Classic 36 Spoiler 1: End of Ancient Age

I found coming up with a plan for RCP to be more difficult on this map than on any other I have ever played. Was this by design, Ainwood? If so: I really struggled with RCP: no matter what layout I chose, I seemed to end up with suboptimal placement. Either I couldn’t use the third cow without a temple, or my cities would destroy too many BGs, or I didn’t have enough coastal cities, etc.

I wondered the exact same thing. Half the reason I abandoned the idea of RCP-3 around my palace was due to the paucity of decent tiles to build cities on at that distance. As I said in my post upthread somewhere, it was all bonusgrassbonusgrassbonusgrass mountainmountainmountain! So, ummm .. good job, Ainwood? :lol:

(The other half of the reason was the raging barbs, which ultimately made me decide I needed multiple cities producing military units early more than I needed dual settler pumps.)

Renata
 
Bradley & Renata

I used a RCP around York, which I located 1 tile West of where Bradley has his on his dotmap. I was able to build RCP3 & 6 and managed to stay off most of the BGs. (I indicated BGs with the yellow dots). This made London an RCP3 city and I planned to make a palace jump to another landmass later in the game.

 
AlanH said:
So if the nearet city to the Palace after you've moved it is at radius 5 all cities at or nearer than 5 from the FP get rank 1.

This part I knew, regarding the corruption in the first ring around the FP. For some ridiculous reason though, I assumed that after the first ring around the FP, distance from the FP determined corruption. :blush: Of course, now that I actually think about it, this would make no sense whatsoever. Such a corruption situation would require dual (and bizarre) corruption calculations in the coding. Looks like I need to go back and read the articles by Qitai and Alexman yet again. They just do not seem to want to sink into my brain.

I seem to say the following a lot, but nevertheless: thank you very much Alan! I expect this to help a lot in future games. It could save me much time too: the RCP scheme for this game took a long time to come up with.

To DJMGator: At one point, I had the same RCP plan as you, but then I made a "priority list" to go along with my dotmap. I had the usual on it (a certain number of port cities, not settling BGs, etc.), but after much thought I decided that my #1 priority was to found my second city next to the third cow so that it would not need a temple. That pretty much locked me into 4/4.5 RCP from the Palace.

Didn't it take you a long time before you could use the third cow? For me, that would feel exactly like being trapped in a tent full of mosquitoes. Every time I looked at the map and saw that little milker not being used, it would have made me :twitch:
 
Yes, it did take me a while to get the cow into use and it was grabbed by a 2nd ring city, Liverpool which I founded in 1475BC. However, I did not build a temple in it until 210BC.

I did not feel that was a big drawback because London was kicking out settlers every 4 turns and I had almost completely filled my island by the end of the QSC period (15 cities and 3 settlers).
 
DJMGator13 said:
I did not feel that was a big drawback because London was kicking out settlers every 4 turns and I had almost completely filled my island by the end of the QSC period (15 cities and 3 settlers).

I just read through your post in detail, and you are right. In the end, having the cow does not seem to have made a significant difference at all! :o

I seem to be learning quite a few new things in this game.
 
Or you could do what I did :blush:

After your scout has mapped the local area, bring up MapStat, click on the tile next to London (by mistake) and plan your first 2 rings based on that error. :aargh:
 
My scout saw other islands very early and I not planned to build FP on my island. I don't like RCP3 because it is worse then RCP4 in the middle part of the game. I used RCP5 only once in my games: in GOTM33 (I didn't end this game). I think RCP5 is good for the long games.

And I agree with AlanH with FP city placement. It is very useful bug and in many case moving the palace (with FP in home) is better then found FP in the remote lands.
 
Ancient Age

I intend to focus on Domination with Chariot > Horse > Knight > Cavalry Upgrades, again… I would like to manage an early win (maybe before 1000 AD)
I will need the Great Light House in order explore this archipelago but I will need to have this Wonder not too early and with Republic as it will trigger my GA.

