Austrian UU's

About spelling: The only correct spelling for an Austrian/German Jäger is either "Jäger" or "Jaeger" (Umlaut rule). In France they are called "Chasseurs", in Spain "Cazas". These spellings are correct only in their respective languages when referring to their particular meanings. If you talk about a "Jäger" then "Jagar" would just be wrong. That's the only thing I wanted to kindly point out to you with my earlier remark. Its plain and simple spelling and grammar, no offence intended.

Austria had the Jäger before Prussia, yet those were almost insignificant in the Napoleonic Wars as Austria was not able to reach the front in time to support the attack against the retreating French. At the very same time Britain introduced their sharpshooter regiments. Yet it was the Prussians that came to Wellington's aid, and not the Austrians- hence the Jäger regiments did not get a chance to prove themselves in battle and would be decommisioned soon after the battle of Waterloo. One could say that this makes the Prussians be the first to actively use these troops in battle. The first formations of such troops in Europe was undertaken by Austria, though. As a final remark it needs to be said that already the American war of Independence (hence we still have the word "Gringo" being used when referring to US Americans, deriving from the 'Green Coats' of the early American militias).

Underpinning ones own opinions out of what one reads is certainly a needful venture. Its merely text analysis where one referrs to what has been written- if it doesn't appear in the text then it cannot be used- even if one would like to jump to conclusions keep it up though- you are quite good in argumentation after all, and you manage to make quite a number of good points, and I appreciate that U take the time to make your point of view count.

@Bungus: the Hussars were also using Pistols of some sort at a later time ... I love variety

as a late industrial/modern unit for austria i would suggest something like "gebirgsjäger" (german for mountain infantry). an alpine infantry, maybe something like that one in civ2.

as a middle age unit: perhaps a knight? the beginning of the rise of the habsburg dynasty is considered the battle of marchfeld, in which rudolf of habsburg had a battle with ottokar II of bohemia. one of the largest (in numbers) and a classical knight battle.

Bungus said:

Now both of these are from the late medieval, early industrial age. Any suggestions for early medieval/ancient(yeah, I guess they weren't around, but Austria's ancestors had to be up to something) or maybe even mid-late industrial (ww2)?

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Austria was part of the Holy Roman Empire, which was both Austria and Germany (Prussia) of the Civs represented in the game. But Charles V, the leader of Austria in this game, is an Emperor, so Austria might have more claim of being the Holy Roman Empire, if you only pick one.

BTW, what Civ traits would you use for Austria?

@W.i.n.t.e.r and RedAlert: Nice discussion, and good points, but I'm sure you'll agree that all units are better off using Swedish names.


Well, seriously, I think RedAlerts point about foreign UU's has merit, especially seeing as Austria was locked with Hungary in a union for hundreds of years.

The Deutschmeister Infantry, as illustrated here

would replace the Rifleman...

mrtn... actually they were "locked" for only 50 years of the 200 years that Hungary was part of the Hapsburg empire. After the "Ausgleich" of 1860something, the Hungarians had the Austrians by their b's...

There was "Prussian Fusilier" C&P unit made some time back... I have no idea if that would make a viable Jaeger replacement (since the Prussians, as has been discussed, also employed them), but it's a graphic that's out there at least, and thus, I hope, a helpful heads-up if not a good suggestion.

TopGun69 said:

The Deutschmeister Infantry, as illustrated here

would replace the Rifleman...

Click to expand...

Now that is a good one

@ Master Kodama: The Austrians looked very (!) different from the Prussians, in terms of uniforms. No good, unfortunately.

@Mrtn: Well, why not make a Swedish Jägare unit for Sweden ? Regarding the Austrian Civ: Why not rename it into Austro-Hungria and just add all units that apply to either civ... this change of concept would save some people some trouble- if we want to add units of the Austro-Hungarian times to Austria, that would be the easiest solution, IMHO.

Here we go...
@Winter: Wasn't the Jaeger used long after the early 1800's? I remember reading something about their uniforms from 1905 or so, from an online encyclopedia. I think the Hussar will make the 3rd slot for Austria's UU's. Oh, and I think you forgot to type your final remark about the American war of Independence heheh... guess it doesn't need to be said after all
@Jatibi: GerbilJaeger sounds the same as Jaeger, only less generic. I wouldn't want the name to be too specific.
As for the Knight, it makes sense, only that's already a unique unit for England (battle of hastings/big into chivalry for most of the middle ages), France (ditto, also, didn't stop using knights even after english longbows and firearms had rendered them obsolete), and Germany (I don't know.. Tuetonic order? Just seems fitting). Perhaps Austria should have the knight, not Germany. Don't know. Btw, firaxis's knight unit should be called heavy cavalry; "Knight" for a unit that's used by all civs is seriously Euro-Centric
@Louis: Yes, I agree about the holy roman empire. That's why I thought a early middle age UU would be appropriate. Traits? Idealy, Religous Scientific. But Religous is a bit overused, and a changed a few others, so I ended up deciding on Scientific Industrious, mostly for gameplay reasons.
@Topgun: Any reason for duetschmeister over the jaeger? and any animations that resemble this?
@Kodama: I recall seeing this. I'll dig it up and take another look

about the definition of "Jäger". german word "jäger" means "hunter" in english - it means they copied technics of a hunter, which meant their drilling wasn't that hard as the ordinary line infantry, they should fight more autonomously (like the french "tirallieur"). the early "jäger" troops were really recruited hunters, and their weapons were developed of hunting-weapons, their uniforms green. jäger became the word for light infantry.
today there are no more _purely_ "jäger" troops in german speaking countries - their role have now the "panzergrenadiere" (= armoured infantry riflemen) although there exist "jäger" formations in austrian and german army; specialized "light" (?) (mechanized or armoured) "infantry" still use the expression as a suffix: "fallschirmjäger" (= paratrooper), "feldjäger" (= military police), "gebirgsjäger" (= mountain infantry), and "panzerjäger" (= anti-tank troops)

so "jäger" are in a sense used until now, and the "Tiroler Kaiserjägerregimente" (= tyrolean hunter-regiments of the emperor) are traditionally bound to some "jäger" bataillions of todays austrian army.

