LotR10: Scouting Sid
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
Why are we spending so many shields and so much gpt on libraries and universities? Are we really thinking we're ever going to be doing our own research? It's already cheaper, in terms of pure gold, to steal than to buy and research is going to be even more expensive than that!
As it is, we're spending 80 shields and 2 gpt for each library -- for what purpose? We're not researching and I can see no foreseeable circumstances that have us researching. WHY?
Anyway, I got it. I'll see what I can do. But unless I hear very compelling reasons, I'm not only going to stop all libraries and universities in progress, I'm going to sell the ones we already have. What a waste! We can't afford to throw away hundreds and hundreds of gold.
Arathorn
As it is, we're spending 80 shields and 2 gpt for each library -- for what purpose? We're not researching and I can see no foreseeable circumstances that have us researching. WHY?
Anyway, I got it. I'll see what I can do. But unless I hear very compelling reasons, I'm not only going to stop all libraries and universities in progress, I'm going to sell the ones we already have. What a waste! We can't afford to throw away hundreds and hundreds of gold.
Arathorn
(0) 850 - OK...it's gonna be a long pre-turn. I can feel it coming already. We have 1960 gold and an income of 182 gpt before I get started. Let's see what happens....
Exploring around, I see...Universal Sufferage underway in a number of nations, but nobody's completed it yet. That's good. Nobody's running away with population or with land area.
We're at 49 units with 45 allowed. We're paying 8 gpt. That's not bad at all. Under the old Republic rules, we'd've been paying 49 gpt, so we're ahead of that game...right now...as long as we don't get attacked. I doubt that 49 units (16 of whom are workers) will inspire much fear in our foes.
I sell many libraries. We were losing quite a bit of gpt on these. They are never going to do us any good. University/library builds are changed to courthouses/banks/units to move shields from one place to another. Wealth was changed in C3C, too, from 8 shields/1 gold and 4 shield/1 gold (pre- and post- Economics) to 4/1 and 2/1 respectively, so it's actually a reasonable thought at this point. No cities are put on wealth, yet, but it's worth considering.
Why wasn't a temple rushed in Gouda like right away? We're losing lots of squares we don't have to. And then a harbor to actually get some iron home? Wasteful, wasteful, wasteful.
I rush a number of temples in high-fliprisk areas. A few other important buildings like courthouse and aqueduct get rushed a couple of places.
Checking prices on steals vs. buying techs, I wonder why we've bought any of the first halfs of twofers in a long time. We can steal for ~2K and buying a tech costs roughly 5K. Even if we fail in the steal, as long as we don't get warred upon, we're good to go. I'll be building up cash.
Portugal offers 5 gpt, 20 gold, and WM for horses. I debate, but I decide against this, as Portugal might be a twofer partner, is in danger of not surviving 20 turns, and isn't really paying full price for the horses.
Only two wars going on right now. Hittites are fighting Mongols and Russia. That's it. That's very disappointing. Our hope really lies in the AI civs beating each other to death while we catch up.
Governments are very spread out, though. Aztecs are in Fascism. Hittites Monarchy. Mongols and Russia Republic. Portugal Democracy. And Ottomans Communism. How very interesting.
After my spending sprees, we're down to 916 gold and 187 gpt. The latter number should perk up as some of my efforts come to fruition, however.
(I) Aztecs declared war on the Hittites. Goodie! More confrontations are good for us, as long as nobody comes too far out on top. Magadan is captured/flips to Aztecs, too. That's odd. Anyway... I'm hoping the Aztecs and Hittites can do some razing in the south to open up room for us down there. I'm going to get a settler or two ready, as insurance.
Haha! After Gouda builds its temple, its borders expand slightly and we now have two railed squares under our control. But Steam Power is still a ways in our future.
(1) 860 - Little of note. Prevent a riot here, short-rush a building there. Portugal's still down the same 2 required techs we are.
(I) Spain wants MPP, RoP, and 5 gpt from us. Since I'm not interesting in participating in her wars, I have to pass.
Dang! Ottomans and Spanish start ToE. We're going to be even further behind in tech real soon now.
(2) 870 - Almost nada. Not building up much cash but our gpt is increasing a fair bit, which should help in the long run. My goal is 3K cash and 300 gpt at the end of my 10 turns, in the IA, but that might be impossible.