Looking at the start position I move SW in order to grab the 2 cows in order to attempt for a settler factory. My search path will be min on Writing and max towards Map Making
I settle Brighton and build order is Warrior for Military Police and then scout, worker and Granary
Worker starts to Irrigate in direction of one of the cows.
Scout quickly notice that I am alone my island … so I badly need boats to settle other places. I also notice a Blue border on the West side and I leave one of my scout on the spot so that I can meet by chance some
In 2590 BC I spot the first barbs while I only have one town and in 2490 my lonely Warrior defending Brighton loses against a barbs and Brighton loses one pop as a consequence I shift some build of my capital towards 2 Warriors.
I then continue to produce Settlers at a quick rate but not regularly on 4 turn base since I need to build some warriors to protect from Barbs. My initial ring is at RCP 4 and second at 7 and I am planning to have the Forbidden Palace at York (East of Brighton) and build a RCP at 3 around this to be built FP.
Writing is discovered in 2110 BC (turn 41) and I start Max research on Map Making (discovered in 1350 BC). I do not search directly towards Republic but I research The Wheel in an attempt to start building my army. I had a pre-built (with Barracks) ready to produce rapidly my first galley that I load with a Warrior and Settler towards this Blue border and after along the south coast of the German island.
In 1275 BC, I meet the Germans that have not research Alphabet yet ! but are up BW / Masonry / WC / The Wheel / CB. However with Alphabet I can not manage to trade more than one tech so I leave them there. I want to meet other civs before doing any trade plus Germany without MM is not ready to meet anybody except from their starting landmass.
In 1075 BC, I have a scout spotting a Horse fighting some body on the East spotted island … maybe a new contact !
In 1050 BC, I meet France (South) and China as a Archers wipes out a Barbs camps close to where I left a Warrior who spied all the action.

In 1000 BC, there is a large Trading Party that goes :
German : CB & BW & 28 GP vs Alphabet
France : WM vs WM & 40 GP
German : Mysticism & WM & WC & 41 GP & IW vs WM & Writing
China : WM & Masonry & 11 GP vs WM
France : WM & Horseman & 1 GP vs WM
German : 40 GP vs WM
I could have waited for India to be spotted but it will enable me to produce a much needed Temple so that I can go towards Great Light House. So I am up few techs especially from China / Germany plus I have all the World Map so I can go towards India and a another Blue border to be spied…

I have 12 towns / 1 Settler / 6 Workers / 2 Scouts / 20 Warrior / 2 galleys (lost one against Barbs). I plan to settle on Chinese Island to have a base for Conquest. I will grab one cow and the only Horse :) Similarly my outpost on German island is grabbing one horse …

In 825 BC, I start researching Republic while soon completing the Temple (2 more turns) in order to start building the Light House.
In 650 BC, I go towards Brown borders and I have already discovered America and Spain. I am going towards Domination and I am going towards China (very remote and close builds) and then America / Spain. I will leave Germany / France as best partners. America is very tempting with 3 luxs available… I need to start building my army but I have still my majors towns producing Forbidden Palace / Great LightHouse / Settler I have all others towns on producing Barracks and Horsemen.
In 450 BC, China is still to know any contact even if they have the full map and a galley in my south shore. It is the same with Germany but I will soon give those contacts away since galleys start to be seen. Next turn it is revolt. I have still 13 turns to complete the Light House. I have 6 turns anarchy while revolting using the Big Picture option and I re-revolt again and I am only with 3 turns. I am still a weak military (even compare to China) while I am building few temples to be able to keep happiness in big towns.
In 250 BC, I lose the Light House race against America (by 4 turns) so it really make America a nice target and I need to switch towards Great Lib (only available wonder - Otherwise, I loose many shells )
 
1.27

I'm shooting for a high scoring space victory. If time constraints don't allow me to finish with a launch I may fall back on a domination or diplomatic win.

Opening Moves

I settled on the coast SW of the start position. I decided to go for a granary before anything else. Before I finished that the scout found the third cattle. The start position looked awesome at that point - a four turn warrior+settler factory and a two turn worker factory would be just barely possible!

I made some unusual moves to get the two factories running as quickly as possible. My first worker mined one tile and then irrigated five tiles without building any roads. Normally I'd consider that too wasteful. It costs another worker move later on to get back to each tile and also keeps income low for a long time, requiring extreme use of the luxury slider. In this case that seemed a good tradeoff. I also delayed building any warriors beyond what I'm comfortable with for protection from barbarians, pumping out a lot of early workers instead. Each time I completed one worker and started another I reasoned that I'd be at most two turns from having a warrior if the need arose, so I'd just continue with another worker since he'd be useful.

My initial build sequence in London was granary(3100), settler(2850), 5*worker in two turns each (2430), warrior(2350), settler(2190). And London then began its warrior+settler four turn cycle. York was six turns from completing its granary at 2190BC:



Research

I started with 40 turn research of Writing, learning it in 2110.

