Classic GOTM 32 Spoiler 1: End of ancient age

Excellent post, and welcome to the forum, Bonsai!



The old block-the-settler strategy - well done! It is funny when they declare war when you have all those troops there.

Wow - 2 MGL's. I found the wonders hard to resist when I finally got a MGL.

Excellent bit of conquest - beats my campaign by far.

BTW, you do get a rep hit from making demands, if anyone lives to tell the tale.

I am playing first GOTM as an individual. I said individual because I also paying SGOTM as a member of a Team. I never played level above than warlord. Even warlod game not finished left in mid game. So new to Monarch, new to GOTM.

I believe I started pretty well. Early trades with Iraqous, Lincon was little rude in doing trades or I would say hard to trade. Started war against America in late BC's captured 2, razed one city, captured 3 workers. Then signed peace treaty to finish them in next war.

While exploring found two bttelneck in continent, build cities near by both bottelneck. So this stopped Iraqous to expand much. They got irritated, they had settler to build the city but short of land. So entered in my border I asked them to withdraw, they went back. BUT and it's new for me....Settler with warrior build Iraqous new city just in the next tile of my border and that way they got my 2 tiles land. I was under the impression it's not feasible. Any thoughts on this?

Finally they declared war on me, I razed their 1 city captured 2 or 3 of their workers. Killed some of their unit, they killed couple of mine. Signed the peace treaty, next few turns moved couple of my units to I raqous border. Declare war against them razed their city ( the one which was the same city they build next to my border). Killed some of their unit, they killed couple of mine. I kept my units most of the time near by my border only. Because Iraqous outnumber mine military. Signed peace treaty again build some temples. Iraqous were very frustated they had 5 settler but no way to cross the bottelneck to build new cities. They don't had option other than declaring war again. Killed their 5-6 units and captured 5 of their settlers (converted 10 workers), moved them far from border to clear the jungle. They have 14 units (swordsman, mounted horseman, archers) near my border to attack on me and I have 9 units to stop them 1 or 2 wounded. Stopped game at this point.

End of year 520AD. I entered in MA around 320AD. Score wise I am second after Iraqous and before America. Land area wise first. Still lots of land left for me to build new cities. Mean time also involed with barbarian attack in two different side of borders. I know there are couple more civs. but didn't find one, difficult to find them with galley. I don't know yet how far they are from my continent.

Not bad for a warlord player!

I'm suprised they plunked down a city next to yours - I though I was the only one that did that!

I think the initial radius has something to do with civ culture. Usually when I do that I do not get the land next to their city.

Be sure to protect those elites and get a MGL for your troubles.

Thank you Alamo.

alamo said:

BTW, you do get a rep hit from making demands, if anyone lives to tell the tale.

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To ask some techs or cities give you a bad reputation with others civs too ? I have never thought about that ...

I was afraid not to destroy Americans and Iroquois before they meet an other civilization. But fortunately the other civilizations were to far and will never hear the horrible stories of their torments. For the civilizations of the other continents, Aztecs will appear as a peaceful civilization before they meet our soldiers

alamo said:

Not bad for a warlord player!

I'm suprised they plunked down a city next to yours - I though I was the only one that did that!

I think the initial radius has something to do with civ culture. Usually when I do that I do not get the land next to their city.

Be sure to protect those elites and get a MGL for your troubles.

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Thanks Alamo, but how to get MGL (I believe it's Great Leader) from elites, I have 4-5 elite units.

maharaja said:

Thanks Alamo, but how to get MGL (I believe it's Great Leader) from elites, I have 4-5 elite units.

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Keep killing units with elites and eventually you will get a GL. Attack the strong units with veterans (some will get promoted) and use the elites for the easy kills.

Bonsaï said:

950 AC

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question here. What does the AC stand for?

After Christ?

Gotm32 1.27f Predator

Plan for 100k culture, this would be my first culture win at any level. Based on what I read (from various recent culture wins) I will not worry about early culture just early expansion towards the dom limit (but not too close, don't want to go over) and then start crazy rushing of culture improvements and build cities in every space with more and more improvements. So the early part of this game, would be just like any other, the next spoiler will be where things get interesting from a culture perspective.