(I) Ottomans offer similar deal as Spain but with us kicking in 7 gpt. I again decline. Aztecs and Hittites join ToE parade. Not much differentiation between the tech leaders -- almost assuredly a by-product of the gpt bug flooding too much cash into the system.
(3) 880 - Got iron to play with again. Does anybody need it? Russia does, but 100 gold and WM does not a deal make. So, nothing happens.
(I) Ottoman ships that had been hanging out in our territory forever decide to start moving.
(4) 890 - Not much to do until we have more cash.
(I) Russians want an alliance against the Hittites so much they're willing to offer a RoP with it.
Nothing doing, Cathy.
(5) 900 - Just nothing to do. Hopefully Portugal will get a required tech soon for a 2fer, but we might have to move without Henry.
(I) Watch Hittites die.
(6) 910 - YAWN! There's an opening on "our" southern continent with saltpeter. I consider signing a RoP with Aztecs to get there faster, but our settler and theoretical defender aren't close enough yet to make it an issue.
(I) Hittites/Mongols sign peace. See Aztec infantry.
(7) 920 - Isn't Sid supposed to be exciting?
(I) Aztecs capture Tosontsengel down by Gouda. I was hoping they'd raze it. With their relative culture roughly 20 times ours, I fear for Gouda's future.
(8) 930 - Standard diplo checks. Approaching 2K gold, but I'm still spending some on improving our economy.
(9) 940 - Pay WM and 111 gold to Aztecs for RoP. This should help them move through our area a bit faster AND get us a city by some saltpeter on the southern continent. But nothing interesting to do.
(10) 950 - Not much to do. Income is way back up. A deal must've ended. Save up cash for a steal and hopefully a 2fer with Portugal.
Settler/spear pair, I had intended for one SE of their current location. It's on a river, minimal overlap, has saltpeter first ring, and looks good to me.
With our income well over 400 gpt, we should be able to steal every 5th turn or so, safely (from Russia first, because they're least strong and therefore have cheapest steal rates AND are the least threat to wipe us off the map if we're detected). Ideally, we could 2fer with Portugal, but Henry seems to be getting left in the dust. Steam Power is obviously first priority in IA, with Industrialization and Replaceable Parts coming soon thereafter. If/when 2fers become available again, we'll want to do that. For now, though, catch-up is the order of the day.
Roster:
Arathorn -- just played
Bam-Bam -- UP NOW
Speaker -- ON DECK
Skyfish
Reagan
Gothmog
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr10-950ad.zip
Arathorn
Exploring around, I see...Universal Sufferage underway in a number of nations, but nobody's completed it yet. That's good. Nobody's running away with population or with land area.
We're at 49 units with 45 allowed. We're paying 8 gpt. That's not bad at all. Under the old Republic rules, we'd've been paying 49 gpt, so we're ahead of that game...right now...as long as we don't get attacked. I doubt that 49 units (16 of whom are workers) will inspire much fear in our foes.
I sell many libraries. We were losing quite a bit of gpt on these. They are never going to do us any good. University/library builds are changed to courthouses/banks/units to move shields from one place to another. Wealth was changed in C3C, too, from 8 shields/1 gold and 4 shield/1 gold (pre- and post- Economics) to 4/1 and 2/1 respectively, so it's actually a reasonable thought at this point. No cities are put on wealth, yet, but it's worth considering.
Why wasn't a temple rushed in Gouda like right away? We're losing lots of squares we don't have to. And then a harbor to actually get some iron home? Wasteful, wasteful, wasteful.
I rush a number of temples in high-fliprisk areas. A few other important buildings like courthouse and aqueduct get rushed a couple of places.
Checking prices on steals vs. buying techs, I wonder why we've bought any of the first halfs of twofers in a long time. We can steal for ~2K and buying a tech costs roughly 5K. Even if we fail in the steal, as long as we don't get warred upon, we're good to go. I'll be building up cash.
Portugal offers 5 gpt, 20 gold, and WM for horses. I debate, but I decide against this, as Portugal might be a twofer partner, is in danger of not surviving 20 turns, and isn't really paying full price for the horses.
Only two wars going on right now. Hittites are fighting Mongols and Russia. That's it. That's very disappointing. Our hope really lies in the AI civs beating each other to death while we catch up.
Governments are very spread out, though. Aztecs are in Fascism. Hittites Monarchy. Mongols and Russia Republic. Portugal Democracy. And Ottomans Communism. How very interesting.
After my spending sprees, we're down to 916 gold and 187 gpt. The latter number should perk up as some of my efforts come to fruition, however.
