Conquest 03, Spoiler 2; entering the industrial age

This was my first GOTM game and this is my first post. I managed to survive until the industrial age, where I got whooped! I guess I was too intimidated about the difficulty level . I stayed alive by being nice to everybody but it was not good enough in the long run. I think I should have destroyed the Indians early on and tried to keep ahead in the tech race. I think if you destroy a civ, the others respect you more.

Psychonaut777 said:

Wow that's some dense city placement.

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I was going for a culture win and buying all the culture improvements, but it didn't work.

Psychonaut777 said:

I think its more than that. they start on an island suitable for 4 cities...

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Yes, it's a horrific starting position.

Spoiler 1 link
Here is my summary. It's nothing to be happy about. Because of a devastating flip I've been forced to change my aim from conquest to space race.

490 BC --- Entered MA and revolted planning to go republic. Got 7 turns, tried again and got the same (I had 6 after the end of the turn). I got Monotheism and traded Engineering from Ottomans. Russia got Monotheism too, and I did not gift Persia into the Middle Ages just yet.
390 BC --- 2 Dutch galleys approach my area. This leaves me two options: allaiance with Netherlands against Persia or vice versa. I have too few troops to be safe against the Dutch, who have Great Lighthouse. Persia, on the other hand, can only reach my area through one passage, and they will be easy prey to my dromons if they try. Although my towns are still too small for a golden age, I can bombard without getting a GA. First, I must of course gift them into the Middle Ages. ... Unfortuately, they get Monotheism. I declare war. But I forgot I can't establish an embassy with Netherlands. And now, Perisa has tidbits to offer for an alliance against me.
370 BC --- Byzantium becomes a republic. No alliance against me - phew. So I ally Netherlands against Persia for Republic and get a RoP. All warriors except 3 disbanded. Two were on a journey for huts (one of them actually came from a hut) and the third is needed to keep the 2-tile island safe. Researching Feudalism with a deficit.
350 BC --- first horseman created.
310 BC --- India and Scandinavia have feudalism. Traded it from Scandinavia for Engineering. I have too few horsemen to upgrade so I choose Invention, 12 turns. It looks like India will get to Chivalry too soon. I decide to try and place a few towns near Northeastern India, for a better initial attack.
250 BC --- Carthage demand Engineering. I refuse and what do you know: they don't declare war.
230 BC --- India and Carthage knows literature.
210 BC --- Literature is widely known. Wars necessary to stifle the tech pace. I declare on Ottomans. Very careless, because I was trading luxuries with them. What's more, my trade route to Carthage was wrecked, so now I have a serious happiness problem. Typical "first round of the day"-mistake. 10% luxuries will now cost me about 15 gpt. Allied with Carthage against Ottomans. Allied with Russians agains Ottomans. Allied with Scandinavia against Persia.
190 --- Traded literature from the Dutch for Engineering.
70 --- India has Chivalry. Woe is me. Researched Invention.
50 --- Chivalry and Theology traded. Researching Gunpowder.
270 --- War on India. 2 towns & 1 city captured. Trade routes destroyed again. Luxury 10-20%
300 --- Dehli captured (Mausoleum, Sun Tzu). Indian golden age starts.
310 --- Goodnight. Dehli flips after just 2 turns. I had 20 knights there out of 22, and most Ancient Cavalry. Peace declared, gaining Chemistry. Long building period ensues with new trade deals.
590 --- Entered the Industrial Age. Got steam. I'm now tech leader with regards to required techs. Building horsemen, meaning both iron and salpeter sources have been self-pillaged.

What should have been done to avoid the flip? I think I can answer that myself. Dehli had Sun Tzu. So if I had brought a settler along with my musketmen and pikemen, I could just have founded a town close to Dehli and let my troops heal there. Elephants were scarce as of yet and I could probably have kept just two cheap units inside Dehli, possibly no units at all. Next time I attack India I will raze a few cities. After their GA the Indians don't look like they will contribute much to the tech pace again, whereas I could use their territory to fit in more cities for my republic.

@Drazek, although some guys can always surprise with incredible victory dates, I think your win will hold up very well. You did well to get that foothold on the Indian soil in the early AA, hampering their growth. Considering that you still had trouble blasting the Indians, I shiver at the the thought of doing it with riflemen on the pitch, as well as those doped veteran elefants. Cheap libraries and new towns have edged me to just two tiles away from Dehli and Bombay, however. So I can hopefully capture those two biggies on the first turn of war.

Randy said:

I was going for a culture win and buying all the culture improvements, but it didn't work.

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I've always had trouble with that too. You need a lot of patience. Closely packed cities are not bad, but perhaps they should have built the cultural imrovements later and the horsemen/warriors first? Some of the towns might be able to reach 10 shields per turn, which is a handy number for horseman/spearman/warrior/swordsman.

If you missed my last turn log, let me set the stage for you: It's 330 BC, and the game is Conquest class. I'm the science leader, but my territory is small. I'm massing troops right now to prepare a war against India. India is currently in anarchy -- I just traded Republic to them -- but their army is bigger than mine. Here's what my empire looks like:



310 -- I move some troops around and send a spearman to the coast SW of Caesarea -- that will be a good spot for a city.

290 -- The Vikings extort Ivory from me. Sardica is founded near Chalcedon and begins a temple.

270 -- Constantinople finishes its settler. I go back to churning out swordsmen. Adrianople finishes its Spearman and begins a marketplace. I finish the road to Trebizond and start the road to Sardica. Meanwhile, Chalcedon has already been roaded to Trebizond and I'm working on roading my horses.

250 -- I move guys around.

230 -- I discover Literature. A lot of people have feudalism, but the best deal I can get is with Hannibal, who gives it to me along with 19 gold in exchange for Monotheism and Engineering. I have a monopoly in literature, so hopefully I can build some libraries and start to squeeze out some of the slower researchers. To facilitate this, I start a library in Caesarea and switch Adrianople to a library as well.

