COTM 12 Second Spoiler: Entering the Industrial Age

eldar said:

Dear me, there are some scarily fast domination dates around for this game!! Just goes to show, you put in what you think is a good performance, and the top players just prove it to be average!

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My feeling exactly.
I got a conquest victory in 960 AD with around 9700 Jason and was very happy with that, and then I see only 10K+ results posted in the spoiler
In my defense: I didn't hit anything with the scout so I settled 1 SE of the start and it took a while to get the settler factory up and running. Also, I seem to be terribly unlucky with GH popping in exp games. I'm just glad there aren't any settlers in GHs anymore

Più Freddo said:

I made similar trades in 170 BC (still a lot to learn), when I got Currency trough trade from the Portuguese. Did all of the above Civilizations already have Currency? I had to gift it to all of them.

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None did. Occasionally AI will choose to research Currency over Construction, but pretty seldom IMHO. It could have something to do with traits. I have a feeling commercial France chooses Currency which would make sense. Yet in my game their research abilities might have included bum scratching but definitely stopped short of stick poking and banana peeling.

Megalou said:

None did. Occasionally AI will choose to research Currency over Construction, but pretty seldom IMHO. It could have something to do with traits. I have a feeling commercial France chooses Currency which would make sense. Yet in my game their research abilities might have included bum scratching but definitely stopped short of stick poking and banana peeling.

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This may be spammy, but

Megalou said:

in my game their research abilities might have included bum scratching but definitely stopped short of stick poking and banana peeling.

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My France was the same. So you simply forgot mentioning that you gifted all Currency as well.

Class: Open

Goal: To practice fast domination, preferably never entering the
industrial age

Previous spoiler: Ancient Age

In the Ancient Age I filled my alloted empty space on the map, started
grabbing some of our neighbours' and researched towards Chivalry. I
entered the Middle Ages in 170 BC. This spoiler describes how I
achieved domination by 1110 AD, scoring about 6'500 Firaxis and just
below 10'000 Jason, still in the Middle Ages. I hope to do better next
time and have tried to analyse some of the mistakes I made.


France 70 BC -- 150 AD

Not yet having Chivalry couldn't stop me from taking on weak
France. With Horsemen and Swordsmen I capture the more interesting
Cities. The rest can wait. There's no Great Wonder to be had.


Portugal 10 AD -- 350 AD

I meet the Byzantines and ally them against Portugal, just to keep
them busy. A few turns later England, still unmet, declares war on the
Byzantines.


The Ottomans 300 AD -- 370 AD

The Ottomans have constructed The Temple of Artemis in 210 AD. Our
previous encounter has bereft them of Iron. So, what am I waiting for?
Ansar Warriors.

The very first attack, using an elite Horseman, creates my first
Military Great Leader, who promptly creates an Army. I carefully join
only two Ansar Warriors to the Army in order to be able to transport
it to the other continent using a Caravel. The attack on Istanbul the
following turn starts out less bountifully. Two catapults, two veteran
and one regular Medieval Infantry and one elite Horseman leave a
regular Swordsman alone to defend the city. Then, without losing a
single Health Bar, the Swordsman red-lines two veteran Ansar Warriors!
The third, and last available, Ansar Warrior duly kills him, gains
elite status and ushers in the Golden Age. Istanbul contains The
Hanging Gardens and the Oracle.

The war ends when I capture the last Ottoman City on the continent. I
have then captured the desired Temple of Artemis and created a second
Army using a Military Great Leader. This Army I fill with three Ansar
Warriors, which will later render it useless.


France 390 AD -- 430 AD

During the Golden Age, troops on their way from former Ottoman
territory to Russia exterminate France just as the peace deal ends.


Russia 490 AD -- 590 AD

The Russian campaign features left-over slow troops with Trebuchets
and Medieval Infantry going straight towards Moscow while Ansar
Warriors, five of them in two Armies, go around it, captured the rest
and join the attack on Moscow from the other direction just as the
slow troops arrive. The prize are the Pyramids in Moscow.