(I) Aztecs declared war on the Hittites. Goodie! More confrontations are good for us, as long as nobody comes too far out on top. Magadan is captured/flips to Aztecs, too. That's odd. Anyway... I'm hoping the Aztecs and Hittites can do some razing in the south to open up room for us down there. I'm going to get a settler or two ready, as insurance.
Haha! After Gouda builds its temple, its borders expand slightly and we now have two railed squares under our control. But Steam Power is still a ways in our future.
(1) 860 - Little of note. Prevent a riot here, short-rush a building there. Portugal's still down the same 2 required techs we are.
(I) Spain wants MPP, RoP, and 5 gpt from us. Since I'm not interesting in participating in her wars, I have to pass.
Dang! Ottomans and Spanish start ToE. We're going to be even further behind in tech real soon now.
(2) 870 - Almost nada. Not building up much cash but our gpt is increasing a fair bit, which should help in the long run. My goal is 3K cash and 300 gpt at the end of my 10 turns, in the IA, but that might be impossible.
(I) Ottomans offer similar deal as Spain but with us kicking in 7 gpt. I again decline. Aztecs and Hittites join ToE parade. Not much differentiation between the tech leaders -- almost assuredly a by-product of the gpt bug flooding too much cash into the system.
(3) 880 - Got iron to play with again. Does anybody need it? Russia does, but 100 gold and WM does not a deal make. So, nothing happens.
(I) Ottoman ships that had been hanging out in our territory forever decide to start moving.
(4) 890 - Not much to do until we have more cash.
(I) Russians want an alliance against the Hittites so much they're willing to offer a RoP with it.
Nothing doing, Cathy. (5) 900 - Just nothing to do. Hopefully Portugal will get a required tech soon for a 2fer, but we might have to move without Henry.
(I) Watch Hittites die.
(6) 910 - YAWN! There's an opening on "our" southern continent with saltpeter. I consider signing a RoP with Aztecs to get there faster, but our settler and theoretical defender aren't close enough yet to make it an issue.
(I) Hittites/Mongols sign peace. See Aztec infantry.
(7) 920 - Isn't Sid supposed to be exciting?
(I) Aztecs capture Tosontsengel down by Gouda. I was hoping they'd raze it. With their relative culture roughly 20 times ours, I fear for Gouda's future.
(8) 930 - Standard diplo checks. Approaching 2K gold, but I'm still spending some on improving our economy.
(9) 940 - Pay WM and 111 gold to Aztecs for RoP. This should help them move through our area a bit faster AND get us a city by some saltpeter on the southern continent. But nothing interesting to do.
(10) 950 - Not much to do. Income is way back up. A deal must've ended. Save up cash for a steal and hopefully a 2fer with Portugal.
Settler/spear pair, I had intended for one SE of their current location. It's on a river, minimal overlap, has saltpeter first ring, and looks good to me.
With our income well over 400 gpt, we should be able to steal every 5th turn or so, safely (from Russia first, because they're least strong and therefore have cheapest steal rates AND are the least threat to wipe us off the map if we're detected). Ideally, we could 2fer with Portugal, but Henry seems to be getting left in the dust. Steam Power is obviously first priority in IA, with Industrialization and Replaceable Parts coming soon thereafter. If/when 2fers become available again, we'll want to do that. For now, though, catch-up is the order of the day.
Roster:
Arathorn -- just played
Bam-Bam -- UP NOW
Speaker -- ON DECK
Skyfish
Reagan
Gothmog
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/lotr10-950ad.zip
Arathorn
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Got it. Should be able to play this evening (Saturday), after I tear myself away from GalCiv.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Sorry for the late notice folks--I have to ask for a skip. The missus has taken over the computer for xmas card production. Woe is he who wants to use this machine for games in the next day or so!
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
I'm back. Things look about as I would have expected. Seeing Magadan not in our possession still pains me.
Playing Sid without any benefits from a FP (we never built one right?), and the gpt bug is pretty rough. But we persevere, with any luck we'll play catch up right up till the big launch.