4000BC Send worker to the mountain, settler south, then NE, settle on that spot. No bonuses that I can see.

3900BC Found Tenochtitlan, east of start position.

Start on Myst at max, although playing Predator don't expect the AI to research too much so should get good trades for this. Oh, with no bonus decide not to go for Pottery, hope I don' t regret that.

3550BC Meet America and get Pottery and 10 gold for Warrior code

3400BC Border expands and we see grassland wheat, will build a settler asap and irrigate that wheat, build granary, then settler factory etc.

3250BC Meet Iro who have BW, and Masonry. America have the same, no Jag rush here thank you.

See game above wheat so we will get a reasonable settler factory, needs a bit of work mind.

3150BC First hut gives barbs

3000BC Second hut, deserted

2800BC First Settler. Decide to build a temple now, might just as well, don't really want any more Jags right now, and can't build another settler in Tenochtitlan yet. In hindsite this was a total waste, what it gave me a few hundred culture points for the game, that made no difference for my end date, absolutely none at all, and if it would have it would have changed it by one turn.

More on that in the next few spoilers.

2750BC Research Myst, Get BW, Masonry and 10 gold from Iro. America have nothing to offer now
Poly at 10%

2670BC Trade assist tells us that there is a new tech out and that both Iro and America have 2 workers available. Hut gives us wheel. Iro got the wheel this same turn. America trade her two workers for wheel and Myst (bargain).

2630BC Teothiucan settled, although out of range of wheat right now, hmmm, I wanted RCP 5 and that is the only way I could get it, gave me more cities. Tenoctitlan should culture grow in about 15 turns to bring it in. I think that is worth it, well maybe not, I'm too obsessed with RCP positions.

2550BC Iro pick a hut off our Jag's nose, and they suddenly have HBR, that was mine, damn those Iro, they will not live to regret that.

2510BC Buy worker from Iro

2350BC Hut gives us HBR too????????? sell it to America for 25 Gold

2270BC America get Iron Working, tech pace is kicking along
1650BC America has Alphabet

1600BC Both Main cities complete granary, now to settlers. Certainly would have more cities at 1000BC if I had skipped the granary at Tenochtitlan

1375BC Research Poly, get IW, Alphabet + 107 Gold from Iro. Gift it to America to keep them researching something useful. Writing in 22

Didn't realise that you got 3 food from the fish, didn't need to cut and irrigate deer, would have been better to leave it as it was.

1325BC Tetelolco founded

1300BC Iro get writing and they have not met the Americans yet? Buy Writing for 100 Gold and contact.

1250BC Texcoco founded, buy another worker from America
1150BC Taxcala founded
1075BC Calixtlahuaca founded

1000BC Maths researched, get 175 gold for it (all their gold)

6 Cities (not going to win any medals for that), 16 pop, 384 Gold, techs, all level 1, and 2, + HBR + Poly
8 Jags, 3 Horses, 2 workers and a settler. 2 Granaries, a Barracks and a Temple.



900BC Iro get MM, but wont trade it

825BC America come with suspicious intent, we ask their two warriors to leave and they declare war. Only do this if you are prepared to fight it out, I was and I was happy for them to declare on me. With a number of horses waiting I wipe them out and get a second elite horse. This war may be good.

775BC Iro build Oracle

650BC Research Currency, from Iro get WM, MM, + 53 gold

570BC Destroy Boston, it would not grow, America appear to have Iron, so can't wait for them to grow,

IBT I pillage their iron

370BC Destroy Seattle, they kept popping the citizens, it was size 3 for a while

America will only give chicago, decide to capture washington, only size 2, no hill/mountains, we have 6 horses.

Iro get Construction, we get Code of Laws. They give us 150 gold for it.

270BC Washington is captured
They still will only give Chicago. In despotism, no real reason to stop fighting them, they pose no threat and give our elite horses, leader opportunities.

30BC Reduce their new capital to one spear. Barbs are very annoying. Research Republic and trade for construction and monarchy and enter MA.

Mauer said:

question here. What does the AC stand for?

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I made a mistake. Indeed it was AD and not AC.