Korea 620 AD -- 740 AD

A few turns into the Korean campaign I leave my small Army alone and
red-lined in a just captured Korean City. A Korean Horseman kills it
and re-takes the City for one turn.

When I reach Seoul I'm surprised to see a Musketman in it. He is,
however, quite alone and not very long lived, dying at the spear of an
elite Horseman.

In the last year of this war I complete Leonardo's Workshop in
Damascus (located in the SE food and shields spot). It shall help me
upgrade my Ansar Warriors to Cavalry. An elite Horseman win finally
produces my third Military Great Leader, who creates an Army. It is to
be filled only after having travelled to the other continent.


Portugal 850 AD -- 1110 AD

The Byzantines have The Great Wall and, from 750 AD, Sun Tzu's Art of
War. Both could come in handy in the conquest of the other continent.
As my preparations, including rush-building a Barracks on the former
Korean east coast for massive upgrading and shipping, are almost done,
the Portuguese declare war on me.

The war is fought with Cavalry against Pikemen and some Muskemen. As
in previous wars, there are almost no counter-attacks at all. A few
Armies are created and put to good use. The English join in on our
side but can't bring their troops fast enough to the front line.

Towards the very end of the war, the Byzantines declare war on me and
capture a city I have founded an the open space they have left in
their land. Before I get the pleasure of paying back in kind, the
umpire registers my domination and we all go down to the beach and
have a barbeque.


Mistakes

1. Settling in place. The QSC result speaks for itself.

2. Not researching faster towards the Middle Ages

3. Not gifting France a Government Technology before I attacked her so
as to keep her Cities from shrinking to size 1 and being
automatically razed.

4. Not settling the conflict between keeping the Temple of Artemis
alive and getting hold of Caravels through Astronomy. The Temple
was made useless through research while I could still have use for
it, and I had to rush-build many Temples in former Korea. Good job
that they were cheap!

5. Not going for the Pyramids in Moscow earlier. They were created in
775 BC; I captured them in 570 AD, 83 turns later.

6. Not starting the next fight before the first one was over. This
might require a better feeling than I have at the moment for just
how many troops are needed to do the job. But moving even Ansar
Warriors from Russia to Korea took a lot of time.

7. Keeping the scientific Civilizations alive as OCC's was not mistake
as much as design: I was going through the motions in order to be
able to use this technique in a later game with a longer scientific
reach.

8. Not managing to choose my opponent in the final conflict. It should
have been possible to ally Portugal against the Byzantines before
it declared war on us and before we were ready to attack. Portugal
was more advanced and had Horses.

9. Not putting more defense in the annoying city we founded on a hill
in the back yard of the Byzantines. With Walls and a Cannon or two
it could have held out indefinitely agaist the small stacks of
Medieval Infantry thrown at it.

Più Freddo said:

My France was the same. So you simply forgot mentioning that you gifted all Currency as well.

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Yes, I think I wrote Map Making instead of Currency. That text were pasted from my log, written in a hurry.
That's quite a mistake list you have. Don't worry, with that kind of awareness you will improve your scores quickly.

4. Not settling the conflict between keeping the Temple of Artemis
alive and getting hold of Caravels through Astronomy. The Temple
was made useless through research while I could still have use for
it, and I had to rush-build many Temples in former Korea. Good job
that they were cheap!

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I razed the Great Library (in Paris) on purpose the turn two AIs got Education, just to keep the ToA alive.