210 -- I build some more roads and mines, and found Naissus near Caesarea

190 -- Adiranople finsihes its library and goes back to churning out medieval infantry. Heraclea -- the staging point for out Indian invasion -- finishes its aquesduct and starts a barracks.

170 -- Constantinople starts a library.

150-50 -- I do some more build-up. In 50 BC, a couple of nations start building Leo's, so I figure they must have Invention. A few countries do, but none want to sell to me. I finishg the barracks in Heraclea and upgrade my attack force (upgrade financed in part by sale of Republic to Dutch).

30BC-30AD -- More war build-up. In 30 AD, I decide to build Knights Templar in Adrianople. If I get beaten to it, I can always switch to the Sistine Chapel or Bach's or Copernicus. I start research on Theology.

50 AD -- Apparently, someone else figured out Literature, because everyone's building the Great Library. India has started the Knights Templar in Jaipur -- a podunk town producing 4 shields per turn deep in the tundra. Interetsting strategy.

70 AD -- A whole mess of other countries start building KT. Did I make the wrong move by going for KT? By not trading Chivalry around when I could get something for it? Oh well -- too late now. I try to goad India into war by telling him to get his warrior out of my territory, but he doesn't bite -- he just withdraws the warrior. So be it -- I declare war on India. India is a Republic, and is still at war with Russia, so I'm hoping he has trouble keeping his empire happy.

90 AD -- Everyone is unhappy. Are you sure there's no war weariness in Monarchy? I decide KT was a bad idea and switch production to a Knight while I can still do that without losing shields. I capture Dacca from the Indians, then I realize my mistake -- all my trade routes go through Indian territory. Oops!!!!!

110 AD -- The Indians are fighting back. I lose a MI and an AC. I wipe out a bunch of their forces, but my F3 advisor still says I have a weak military compared to them.

130 AD -- I lose nothin; the Indians lose 1 MI. My stack of doom moves toward the next Indian city.

150 AD -- The Ottomans start on the Sistine Chapel while I am stil 14 turns from Theology. Since they also have Invention, I take this as a Bad Sign. It's also a bad thing when Russia and India sign a peace treaty. Now the Indians can bring the full weight of their military against me. I kill 2 Indian MI, 1 Indian Longbowman, and 2 Indian Swordsman. Again, I take no casualties, and again, F3 dude is still emabarassed by my weak military.

170 AD -- On India's turn, I lose a pikeman and a knight; he loses 2 longbowmen. On my turn, I kill a swordsman, an archer. an MI, a longbowman, and a pike. It's the Indian sampler! In the process, I lose a knight.

190 -- IBT, I fend off a war elephant, an MI, and a swordsman, killing them all. I lose an AC. I also see two Dutch swordsmen land outside an Indian city; one of them engages in battle with someone and dies. Very interesting -- it looks like India does have a 2 front war after all. On my turn, I throw my forces against the walls of Kohlapur and lose 2 MI, an AC and a Knight. India loses a single pikeman. Not good.

210 -- Moscow builds Sun Tzu's, which causes Delhi to build the Great Library. I lose an AC and an MI on India's turn. On my turn, my trebuchets take out Kohlapur's barracks and temple. I take out a war elephant (losing an AC in the process).

230 -- IBT, I lose an AC and an MI to war elephants. On my turn, I take out Kohlapur's collosseum, knock a pikeman down to 3 HP with my artillery, and force a war elephant to retreat.

250 -- Disaster -- India wipes out my invasion force, capturing 3 trebuchets in the process. I sue for peace, getting 86 gold and 1 GPT in the process. With my traderoutes reopened, I get dyes, incense and 27 gold from Persia in exchange for Monarchy, and silks and gems from Carthage in exchange for Ivory. I switch my war machine over to the production of marketplaces and harbors.

270 -- IBT, Carthage declared war on the Indians. Nobody likes India! I spend a turn consolidating.

280 -- Disaster!!!! Depsite the fact that it was size 3 and all its citizens were happy, Dacca -- the city I had captured from India -- flips back to India. I lose 2 pikes, an AC, and an MI, I think. Very not good. Upon reflection, I give myself the Big Giant Idiot Award for not starving the citizens and/or buying a temple. In other news, Carthage built Leo's Workshop IBT.

290 -- Iznik builds KT. I would have been 10 turns from completing it, so it's just as well I decided not to go for it. My workers continue developing the land near Naissus and Caesarea (they've been draining the swamp, roading, and mining). This turn is interrupted by a several day break in my playing; during this time, I have decided that I should rebuild my military and make another run at India once I learn Astronomy and can therefore attack India without breaking my trade routes.

300 -- The workers work. Trebizond builds a harbor and starts an aqueduct.

310 -- More worker actions.

320 -- Naissus finishes the harbor and starts a barracks.

330 -- Constantinople finishes its marketplace and starts a harbor.

340 -- Nicaea finishes its marketplace and starts a Knight, in preparation for the second (and hopefully more successful) war against India. The workers keep working

350 -- IBT, Bursa builds the Sistine Chapel. Sardica finishes its Temple and starts a Courthouse. Caesarea finishes its Marketplace and joins the war machine by building knights.

360 -- Workers work, and I despair of the fact that most of my rivals now have Education. I'm still 1 turn away. This wouldn't be so bad if they also had me edged out in Invention. After the turn, my wines-for-ivory deal with Osman ends. I renew, prying 8 GPT out of Osman in the process. But he STILL won't give me Invention!

370 -- I learn Education and start researching Banking -- I *think* the AI tends to value Astronomy higher, so my hope is I can swap Banking for Astornomy and Invention. Constantinpople finishes a harbor, Adrianople a Marketplace. Both start Universities. Caesarea and Nicea switch to Universities as well.

380-390 -- Not much happens.

400 -- The RUssians and Ottomans start building Copernicus's Observatory. When I go to see if they'll sell, I learn that Russia and Scandanavia also have Banking. I have GOT to get my research rate up. I sell Theology to Persia for 10 gold just because I can.

410 -- Now India is building Copernicus. I may have to do some of my research at the point of a sword. Of course, despite my intention to build up for a war against India, I've been spending my resources on Marketplaces and Universities.

