Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

@WT

This OF trick with excess hammers going into warriors/Quechas overflowing into gold is a known way to keep the economy afloat. Although it's well known, would you say that this is stage one of your WB economy?

If you were not playing as HC and were only able to build warriors, would you still use this tactic this late in the game? Warriors are all but useless now but of course, Quechuas may still be somewhat useful although not at the same level they were at T30. If not with warriors, what would you use?
 
Warriors are still MP, but I would probably try to minimize the number I create.

I hope to discuss the economy soon and whether this tactic fits under that umbrella.
 
This Oporto/Hamburg puzzle can be tricky. I'm trying to push the limit of it and whip 5 more times in Oporto, 4 times in Hamburg. And then erase ~330 turns of whip anger.
It'd be easy if I could get another happy, but I don't see that coming.

Anyone want a crack at Oporto:
Food is 60/72
There's room for 2 more anger at size 2 (so I'd still be happy at size 4)
Anger won't wear off for 28 turns.


Update: nevermind. I figured out a way to do it, but it takes too long to grow enough for 5 whips. The gold is delayed too much.
4 will have to do.
 
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Just a note to the lurkers, whipping warriors into gold doesn't work in regular BTS. They broke this system with some patch that fixed the protective walls whip overflow exploit. Currently you need BUFFY to use this trick.

And a question: Do you ever do chained whips into gold? Like build warrior until close to completion, then whip terrace into warrior and whip warrior. This converts all overflow hammers from first whip into gold, plus the 60 gold you get from warrior whip. Requires bigger cities though.

I guess you could also whip warrior then take it out of the cue before it comes out to build up more overflow hammers before you finally complete it and collect the gold. Not sure how this would best be exploited.
 
elitetroops said:
Just a note to the lurkers, whipping warriors into gold doesn't work in regular BTS. They broke this system with some patch that fixed the protective walls whip overflow exploit. Currently you need BUFFY to use this trick.
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't know that. What happens to the overflow in non-BUFFY games?

elitetroops said:
And a question: Do you ever do chained whips into gold?
Click to expand...

Yea, this is what I hinted at. How I can get more than 70 gold on average.
In the turnset report I'll use an Axe. Something like:

whip a quechua -> overflow 34h into Axe
do that again, so there is 68h in the Axe.
Prep another quechua, whip the Axe first, then immediately whip the q.

So you get the usual 60+ but then 90+ for the chained whip (average 75+)
 
Spoiler :
Yup Buffy allows an exploit that was fixed by an official version of the game, i always defend failgold etc. but hammers from anything being turned into gold instantly..

Rusten is of course right, put in spoilers and shortened. Should probably not be discussed in this great thread :)
 
I'd have to agree with Fippy. It's one of the things I dislike about the gotm/HoF mod. I love the easier access to information that it provides, but Buffy is a successor to BUG, which stood for BTS Unaltered Gameplay. This certainly does not count as unaltered. IMO BUFFY took a wrong turn. I could understand straying from the official version if it truly improves the game -- but IMO this is just a stupid mechanic anyway and I'd rather get rid.

But perhaps this discussion would be better served elsewhere. I wouldn't want such a good thread to derail. Kudos to you for taking the time to do this. :goodjob:
 
Just a quick response then we can move on - in the base game you have to do tedious micro management to avoid losing shields, so I think it was a good choice by the BUFFY developers. After 10 years people are stretching this game to the absolute limits and personally I think that's OK.
 
NobleZarkon said:
Just a quick response then we can move on - in the base game you have to do tedious micro management to avoid losing shields, so I think it was a good choice by the BUFFY developers. After 10 years people are stretching this game to the absolute limits and personally I think that's OK.
Click to expand...

Yea, I think it's a great feature of the game. The player deserves those hammers converted to gold instead of disappearing. It takes skill and planning to generate them. You can't get that much gold from this. It's not even as good as missionary fail gold. Anyway, I won't use it a whole lot more this game, and I've hardly ever used it in 10 years. This is the most extreme I've ever worked it.
 
WastinTime said:
Yea, I think it's a great feature of the game. The player deserves those hammers converted to gold instead of disappearing. It takes skill and planning to generate them.
Click to expand...
If you're envisioning having to go several turns at 0% slider, then that's conceivably already an point of improvement in terms of planning.
 
It's not like you're getting something for nothing. You still lose the pop and you still have the whip anger... you simply get the hammers that were coming to you anyway in the form of gold. Plus, most people say that 1H > 1G so by that token the player is getting less than they deserve.

Anyway, back to the game. ;)
 
LowtherCastle said:
If you're envisioning having to go several turns at 0% slider, then that's conceivably already an point of improvement in terms of planning.
Click to expand...

conceivably.
You're certainly getting the spirit of what I'm trying to do: run 100% research. all. game. long. But at the same time try to keep (one of your favorite sayings) 'the pedal to the metal'. I could keep 100% research if I held back a bit on expansion. So the question is: in this early stage of the game, can wealth generation keep up with massive REX...or do you just have to accept the fact that you need a few turns at 0%. I've already had several.