A little bit of culture for those which aim at a cultural victory (It is not my case; my Aztecs are only thinking of wars thus AC / AD they don't know the difference !). In french we write:
"av. JC" (avant Jésus-Christ, so before) stands for BC
"ap. JC" (après Jésus-Christ, so after) stands for AD.

It's more logical than
BC: Before Christ
AD: Anni Domini (nostri Jesu Christi)

PTW-Open

Just wanted to share a unique( to me) experience:

After a long war with America and a shorter one with the Iroquois a town captured from the Iroquois, surrounded by towns built by the Aztecs, containing a temple and library and garrisoned with two swords, and not sharing any tiles with the Iroquois, culture flipped back to the Iro!!

Never seen that before and never when the culture curve is twice the size of the flipped to nation.

Open. My first GOTM, but I got the bug from COTM1, so dived in.

I was disappointed, as many, to find the game and wheat just out of reach of my capital. My initial plan was to build Jags, go exploring, and see who I could beat up. As we shall see, I executed this plan, but it took a long, long, time and crippled the continent.

So we go back, way back, to 4000BC.

Part 1 - 4000BC to 1000BC:

4000BC: I'm not founding on a BG surrounded by rivers. So I move my Settler S, because I can see dyes in a forest in that direction.
3950BC: Found Tenoc, and spot the Wheat & Game :-( City 2 will go there eventually.
3500BC: Contact with America, WC traded for Pottery+10g.
3250BC: Contact with Iroquois. They already have Pottery! I don't think they can have met the Americans so they must've popped it from a hut :-( Buy BW for 59g.
2670BC: Finally, I come across a Goody Hut. My first sign of Barb activity - if I hadn't known better, I'd have said there weren't any out there up until this moment! I pop it for... 25g :-(
2630BC: Buy Masonry from America for CB+69g+1gpt, sell to Iroquois for 16g. A poor trade, really, but I've gone down a minimum-research route. Again, another poor decision, that really hurt us.
2590BC: Goody Hut - Barbs :-(
2430BC: A Vet Jag loses 4-0 to a Barb in a plains v plains fight! The start of a poor run of luck fighting Barbs, which did cost me a lot of money, time, and units! Teoti founded.
1990BC: Myst from Lincoln for 77g+4gpt. Sell to Hiawatha for 28g.
1675BC: Found Tlat. Yes, you're reading right, I had only 3 cities by this time. Not the start I was wanting, and I messed up plenty more.
1575BC: Buy Horeback from America for 83g.
1375BC: Goody Hut (my last one!) - 50g :-( uy IW from Iroquois for 74g, and discover I have damn all Iron. I have horses - but so do the Iroquois, which I'm not happy about. War with them will be coming second, once I have Knights.
1150BC: Jags move into place about Washington & Atlanta to attack America.
1125BC: IBT DoW with America after he challenges me. He loses a Warrior and triggers my GA. 4 Jags take down the spears in Washington, and it's mine.
1050BC: Barbs start appearing everywhere, and they'll be a thorn in my side for over 1500 years. I have more trouble from Barbs than I do from Lincoln (apart from his sneaky way of always getting a Settler out from under my nose!) Buy Poly for 187g from Hiawatha.
1025BC: Destroy Atlanta (auto-raze).
1000BC: Peace with America for 116g, Worker. My biggest single mistake of the game: I didn't ask for a City. I'm certain that if I had, America wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as they did, I'd have got to MA a lot sooner, and would probably already have inroads into the Iroquois.

My 1000BC position:

I have:
4 cities (including Washington) :-(, 2 settlers in one/two turns respectively, 3 workers, 1 archer, 15 Jags , 177g, BW, IW, Mas, Pot, Whl, HbR, CB, Myst, Poly, Alpha in 25 @ 10%, Horses, 3 dyes. Iro: 211, Amer: 170, Azt: 150.
A very poor start.

Neil.