420 -- I start building another settler -- there's room for one more city north of my horses.

430 -- The Ottomans are building Bach's, which means they have Music Theory.

440 -- More worker actions.

450 -- Now people are building Magellan's Voyage!!!! I am so up a creek, sciencewise. Persia charges me 440 gold plus ivory for dyes and incense, and they now have invention and music theory. But I am one turn from Banking, so hopefully I can get something useful for it in trade.

460 -- I sell Banking to Persia for Invention, 17 gold, and 2 GPT. Nobody will accept GPT from me because of what happened when I went to war with India, severing my trade routes. It's time for a new approach. I start researching Printing Press with a single scientist, figuring I can use the gold to buy myself back into technology parity. I hope.

470 -- More of my cities are building knights. We WILL retake Dacca, and we will hold it this time.

480 -- Almost everyone's got 4 techs I don't have -- Astronomy, Economics, Gunpowder, and Music Theory (five, if you count the fact that at least some of them have Navigation).

At this point, I decide to forego the turn log and start only logging the highlights.

530 -- I buy Gunpowder from the Persians for my entire treasury (1100 gold) plus 2 GPT. I am so excited, I forget to shop around. Idiot!

590 -- I go to war with the Dutch, who are the only people as backwards as me.

600 -- The Ottomans build Bach's Cathedral, which leads the Indians to build Smith's Trading Company.

610 -- My forces land at Ganges, which is a Dutch town south of my home continent (see picture). My Dromons sink a Dutch Galley, triggering my Golden Age.



620 -- I capture Ganges. As soon as I get a harbor hooked up, I will have a second source of saltepeter, which may prove valuable.

630 -- I capture Gades, which shared the island with Ganges.

640 -- I fight off an incursion from the Dutch near Chalcedon (my horse town). The idiot Dutch don't even think to try to pillage my horses.

660 -- I end my war with the Dutch. I have gained 2 cities and one saltepeter. During the war, I've managed to acquire Chemistry and Printing Press. I've also managed to trade enough maps to learn that most of my rivals have made it to the Industrial Age.

720 -- I found Septum.

730 -- I found Nicomedia. I start positioning my troops to attack the Dutch in case they decide not to remove themselves from my territory when I politely ask them to do so (as I plan to do). I also bring my science levels back up to max (or as max as I can get them without losing GPT).



740 -- Sure enough, the Dutch would rather be at war then remove themselves from our territory. So be it. I kill a few Dutch units, and they kill a few of mine.

750 -- More fighting. I land a Musketman and an AC near the Dutch city of Sucis, and they get killed. I decide my goal for this game will be to make it to the end of the game. That means a victory, a non-conquest loss, or being the last Civ to fall in a conquest loss.

770 -- I buy Navigation from India.

810 -- With a couple of Dutch Knights menacing one of my cities, I sue for peace until I have time to get reorganized. I get 1 gold out of the Dutch in the process.

820 -- My Golden Age ends.

830 -- I trade my extra Saltpeter to Russia and my extra horses to the Vikings. I don't get any techs out of the deal, but I manage to secure a few GPT.

930 -- I discover Magnetism. I trade it to Carthage for Gems, Silks, 20 Gold, and Music Theory. They won't sell me Metallurgy, Economics, or Democracy, which are the techs I really want, but I take what I can get. I then buy Metallurgy from Persia in exchange for my map, Magnetism, most of my treasury, and 16 GPT. In 8 turns, I will have Theory of Gravity and launch myself into the Industrial Age.

950 -- The Russians are building the Theory of Evolution. A few other civs are building Universal Sufferage. I'm definitely behind in techs, but I guess it could be worse. I sell my World Map to the Vikings for 2 GPT.

1000 -- I launch myself into the Industrial Age, gaining Steam Power as my freebie tech. I trade it to Carthage in exchange for Democracy, Economics, 5 GPT, and 26 gold. I then buy Miulitary Tradition from Persia for 22 GPT, 235 gold, and Theory of Gravity. Everyone is now in the Industrial Ages except for the Netherlands. Scorewise, I am in second to last place (ahead of only the Vikings). Here's what the world looks like:



Without revealing to much about the Industrial Ages, I see that Ainwood has done something with this map that will make the remainder of the game very interesting.

Open

ainwood said:

For those of you who managed to drag your civilization kicking and screaming into the middle ages

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In 975 BC, at the end of Ancient Times, Queen Theodora was preparing her military in hopes of slowing down the Indian Juggernaut.

The Middle Ages, 975 BC – 520 AD
In order to continue the growth of her empire during the impending conflict, Theodora called for a new form of government in 925 BC. After three turns of anarchy, the new Feudalist state of Byzantine was formed. In 800 BC, India completed the Temple of Artemis, the cultural wonder of the world. Theodora, however, was unimpressed. She was anxious for the muster of her military might.

War with India, 750 BC – 130 AD
In 750 BC Theodora declared war on the pompous Indian civilization, and ordered 10 med. inf., 2 pikes, 1 elite warrior, and 1 trebuchet to invade Indian Territory. Two turns later Kirachi was under Byzantine rule. Over the next 4 centuries (20 turns), Theodora’s troops advanced and fell back, trying to contain the onslaught of Indian medieval infantry and archers. The Byzantines enter a Golden Age in 530 BC thanks to a naval victory. Only two Byzantine divisions were lost during these 400 years, thanks to the addition of five trebuchets to the military host. Ghandi, however, lost dozens. Other than the trebuchets, all the cities of the empire were ordered to build libraries, marketplaces, harbors and aqueducts: except one city that is, which completed the Statue of Zues in 450 BC.

Delhi and its Temple of Artemis were finally captured in 350 BC, and another city was annexed approximately every three turns until 110 BC. At this time, Theodora determined that Feudalism was no longer appropriate for Byzantium, due to a lack of commerce. She ordered a revolt to Republic, and simultaneously ordered a Great Military Leader to move her palace from Constantinople to Delhi. Another leader came soon after, and was ordered to form an army of Ancient Cavalry. Unfortunately, the citizens did not appreciate Theodora’s new government, and they revolted for 140 years (seven turns). Nevertheless, in 30 AD the Republic was formed, and a Forbidden Palace was completed in Constantinople one turn later.

