The most needless civs

Pounder · May 24, 2004

Gogf said:
Are you crazy!? The United States is the world's sole superpower and you call it uselses?

America is only an empire that is a couple hundred years old. They are a splinter of the British Empire. They have stood on the shoulders of other greater more impressive Civilizations.

Lusikka755 · May 24, 2004

Pounder said:
America is only an empire that is a couple hundred years old. They are a splinter of the British Empire. They have stood on the shoulders of other greater more impressive Civilizations.

But isn't Civ 3 a game about world history? And the last 200 years are part of it. And USA has been a superpower at least last 100 years, you can't deny that, can you?

Mongoloid Cow · May 24, 2004

keiselhorn said:
That's right, but the Scythians (and also the nomad Huns and Mongols) interacted much more with real civilizations and had much more impact in history. The Iroquois were an aboriginal tribe that started to attempt to form a state organisation before being defeated, reduced and finally destroyed by the American colonisers.

But I agree to the respect that the Scythians were also far from civhood.

The Scythians had hundreds of cities, but not in the modern sense... they were just one street stretching for miles in a straight line. They also had a tribal confederacy which was ruled by the kings (and sometimes queens) of the Royal Scythes at their capital of Tanais. Following disastrous wars, the Scythians then divided. You are probably thinking of the Sacae - different enough to be given a different name but similar enough to cause confusion.

Pounder · May 24, 2004

Lusikka755 said:
But isn't Civ 3 a game about world history? And the last 200 years are part of it. And USA has been a superpower at least last 100 years, you can't deny that, can you?

The Americans are a superpower economicly and militarily, 200 years to me is insignificant.

There are many empires that lasted much longer that had great militaries, like the Assyrians for one (why aren't they in the game). I would sooner add more ancient Civ's.

I realize that it is fun to play with the current world powers like the Americans and probably the largest population playing the game are Americans, and that is why they are in the game.

Why not bring in Brazil and Mexico and forget about the Inca, Maya and Aztecs :rolleyes:

. Brazil is the 5th largest country in the world and Mexico is the 11th, while Spain is the 29th largest and Portugal is the 79th largest. Going by current size is meanless to me.

Historical contribution is what counts to me. Americans have settled nowhere, it was the English, French, Spanish, Portugese and Dutch who colonized/pillaged the Americas for the most part. America is a product of a British Civil War.

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 24, 2004

The USA have given us Mass production, the Atom Bomb, conquered the Moon, reached Mars and explored the edges of our Solar systems- ain't that historical enough? You can argue that the importan nation states have contributed more in shorter time than previous empires in the preceeding millenia. Some civilizations proper haven't contributed almost anything to our way of life too; their ways just didn't fit (think American Natives). That's why there are so many European civs in the game (although Skandinavia has never really gotten to explain itself)

I mean- I know where U R comming from

: Just too bad Civ3 doesn't allow any simulation to create new civs in game sessions or to allow splitting of colonies to found new ones. Or to allow a civ to evolve into another one- i.e. Native American Tribe becomes/Joins the USA...

bogdanSUPERIUS · May 24, 2004

The Last Conformist said:
That's like renaming the Americans into Californians, so as to include Canada.

I'm sorry, my stupid mistake!! :blush:

But did you forgot something :confused:

, please and read message #52.. You see.. :eek:

Good

Your suggestions..

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 24, 2004

Right- Bogdan, Britain works better than Germany in this idea of yours- although the English are of Germanic/Danish/Norse Origin, while the Welsh (Bretons), the Irish and Scots are Celtic!

