Rise and Rule for Civ3:Conquests
- Thread starter Isak
- Start date
Pfeffersack
Deity
@ Ben Wilbur
See post #1061 and #1062 of this thread, you can solve the problem by renaming.We will of course deal with it in a patch.
See post #1061 and #1062 of this thread, you can solve the problem by renaming.We will of course deal with it in a patch.
Camber
Resident Family Therapist
I'd just like to announce that I found the Easter Egg in RAR. It is located in the [inaudible]. [muffle muffle]
[crash]
[crash]
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
*reserved*
Lkendter found already one easteregg as well
.
Lkendter found already one easteregg as well
.Hello all. I've been meaning to do this for a while and I just started. Being this is a new thread it's all the better since this post won't be buried on page 79.
The first thing that happened when I installed RaR was I felt overwhelmed. There were so many units and so much new stuff it was hard to keep it all straight. The biggest thing I think was figuring out the unit "lines".
In the epic game there were basically two lines: Defensive units and Offensive units. But in RaR there are a lot of branches and lots of variety. My goal with this post is to identify the unit lines and upgrade paths to better help understand it all. I am doing this for myself and I hope others find it useful.
I will list out each unit in order of upgrades, listing the A.D.M values as well as resources needed.
UU's and flavor units are not included at this point.
Foot Units
Early Defensive
Tribal Guardsman (1.2.1) => Spearman (1.3.1) => Pikeman (2.4.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Halberdier (3.4.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Early Offensive - Swords
Warrior (1.1.1)/Champion (2.1.1) => Swordsman (3.1.1 - Iron) => Medieval Infranty (4.2.1 - Iron) => Arquesbusier (4(5).2.1 - Salt) => Musketman
Man-at-Arms (4(4).2.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Early Offensive - Archers
Archer (2(2).1.1) => Long/Crossbowman (3(4).2.1) => Arquesbusier => Musketman
Early unit lines all combine to the main Musket-Infantry line
Musketman (5(6).4.1 - Salt) => Line Infranty (6(7).4.1 - Salt) => Rifelman (7(8).5.1) =>
Trencher (8(10).6.1 - Rub) => Infantry (9(12).6.2 - Rub) => Grunt (12(14).8.2 - Rub) =>
Modern Infantry (14(16).10.2)
Guerilla types
Patriot (4(5).3.1 - Salt) => Partisan (7(11).6.2) => Guerilla (10(15).9.2)
Middle/Late Amphibious line
Colonial Marine (6(6).3.1 - Salt) => Leatherneck (8(8).4.1) => Amphibious Infantry (10(10).5.1 - Rub) =>
Marine (12(12).8.2 - Rub) => Modern Marine (18(16).10.2)
Late game defenders
Machine Gunner (6(12).8.1 - Rub) => TOW Infantry (12(16).20.1)
Paratrooper line
Paratrooper (10(12).10.1 - Rub) => Airborne (14(16).12.1)
Commando line
Commando (14(12).6.1) => Special Forces (20(20).8.2)
Foot unit stategies
The biggest thing to realize as a difference from the epic game is the defensive power of foot units. It's not as strong. Infranty alone are not the end all-be all defenders, Cavalry can still take them out. One strategy is a mixture. Get some units with higher bombard rates like the Guerilla or Amphibious types. Mix with some bombard/artie types. Combined arms is a key. You will be using Muskets for offensive operations in RaR where you wouldn't even consider it in the epic game for example.
And what if you have limited resources? Living without iron is hard, no doubt. BUT, if you can make it to the saltpeter units (assuming you have salpeter) without a major war you'll be fine (outside of other problems like no railroads). Living without saltpeter is easier as the timeline is smaller to get to Rifles which don't require any. No rubber? There are a few late game units that don't require it like the Commando line and the ends of most other lines. So plan carefully your research to get to these faster or trade for what you need (or go get it!)