Here's another way to answer. Sometimes it's more important that you get to a tech 1 turn sooner and/or keep your bpt up. To do that, you need to leave your population working tiles like my farmedWine, lakes, and even just coastal tiles. If you whip all that away for wealth just to keep your research at 100%, you might look like a superstar, but you just whipped away 10-20 bpt.
In the game, I'm currently struggling with whether Hamburg should whip for wealth or just keep working the farmedWine and maybe even work the unimprovedWine too.

If I run the whole game at 50% research, but I get to corporations turn 275, that's the real success indicator.

Sheesh, that was a longer answer that I thought I was typing.
 
Sorry there hasn't been much action lately. It's not that I don't have the time. I keep changing my plans. I had decided not to whip Hamburg's wine, etc. Now I'm planning to whip it again. Not just for the wealth, but I also get a mini-army.
I'm now leaning towards sending what I have straight to Justin, and get Berlin with the mini-army. I hate to delay the Berlin $$, but it's better than delaying the steady stream of money I can get from Justin by about 8 turns.
 
OK, I'm ready to play on. I finally decided: Next Attack: Berlin? or Justinian?
Answer: Both :cool: My superMedic (free upgrade to Axe) has 2 movement and can do Berlin first, then catch up to the Justin army.

doesn't necessarily mean I'll have a report today. We'll see.
 
WastinTime said:
OK, I'm ready to play on. I finally decided: Next Attack: Berlin? or Justinian?
Answer: Both :cool: My superMedic (free upgrade to Axe) has 2 movement and can do Berlin first, then catch up to the Justin army.

doesn't necessarily mean I'll have a report today. We'll see.
Click to expand...
Bertha beats Berlin?
 
MarbleStart Turnset T89-T94

(I was this far 3 days ago when I stopped to plan the future.)

I had just captured Orleans:



That's going to be a good city...some day.
Today, it's costing me -6gpt just sitting there in revolt. Once out of that, it will cost more maintenance and only bring 1gpt. 2 when I get a road there, so probably 8-9 gpt loss. It also only has one forest, so it will take a while to get a Terrace.

:devil: Hot Tip: I love giving away cities in the early game. So far, I haven't had one that I wanted to give up. Lots of options here.

1) :devil: One of my favorite things to do is gift it to a far away AI. This will
a) cause them to road towards you,
b) deliver workers to your doorstep,
c) cripple their research (which isn't always a good thing),
d) send defenders out for ambush,
e) often give you a foreign trade rt. I'm leaning towards a different option.
f) I'm sure there's more

2) The city will be good some day, so I don't want to give it away for long. I also don't want the AI to have time to build an archer or grow to whip one.
2a) give it to Washington. He doesn't have slavery. :think: but I'm not planning to attack him soon and with the Pig, he'll grow about 12 turns from now. Could be in slavery by then
2b) Pillage the pig with my 2-movement medic, then gift it. That should give me about 22 turns before the city grows. But I want that Pig...some day.
2c) Better idea: Give it to Fred. I'll DoW Fred in about 5 turns. If he sends a defender from Berlin, I can ambush it and that's one less unit in Berlin. I can park a unit on the Pig instead of pillage to buy more time before it grows. When it's size 2, I capture and then consider keeping or gifting it to Wash.

:devil: Tip: When Orleans grows, you always get to see the city at size 2. The AI cannot whip it so fast that you miss your opportunity.
 
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Ok, this is once again some wholly different game from what I'm playing. Thanks a lot for sharing it with us!

So you capture a lot of cities really fast...and then you give them away. And then you capture them again. And give them away again. Do you really have so few losses in Quechuas that you can afford to fight those defenders over and over again?

And: Are you worried about an AI getting Oracle before you do? It seems if that happens your economy is pretty much screwed.
 
georgjorge said:
So you capture a lot of cities really fast...and then you give them away. And then you capture them again. And give them away again. Do you really have so few losses in Quechuas that you can afford to fight those defenders over and over again?

And: Are you worried about an AI getting Oracle before you do? It seems if that happens your economy is pretty much screwed.
Click to expand...

As explained above, I don't let the AI build or whip a defender in this case.
If it's not a hill city then I can leave it for the AI much longer and get it with HorseArchers or elephants.

Oracle can go early, but it's rare. You're usually safe until around T150 without any effort. I, however, am putting a lot of effort into safeguarding the Oracle. First off, I didn't play religious AI. Hindu/Budda went pretty late. I don't expect anyone else to bother with Poly/Medi. The two AI that got Poly/Medi are Justin and Willy. I doubt either has Priesthood yet. Neither has Marble. Both currently have only archers, and I could attack them if they make much progress on the Oracle.

I really don't want to touch Willy because of trade routes. I'll just have to keep an eye on his cities. I hope being stuck in the jungle hurts his ability to do Oracle.
 
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