do without Fish or Clams for a while, but if my Galley sinks in a surprise naval battle against a hidden Persian Galley, that would be bad.
I've got a City Raider III Axe that can solo Ghulaman, and a Galley with a City Raider III Axe that can take the Sword and go attack the other island city.

I'll pause the game here for reader suggestions because I'm a bit stumped.

Great playing and great write up as usual. On of the webpages in the Internet which I check everyday for some updates. Even if looks like 100% won game, it is still very interesting to follow some desicion to overcome current difficulties. I mean nasty Khmers..

It is difficult to suggest you something...Clearly, you know the game much better than me)) But it looks like it is better to capture the Persian city and to finish him as soon as it reasonable (I mean the diplo bonuses with other civs), otherwise he could annoy . Other option is to build a settler and then capture the city. If it is razed then send the settler there. It doesn't look like the city will grow soon enough and their galleys could kill your galleys (so, probably these hammers could go into the settler?...) Moreover, there is a chance that the city was whipped when Persian started to fall down...So, it is difficult to say..there are some pros and cons...)

My guess is that, once that Persian galley will die, Cyrus will whip yet another one, keeping Ghulaman at 1 pop for a long time.
So I'd raze the city now, and then settle the island at your leisure.
It is annoying to have to raze a city which already has Hinduism, but as RedKirrHelper pointed out, if you're going to lose galleys and work boats to Persian galleys, might as well remove the threat now and use those hammers for a settler instead.

RedKirrHelper said:

Great playing and great write up as usual. On of the webpages in the Internet which I check everyday for some updates. Even if looks like 100% won game, it is still very interesting to follow some desicion to overcome current difficulties. I mean nasty Khmers..

It is difficult to suggest you something...Clearly, you know the game much better than me)) But it looks like it is better to capture the Persian city and to finish him as soon as it reasonable (I mean the diplo bonuses with other civs), otherwise he could annoy . Other option is to build a settler and then capture the city. If it is razed then send the settler there. It doesn't look like the city will grow soon enough and their galleys could kill your galleys (so, probably these hammers could go into the settler?...) Moreover, there is a chance that the city was whipped when Persian started to fall down...So, it is difficult to say..there are some pros and cons...)

Click to expand...

Noyyau said:

My guess is that, once that Persian galley will die, Cyrus will whip yet another one, keeping Ghulaman at 1 pop for a long time.
So I'd raze the city now, and then settle the island at your leisure.
It is annoying to have to raze a city which already has Hinduism, but as RedKirrHelper pointed out, if you're going to lose galleys and work boats to Persian galleys, might as well remove the threat now and use those hammers for a settler instead.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Noyyau and RedkirrHelper.

I'll terminate Persia immediately.

First of all, I’m really enjoying this writeup – I check it for updates daily. Thanks!

Second – I can see an island city where Ghulaman is in a T280 screenshot, and Ghulaman is definitely there in a T284 screenshot. It’s now T302. So that city would have grown to size 2 (working the Banana tile) and been whipped before now, almost certainly. Cities only auto-raze if they have never been above size 1, regardless of whether they are currently size 1. So I’d go ahead and grab Ghulaman; the extra trade from an off-continent city should help a bit.

Assuming, of course, that GEM hasn’t changed the city growth or city raze rules.

6K Man said:

First of all, I’m really enjoying this writeup – I check it for updates daily. Thanks!

Second – I can see an island city where Ghulaman is in a T280 screenshot, and Ghulaman is definitely there in a T284 screenshot. It’s now T302. So that city would have grown to size 2 (working the Banana tile) and been whipped before now, almost certainly. Cities only auto-raze if they have never been above size 1, regardless of whether they are currently size 1. So I’d go ahead and grab Ghulaman; the extra trade from an off-continent city should help a bit.

Assuming, of course, that GEM hasn’t changed the city growth or city raze rules.

Click to expand...

Excellent.