I then researched at the maximum rate I could afford. Learned Map Making in 1350, Code Of Laws in 1075, Philosophy in 925, and Republic in 570.

By 570 I'd traded for all other ancient techs except Currency, Construction, Literature, and Polytheism - no one knew those techs yet.

I revolted to Republic immediately upon learning it. I used the big picture trick and got a six turn revolution. Silly me, I decided to gamble on getting a better one, revolted again, and ended up with seven turns of anarchy.

After becoming a Republic I researched Currency. I learned it in 350BC and was able to trade at that time for Literature, Polytheism, and Construction, and thus entered the Middle Ages.

Exploration

In 3300 my scout hailed China. MiniMe has already provided us with a nice picture of this event :) I decided not to trade with them at that time, hoping to meet another Civ or two to improve trade prices.

In 2800 my scout finished revealing the coastline and determined that we were isolated on an island.

I thought about trying to get Map Making from China, or from another Civ if one sailed by, but ended up deciding to research it. China was very backward and I thought she'd be likely to research other techs before Map Making (The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Iron Working, and perhaps even Mysticism could come first for her.) It seemed too risky to trade her Writing and then hope for her to learn Map Making while I went for Republic. In hindsight I'm not sure this was best. A couple of people have reported pre-1000 dates for China getting Map Making. Anyway, I didn't trade with China, decided to keep her backward instead.

Upon learning Map Making in 1350 I rushed some galleys out to explore. They quickly met the three near neighbors of course.

Barbarians

I found the barbarians quite a challenge on the homeland. The Predator setting was probably part of this. I suppose my delay in building early warriors to patrol didn't help, and having only warriors available to deal with them (due to not researching nor trading military techs for a long time) compounded the problem.

For a long time I had a few warriors dancing with barbarians. By the time I secured the homeland with enough patrolling warriors to block the appearance of new camps (1100BC) I'd lost one worker and five warriors to the barbarians. I figured that wasn't bad all things considered.

The Great Lighthouse Decision

In 1650 I saw a scary sight, a barbarian galley. It seemed that somewhere in the world someone had already discovered Map Making.

I didn't yet have a coastal city capable of building the Lighthouse in a reasonable time, unless I sacrificied my settler or worker factory for the purpose. Otherwise it didn't seem I could build the Lighthouse before somewhere around 500BC, and it seemed very likely that an AI would build it before then. And if I started the build but didn't succeed, there wouldn't be any other wonder I'd want to switch to around that time. So I abandoned any thought of trying for the Lighthouse. I'd have to take my Golden Age later in the game.

As things turned out, Spain completed the Great Lighthouse in 925BC in my game. That was even earlier than I expected, and is earlier than other builds reported in this thread. The range of dates reported so far for AI Lighthouse builds is quite large. Perhaps the extra AI worker in Predator class was the main factor in Spain's early Lighthouse date in my game.

QSC Status

By 1000BC I'd expanded to nearly fill the homeland:



Nottingham had just this turn completed Forbidden Palace.

Stats at this date:
12 towns, total population 34
3 settlers
18 workers
13 warriors
6 galleys
2 granaries, 2 barracks, 1 forbidden palace
542g in treasury

Warfare

The homeland wasn't big enough to suit me. I wanted a separate second productive region. To get that it looked like I'd have to take land from someone else.

In 900BC I started to build chariots for subsequent upgrading.

I chose Germany as my target. France had better land but she was more advanced in technology than Germany and China and was stronger. And much of her land was still jungle. China had slightly better land than Germany but was also stronger. Germany was the weakest and also had the most towns larger than size one.

In 610BC I upgraded 20 chariots to horsemen. And in 570BC, the same turn as I began my period of anarchy, I invaded Germany. Just before declaring war I gifted her Republic, so that she'd be unable to whip her towns down to size one - I wanted to take them over, not destroy them.

This war was straightforward. At 430BC I'd reduced Germany to three towns. I gave her peace for two of them - I wanted to keep her in the game a bit longer to get a free Middle Ages tech for me:



Palace Jump

I'd already started shipping workers, warriors, and settlers to Germany. I joined a few native workers to Berlin, moved almost all of my military units there, and started setting up to fill in the surrounding lands with a ring 4 build to match my homeland's ring 4 around the Forbidden Palace.