In the beginning of the MA nothing much happened, I researched to chivalry as fast as i could and as efficient as i could.
Switched of the Great Library (pre)build I started to get Leo's. As suggested in the "Hunting tips" and started to prepare them horses for the "ultimate war".
The Ottomans finish the Pyramids in 230BC in Istanbul. As we explore around using Galeys we see on the land Korea beeing hammered by 15 or so barb Horseman, Pillaging improvements & killing units&workers.
This I do not believe Iznik, a city of 1 deposes me in 130bc while having a library (just finished the turn before by whiping using $$$) A change less than 1% accoording to CivAssist, Offcourse this is "the" iron town and we need it. So we break the peace deal which had 10 turns left with the ottomans.
but whip a library in Aydin to pull the iron into our borders
In 90BC we spot borders across the canal from Korea, muster up some guts and send 2 galeys across in 30 bc. One of the 2 is lost (the 3/3 one offcourse not the 2/3) but in 10 bc we finaly meet the Portugues and we trade Monarchy for 52g.
In 70ad we capture Istanbul including the Pyramids. I get a Leader of a defencive Horseman which was struck down from 5/5 to 1/5 by a 4/4 spear. We turn our second leader into an army.
In 170ad the french finish ToA in Parisand the Hanging Gardens in Chartes new targets
The ottomans are kind to us, they finish TMoM as well in Uskudar. Hmz, The Koreans get the wall.... I guess they will survive for a bit
The Portuguese built SoZ not good. Finaly in 280AD we DoW on France, attack one Warrior/settler combo to start the golden age & start the annihilation of france.
Now we are at war with 2 enemy's... But both are between a rock and a hard place, our first turn at war delivers 4 slaves and 2 towns. In 360ad we capture Paris with both ToA & The Oracle We get a free temple that is two content faces
The french have a small victory by flipping back lyons in 370, In that year we recapture it and capure the Hanging Gardens in Chartres. More Happyness and Capture tMoM in Uskudar, yet more Happyness and destroying the Ottomans.
Another victory for them darn french the next turn. Orleans flips back 0.8% Change! Finaly the french are down to a "Boated" civ Hunt down a galey with a settler. They finaly settle Amiens on the North tip of our continent and get killed in 450AD.
So after the french now the Russians (and their Great light house) are to be next! Subsequently in 480AD the russians have been send to the history books.
The great wall was founded in Seoul, to nullify that a bit we sign a RoP with korea so we can ROP Rape them, capturing seoul first before we have to climb all them walls.
In 500AD just before we start to kill Korea, Portugal finishes Tzu's.
In 510AD the portugues cross over the channel.
And so it was the great wall falls into our hands in 580AD. What was build over the course of time was taken in 2 turns. Korea has been removed from the map in 610AD.
The war on Portugal delivers us Tzu's in 680AD when we capture Lisbon. This will be nice and fast healing ...
SoZ is captured in 700AD in Oporto. The English are finaly met in 740AD as half the Portugeuse nation crumbles allready at our feet.
We temporarly sign peace with Portugal & Byzantines, with which we receive some city's as well. Now we turn our aim to England in 870AD. As they are an easier target and are "in the way"
After nearly taking out England we get a Domination victory in 930AD, which is a first for me I think to ever have had a domination victory in the MA. And also before 1000 ad.
I dont feel to bad about my first GOTM for some reason, atleast I got a win and at a level I never played before (I am a regent player normaly)

I did take a long time 20+ hours.

Oops, I guess I'm supposed to post here. I managed to get a Conquest victory in 12 hours. Details later.

I'm getting the impression scoring on this game is going to be very similar to COTM3. I'm a little curious if Jason bests for this date are based on settling in place, as that would inflate scores since most peope moved.

ancient age

I was the first civ to enter the medieval age on my continent, so I researched Monotheism first. Once the tech was done, Ottomans had Engineering and Russia had Feudalism. Russia still had a monopoly on their tech, so they refused to trade. I traded Monotheism with a few gpt to Ottomans for Engineering, and both were still not enough for Russia to part with Feudalism. So I contacted Korea and gifted them Currency. My luck ran true and they got Feudalism, reducing its cost and allowing my to buy it. Next research was set to Chivalry, but slowed because my first target I owed gpt and didn't want to trash my rep. After Chivalry I upgraded horses and went on the war-path.

Ottoman war 340AD-530AD
The first turn of the war I started my golden age and captured furs and silks. The Ottomans had built Hanging Gardens, Oracle, and Great Lighthouse for me. I left them with 2 cities, one of which was built on the other continent south of Portugal.

French war 530AD-590AD
As you can see, I declared on France the same turn I made peace with Ottomans, capturing gems on the first turn. The French war lasted only 7 turns as they had no iron and only 1 town above size 6. I captured the Pyramids in Paris and Mausoleum in another town. The French were destroyed in 590AD.