I'll be attacking Ghulaman shortly.
I checked on a test game, and the Deity AI needed 52 on marathon speed to grow to Size 2 while the human needed 66
So the food bonus for Deity AI isn't -40% like production is.
It's more like -21% bonus.

Regardless, Ghulaman still should have already gotten 52 by now.
Will cross fingers it doesn't auto-raze.

Turnset 74 (T302 to T304)

T302 Continued - Persia must die!

Workboat retreated to Estruscans from Persian Galley.

Axe won against Spear in Ghulaman at 99.2% odds
Ghulaman captured! (it didn't burn down )
The city yielded 33 and 1 population.
A Worker was spotted 1N1E of Ghulaman, so the Axe on the Galley sailed into the city.
Worker Captured!
Both City Raider III Axes were loaded onto the Galley and moved into place to finish Persia next turn.

Khmer's 10 unit army is still marching northeast back up to Isvarapura.
The Japanese stack of 5 units broke up in Korea.
African scout reports the Sahara Desert is really empty.

Hinduism spread in Delhi with Missionary.
Hindu Missionaries whipped in Tashkent + Sardis.
Courthouse whipped in Pataliputra + Varanasi.
Production overflow in Lahore going into Heroic Epic.

Canceled Bronze + Rice gift to Carthage.
Gifted Copper to Yue.

T303 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Fish pillaged by Persian Galley south of Estruscans.
Great General born in Khmer.

Cyrus' final city is a single tile island holding the city Zohan.
It is defended by 1 Axe.
Will my 2 City Raider III Axes win be enough? They better!

Axe lost against Axe in Zohan at 32.2% odds. (crap, only knocked it down to 4.1/5 hp)
Axe won against Axe in Zohan at 69.4% odds. (YES!)
Zohan razed for 19
The Persian civilization has been destroyed.



Mongolia, Egypt, Carthage, Zulu, Ethiopia, Hungary, and Poland are now at peace.

Persian War Totals: (T279 to T303)
Losses
26 Axes
20 Swords
2 Chariots
1 Worker
3 Seafood Tiles Pillaged
(Workboats are 45 hammers each in Marathon Giant Earth Mod)

Kills
26 Archers
24 Axes
13 Spears
19 Immortals
3 Galleys
9 Workers captured
9 Cities captured with 44 population
2 Cities razed

The Indian sub-continent is mine!!!
The World™ is in big trouble now.



Japan is no longer plotting war. (They were plotting against Persia hah!)

Khmer now has 15 units in Isvarapura.
If he attacks Cherokee to the north, he will easily overwhelm the 3 Yue defenders.

Library whipped in Tarsus.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Bukhara.
Wine improvement completed 2W of Invincible City. (Don't need Spanish Wine desperately anymore)
Production overflow in Tashkent and Varanasi going into Heroic Epic and National Epic.

Gifted Wine + Ivory to Japan to try to improves relation to Pleased.
Am currently +4 Cautious with Japan.
If I can get +1 Open Borders or +1 Shared Resources to increase by 1 point, then I might be able to bribe Japan to DOW Khmer.
Traded Meditation + Priesthood to Japan for a Trade Embargo against Khmer. (It hurts Japan<->Khmer relations by closing borders and they won't speak to each other)

T304 - Barbarians: My Chariot died trying to attack barb Axe for xp.

The Yue Empire stripped its border city of Cherokee down to 2 defenders at the very moment Khmer marched a 10 unit army onto its doorstep. x_o
Cherokee is doomed.
The war will become much more interesting when the 21 unit Yue SOD marches down from China.

Hinduism spread to Ecbatana with Missionary.
Production overflow in Delhi put into National Epic. (chop)
Courthouse whipped in Persepolis.

Bringing the final Axe + Sword north from the Persian Island to go conquer some barb cities in the north.
Will also send my highest promoted 2 Swords + Axe from Biskek to conquer barb cities.
I doubt Khmer will attack me during the Khmer<->Yue war, so weakening my eastern border should be ok.