Open

Part 2: 1000BC-AD880 (start of MA):

875BC: Unescorted Settler killed by Barbs coming out of FoW. Major annoyance as it was heading towards Iroquois territory and dyes. Another mistake that I'm bound to regret is not settling by the Horses that Hiawatha has. As I'll be heading up a two-pronged attack on him, my main force will be out to cut of his horses.
850BC: Texcoco founded, in the ruins of Atlanta.
800BC: DoW vs America. New York (and its Iron!) captured. My Jags are having a hard time against the Barbs. It's my first full Monarch game, and that 50% loss of combat bonus is hurting.
775BC: Civ4 completes The Oracle. Iroquois switch to Pyramids.
730BC: Pay 31g tribute to Hiawatha.
710BC: Boston destroyed (auto-raze).
690BC: Peace with America, for Philadelphia.
650BC: End of GA.
590BC: Buy Writing for 289g from Hiawatha.
490BC: Civ5 completes the Pyramids :-( Was hoping Hiawatha would build it for me. We ended the AA with no Wonders on the continent - it's going to be tough.
470BC: Founded Tlaxcala & Calix.
430BC: Established Embassies with America & Iroquois.
370BC: Founded Xochi.
230BC: DoW vs America. Chicago captured.
210BC: Buy Maths & Maps from Hiawatha for 325g.
190BC: Tlacopan founded. San Fancisco destroyed - I'd been following the Spear/Settler pair with a Sword waiting for them to found a city. They settled next to a hill, no worries for my Sword
170BC: Civ5 completes Colossus. Civ4 also built the Great Library at some point as well.
50BC: America capture Calix! Finish and immediately switch to Monarchy.
50AD: Seattle captured.
70AD: Tribute of Territory Map+35g to Hiawatha.
130AD: Miami destroyed (auto-raze), Calix re-captured, Atzcap founded next to the ruins of Miami.
150AD: Barb uprisings have caught me out in Chicago - only a single Jag for defence
170AD: Sign peace with America for 32g, worker, World Map. I need to deal with these Barbs.
270AD: Founded Tzintz.
290AD: DoW vs. America.
300AD: Jump Palace to Washington. No Settler from Tenoc Buffalo destroyed (auto-raze).
330AD: Re-founded Tenoc with a Settler rushed from Teoti.
400AD: Civ6 builds Great Wall.
420AD: Civ5 builds Hanging Gardens. No MA wonders left for me to go after, means I have to dump 150+ shields from Washington and build a Granary :-(
510AD: Civ5 builds Great Lighthouse. Found Tamuin.
570AD: Buy Philospohy from Hiawatha for 195g+World Map.
590AD: Founded Teayo.
600AD: Civ7 Destroyed.
620AD: Capture Houston and after over 1700 years, the Americans have finally gone. Still plenty of land around to capture, and I have choke points controlled blocking Hiawatha's land access to it.
640AD: Founded Cempoala & Chalco. Trade Dyes+45g+World Map for Spices from Hiawatha.
730AD: Buy CoL from Hiawatha for 195g+World Map.
760AD: Founded Tlalman.
770AD: Civ4 completes AoW Just how far behind are we if the other continent are already MA and have build AoW?!
780AD: Suicide Galley sinks, in the first Sea square is enters.
800AD: Founded Ixtap.
850AD: Trade Dyes+45g+World Map for Spices from Hiawatha. Founded Huexotla.
880AD: Completed Currency and started MA. A long slog.

A too-long war against America, and I should have engaged the Iroquois early on, before they could've linked up horses. There's another continent out there, and I only have 1 Galley - and it's on the wrong side of my continent to try another suicide run! The only good news is, I'm #1 for land area, having grabbed pretty much everything south of the two choke points. I'm building Horses in between improvements. I've had NO GLs from my Elite wins, but they weren't managed awfully well.

880AD position, start of MA (I've gone back to research Lit, as nobody seems to have bothered on my continent - explains the slow research rate, I guess):


The plan:
Build Horses, research Chiv as quick as poss, upgrade, then go after Hiawatha with Knights & Swords. Build suicide galleys to try and find the others before Hiawatha can tell them about my 'dealings' with Lincoln. Play catch-up!

Neil.

Bede said:

After a long war with America and a shorter one with the Iroquois a town captured from the Iroquois, surrounded by towns built by the Aztecs, containing a temple and library and garrisoned with two swords, and not sharing any tiles with the Iroquois, culture flipped back to the Iro!!