In 130 AD Theodora agreed to peace with India in exchange for 3 cities, reducing Indian autonomy to a small tundra city in the south. In 390 the peace treaty expired, and India was eliminated.

Industrial Age
Thanks to a great deal of technology brokering, the building of universities and the research of Metallurgy, in 520 AD the Byzantines entered the Industrial Age. Upon entering the age, Theodora gifted technology to the Ottomans and Persians, and they gained the knowledge of Medicine and Nationalism. Medicine was acquired, but the Persians would not relinquish the secrets of Nationalism for 1300g, 165gpt and ivory. Theodora was not amused.

Theodora was then informed that she had “learned the secrets of CHEMISTRY from the Persians,” and she suffered a very small heart attack. Fortunately, her advisor had misspoken, and she had truly acquired the knowledge of Steam Power. Theodora ordered the advisor beheaded and felt better immediately. She then set her sights upon the Republic of Russia, and ordered her cartographer and military advisor to send her an immediate report on the status of her empire. In light of the recent beheading, they jumped to the task:

Megalou said:

I've always had trouble with that too. You need a lot of patience. Closely packed cities are not bad, but perhaps they should have built the cultural imrovements later and the horsemen/warriors first? Some of the towns might be able to reach 10 shields per turn, which is a handy number for horseman/spearman/warrior/swordsman.

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Thanks, I don't feel as bad now. I was trying a new idea. It worked in PtW but I think I'll have to change it in C3C. Maybe CxxC instead of CxC.

Golden Age started 500BC, the turn after moving to Monarchy. India went to war and GA triggered by sinking a galley. Indians will pay dearly their treacherous acts.

310BC - First Military Leader (elite AC). Created an army of AC
250BC - Second Military Leader (elite AC).
Saving it for Forbibdden Palace. Maybe a bad idea, since I had tons of elite wins before Forbidden Palace was actually built.

10AD - Arrgh, a treacherous Byzantin city has decided to join the Indians and their evil cause. It should be only a minor nuisance.

30AD - taking Indian capital Delhi and Artemis with it. Wonder how long it will take before it flips?

Whoops, did not take long. Two turns later I loose several well trained including some elite garrisons when Delhi flips. I rush back with my army and a couple of AC that were going for next city and I take it back the turn after. I sue for peace and get a couple of more cities around Delhi. I put all my men inside Delhi to prevent a flip. I use my saved up leader to build Forbidden Palace. Delhi is now one of my best cities. Well, if it flips now, I will probably cry. After building library, I starve it to do some 'cleansing' and get popular majority. When I go into war again a bit later it wont be flipping (cross my fingers).

Then follows a rather long period of peace.
I had a flip and lost one minor city back to the Indians. The only problem was I had 4 dromons in there. What was I thinking ??

390BC - I research Theology as first civ, and trade for gunpowder and chivalry and chemistry. Luckily Indians dont have saltpeter. I have a nice little source up to the north.

470AD - I declare war and Indians seem weak. The elephant rush that greets me is not up to usual standards.

490AD Third Military Leader (from Medieval Infrantry). I create an army and wait for cavalry.
580AD Fourth Military Leader (from Medieval Infrantry). I create an army and wait for cavalry.
I cannot remember a game where I had that many MGL. Who needs Heroic Epic?

640AD - I get Music Theory as first civ. Nice because I am behind in tech. I get a bit nervous as I see Carthage start Shakespeare. I trade it around for Astronomy, Military Training, Banking and Navigation. Carthage and Russia are still ahead, I can see they have at least Democracy and Physics. But nobody in Industrial Era so far.
650AD Fifth Military Leader (from Medieval Infrantry). I create an army and wait for cavalry.

Peace is then made with Indians for all but their capital, including a city on a far off island that is close to iron. We expect to finish them off soon.

We then research Economics as first Civ, and trade it around for Physics and some lux.

800AD we discover Magnetism and trade with Ottomans for Theory of Gravity. Enter IA. Get Steam Power as free tech. Nobody else has it yet. I trade it around for Medecin and gpt. Carthage is the tech leader and they have Nationalism and who knows - maybe more. I have made a stupid error at some point it seems, noone wants to give me tech for gpt or resource/lux any more. I think it comes from the fact that I made peace with the Indians while having alliance with Russians and others against them (?).

Hopefully what follows is a an overview of the Byzantine land in 800AD. If anybody can point me to information on how to insert pics in the text that would be most appreciated.

MiniMe: Try these instructions from one of our more technically oriented players:

To add screenshots to your posts:

1. Create the screenshot as a .jpg file using your Paint program, cropped and reduced to 800 pixels width or less.

2. Upload the file to the server using the Upload FIle link a the boittom of every page.

3. Click on View New Server 8 listing in the acknowledgment screen

4. Right click the file link for the file you have just uploaded and Copy the shortcut.

5. Put "[ img ] link [ /img ]" tags into your post where you want the image file to be displayed. Leave out the spaces that I have inserted here to disable the tags and paste the shortcut you copied in place of the "link".

Thanks for the hints !

Open

Ancient Age
Yes I survived the middle ages, but I certainly didn't do as well as I thought I might with the tech lead I had at the beginning of the MA. This is a tough map. Yes it is an archipelago, but that helps if you can achieve a tech brokerage position and maintain more easily. With the number of seafaring civs this is difficult to achieve. Also having more than one other civ on your landmass means you can use one to help defeat the other in wars, which again you could not do effectively here since the AI make poor sea bourne invaders.

Anyway, here is what happened.