During this war I remembered I controlled the Great Lighthouse, so I sent galleys to search the waters for the other continent. I tried to follow the likely path the Ottomans would have taken, and eventually found Portugal in 590AD. I later contacted England in 630AD and Byzantines in 660AD.

Russian war 640AD-790AD
The Russians were by far the most difficult target yet. I probably should have gone after them first. They had no iron, but by this point they had muskets. Fortunately, they had only gotten gunpowder a few turns sooner, so there weren't many muskets. Furthur complicating matters were the Temple of Artemis, The Great Wall and Leo's had all been built in Moscow, making them even more formiddable. I traded for gunpowder and located their 1 saltpeter source in the desert north of Moscow. My war plan called for a strike through the center of their territory, first to Moscow, then to take their saltpeter source. The plan worked, and the rest of the war was just mopping up. The russians were destroyed in 790AD.

I turned off research for most of my warmongering to rush temples and ansars. But eventually I had enough gold, ansars, and Artemis that I started researching again. This would hurt me later.

Korean war 860AD-980AD
The Koreans had helped me earlier in the Medieval age, and by this point I didn't feel threatened by them either. I thought I might let them stay and be good trading partners. (I also felt like being nice to them after playing as them last month) But, alas, the 30 anar warriors I had at their doorstep were getting restless and needed something to do, so war was declared. The Koreans had muskets, too, but like Russia didn't possess too many to deter my progress. They also completed Knight's Templar in Seoul, but I captured that 3 turns later. Nothing went right for the Koreans, and those 30 original ansars only needed a handful of replacements to finish conquering my continent.

950AD was a productive year for my civilization. First, the Forbidden palace was finished in former Ottoman lands. I had to hand build it as I had no great leaders, yet... And during the tail end of the Korean war I finally got my first great leader. He immediately forms an army which is used on the next town so I could build the Heroic Epic. Then, in the same turn, another great leader appears, who builds an empty army which will wait for calvary. I can't believe it took me that long to get a leader after all the warring I had done, but I guess 2 in one turn made up for it. If the Forbidden palace had taken just 1 more turn, I could have swapped the sheilds for a wonder and rushed the FP in Seoul for example.

After the Korean war I own the entire continent except for 1 Ottoman town near ex-Korea that isn't even worth the trouble of taking. I enter builder mode, researching toward the Industrial age and building up the lands I have taken. I have only built 1 wonder, JS Bach's, complete in 1140AD, which cascaded Lisbon to complete Sun Tzu's on the other continent. At the time of this spoiler no other Medieval age wonders have been built. I enter the Industrial age in 1220AD.

This is the situation in 1220AD (nobody has navigation yet)


This is still as far as I have played. I just can't decide what to do next. My slow research and warmongering early in this age slowed a space or diplo win, and my building phase slowed a domination or conquest win. I own 50% of the land, from which every victory is possible (except 20K), but I haven't decided which next. This method of play is fine for a normal game, but doesn't get me any high scores with the Jason method. I will finish this one, but since I was indecisive, I started a Babylonian culture game one night which has just been too fun to put down. I should have enough time to finish this game when I'm done with that one. I would hate to get this far and not submit a finished game.

Megalou said:

That's quite a mistake list you have.

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That's what happens when you read spoilers.

Megalou said:

Don't worry, with that kind of awareness you will improve your scores quickly.

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Thanks.

@all:

Regarding settling in place I'm wondering if the conventional wisdom has now changed, at least for XOTM's, from "settling in place if you can't see something awesome" to "the grass is always greener on the other side of that hill". Especially the Dutch COTM would appear to have been trend-setting in this respect.

Is it nowadays really a part of the COTM competition to firstly go find the real or intended settling location?

Capt Buttkick said:

I got a conquest victory in 960 AD with around 9700 Jason and was very happy with that, and then I see only 10K+ results posted in the spoiler

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So what, today is Syttende Mai and 100 years of freedom from the Swedish King! Have a good one!