Julius won't trade Metal Casting anymore because he is now building the Colossus. "We have our reasons"

Turnset 75 (T305 to T308)

T305 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Khmer captured the city Cherokee from the Yue Empire.
This has strategic implications.
Once Cherokee comes out of revolt, Khmer will be touching enough Chinese land tiles for China to consider Khmer a Land Target.
If that happens, China might be willing to DOW Khmer instead of saying "We have nothing to gain".

My Spy in Bantu doesn't have any of the new missions I was expecting GEM to introduce like assassinations.

Lahore popped borders again.

Hinduism spread to Bronze City with Missionary.
Courthouse whipped in Bukhara.
Hammam whipped in Dhaka.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Ecbatana.

Every AI that isn't plotting war just isn't interested in attacking Khmer.

T306 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Netherlands + Hungary have Construction, but I've got nothing to trade them for it.

Khmer has 11 units now in Isvarapura.
I also have enough on Khmer to get city vision on all his cities.
Suryavarmen is quite prosperous.

African scout has now unfogged all of North Africa.
Will send him over and then down the east coast of Africa next.

Hinduism spread to Bactra + Istanbul with Missionaries.
Islamic Monastery whipped in Pasargadae to pop borders later.
Courthouse whipped in Dariush Kabir.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Sardis.
Production overflows in Dhaka and Bukhara put into Heroic Epic and National Epic for fail gold.

T307 - Barbarians: No deaths.

Great Scientist born in the Zulu Empire.
Great Scientist born in the Yue Empire.

Biskek popped borders again.
That will give me an extra turn to prepare if someone DOW's me from the east.

Khmer is starting to pool a 2nd army around Angkor Wat in addition to the one in Isvarapura.

There is a diplomatic opportunity with Babylon now that Persia is dead.
Note the sign on the map that say "Gift City #7"
That spot is 11 tiles from my capital and 10 tiles from Babylon, so I can "Liberate" that city to Babylon now that Persia's capital is gone.

I currently have +1 Liberate City bonus and can increase it to +3 with a city gift.
My +8 Pleased relations would increase to +10 and keep my western border safe as -1 diplo penalties with Babylon pile up as the game proceeds.
Will send a Settler there after I settle all the land I stole from Persia.

Hindu Missionary whipped in Kashgar.
Production overflow in Dariush Kabir was put into National Epic for fail gold.

It is time to tech Currency.
Lots of fail gold has be prepared and I will complete Heroic Epic and National Epic soon.
Science Slider set to 100% Currency.

T308 - Barbarians: 1 Axe and 2 Warriors died.

Persepolis popped borders.

Khmer is marching 2 stacks of 5 units towards Yue's city Hangzou.

Courthouse completed in Sardis.
Hindu Missionary whipped in Ecbatana.
Production overflow in Kashgar put into National Epic for fail gold.

Oh!
Poland has Construction for trade and I have some techs to trade him.
Traded Code of Laws + Literature to Poland for Construction.
Construction discovered!

I can now move my units across rivers much faster.
Time to start building Catapults.
Perversely, they are so cheap in Giant Earth Mod at 75 each that I can't 2-pop whip them and quickly produce pairs.
"They are too cheap" is a strange complaint to have, but I'll grumble about it anyway.

Gems City and Bronze City are finally starting to develop now that I have some food tiles to grow on.

Science Slider set to 50% Currency.
Heroic Epic will complete in Pataliputra in 1 turn.
Chopped 2 forests in Pataliputra that will overflow into National Epic next turn for fail gold.
I'd rather have the 405 gold right now than 5 Catapults.

Turnset 76 (T309 to T310)

T309 - Barbarians: 1 Warrior died.

Great Scientist born in Ethiopia.

France is plotting war.
Zulu is plotting war.