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yeah, of course the abundance of "knights". i didn't thought of that, i play only with mods, mostly RaR, it's quite an advance over the regular civ.


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civ traits: hmmm .. i think, civ uses, when describing a civ with cultural traits that period, with a "large" or "expansive" influence in history, that period of history, where "a lots of pages are used in an epic history book for that specific country". in comparison to germany: well germany today isn't really that militaristic now
if you would describe austria with two cultural traits, i think of agricultural and ?. agricultural because of the heart of austriam empire and today austria is covered with mountainous terrain (60%). to make a rise in these conditions possible, agricultural.

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there is already an austrian civ here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=70375

Bungus, both the Hoch- und Deutschmeister and the Tirolerjäger were elite regiments of the K.u.K. Army (Austria's/Austria-Hungary's armed forces in the 19th century), so both would be more than acceptable.

If you ask me, I would give Austria it's own line of units, starting with a Pannonian Warrior (Utahjazz's Sarmatian) and then using Steph's "Generic" 17th and 18th century units (they're really Austrian), Loulong's Austrian Line Infantry plus of course alot of units whch haven't even been requested yet. I'm actually working on a massive Austrian request (yeah, more concept sketches! )...

Below is an illustration of a typical Kaiserjäger uniform.

Jatibi, yes there is already an Austrian civ in Conquest. However, I think Charles V is a very poor choice for the leader, because he was more Spanish than Austrian (even though he ruled both countries). I'd like to see a "real" Austrian Hapsburg prince, like Kaiser Franz Joseph I (he ruled over 60 years holding his empire together against all odds), Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand (yep, the one who was assasinated in Sarajevo), Kaiserin Maria Theresia (she stood up against Frederick the Great) or Kaiser Maximilian I (he expanded and maintained Hapsburg rule in a trying time of changes) or even Erzherzog Rudolf (he started the whole Austrian Hapsburg thing).
I think the Austrians deserve a better LH (Charles V could then replace Isabella for the Spanish - I've never really liked her) and definitely better units than the Hussar who doesn't even look like an K.u.K. hussar...

@topgun 69 i agree. i just wanted to point it out, that there is already something. i'm also not satisfied with this austrian civ.

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and it's: habsburg. with a "b" .. many native english speaking people write it with a "p", i don't know why sounds too hard in german just peanuts ...

about the Ha"ps"burg thingy! I know what you mean... I'm Austrian by nationality and know how to speak German, but I used the "p" instead of the "b" since everyone here posts in English. Wouldn't want to confuse anybody, you know?

BTW, I know your town... I used to live in Waiblingen for about 6 years before I returned to the States.

@Bungus: Yes, Jägers were reincorporated into the amred forces and serve in many armies of the world- they retain their elite status and are even the model for many a special ops units.

@Jatibi: Earliest Jägers were indeed hunters that were drawn into their respective country's militia, initialy as scout units or auxiliaries. The Amercian War of Independence and already the the war between France and Britain over the Northern American Colonies saw use of white locals to secure the vastness of the colonial territories (i.e. Canada, etc). Certainly military needs lead to the specialisation of entire regiment-sized units to adapt to huntsmen techniques when operating independently from their army corps. Good list of modern usage of the Jäger-concept, btw

Okay, think I got it all worked out. The top three Austrian UU's would be:
Grenzer-Flintlock infantry, Hussar-Flintlock Cavalry, Jaeger-early predecessor of the guerilla
Thanks for sharing info everyone.
Now all I need is to find a appropriate Jaeger graphic. To the unit forum!

Edit: What's a good time for the Austrian's Golden Age? Early Industrial, or late medieval?

The Tiroler Kaiserjaeger I posted in this thread are as accurate as it gets for your "Jaegers". And the Golden Age? Definitely Industrial. Think Johann Strauss, Kaiser Franz Joseph and all the scientific progress made in Austria. Even Sigmund Freud was an Austrian...

W.i.n.t.e.r said:

Hussar = Hungary

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Austria was Austria-Hungary at its peak.

I consider XVIII and XIX Century as their peak.

Rhye said:

Austria was Austria-Hungary at its peak.

I consider XVIII and XIX Century as their peak.

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Hmm, considering the Habsburg Empire once included Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal (for a short time), most of the Caribbean and the Americas, several Islands in the Pacific, etc I would say they had more than that one peak time you mention

besides, (if you read my previous posts) I already suggested to change Austria to "Austro-Hungria" if the Hussar should become an Austrian UU...

XVIII Century? Damn you italians and your roman numerals... (though they have given us Superbowl XL this year)
@Winter: "Austro-Hungria" just doesn't have a nice ring to. and the hyphen thing would seem out of place in a civ game, much like a ninja would seem out of place in this post
@Topgun: These tiroler jaegers, are they circa the second half of the 19th century?
Still haven't found a suitable unit to use as a jaeger yet...