Indian War
We reached the MA in 900BC, and had tech up to theology at that time. We tried to set ourselves up to attack India, as they were the obvious threat, and it is nice to own your landmass. In 350BC we declared on India. The war ran untile 150AD. In the beginning we made reasonable progress, using Dromons to bombard our target cities. We quickly captured two. About this time we completed the Statue of Zeus to use ancient cavalry in the war. Then things started to go wrong. Both conquests flipped, though were retaken. Then the hordes of Indian troops starting scoring too high a toll on our troops. Eventually we just had insufficient left to continue. Our golden age was triggered in 70BC, but much of it was wasted in a war that wasn't going anywhere. In 150AD we gave India peace for their annoying city just north of our core. Net gain only three cities.

Tech Slide
Perhaps as a consequence of being a monarchy rather than a republic, we had difficulty keeping up in tech, in spite of our initial MA tech lead. Our firt trade, after entering the MA, was not until 410BC, when feudalism finally came out, and we traded theology for it. Russia made the early running as tech leader, until they were later ripped apart by the Ottomans. In 150AD we traded our newly discovered education for invention, gunpowder and chivalry. We immediately sold India Education so as to render the temple of artemis impotent.

We saw that India had no saltpeter, and so thought they would make a good repeat target, but later in the Age, we found ourselves falling well behind them, and then saw that they had traded for saltpeter when cavalry appeared, long before we had MT.

In 230AD, education brought us printing press, but by now everyone had traded contacts, so there was no value in this except being a pre-requisite for democracy,

In 340AD we buy Astronomy and trade it for banking. We were doing a pre-build on Copernicus, and speed it up by joiining three workers to Adrianapole. We succeed in getting this wonder in 490AD.

In 370AD, Astronomy buys us music theory, but we are unable to buy democracy. I had decided at this point that monarchy wasn't working for me, and that I needed to change to democracy for its improvement in my economy and research capability.

In 420AD we finish building the forbidden palace.

In 520AD, we buy chemistry, and trade it for navigation. We then trade for the complete world map.

In 730AD, our sought after democracy finally becomes tradeable for both navigation and chemistry.

In 740AD, the end oif the Russian war sees us pick up metallurgy.

In 900AD we learn military tradition and trade for physics.

In 980AD, we can buy either magnetism or Theory of Gravity. If we brought the latter we could trade and enter the IA, but I decide to get magnetism and research ToG, so as to use the big picture.

In 1090AD we finish delf research and enter the IA in sixth place.

Russian War
In the middle oif the age, we were struggling to afford tech. I noticed that the Ottomans had left Russia with only four cities, so I declared War in 680AD. It was then a waiting game as I lined up to capture three of these cities on the sixth turn of war. In 740AD we captured the three Russian cities, but only got a big discount on one tech, metallurgy. I was hoping to get a couple of techs from this.

Democracy
We revolted to democracy in 770AD, and drew 6 turns of anarchy. Initially I had thought I would be at war a lot early, and that therefore monarchy would be a good government, but democracy has suited our forced 'peacefulness' far better, enabling us to research, and buy our way out of our tech hole.

Industrial Age
From the big picture we see that five civs are already in the IA, but none have medicine. Russia is not there yet, but there doesn't seem any point putting them there, because all first tier techs, except medicine have already gone. We trade India medicine for steam, economics, world map, 91gpt, and 1 gold. I then found that no-one seems to want my gpt, however, I really did not think I had broken my rep. It is annoying, because now I have over 300gpt to play with! Medicine and a lot of gold gets us electricity. Electricity, medicine and some gold gets us nationalism, and I end up just selling medicine to Persia for almost 2000 gold, as they will not take gpt to buy either replaceable parts or Industrialisation.

I start work on Scientific method, and a prebuild for Theory of Evolution.

Future Plans
If we can get ToE, that will sort out our tech issues. We are also planning a war against the Dutch, as they have a resource I want, and are still in the MAs. Victory target is still probably space. The tech pace certainly supports it, but I need to get out with the leaders again somehow!

Medicine and a lot of gold gets us electricity.

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I don't understand. Are you able to choose your free tech? Doesn't the free tech drop in when you hit Show Big Picture? I guess these questions doesn't quite belong in this thread, but you seem to have done something similar in the early Middle Ages.
EDIT: Forget the quote. I just realized you were trading. But what about the trick you did in the early MA?

The Middle Ages started out nicely for me, but didn't go the way I would have liked in the end.

I begin the MA best friends with India. We have luxury trades going as well as gold per turn gifting that I laid on Ghandi to buy some time to build an assault force. I also have luxury trades going with Russia, and if I go to war with India too soon that trade route will be cut. My research is at 0% so I can make good use of the Great Library, and I'm using some cash here and there to rush improvements, though I'm saving some as well to upgrade units. Carthage appears to be putting some real pressure on the Vikings, and Persia soon declares on the Dutch and tries to drag several of us into the war. My plan: Be ready for war in a little over 20 turns. My deals with India expire in 15 turns and my trade with Russia expires in 20.

From the GReat Library we learn Monotheism in 330BC, Invention in 270BC, and Chivalry in 170BC. The Russians complete Sun Tzu's and India completes Leonardo's, and we learn Theology and gunpowder in 90BC. Also in 90 BC we prepare for our attack on Lahore. We are strong compared to them militarily, and our initial attack force consisits of 2 ancient cav, 3 trebs, 1 elite archer, 1 longbow, 1 pike, and 11 MI. 5 Dromons will bombard Lahore from the west side. 4 Dromons have been sent along the south coast in case any galleys come that way, and to harass troops close to the shore and bombard roads. Mainly though, they are looking for a galley to sink to start our golden age. We pay Russia 128 gold +8 per turn for an alliance against India.

Lahore falls with ease and I am instilled with confidence that the war will go well. The Dromons redline all 4 defenders and we move through quickly towards Jaipur, leaving a small garrison in Lahore. Too small a garrison it turns out. War elephants break through our line and retake Lahore, sending India into their Golden Age as well. I swear that every single war elephant I saw was elite, with 6 hit points. Where they earned their stripes I have no idea.