Mounted Units
The Main Horse line
Chariot (2.1.2 - H)/Horseman (2.1.2 - H) => Cataphract (3.2.2 - H,Iron) =>
Heavy Horseman (4.2.2 - H,Iron) => Knight (5.2.2 - H,Iron) => Cuirassier (6.2.3 - H) =>
Hussar (7.1.3 - H) => Cavalry (8(6).3.3) => Air Cavalry (18(18).8.6 - Oil) => Gunship (42(40).8.8)
Cavalier (6.2.2 - H,Iron) => Cavalry
Early Fast Horses
Horse Archer (4.1.3 - H) => Dragoon (6(6).2.3 - H) => Cavalry
Camels and Elephants
Camel Rider (2.1.2) => War Camel (4.3.2) => Mameluk (5.3.3) => Bedouin Raider (7(6).4.3) => Air Cavalry
Elephant Rider (4.1.2) => Knight
Mounted unit stategies
You have some interesting choices when it comes to mounted units. For the most part it's easy since most are all in the same upgrade line. The cavalier is an interesting choice for high attack early on but a long wait to upgrade to cavalry while other more powerfull units become available. It's also good to get some of the early "fast" units. The dragoon is a nice choice for good attack, speed and bombard).
Lack of resources, no iron. This would hurt early but by the end of the middle ages iron is no longer needed for mounted units. What if you have no horses? If you can hold off war until you get cavalry which require no resources you wouldn't have missed anything. If you can get Camels however they make a very nice alternative to horses (and they don't require iron either). Typically they have one less attack but one better on defense then their horse counterparts. Plus there is a variety and a full upgrade path all the way to Air Cavalry. All in all having just Camels isn't bad. Elephants are nice in jungle regions.
And speaking of jungles and mountains. Cavalry are useful far into the industrial era and early modern for a couple reasons: Tanks and Armor cannot move into jungles or mountains without roads and they are slower then cavalry. So a sizable cavalry army isn't automatically obsolete with tanks as in the epic game and should not be replaced any time soon, especially if you have an enemy with jumgle or mountains between you and him. Cavalry excel here where as tanks become sitting ducks.
Motorized Units
Tanks
Tank (14(14).10.2 - Oil) => Armor (20(20).14.3 - Oil) => Main Battle Tank (28(28).16.4 - Alum,Oil) =>
Modern Armor (36(36).24.4 - Alum,Oil)
Infantry on the move
Motorized Infantry (8(8).10.4 - Oil) => Mech Infantry (18(18).26.4 - Alum,Oil)
Motorized unit stategies
Now were talking! Bring on the tanks. But wait! As mentioned above, neither tanks or armor can move in jungles or mountains without roads. I can't tell you how many times this has messed me up. Because of this reason, cavalry hang around a lot longer, especially if you have jungles to plow through to get to the enemy. And the Mech Inf line are the best defenders in the game. These are the guys you want, hands down but TOW Infantry make a nice alternative if you are having resource issues.
Bombards
First set of numbers are Bombard.Range.ROF Second set is A.D.M
Main Line
Catapult (8.1.1/0.0.1) => Trebuchet (12.1.1/0.0.1) => Bombard (12.1.2/0.0.1 - Salt) =>
Cannon (18.1.3/0.0.1 - Salt) => Artillery (24.2.4/0.1.2 - Iron/Oil) =>
Heavy Artillery (30.3.5/0.1.2 - Oil) => Self Propelled Artillery (30.3.5/0.8.3 - Alum/Oil) =>
Radar Artillery (50.6.8/0.4.4 - Alum/Oil)
Resource Free
Light Artillery (21.1.4/0.1.2)
More to come!
The first thing that happened when I installed RaR was I felt overwhelmed. There were so many units and so much new stuff it was hard to keep it all straight. The biggest thing I think was figuring out the unit "lines".
In the epic game there were basically two lines: Defensive units and Offensive units. But in RaR there are a lot of branches and lots of variety. My goal with this post is to identify the unit lines and upgrade paths to better help understand it all. I am doing this for myself and I hope others find it useful.
I will list out each unit in order of upgrades, listing the A.D.M values as well as resources needed.
UU's and flavor units are not included at this point.