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Ouch, that's a painful one! I've had a similar event once and it hurt enough that I still remember it. I think that each foreign citizen in a city creates a small possibility of flipping each turn. The other factors you mention reduce that possibility but I think it always remains non-zero as long as there's a foreign citizen and that Civ hasn't been wiped out.

Open PTW 1.27f

Finally found some time late this week to give this a quick go. Don't know if I'll finish but I can always us the practice

I move the Settler SW to towards the dyes and let the worker mine in place. I then built 2 Jag Warriors (was very tempted to try a boogaboo quick win but found some self control ) and then built a temple as a prebuild for a granery (researched pottery @ 100%). Luckily, I had the wheat within the city limits so the granery worked well. the granery was finished in 2900BC and Teno started building settlers. 1st settler built in 2550BC and Teot was founded the next turn S of the game to the west. After a worker and a JW, Teot also started building a granery in 1990BC (finished 1350BC)

Met the Americans in 3500BC and the Iroquois in 3100BC. In a direct opposite strategy to CoTM1, I traded with my neighbors a lot, sometimes getting little value in return for a tech but realizing that I was keeping them from studying something I already knew.

By 1000BC, I had 11 towns, 1 settler, 5 workers, 9 JW's, and 2 graneries. Culturally challenged but expanding nicely. As for tech's, I was researching currency, waiting for the AI to get Philo, CoL, or MM. I had horses (obviously) secured as well as iron (jungle to the west). 1 GH produced Myst and I traded for Mas, BW, IW, Wheel, and HBR.

By 210BC, I enterd the middle ages with about 18 towns and 4 settlers about to found. Further tech trading netted MM and Construction.

My 1 lone suicide galley sunk 1T from reaching the New World. Hopefully, my next junk will do better On a plus note, the Iroquois built the Pyramids for me.

My plan is to keep researching core tech's, allowing the AI to research a gov't for me. Being religous, I'll buy the 1st gov't that comes along and revolt to it. If the AI researches something better later, I'll just buy it and revolt again. Being religous has it's advantages

hi!

i ended up expanding southward and skirmishing with the americans fairly early, couldn't really keep up with settling all the land though!

did build a road quickly to the first iron I spotted, it however run out just as I was about to use it!!! so most of the battle with the americans was with horsies. had a chance to wipe out the americans entirely but failed.

am preparing for a war with the iroqouis at them moment. Did contemplate giving up for a while, the barbarians are really annoying..

attached a picture of my 1000bc standings. its also got the wee map embedded as it stands now, 390ad, the year i reached spoiler 1 criteria.

cheers,
john

I did two mistakes till now: first I discovered civ. in another continent before I distroyed America and Iraqous. Second after winning two war I didn't settle quikly in empty lands. I though no one will so let's do some improvements. Result of mistake one now all other civs. annoyed with me.

Moderator Action: The rest of this post relates to events and civs that would only appear in the Middle Ages.
Check the civiopedia for the details of when and how to travel safely further overseas.

maharaja said:

My problem is whenever I send caraval to other continent, it sank in water. How can I start building Galleon? Is it safe? <snip> I I want to go to another continent, don't know how to do with those ready-to-sink caraval.

Stopped game at the 1445AD.

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I'd encourage you to continue your game, just for the learning experience if for no other reason. If you have caravels, then you may not be too far from Magnetism which is when you get Galleons.

Since this is the AA spoiler I don't want to give too much info about the MA. But if you are not going to submit your game you can learn more about crossing in the MA spoiler, specifically this post.

Good luck.

Thanks DGMGator13, will do same, if not Domination I can try for Histrographic

Bede said:

After a long war with America and a shorter one with the Iroquois a town captured from the Iroquois, surrounded by towns built by the Aztecs, containing a temple and library and garrisoned with two swords, and not sharing any tiles with the Iroquois, culture flipped back to the Iro!!

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I usually starve down the population for this exact reason. You can hurry workers or settlers, too.

The town is not very productive for awhile as it regrows, but tends to be much more loyal.