And in 370BC, one turn before entering the Middle Ages, I jumped the Palace to Berlin. I know that some consider this an exploit but I don't, and I much enjoyed this particular jump, it seemed an especially good one :)
 
bradleyfeanor said:
I found coming up with a plan for RCP to be more difficult on this map than on any other I have ever played. Was this by design, Ainwood? If so: :goodjob: I really struggled with RCP: no matter what layout I chose, I seemed to end up with suboptimal placement. Either I couldn’t use the third cow without a temple, or my cities would destroy too many BGs, or I didn’t have enough coastal cities, etc.
Partially, but certainly not to the nth degree with BGs! The principle was that with it being a 'pelago map, players would move their capital off it eventually, so the timing of the palace move and the FP positioning towards the center of the island would be more important.
 
SirPleb said:
I'd already started shipping workers, warriors, and settlers to Germany. I joined a few native workers to Berlin, moved almost all of my military units there, and started setting up to fill in the surrounding lands with a ring 4 build to match my homeland's ring 4 around the Forbidden Palace.
Very nice, :goodjob: , I'm looking foreward to a screenshot of the lands around Berlin.

I have not read all the discussions about RCP and Forbidden Palace, but do you need the RCP around the FP? :confused:
 
To Zamint: You are correct, it is not necessary. I think Alan sums it up pretty well in his post earlier in this thread HERE. I am glad to know this. In certain games (like this one), not needing to worry about RCP can make a big difference. I could have settled the starting continent more optimally had I known RCP around the FP was unnecessary.
 
[ptw] 1.27f

With all the RL stuff happening in my corner of the World in October, I could tell I wasn't going to come close completing COTM5, so I abandoned it as I entered the MidAges last weekend, to start GOTM36. (Should have tried OCC for COTM5).

Anyway, with QSC reporting now active again, I took a little extra time to do the logging for this game. Ainwood is giving us choices in this one. Lots of Cows at the start, and a river. But not together! (That would have been an easy choice. :) ) My Scout moved and did not reveal any additional food bonus on the River (although I did see the Furs after 2 turns). I could be coastal with 2 cows, inland with 2 cows or on the River with 1 cow. Option 2 didn't seem that good (might as be coastal as not); I decided on the River for a couple of reasons: Capital is likely to be more central, more commerce in the Capital, free Aquaduct (always good), and I was leaning towards NOT doing a lot of combat in this game so Palace Jumping was less a part of the decision process. My first 3 cities have EXACTLY the same positions as Horragoth's (see this post ), so setting up a RCP4 situation.

London built a 2nd Scout and a 2nd Worker, then a Granary (finished in 2670). York was founded in 2430 (Granary first build) and Nottingham in 2150 (Warriors and Workers for a while).

Barbs were a bit of a nuisance; on one occasion London was pillaged and lost a pop-point. I established a stack of 2-3 Warriors in the closest hill space (eventually I realized there were horses there!), and they'd pick off Barbarians as they tried to come through. I did a similar thing to the East. Eventually I got some Archers out there, and with the Warrior stack, finally pushed the Barbs off my island. (No major barb uprisings at the Age turnover!)

Initial research was Writing at Minimum, learned in 2070 BC. I placed a Scout on the East coast and met a Chinese Warrior walking by on the adjacent land mass in 2310 BC; traded Alphabet for Masonry and 9 Gold. When I knew Writing I traded it for Bronze-Working, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code and 28 Gold.

Next was Map-Making at Maximum, learned in 1250 and a Galley was off to meet the Germans the next turn. Bismarck contacted in 1175 BC, traded Alphabet and 20 Gold for Wheel, then Writing and TM for Ceremonial Burial, Iron-Working, TM and 37 Gold. Went to Mao and traded Wheel for his TM and 47 Gold. Neither had any Communications, so it's looking like isolated islands for everyone.

Started research on Literature next, and had 3 turns left in 1000 BC. QSC stats: 9 Towns, 19 citizens, 2 Granaries, 1 Barracks, 2 Settlers, 8 Workers, 13 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Spearman, 4 Galleys. Know all 7 first tier Techs, Iron-Working, Writing and Map-Making. Not an incredibly fast start, but we'll work it.