In 10AD we retake Lahore and cut the road. Soon after Lahore will flip back to India. Where the heck did all these elite elephants come from?! Our assault force takes a serious pounding. We lose 2 MI attacking Jaipur and burn the city to the ground. It is clear now that the war is NOT going well. Jaipur would surely flip if we tried to keep it, and its removal dramatically cheanges the cultural boundary in that area. If we are forced to abandon this assault, having Jaipur taken out should allow our border towns to maintain enough culture to avoid flipping.

We get education IBT, Lahore flips, and India completes the Knights Templar. Soon after we lose Trebizond to war elephants. Our assault force is decimated and our trebs captured. India in turn uses our trebs against our dromons that have been moving along the coast bombarding roads and troops. (I really enjoyed those dromons by the way. I thought it was a pretty cool unit) At this point my goal is to get out of the war asap, but I want Trebizond back and I don't want to break my alliance with Russia. AND I could really use a Golden Age about now. I never saw an Indian galley to attack.

In 190AD a Dutch galley enters our waters and we declare war. One dromon bombards, a second sinks it starting our Golden Age. In 230AD Russia signs for peace with India. We manage to retake Trebizond in a daring move. If we had failed I think we would have lost 2 more cities if the war continued. We make peace with India. They give 16 gold, 3gpt and... Lahore!

During all this time I really neglected my trade with the other civs. I kept watching for new techs but didn't make any trades. Now it's time to get back in the trading game. We get silks and gems from carthage, and gold per turn from persia for theology, and some other trades not as noteworthy. We head for banking in 11 turns. We make gifts to India but Ghandi is still furious with us.

In 310AD we make peace with the Dutch and give him invention. I think everyone is polite towards us except Ghandi of course, and Carthage who is gracious. In 340 we make it to banking ahead of everyone. For trades we acquire Astronomy, Music Theory, Chemistry, wines, furs, 41gold per turn, plus about 300 coins. Definitely a good trading round, there. In 390 we make it to economics and we don't trade this time. I want to try and build Smith's Trading Post. Now on to Physics.

In 450 AD we get Physics. For trades we get Navigation, Printing Press, Metallurgy, gems, more gold and gold per turn including 990 gold from Russia. A tip for people learning the tech trading game: trade with the civs that have the most cash LAST! IBT: the Dutch ask for an alliance vs. India. HA! No thank you. You can have those elephants all to your self. Russia turns around and asks for alliance vs. Dutch. No thanks. Our citizens are really happy right now. In fact we soon find out that our civ is the happiest in the world.

480AD: India completes Copernicus'. Carthage demands banking and we give it to them. They are still gracious. We get Theory of Gravity first in 520 AD and trade it around. India gets it as a present and the Vikings get LOTS of tech gifts from us this year. I think they have one city left at this point. Russia offers 8 gold for Theory of Gravity. C'mon Cathy, you're loaded! I think it probably means she is about to finish the research on it herself. We give it to her. Another tip for the tech trading game: give it away if you can't get jack for it (unless it's an important tech, of course). Better to have a civ on good terms with you for gifting to them than to hoard the tech and have them annoyed with you a few turns later for not trading with them.

Magentism is 9 turns away for us. I highly doubt we'll make it there first. I turn off research for +300 gold per turn. In 580AD, sure enough Russia, the Ottomans, and Persia are in the Industrial Age. I don't know who got what techs because it all happened in one turn. We buy magnetism from Ottomans for 1700 gold (ouch!). We get steam power as our free tech, and of course we have no coal. As far as I can tell Russia has a monopoly on coal, but none of it is hooked up yet. Medicine and Nationalism have already been traded around. We gift Magnetism to Ghandi and then gift him Steam Power. He's still pissed at us.

So we made it. At least I didn't lose any ground in the war with India. Taking Jaipur down will help keep their cultural boundary at bay I think. I'll post a couple shots illustrating that. I think my best bet at this point is to focus on cultural and educational improvements in my cities, keep my people happy, and try to keep the other civs happy with me long enough to go for a diplo win. It's clear that military actions on demi-god difficulty are out of my league!




Yes, I know it's sad when the best screen shots I have is of a shifted cultural boundary!

(predator)

Link to Ancient Age spoiler

Entering the Middle Ages

At the end of Ancient Times I'd expanded to fill most of the home region. I had a defensive ongoing war with India - she was sending units to attack me at the chokepoint, I was just defending without trying to invade her. I also had an ongoing war with Carthage which had been completely uneventful.

I'd been hurrying research forward. I wanted to get a bit of a tech lead over India and then invade her. I decided not to go directly for Military Tradition. At this difficulty level that would take a fair while and in the meantime India was almost certain to build a force of Elephants. I decided to go for Chivalry first and to try to subdue India before she had many Elephants.

In 975BC when I learned Currency I used some of DaveMcW's Free Tech Tricks. I used "the big picture" from the new era screen, then F4, then gifted the other scientific Civs into the Middle Ages. Ottomans got Monotheism, Russia got Feudalism, and Persia got Engineering. Nice, all three first level techs! I traded to get all three techs, exited, and my free tech was Invention. That was almost enough to make me change my goal to space or to change my research to head for Cavalry. I gave my head a shake and set research to Chivalry as planned.

Preparing for War in a Golden Age

I decided to build Statue Of Zeus. I hadn't started it before this date because I wasn't sure it would be worthwhile - if I'd decided on the path to Cavalry it would be obsolete relatively quickly. Having decided on the Chivalry/Knights approach Statue of Zeus seemed clearly worthwhile.

I also decided to quickly produce some Dromons and to trigger a Golden Age. I wanted one soon to increase income (saving up for horsemen upgrades) and to speed production of my Forbidden Palace, Statue Of Zeus, and some veteran Horsemen.

In 875BC I used a Dromon to destroy an incoming galley from Carthage and that triggered my Golden Age.

In 825BC I got the horses in the north connected via harbors. This was a nice way to connect them quickly in this game without investing a lot of early worker turns into creating the long road through the mountains.

A few Carthage ships approached my shores in 800BC. I didn't have enough Dromons to handle them so I made peace with Carthage, ending that war and its reverse war weariness. I was now at war only with India.