Playing Sid without any benefits from a FP (we never built one right?), and the gpt bug is pretty rough. But we persevere, with any luck we'll play catch up right up till the big launch.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Since I was the original requester of the skip, I will take up the game. The Chistmas card peril is no more. Got it--will play tonight.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
Heh, I was not awake at 1:45am to see your message Skyfish but it's just as well. My civ computer's hard drive has gone a bit buggy and civ is not stable atm. I need to reinstall, but have been quite busy since returning from my trip (my 'honeydo' list is quite long and my kids are all over me). I should have it all under control by the weekend.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Inherited Turn 950 AD
Pre-flight checks ok. We can steal, but there is no 2fer, since Portugal is the only civ besides us not in the IA. They lack Mag, MilTrad, and ToG
Bursa completes ToE
. A volcano erupts on Mongol lands.
960 AD (1)
Amsterdam swiss merc--swiss merc. Settler pair moves SE into position. Careful steal from Russia gets us Magnetism.
970 AD (2)
Dordrecht founded at Arathorn's recommended spot. There are some more locations opening up with razed cities--will try to get some settlers into position. Argh--Portugal was researching mag--my choice of the steal lost the 2fer.
980 AD (3)
Amsterdam merc--wealth. Harlingen duct--granery. Rush court in Breda and harbor in Gouda.
990 AD (4)
Gronigen harbor--cathedral. Breda courthouse--market. Gouda harbor--catherdral for culture. I know the library is cheaper, but we will be in more need of happiness than research in this backwater. BTW, why are we mining tundra--foresting gives an extra shield for the same food and commerce (of course-that extra shield is likely to be lost to corruption
).
IT: Salonika (ottoman) completes US.
1000 AD (5)
Arnhem cathedral--wealth. Time for another steal.--this time we fail, and Cathy declares on us! Rush temple in Dordrecht.
IT: Ottomans declare on Aztecs.
1010 AD (6)
Dodrecht temple--worker. Tilburg temple--court. I have been upgrading a few mercs--just in case. Also switch some weath to trebuchets or longbows--we do not have anything to fend off even a halfhearted AI landing. We have 49 units with 52 allowed.
IT: Hittites and Aztec sign peace.
1020 AD (7)
Blockade Aztecs at the choke. Rush court in Enschede.
IT: Spot Ottoman destroyers--looks like ToE is doing them a load of good.
1030 AD (8)
Rotterdam cathedral--trebuchet. Enschede court--market. Cathy's still sore at us.
1040 AD (9)
Amsterdam longbow--longbow. Arnhem longbow--longbow.
1050 AD (10)
The Hague longbow--horse. Utrecht trebuchet--trebuchet. Maastricht trebuchet--trebuchet. Get a palace expansion (what, for surviving this long ). I saw a Russian galleon coming around to our northern cities (bypassing Khabarvsk??). Troops should be kept up that way, if there were any troops . Cathy will talk, and will give us a discount on ToG (1815g--which is about the cost of a careful steal).
So...peace and 1815g for ToG, and we are FINALLY in the industrial age.! [dance]
THE 2fer IS NOW POSSIBLE!!!. Everyone is up the three visable techs, EXCEPT the Mongols, who lack steam power. [dance]. Of course, we lack the cash right now for a steal, but that should be corrected in a couple of turns. I suggest that we stick with the steal plan--the AIs want over 250gpt and 750g for steam power, and Russia is so pissed that even iron doesn't get us a decent discount.
I suggest letting the current military builds complete, and then start skimming workers--we do NOT have enough for the massive railing (assuming we have coal ).
Sid's Vicious?
Good Luck, Skyfish!
Skyfish <=== UP
Reagan <=== ON DECK
Pre-flight checks ok. We can steal, but there is no 2fer, since Portugal is the only civ besides us not in the IA. They lack Mag, MilTrad, and ToG
Bursa completes ToE
. A volcano erupts on Mongol lands.960 AD (1)
Amsterdam swiss merc--swiss merc. Settler pair moves SE into position. Careful steal from Russia gets us Magnetism.
970 AD (2)
Dordrecht founded at Arathorn's recommended spot. There are some more locations opening up with razed cities--will try to get some settlers into position. Argh--Portugal was researching mag--my choice of the steal lost the 2fer.
980 AD (3)
Amsterdam merc--wealth. Harlingen duct--granery. Rush court in Breda and harbor in Gouda.
990 AD (4)
Gronigen harbor--cathedral. Breda courthouse--market. Gouda harbor--catherdral for culture. I know the library is cheaper, but we will be in more need of happiness than research in this backwater. BTW, why are we mining tundra--foresting gives an extra shield for the same food and commerce (of course-that extra shield is likely to be lost to corruption
).IT: Salonika (ottoman) completes US.