Rome is no longer Friendly. (nothing changed that I can see )

Gained 910 from all the cities that partially built Heroic Epic. ^_^

Khmer enlarged one of his 2 stacks to 11 units and moved the 2nd stack of 4 units towards Hangzou.
Will they merge into one Stack of Doom?
Also, I've accumulated enough now that I can double click on Khmer's 15 cities and see what he is doing in each city.
Weirdly, I can only do it in 3 or 4 cities at the moment.

My 1st National Wonder the Heroic Epic (+100% for military units) completed in Pataliputra.
Will spend one turn putting the massive overflow into National Epic, then start building Catapults.

One group of 3 units is heading north to attack the barb city of Thracian.
Another group of 3 units northwest of Pataliputra is heading up to Bronze+Gems City to conquer the barb city just to the east.

Israel's Hindu Capital city Elephantine (west of Egypt) is lightly defended by 3 units.
It will become a very juicy target if it ever gets a Shrine.

Hinduism spread in Samarkand using Missionary.
Hammam whipped in Chinook.

T310 - Barbarians: 1 Warrior died.

Great Prophet born in Israel.
PLEASE found the Hindu Shrine. (+1 per turn for every city that has Hinduism)
If David founds the Jewish Shrine or bulbs something or settles the Great Prophet, I'll be annoyed.
It was the whole reason I gave the city to David in the first place on T241. (Well, one of the reasons)

Ecbatana popped borders.

Gained 247 from Tashkent partially building Heroic Epic.
I wonder why I didn't get it last turn?
Can you only get fail gold from 4 cities per turn or somesuch?

The Yue Empire's Stack of Doom has appeared from the north right next to Bantu, the city in northeast Khmer.
The 21 units will likely crush the 4 defenders in Bantu.
Khmer also has a Spear and 3 Chariots 1S1W of Hangzhou, but even if they attack Yue's stack it won't matter.
Khmer has their own Stack of Doom of 13 units 1S1E of Isvarapura, but it is 1 tile too far away to respond. (plus, it is mostly Chariots)

Japan is now Pleased with me because the Open Borders bonus increased to +2.
He is willing to DOW Khmer now for the right price.
Of course I'm going to pay it!
Traded Monarchy to Japan for war against Khmer.
Tokugawa of the Japanese Empire DOW'd Suryavarmen of the Khmer Empire.
Japan and Yue now have a common enemy.

Good going, Kaitzilla. Among other great things in your writeup, this is a prime example for how to work on diplomatic relations. So many friendly faces! By the way, why not open borders with England? Traderoutes so far away should be most profitable along with +2 points for shared border.

Major Tom said:

Good going, Kaitzilla. Among other great things in your writeup, this is a prime example for how to work on diplomatic relations. So many friendly faces! By the way, why not open borders with England? Traderoutes so far away should be most profitable along with +2 points for shared border.

Click to expand...

Diplomacy is very strong in Civ 4.
Has any AI even DOW'd me yet?
I'm not sure.
I know I've DOW'd the AI 7 or 8 times already.


England is the Worst Enemy of Hungary, France, and Carthage.
Any resource trade or Open Borders with England might cause one of them to demand I stop trading with England or suffer -1 diplo.
I could just accept the trade embargo, but then England wouldn't talk to me for a long time and I'd suffer -1 diplo with England "You Stopped Trading With Us".

I've got foreign trade routes for each of my 26 cities, and signing Open Borders with England wouldn't give me hardly any boost at this point.
Maybe after I've built Marketplaces for +1 trade routes, Castles for +1 trade routes, or I capture the Great Lighthouse from Japan someday (+2 trade routes coastal cities), I might sign Open Borders with England.

Basically, I don't do any trading with civs that have multiple Worst Enemy status unless there is a big prize like gold or a tech involved.

Agree. Stay away from public enemies

Without issuing any spoiler tags or epic hints, may I politely recommend you take a closer look at the tech tree concerning your spy conundrum?