Contacts came fast and furious right after the QSC period. Met France in 950 BC (finally decided to see if there was anything directly South!); and they had Communications with civ4. I learned Literature right about this time and since I had NO PLANS to build the Great Library, I had an additional valuable trading asset to gain Mysticism, Gold and WM's (but keep mine, ha-ha!) By 900 BC I had contacted civ5, who knew civ6. These two were slightly ahead in Tech, probably due to civ6 having built the Colossus. (Interesting - civ6 seemed to have the least amount of space to organize, which might be part of the calculation as to when the AI builds Wonders. I was eventually able to cut some Code-of-Laws time off from them, since they knew it already, then use that to trade for Mathematics from France, I believe.

I'd already pretty much decided to play a fast research game (with a Commercial twist!), so I traded or Gifted Math to everybody. This meant all 6 of the AI I'd contacted could work on Currency, Construction or Polytheism (hopefully all three between them) while I focused on Philosophy and Republic. I finally contacted civ7 around 700 BC (France's WM gave me their location), and found them to be way behind, so I traded/gifted them up to Math and Mysticism as well. We all seemed to learn Philosophy nearly simultaneously (700 ish), and I started on Republic (28 turns, initially).

Continued to explore, found an unclaimed island with some nice goodies on it and sent Galleys with Settlers over to claim it (still hadn't traded MY WM). 390 BC was a special year (I remember it well) - I learned Republic, hit SMTBP, started the revolution (7 turns, yeech!), checked F4, several had Currency but only 1 had Construction and nobody had Poly, No Trades, exit, get the 'Do You want to start a Revolution?' screen, say yes, go to F1, down to 4 turns (Yesssss!) Good so far. Go back to F4 screen. What do you Know! civ6 learned Poly and traded it to civ5 for Construction!! I trade Republic to civ6 for Currency, Construction, Polytheism and 200 Gold; now I'm MidAges. Gift the Scientific civs into the MidAges; two Techs are learned - Monotheism and Feudalism. I consider Monotheism nearly essential for fast research games (one advantage of Vanilla Civ over PTW), so Trade Rebublic and 700 Gold to a civ with Mono for it. No other civ will trade Feudalism for Mono, but that's OK in my book. Trade Republic around to get 3 Luxuries and Gold. I'd just landed a Settler/Spear on that island next to some goodies and a Barb Camp; now there's 24 additional barbs there, so I load the Settler/Spear back into the Galley to wait for the dust to settle.

So, Middle Ages in 390 BC, I'll be a Republic in 310 BC, and can pursue a fast Diplo or Space Victory from there. Hope to do little if any warfare, and use the Commercial trait and trading to fuel the fast research.
 
Well, I finally made it myself. Quick summary of AA.

My original plan was 20K, with the thought that too much emphasis is placed on coastal cities for the 20K city. While I don't think it can get me the prize, I decided to try something different. I would use London as a settler pump. (Should have done York as worker pump, but that didn't occur to me till too late)
With the primary goal of 20K, I figured I would also rush for 100K as fast as possible. Making a late middle ages decision based on how well I did getting stuff for my 20K city.
My 20K strategy was to see what happens. I will wage war in the pursuit of leaders and territory to fuel the 100K. The goal is to have enough troops to try and have a late middle ages conquest and then to settle in and milk towards 100K. If I decide on 20K I will slow culture production in the milking phase.

The initial expansion was fine. (Barbs were quite annoying killing 2 settlers, but with the 4 turn factory this didn't hurt too much)
My 20K city only got the GL and HG, so it looks like it might be 100K, but I will continue to build the 20K to see where it gets.

In 950, I had met China, Germany and a couple of the others. I also had 10 warriors poised for upgrade and was ready for Iron Working. I switched research and went all out for IW. I was building the GL, so I didn't want to trade with anyone.

I got IW and upgraded my warriors. I then sent them to invade germany.
I got the GL and immediately received Wheel, Masonry, Math, Philosophy, Code of Laws and Horseback Riding.

Since I am in conquest mode, I researched Monarchy myself, and then switched to it.

I entered the MA at about 30BC with most of Germany in my possession. My galleys and scouts have mapped much of the world, but I have purposefully avoided trading maps. Not sure if it was a good strategy, but it is what I did. I will trade for maps soon though.

I did get one leader so far in the German war. It was used to build an army and it got a victory, so I have Heroic Epic availiable when I can fit it into the 20K (soon I hope)

I was disappointed that Germany hadn't hooked up luxuries for me. That will have to be a priority.
 
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