To Germany (excluding their Skandinavian and Franko-phonic Brothers) you can add Holland, Parts of Belgium, German Switzerland, Austria, Alsace Lorraine and,the southern tip of Denmark and even (historically/geografically at least) Eastern Prussia and Silessia and Poznan (today Poland)- do not include Hungary though- the Hungarians are NOT Germans and have never been included as parts of such union (Austria-Hungary was merely the Austrian (earlier "German") Emperor being at the same time King of Hungary). Hungarians (Magyar) descend of the Huns!

durfal · May 24, 2004

These threads are most of the time turning into a frenzy of nationalism and reasoning of untruths (not all the time offcourse

).
If one would say I drop the Dutch and choose for the Idon'tcarewho I wouldn't mind because it's everybody choice to put in or out a civ of his or her pleasing.
But please don't say the Dutch are Germans or the Portuguese are Spanish and so on. You hurt peoples feelings and get furious reactions (personaly I'm more disappointed

).
Furthermore I don't play on real worldmaps so I don't put in let's say the Siberians because they fit in nicely on the worldmap (that's my choice).
I choose my civs with the following in mind: the diversity of civs, personal preferances, historical interest and if there is a good animated leaderhead available :lol:

that I could use.

So these are my choices (like everybody has his or her own):
I dropped: The Americans, The Hittites, The Sumerians, The Carthegians and the Byzantines.
I added: The Mali, The Ethiopians, The Hebrew, The Khmer and The Polynesians.

I reshuffeled (and added) also some leaderheads and UU's around to my liking.
Everybody enjoy playing your own mod :goodjob:

.

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 24, 2004

I said the Dutch are Germanic (not German), and I called the joint Portugese-Spanish civ the "Iberians" - I always see to it to being politically correct

where it doesn't seem like it that must be a typo

btw- I am firstly going after the question of civilization (i.e. is it really one by itself or part of another)- then follow questions of nation (i.e. ethnically, culturally, historically), finally the question of statehood (i.e. Austria would be part of the Germanic civilization; ethnically it is more diverse than the main German neighbour, culturally very much similar to it, historically extremely closely knit to other German lands, yet with high % of Slavic and Italic influence; Austria is a separate Souvereign State with its own and still evolving National -as in national territory- not as is nation- Identity.

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 24, 2004

You dropped Carthage :eek:

why oh why !?!?!

bogdanSUPERIUS · May 25, 2004

durfal said:
These threads are most of the time turning into a frenzy of nationalism and reasoning of untruths (not all the time offcourse ).
If one would say I drop the Dutch and choose for the Idon'tcarewho I wouldn't mind because it's everybody choice to put in or out a civ of his or her pleasing.
But please don't say the Dutch are Germans or the Portuguese are Spanish and so on. You hurt peoples feelings and get furious reactions (personaly I'm more disappointed ).
Furthermore I don't play on real worldmaps so I don't put in let's say the Siberians because they fit in nicely on the worldmap (that's my choice).
I choose my civs with the following in mind: the diversity of civs, personal preferances, historical interest and if there is a good animated leaderhead available that I could use.

W.i.n.t.e.r is right about nobody said that Dutch are Germans(or Portuguese are Spanish) but Dutch are Germanic and Portuguese&Spanish were Iberia/Iberian Kingdoms.. Like Ukrainians(thats I'm also) aren't Russians but Slavs.. And of course everyone makes mistakes so.. :blush:

Now I think that I'll just drop The Celts.. I didn't meen that Hungary are part of Germany it just :confused:

, I tryed to create some kind giantic civ which consist of many nations but.. :confused:

In this days there are many hundred countrys but should they all been added to game? Actually I would like to do it, but it's not possible so I try to add as many different civs as possible.. Sometimes(?) this aim make me to suggest some crazy :crazyeye:

ideas.. But don't blame me, I'm just a human.. :lol:

to drop:
1.Celts
2.Korea
3.Byzantines
4.Dutch&Germany=>Germania (so as to include Switzerland, Austria, Alsace Lorraine and,the southern tip of Denmark and even (historically/geografically at least) Eastern Prussia and Silessia and Poznan)
5.Portugal&Spain=> Iberian Kingdoms (King García I ?)
6.Sumerians&Babylon=> Mesopotamia/Assyria

Add:
1.Ethiopia/Abyssinia
2.Mauritania
3.Polynesia
4.Khmer/Thais
5.Indonesia/Malaysia/?

Some suggestons..