1000 AD (5)
Arnhem cathedral--wealth. Time for another steal.--this time we fail, and Cathy declares on us! Rush temple in Dordrecht.
IT: Ottomans declare on Aztecs.
1010 AD (6)
Dodrecht temple--worker. Tilburg temple--court. I have been upgrading a few mercs--just in case. Also switch some weath to trebuchets or longbows--we do not have anything to fend off even a halfhearted AI landing. We have 49 units with 52 allowed.
IT: Hittites and Aztec sign peace.
1020 AD (7)
Blockade Aztecs at the choke. Rush court in Enschede.
IT: Spot Ottoman destroyers--looks like ToE is doing them a load of good.
1030 AD (8)
Rotterdam cathedral--trebuchet. Enschede court--market. Cathy's still sore at us.
1040 AD (9)
Amsterdam longbow--longbow. Arnhem longbow--longbow.
1050 AD (10)
The Hague longbow--horse. Utrecht trebuchet--trebuchet. Maastricht trebuchet--trebuchet. Get a palace expansion (what, for surviving this long
). I saw a Russian galleon coming around to our northern cities (bypassing Khabarvsk??). Troops should be kept up that way, if there were any troops . Cathy will talk, and will give us a discount on ToG (1815g--which is about the cost of a careful steal).So...peace and 1815g for ToG, and we are FINALLY in the industrial age.! [dance]
THE 2fer IS NOW POSSIBLE!!!. Everyone is up the three visable techs, EXCEPT the Mongols, who lack steam power. [dance]. Of course, we lack the cash right now for a steal, but that should be corrected in a couple of turns. I suggest that we stick with the steal plan--the AIs want over 250gpt and 750g for steam power, and Russia is so pissed that even iron doesn't get us a decent discount.
I suggest letting the current military builds complete, and then start skimming workers--we do NOT have enough for the massive railing (assuming we have coal
).Sid's Vicious?
Good Luck, Skyfish!
Skyfish <=== UP
Reagan <=== ON DECK
I was mining tundra that had already been chopped -- trying to clarify where it was of no use to plant and chop again. Once rails come along, mined/railed tundra is as good as forested tundra. I should've mentioned that.
Arathorn
Arathorn
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
OK--makes sense. Probably a good idea for SGs. In solo games, I try to keep to a pattern of chopping/reforesting so I do not lose track--and I USUALLY have enough workers that a few lost turns do not matter. That isn't the case here.
Hopefully, if we get that 2fer with the Mongols, we will start to see the rest of the AI not so bunched up on tech--opening up more 2fers. Based on them getting the ToE, and also US, I suspect the Ottomans are starting to pull away from the field. Not good, since they will also get a boost in the modern age from their free tech--not to mention more possibilities of SGLs. With all the wars, I suspect that an AI diplomatic victory will likely not happen.
We might just see the modern age--right about the time the AI launches.
Hopefully, if we get that 2fer with the Mongols, we will start to see the rest of the AI not so bunched up on tech--opening up more 2fers. Based on them getting the ToE, and also US, I suspect the Ottomans are starting to pull away from the field. Not good, since they will also get a boost in the modern age from their free tech--not to mention more possibilities of SGLs. With all the wars, I suspect that an AI diplomatic victory will likely not happen.
We might just see the modern age--right about the time the AI launches.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
That's one of the the reasons I was building trebuchets (no salt for cannons yet). Artillery would be an essential element to that assault team.
Realistically, we DO have a chance to catch up on tech. Lots of AI warring (a couple of more wars broke out on my terms), the land formation (few credible threats if we get caught stealing), and lack of variant rules for diplomacy (where other LotR series games ran into trouble). While I am not certain that we can achieve complete parity with the leader by the end of the IA, we should be pretty darn close. We have a strong economy before stock exchanges/commercial docks (which will be cheaper for us IIRC), so that should get even better--allowing more steals/2fer buying opportunity.
Realistically, we DO have a chance to catch up on tech. Lots of AI warring (a couple of more wars broke out on my terms), the land formation (few credible threats if we get caught stealing), and lack of variant rules for diplomacy (where other LotR series games ran into trouble). While I am not certain that we can achieve complete parity with the leader by the end of the IA, we should be pretty darn close. We have a strong economy before stock exchanges/commercial docks (which will be cheaper for us IIRC), so that should get even better--allowing more steals/2fer buying opportunity.
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