Foot Units
Early Defensive
Tribal Guardsman (1.2.1) => Spearman (1.3.1) => Pikeman (2.4.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Halberdier (3.4.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Early Offensive - Swords
Warrior (1.1.1)/Champion (2.1.1) => Swordsman (3.1.1 - Iron) => Medieval Infranty (4.2.1 - Iron) => Arquesbusier (4(5).2.1 - Salt) => Musketman
Man-at-Arms (4(4).2.1 - Iron) => Musketman
Early Offensive - Archers
Archer (2(2).1.1) => Long/Crossbowman (3(4).2.1) => Arquesbusier => Musketman
Early unit lines all combine to the main Musket-Infantry line
Musketman (5(6).4.1 - Salt) => Line Infranty (6(7).4.1 - Salt) => Rifelman (7(8).5.1) =>
Trencher (8(10).6.1 - Rub) => Infantry (9(12).6.2 - Rub) => Grunt (12(14).8.2 - Rub) =>
Modern Infantry (14(16).10.2)
Guerilla types
Patriot (4(5).3.1 - Salt) => Partisan (7(11).6.2) => Guerilla (10(15).9.2)
Middle/Late Amphibious line
Colonial Marine (6(6).3.1 - Salt) => Leatherneck (8(8).4.1) => Amphibious Infantry (10(10).5.1 - Rub) =>
Marine (12(12).8.2 - Rub) => Modern Marine (18(16).10.2)
Late game defenders
Machine Gunner (6(12).8.1 - Rub) => TOW Infantry (12(16).20.1)
Paratrooper line
Paratrooper (10(12).10.1 - Rub) => Airborne (14(16).12.1)
Commando line
Commando (14(12).6.1) => Special Forces (20(20).8.2)
Foot unit stategies
The biggest thing to realize as a difference from the epic game is the defensive power of foot units. It's not as strong. Infranty alone are not the end all-be all defenders, Cavalry can still take them out. One strategy is a mixture. Get some units with higher bombard rates like the Guerilla or Amphibious types. Mix with some bombard/artie types. Combined arms is a key. You will be using Muskets for offensive operations in RaR where you wouldn't even consider it in the epic game for example.
And what if you have limited resources? Living without iron is hard, no doubt. BUT, if you can make it to the saltpeter units (assuming you have salpeter) without a major war you'll be fine (outside of other problems like no railroads). Living without saltpeter is easier as the timeline is smaller to get to Rifles which don't require any. No rubber? There are a few late game units that don't require it like the Commando line and the ends of most other lines. So plan carefully your research to get to these faster or trade for what you need (or go get it!)
Mounted Units
The Main Horse line
Chariot (2.1.2 - H)/Horseman (2.1.2 - H) => Cataphract (3.2.2 - H,Iron) =>
Heavy Horseman (4.2.2 - H,Iron) => Knight (5.2.2 - H,Iron) => Cuirassier (6.2.3 - H) =>
Hussar (7.1.3 - H) => Cavalry (8(6).3.3) => Air Cavalry (18(18).8.6 - Oil) => Gunship (42(40).8.8)
Cavalier (6.2.2 - H,Iron) => Cavalry
Early Fast Horses
Horse Archer (4.1.3 - H) => Dragoon (6(6).2.3 - H) => Cavalry
Camels and Elephants
Camel Rider (2.1.2) => War Camel (4.3.2) => Mameluk (5.3.3) => Bedouin Raider (7(6).4.3) => Air Cavalry
Elephant Rider (4.1.2) => Knight
Mounted unit stategies
You have some interesting choices when it comes to mounted units. For the most part it's easy since most are all in the same upgrade line. The cavalier is an interesting choice for high attack early on but a long wait to upgrade to cavalry while other more powerfull units become available. It's also good to get some of the early "fast" units. The dragoon is a nice choice for good attack, speed and bombard).
Lack of resources, no iron. This would hurt early but by the end of the middle ages iron is no longer needed for mounted units. What if you have no horses? If you can hold off war until you get cavalry which require no resources you wouldn't have missed anything. If you can get Camels however they make a very nice alternative to horses (and they don't require iron either). Typically they have one less attack but one better on defense then their horse counterparts. Plus there is a variety and a full upgrade path all the way to Air Cavalry. All in all having just Camels isn't bad. Elephants are nice in jungle regions.