In 730BC I completed the Statue Of Zeus and began a prebuild for Knights Templar.

My war with India continued to be purely a defensive one as I built up a force of Horsemen and slowly researched Chivalry. I wasn't in a hurry to learn Chivalry. I wanted to have a fair number of Horsemen and the funds to upgrade them by the time I learned it. I also wanted to have the Knights Templar prebuild near completion.

India cooperated by continuing to send a regular trickle of attackers. In 630BC this resulted in my first great leader:



The leader immediately formed my first army which remained empty waiting for the discovery of Chivalry.

In 590BC I completed my Forbidden Palace. The Golden Age had given that task a nice boost.

In 550BC I learned Chivalry and set research to zero. I didn't have my iron connected yet so I was able to build a few more horsemen before beginning the upgrades.

In 490BC I completed Knights Templar, in Constantinople along with Statue of Zeus.

Finally in 470BC I connected iron and began upgrading. I had 20 Horsemen at this point. I'd been using cash to rush a lot of things, including short rushing some Horsemen, but I still had funds on hand to upgrade 11 Horsemen immediately. Even though my luxury slider was at 30% and I was paying 48gpt for unit support, net income was quite good at 217gpt. This was partly due to my Golden Age and partly due to deals with remote Civs - my largest deal so far was Invention to Russia for 89gpt+197g.

The Invasion of India

In 450BC, near the end of my Golden Age, three Knights joined the waiting Army which then led my troops into India. Shortly after this construction of the Heroic Epic began

In 430BC I decided it would be useful to get Russia and Ottomans fighting to wear each other down a bit in advance of my arrival in their area. I had some nice income from Russia at the time so I declared war on Ottomans, then allied Russia against them.

In 390BC I took Delhi from India, gaining The Pyramids and The Great Library. By this date I'd upgraded all Horsemen and my forces consisted of 19 Knights, 3 Ancient Cavalry, 1 Crusader, and 3 Dromons.

Happiness was an ongoing problem in this game. War weariness made it worse of course. Still, I'm glad I went to Republic - I think that overall I gained a fair bit from it even after allowing for what I spent on luxuries.

At 230BC I had reduced India to five towns, all size one:



I positioned troops to take the remaining Indian towns as they grew. Annoying, but I didn't want to raze them and didn't want to trade peace for some and then have to wait 20 turns.

In 190BC I razed one of the Indian towns to get furs connected. Finally a second luxury! I had to keep my luxury slider at 50% though, the second luxury wasn't enough help to lower the slider without also having to use entertainers in core cities.

Invading Russia

I regrouped the bulk of my forces on the western Indian coast, rushed some Dromons nearby, and in 150BC began my invasion of Russia.

Taking over Russia was time consuming. She had a fair number of units and I left some of mine behind to clean out the remnants of India. New troops took a long time to travel from my homeland across India and then to be ferried over to Russia. Nonetheless it was straightforward. Russia didn't have iron so she didn't even have Pikemen to defend.

During this invasion I started using my Dromons for military support when they weren't required as transports. I never built a lot of them nor used them heavily this way in the game but I did use them more and more later on (as I had more left over from transport duty) and found them helpful - four or five Dromons could soften a coastal target a bit before land troops attacked it.

While taking over Russia my troops produced three more leaders. Each immediately formed an army. I loaded three Knights into one army to lead the fighting and held the other two armies in reserve so that they could travel by ship.

In 110BC my troops in India razed her last town, having taken three before then as they grew. With India out of the game my happiness improved a lot. I also gained control of spices (luxury #3) early in my invasion of Russia for another happiness boost.

I continually rushed settlers in ex-India while invading Russia, to fill in the land and expand borders toward my domination goal.

At 50AD Russia was down to two towns (hidden somewhere in the fog) and my map looked like this:



Also in 50AD the Great Library gave me Education, ending its usefulness. By then it had given me Theology and Gunpowder. A nice boost, I posthumously thanked India for building it for me.

Invading Ottomans

Late in my invasion of Russia I saw the land connection to Ottomans. Good news, that would be a bit faster than transporting units across water.

At 50AD I was still at war with the Ottomans from my earlier alliance with Russia against them. So my troops just continued onward into Ottoman lands.

The Ottomans were tougher than previous opponents. They were at par in tech and had iron and horses. But they didn't have saltpeter so they only had Pikemen and Knights. I loaded one of my two reserve armies with Knights and dug in with two Knight armies spearheading the invasion.

In 210AD I finally defeated my second Ottoman city, Uskudar. For this city I made an exception to my domination approach and razed it. It had the Great Wall, a wonder which was of little use to me but one which I really didn't want the Ottomans regaining via a flip, not even temporarily.

Progress continued slowly. In 280AD I defeated a fourth Ottoman city, Istanbul, and with it took over Sun Tzu's. After this progress sped up a bit because I could cash-rush Knights locally.

Some time earlier I'd started sending troops sailing east from the homeland. They took a Russian town on the large island southeast of Netherlands, then continued sailing east and found two Russian towns in the southwest tundra region of the Ottoman lands. They took over these towns and eliminated Russia in 300AD.

In 310AD Carthage declared war on me. I still had two Knight armies operating in Ottoman lands. Those armies couldn't travel off the island and the Ottomans were reduced enough in strength at this date that the armies with just a few support troops should be able to finish them off. So I started regrouping the majority of my forces to sail for Carthage.

My armies and some support units continued in the Ottoman lands. In 420AD they took the last Ottoman city on their home island. The support units then prepared to sail for the island north of Ottomans and east of Carthage. My world map at 420AD, with the Ottomans nearly wiped out and the invasion of Carthage under way:



During the invasion of Ottomans I'd started researching again. I wanted to learn Navigation and Military Tradition. I researched the bottom path learning Chemistry in 340AD, Metallurgy in 390AD, and Military Tradition in 430AD. Along the way I traded with Persia to get Astronomy, Navigation, some gold, and another luxury (incense.)