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 25, 2004

actually after WWII one Allied Plan foresaw splitting Germany in three parts: Northern-Eastern Germany (i.e. Mainland Prussia) Northern-West and Central Germany, and Southern Germany (i.e. Bavaria, Austria- and Hungary :lol:

) so you could say your idea is based on highest level Allied political planning

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 25, 2004

Question: I anyone (i.e. me) would make a Pazific civilization (i.e. Indonesian, Polynesian, Malay and Austral) what would be a proper name for it- and for the Capital - even more important: Where would such a civ have its capital ??

bogdanSUPERIUS · May 25, 2004

W.i.n.t.e.r said:
actually after WWII one Allied Plan foresaw splitting Germany in three parts: Northern-Eastern Germany (i.e. Mainland Prussia) Northern-West and Central Germany, and Southern Germany (i.e. Bavaria, Austria- and Hungary ) so you could say your idea is based on highest level Allied political planning

Oh, yes.. Of course I meen exactly that :mischief:

.. I planed, as you sow

, to add Indonesia/Malaysia but Malay sounds to be better idea.. But I think to add also Polynesia :confused:

hmm.. Should I drop one or the other?

Lusikka755 · May 25, 2004

W.i.n.t.e.r said:
Question: I anyone (i.e. me) would make a Pazific civilization (i.e. Indonesian, Polynesian, Malay and Austral) what would be a proper name for it- and for the Capital - even more important: Where would such a civ have its capital ??

I think Polynesia would be the best, because they had advanced seafaring well before the Europeans. About the capital - I don't know... It's not really practical on a little island in the middle of the sea. And about the name... I think I have somewhere a Finnish science magazine article about the polynesians, I'll try to find it. I'll be back

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 25, 2004

Well Oceania would be the general term to comprise all inhabitants of (again generally itemized) Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia (includes Australia and formally New Zeeland) basically everything between the American continent, Australia and the Phillippines. Indonesia is its own civilisation as Malaya is (to a lesser extend- as it has been influenced culturally and ethnically by indonesia whiloe itself having influenced the phillippino people) considered one...

So perhaps Indonesia/Malaysia and/or Oceania ??

Lusikka755 · May 25, 2004

I've found the article. Based on that, I would say, that Polynesia deserves its own civ: Look at this map below (unfotunately it is in Finnish, but maybe you can under stand it

) and see how they had settled the whole pacific Ocean from 200 BC to 1000 AD when European had no clue about Oceanfaring. They navigated without compasses with help of stars, clouds, birds and waves. They even could feel the ocean currents by putting their testicles to water from theis catamarans :eek:

. So don't they deserve an own civ already because of that

?

Here's the map: saaret=islands, Pääsiäissaari=Easter Island

bogdanSUPERIUS · May 25, 2004

W.i.n.t.e.r said:
Well Oceania would be the general term to comprise all inhabitants of (again generally itemized) Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia (includes Australia and formally New Zeeland) basically everything between the American continent, Australia and the Phillippines. Indonesia is its own civilisation as Malaya is (to a lesser extend- as it has been influenced culturally and ethnically by indonesia whiloe itself having influenced the phillippino people) considered one...

So perhaps Indonesia/Malaysia and/or Oceania ??

W.i.n.t.e.r.. Oceania sounds good

.. Khmer or Thais :confused:

.. Khmer had great civ for few hundred years (at least) but Khmer was beaten by Thais.. :confused:

deo · May 25, 2004

The most needles civs hmmmm...
America - The most powerful nation should be removed because it's a part of the English civ
Hittites
Dutch and
For those who said to remove the ottomans: The ottomans should be renamed to Turks because they are a part of the Turkish civ. Removing the ottomans it's impossible because the are one of the greatest civs. If Suleiman the great didn't die the ottomans could conquer AUSTRIA or THE HASBURG EMPIRE

W.i.n.t.e.r · May 25, 2004

I called the thingy Cambodia- the Khmer had control over large parts of Thai lands and people for a long time- I have also included Laos, and Vietnam within this civs

The most needless civs

Phaethon was here

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Great Khan

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Frozen!

Go Philly Go

Frozen!

The Dutch Daredevil

Frozen!

Frozen!

Go Philly Go

Frozen!

Frozen!

Go Philly Go

Tired

Frozen!

Tired

Attachments

Go Philly Go

Emperor

Frozen!

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