Well - I never reach the IA playing my preferred 100K with TOA, but as I have finished ..

Victory in 1400AD jason score 9805 and my highest!

Settled for just my continent, (plus a few islands gained through peace settlements)

I had always favoured scientific civs for 100k, and because of that had missed just how good the Arabs are!

The Ansar is a real fun unit, and compensated for my key weakness (everything in the wrong place). Also the cheeper cathedrals are not a bad compensation for cheaper libraries.

I even managed to remember to keep building military so I didn't get significantly attacked in the late game. (portugal sneaked attacked me but I could cope with one boatful at a time!)

Open

I eventually finished with domination in 560ad, sneaking under 13 hours playtime. I think I could have dropped a couple of hours off that if I had played the start half well.

Ansars really are the best, and the key to the game was getting them ASAP.

I had one leader, in 550AD: very useful.

Enter MA in 875BC. I trade for Monotheism and Feudalism and start Chivalry slowly to be able to save up some money. I am still undecided on victory condition.

I have 4 ansars and more waiting to be upgraded when I declare on Ottomans in 410BC. Most of their cities are building wonders since long so how much forces can they have?? I find out they dont have many...

I have a bad surprise in 330BC when my iron source is exhausted. I am not ready to connect the next source next to Korea.

Istanbul builds Pyramids in 290BC, for me to take it the same turn.

I attack France in 170BC and get my first ML. I guess that is a nice compensation for wrecking my reputation. I had an ongoing lux deal with them. I use the leader to rush Forbidden Palace in Orleans who has access to 4 Gems. I think I just made the choice to go for Space. This map has so much potential for research so why not use it?

Astronomy in 110BC. From there on 4 turn research on necessary MA techs except engineering that I can trade for in 30BC.

I take one by one the civs on home continent. Get two more MLs in 90BC and 90AD. I create ansar armies but only put two in each so I can transport them over to the other continent.

Declare on Portugese around 230AD. Get 4th ML in 290AD in the war against the Portugese. Build another army.

Enter IA in 390AD. I grant the entire age to the sci civs and I can eventually trade with Byzantines for Steam Power. Good thing they still accept gpt deal, guess they dont have contact with the others yet who will surely tell them soon about my treachery. Steampower allows me to get Medicine from the Ottomans. I trade Medicine back to Theodora who gives back all I gave her for Steam in the first place. Russia will predictably not part with Nationalism for any price.

On entering IA I have 44% of world area. I have valsed over most of the other civs with a small number of ansars (not more than 20 at any time). The focus was and is to keep 4 turn research and to continue with it during IA so I have built universities, courthouses etc. Did not have time to build much military nor cash to rush many temples.

Minimap from 390AD:

Good play, MiniMe. Looking at your MiniMap I wouldn't be too worried about rep unless you squandered your ability to pay gpt. It's a MiniMatter.

Seeing how small the Russians, Koreans and Ottomans are, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't meet the other continent at all.

@Megalou
For sure not possible to pay gpt with civs on starting continent. I hope you are right that they will never meet up with Theodora, who saved the day for me when entering IA. But they all have ocean travel now. Well, should have thought about that when I made beef bourgignon of the French.

Maybe I should grant Korea, Russia and Ottomans an inland city each and then take their coastal cities to landlock them. Hmmm that could be a good idea

MiniMe, great game. How did you achieve such fast research so early on?

@Offa
You saw A'AbarachAmadan's post, right. He entered IA 5 turns before me ...

But I am quite pleased with my Middle Ages in the sense that I managed to balance some war with very decent research. I have for the first time made extensive use of specialists. All those small towns on the outer spheres of my empire are at least home to a scientist (thanks to gotm players for all hints!). And this helps to shorten down research when you have several of these small towns.

The downside is of course that in order to get all these small towns, you need to kill your neighbours. Which means you wont have many trading partners to play with. I guess on lower levels (including monarchy I hope) this doesnt matter much since your neighbours are just in the way and are not able to research their way out of a paper bag. But from emperor I *assume* total research is quicker if you let the AI do some for you. If anyone has some opinions on this last point I would like to know.