I also captured Hanging Gardens from Ottomans and had gained two more luxuries. The result was that by 420AD I finally had happiness well under control. I only needed a 10% luxury rate to maintain full productivity throughout my empire, even with some war weariness.

Invading Carthage

I'd held back one army while invading Ottomans and got another one during that fighting. So when my troops landed in Carthage in 340AD they were accompanied by two armies. Six Knights immediately joined the armies and they spearheaded the invasion.

Carthage didn't have horses. But she had Numidian Mercenaries and Musketmen. I made good progress at first as can be seen by the minimap above at 420AD. But by that date I was losing steam - I still had my two armies in Carthage but my support troops were down to six Knights.

In 430AD I learned Military Tradition and paused to ugprade four of my Knights (the other two were veterans.) After this I was able to use all income to rush additional Cavalry locally and the pace picked up again.

I'd produced my 6th leader in 380AD while invading Carthage and had saved him for this time. He rushed Military Academy in 430AD which made my armies a bit stronger. I also thought I might end up cash rushing an army or two to send to other lands but that ended up being unnecessary - I decided it was more useful to rush Cavalry with my funds.

Some Cavalry and Crusaders sailed for the island shared by Ottomans and Carthage in 440AD.

In 500AD I'd driven Carthage entirely off her home island and had begun invading the island east of it:



I'd been aggressively expanding territory in the Ottoman lands in the meantime and also had taken the Carthage town at the south of the Netherlands.

I took over the last Ottoman town in 520AD and they were out of the game. My troops there travelled north and took over the Carthage towns on the island.

After taking over those towns I sent a couple of shiploads of units to try to eliminate Carthage. It turned out to be a long chase because she founded a town on another island during the process.

Invading Scandinavia

After driving Carthage off her homeland in 500AD my troops regrouped at the north, then declared war on Scandinavia and invaded in 520AD. This fight was straightforward but a bit unlucky in culture flips - I had to recapture two cities.

In 560AD I took the last Viking city on their home island.

Domination

While fighting the Vikings I sent troops to land in the north Netherlands where Scandinavia and Carthage had each established one town. I'd had two more leaders (7th and 8th in the game) while fighting Carthage and Scandinavia - both of them travelled to the Netherlands as empty armies.

At 560AD I controlled 55% of the world's land. Victory was in sight.

My troops took over the Viking and Carthage towns and were then ready to invade Holland. Holland would be easy - she'd lagged in tech throughout the game and didn't have saltpeter. In 580AD I declared war and invaded.

For the next few turns I was working on a few things at once:
1) "Fill in" previously conquered lands using libraries and settlers.
2) Chase down the last scattered Viking and Carthage holdings.
3) Invade Holland.

In 620AD I eliminated Scandinavia and in 640AD eliminated Carthage.

And finally in 650AD a domination victory!

At this point I was still at war with Holland, still at peace with Persia, and there was no one else left in the game:

Megalou said:

I don't understand. Are you able to choose your free tech? Doesn't the free tech drop in when you hit Show Big Picture? I guess these questions doesn't quite belong in this thread, but you seem to have done something similar in the early Middle Ages.
EDIT: Forget the quote. I just realized you were trading. But what about the trick you did in the early MA?

Click to expand...

If you research the last tech to reach the new age, as opposed to trading for it, then you have the option of going to the big picture screen. This takes you to the science advisor. From there you can select the tech you want as your free tech! You also can jump to the foreign advisor screen before receiving your free tech, and so trade for early age techs, and therefore in some cases chose a second tier tech as your free tech.

The crucial bit is researching that last tech! Hope this helps. To put credit where credit is due, I learnt this trick from Dave McW tech jumping . Note, Sir Pleb did something similiar in his game.

Sandman2003 said:

From there you can select the tech you want as your free tech!

Click to expand...

Using the approach you describe it is possible to get a second tier tech as your free tech. But I don't think this trick lets you choose which tech you get. I used the technique for the first time in this game to ensure that I got a unique tech. I was lucky to have the three scientific AIs get all three first tier techs without getting a double. But I tried to force my free tech by selecting Chivalry before exiting from the new era big picture and I still ended up getting Invention. So I think that the tech you get, while guaranteed to be unique, will still be random among the available possibilities.

SirPleb said:

But I tried to force my free tech by selecting Chivalry before exiting from the new era big picture and I still ended up getting Invention. So I think that the tech you get, while guaranteed to be unique, will still be random among the available possibilities.

Click to expand...

I was wondering why you hadn't just chosen Chivalry! All I can say is that I chose the tech at the end of the AA and got what I chose. I then chose a tech at the end of the MA and also got what I chose. So I assumed that the process worked like the Philosophy free tech, or the ToE free techs - you get what you have queued. My sample isn't very large, however, so it may have just been luck.

I have just checked both my end AA and end MA selections. At both times there were three tech options that could have been my free tech. Ie a one in nine that I got what I wanted by luck. I am sufficiently encouraged by my results to continue believing I can chose the free tech by queueing it on the F6 screen. I guess it will only take one failure to convince me otherwise, though.

Just a quick question. Is it appropriate to post on this thread if you gave up during the AA and reloaded to 20 turns earlier and played forward. I don't plan on submitting the game, but am curious if posting my new strategy would be of interest.

@denyd

I have seen many others do it, so I assume it is ok. I would certainly like to hear what you tried. And will it be literary or just exposition?

I was wondering why you hadn't just chosen Chivalry! All I can say is that I chose the tech at the end of the AA and got what I chose. I then chose a tech at the end of the MA and also got what I chose. So I assumed that the process worked like the Philosophy free tech, or the ToE free techs - you get what you have queued. My sample isn't very large, however, so it may have just been luck.

I have just checked both my end AA and end MA selections. At both times there were three tech options that could have been my free tech. Ie a one in nine that I got what I wanted by luck. I am sufficiently encouraged by my results to continue believing I can chose the free tech by queueing it on the F6 screen. I guess it will only take one failure to convince me otherwise, though.

Click to expand...

You have had a good portion of luck. You can get a different tech than selected. It' different from the free tech you get from philosophy or ToE.