Good going Kaitzilla!

A couple of comments on mechanics:

Kaitzilla said:

Also, I've accumulated enough now that I can double click on Khmer's 15 cities and see what he is doing in each city.
Weirdly, I can only do it in 3 or 4 cities at the moment.

Click to expand...

Not weird, the investigate city price will vary from city to city depending on modifiers. You're barely above the threshold with 456/425 in Yasodharapura. But kind of weird if you can do it in his large far away capital, but not most of his other cities...

Kaitzilla said:

Gained 247 from Tashkent partially building Heroic Epic.
I wonder why I didn't get it last turn?
Can you only get fail gold from 4 cities per turn or somesuch?

Click to expand...

City builds happen at end of turn, in the order your cities appear in your domestic advisor. At this point, if a city has hammers put into a wonder it cannot build anymore, the hammers will be turned into failgold. Tashkent must come before Pataliputra in the build phase, so their hammer calculations at end of T308 were done before HE was completed. End of T309 the HE was completed and the hammers invested were turned into failgold.

I am very happy to see that you are earning some money again. With currency it should be even better.

BtW, I am still confused...what does it mean "We love the King day" in Civ 4? Is a reduced maintance of the city during that turn?..In Civ 3 it should a reduced corruption as I remember.

Drakarska said:

Without issuing any spoiler tags or epic hints, may I politely recommend you take a closer look at the tech tree concerning your spy conundrum?

Click to expand...

I managed to get some tooltip hints from Control+ALT+O that might be the new missions.
It seems I can bribe Workers to defect and Assassinate settled Great People inside cities.

Spy promotions which I assume I get after successfully completing spy missions are still a mystery. (My 1 Spy died doing spy stuff)
There was a tech at the end of the tech tree that caused a spy to create fallout I think after sabotaging a resource tile. (I spoilered myself ya )

elitetroops said:

Good going Kaitzilla!

A couple of comments on mechanics:

Not weird, the investigate city price will vary from city to city depending on modifiers. You're barely above the threshold with 456/425 in Yasodharapura. But kind of weird if you can do it in his large far away capital, but not most of his other cities...


City builds happen at end of turn, in the order your cities appear in your domestic advisor. At this point, if a city has hammers put into a wonder it cannot build anymore, the hammers will be turned into failgold. Tashkent must come before Pataliputra in the build phase, so their hammer calculations at end of T308 were done before HE was completed. End of T309 the HE was completed and the hammers invested were turned into failgold.

Click to expand...

Oh!
Yes, you're right.
Different cities have different costs, and for some Khmer cities I haven't got quite enough yet to investigate them yet.

You are also quite right about the city order in the domestic advisor.

Tashkent is #2.
Pataliputra is #4.
Lahore, Varanasi, and Dhaka are all further down the list.

So the Heroic Epic stayed in Tashkent's build queue, Pataliputra completed it, and then Lahore+Varanasi+Dhaka all converted it to fail gold.
Then the following turn, Tashkent converted it to fail gold.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Elitetroops.

I remember back in the day Tachywaxon stressing over some cities getting Taj Majal's Golden Age bonus and others missing out during the 1st turn of Golden Age.
Now I know why!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12868442&postcount=215

RedKirrHelper said:

I am very happy to see that you are earning some money again. With currency it should be even better.

BtW, I am still confused...what does it mean "We love the King day" in Civ 4? Is a reduced maintance of the city during that turn?..In Civ 3 it should a reduced corruption as I remember.

Click to expand...

Ya, any city celebrating "we love the King day" gets 0 Maintenance Costs for that turn.
It is really nice when a city is paying huge gold for Corporation maintenance.

witten said:

excerpt from the "Game Concepts -> Cities" section of Civilopedia:

Cities of size 8 and higher which have no unhappy citizens and no food loss to health can enter "We Love the King Day" from time to time.

.. I'd like to stress 'from time to time'

Click to expand...