And speaking of jungles and mountains. Cavalry are useful far into the industrial era and early modern for a couple reasons: Tanks and Armor cannot move into jungles or mountains without roads and they are slower then cavalry. So a sizable cavalry army isn't automatically obsolete with tanks as in the epic game and should not be replaced any time soon, especially if you have an enemy with jumgle or mountains between you and him. Cavalry excel here where as tanks become sitting ducks.
Motorized Units
Tanks
Tank (14(14).10.2 - Oil) => Armor (20(20).14.3 - Oil) => Main Battle Tank (28(28).16.4 - Alum,Oil) =>
Modern Armor (36(36).24.4 - Alum,Oil)
Infantry on the move
Motorized Infantry (8(8).10.4 - Oil) => Mech Infantry (18(18).26.4 - Alum,Oil)
Motorized unit stategies
Now were talking! Bring on the tanks. But wait! As mentioned above, neither tanks or armor can move in jungles or mountains without roads. I can't tell you how many times this has messed me up. Because of this reason, cavalry hang around a lot longer, especially if you have jungles to plow through to get to the enemy. And the Mech Inf line are the best defenders in the game. These are the guys you want, hands down but TOW Infantry make a nice alternative if you are having resource issues.
Bombards
First set of numbers are Bombard.Range.ROF Second set is A.D.M
Main Line
Catapult (8.1.1/0.0.1) => Trebuchet (12.1.1/0.0.1) => Bombard (12.1.2/0.0.1 - Salt) =>
Cannon (18.1.3/0.0.1 - Salt) => Artillery (24.2.4/0.1.2 - Iron/Oil) =>
Heavy Artillery (30.3.5/0.1.2 - Oil) => Self Propelled Artillery (30.3.5/0.8.3 - Alum/Oil) =>
Radar Artillery (50.6.8/0.4.4 - Alum/Oil)
Resource Free
Light Artillery (21.1.4/0.1.2)
More to come!
move_quietly
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2004
- Messages
- 63
How about a post from some of the folks who have nice maps and scenarios to share here at the beginning of the new thread, anyone, anyone ? Would be nice to not have to search for them since that's something everyone is interested in with the new mod. 
Bart Simpson
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
- Messages
- 37
this is version 1.02, i started to build heavy frigs
Bart Simpson
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
- Messages
- 37
it was just a error in pediaicons 
stachnie
Theorist
I have noticed a minor bug. I understand that Tibet has traits that Babylonians used to have in unmodded CIv III but why do they build Wisemen Babylonian? I use 1.03 beta.
Best regards,
Slawomir Stachniewicz.
Best regards,
Slawomir Stachniewicz.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Are you playing Tibet and your wisemen are Babylonian? Or have you conquered a Tibet city with babylonian wiseman inside? Then it is likely that Tibet has conquered the city including the wiseman from Babylon.I have checked both wisemen, their tech prequesites and the connection to the civs, everyting seems to be correct here.However, regardless what the reaons for this is, it is only naming - all wisemen have equal abilities (the different versions are only necessary because of the game engine).
A trio of bugs to report (from 1.03Beta):
(1) The Colossus expires with the optional tech Ship Building. Is this intentional? The human knows not to bother with the tech and the Colossus functions forever. Might be a good idea to put the expiration on a required tech, or at least expire with an optional tech that has something good attached to it. IIRC, Ship Building just allows one of the myriad of Frigate variations.
(2) Likely pediatext error on American Infantry. Same effect as reported bug for Ship_of_the_Line, and likely the same solution. (Missing/superfluous underscores in folder name.) Can't be more specific, as it crashed my game just when I wanted to quit anyway and didn't investigate further.
(3) (Another ambiguous one
) One of the mid-Industrial Age techs is displayed as optional, yet is a pre-requisite for a required tech. That be unpossible. I think it is Screw Propeller, or at least in that part of the tech picture.
I really like this mod. Keep up the good work.
(1) The Colossus expires with the optional tech Ship Building. Is this intentional? The human knows not to bother with the tech and the Colossus functions forever. Might be a good idea to put the expiration on a required tech, or at least expire with an optional tech that has something good attached to it. IIRC, Ship Building just allows one of the myriad of Frigate variations.
(2) Likely pediatext error on American Infantry. Same effect as reported bug for Ship_of_the_Line, and likely the same solution. (Missing/superfluous underscores in folder name.) Can't be more specific, as it crashed my game just when I wanted to quit anyway and didn't investigate further.
(3) (Another ambiguous one
) One of the mid-Industrial Age techs is displayed as optional, yet is a pre-requisite for a required tech. That be unpossible. I think it is Screw Propeller, or at least in that part of the tech picture.I really like this mod. Keep up the good work.
T_McC said:(3) (Another ambiguous one
Yes, I've seen that one too. The tech tree says optional but it is in fact required. It's around that area near the middle to the right a bit.
Pfeffersack
Deity
1) Good observation.This should perhaps be fixed, since it can be easily exploited.
2) Maybe.I assume you have the PTW-extras in place (since you were able to play).
3) Yes, thats a known graphic error in tech tree.There is another tech with the same problem (Marxism or Unionization, not sure at the moment)
2) Maybe.I assume you have the PTW-extras in place (since you were able to play).
3) Yes, thats a known graphic error in tech tree.There is another tech with the same problem (Marxism or Unionization, not sure at the moment)
There's also electricity being a prerequisite for thermodynamics, which are on two different parts of the tech tree, and whatever tech needed for leonardo's workshop not requiring all the prereqs indicated by the tech tree. Pretty sure that second one's been mentioned though.
denyd
Emperor
I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would sure be nice if the really popular (DYP, R&R, WarHammer, etc) modpacks could become unique subforums in the modpack subforum. Having individual threads for bug reports, enhancement requests, help posts and game reports would make navigating the specific modpack a lot easier. Also adding a GOTM style subforum for competitive play on a common map or a HOF type challenge (fastest to space or earliest to research all techs) would help increase the interest in the modpacks. I think not begin able to read about and share thoughts on games being played has a dampening effect on playing modpacks.
>Most of the time I cannot resist rushing the International Port in a low production city >with a lot of sea tiles...
The extra sihields are nice, but I've found the most effective use is to take advantage of the extra food to bring a city with several mountains near the coast up to max pop. You can get cities this way that are more productive than any natural city could be.
With fishery and ComDock, each coastal square becomes the equivalent of a RR'ed bonus grass with +3 commerce.
The extra sihields are nice, but I've found the most effective use is to take advantage of the extra food to bring a city with several mountains near the coast up to max pop. You can get cities this way that are more productive than any natural city could be.
With fishery and ComDock, each coastal square becomes the equivalent of a RR'ed bonus grass with +3 commerce.
Awesome Mod all.. I have been playing Dyp for years and I love RaR even more.
Can somone refresh my memory? I have conquests patched to 1.22 and am playing ver 1.02 of RaR. I am playing on monarch level and have been in two wars (each time they shot first). Both times, I start my offensive and take one size 2 or 3 city and the computer raises all of its cities!
I have a huge population and culture lead and a moderate tech lead. I think my armie is large to the point of being scary too.
Is the computer just resigning? I seem to remeber this happens from time to time but its been a while since I played.
I think I will load 1.03 beta and try playing a couple of levels higher. Maybe if the computer feels it can beat the tar out of me they wont raise all of their cities when I take one.
Can somone refresh my memory? I have conquests patched to 1.22 and am playing ver 1.02 of RaR. I am playing on monarch level and have been in two wars (each time they shot first). Both times, I start my offensive and take one size 2 or 3 city and the computer raises all of its cities!
I have a huge population and culture lead and a moderate tech lead. I think my armie is large to the point of being scary too.
Is the computer just resigning? I seem to remeber this happens from time to time but its been a while since I played.
I think I will load 1.03 beta and try playing a couple of levels higher. Maybe if the computer feels it can beat the tar out of me they wont raise all of their cities when I take one.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Sounds very much as if you incidentially have 'Elimination' mode on. Played FoR before?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
@bonscott:
That's a pretty great synoosis, btw. Keep 'em coming.
Moderators: Obviously, both RaR threads were merged again. What is the policy now? 3000 posts per thread?
That's a pretty great synoosis, btw. Keep 'em coming.
Moderators: Obviously, both RaR threads were merged again. What is the policy now? 3000 posts per thread?
