Europe Becomes more like America everyday

Marla_Singer · Sep 15, 2005

Masquerouge said:
1. Yes, really. I'm talking about intra muros without cars, so I'm talking specifically about the density of the subway intra muros, because it makes it easier not to have a car intra muros, as you don't have to walk too far to go to the nearest station intra muros

That's rather pointless Masquerouge as 80% of cars in Paris intra-muros comes from Paris extra-muros.

2. Yes, since people in the suburbs have a car, they should take it to go to the nearest RER and use that to go to Paris. As I said, it's faster, cheaper and less polluting than getting stucked on the periph.

How is this faster and cheaper ? Do you think it's not expensive to park a car during a whole day in a car park ?

3. I don't believe you on the London system. You're just saying that to disagree with me The London system is as dense to London and the London Suburbs as the RER is. Thing is, London itself do not have a subway. So basically the London system is less dense than the Paris system, no matter how you look at it. And I won't even go to reliabilities and weird shapes (try being 6'5 in a London tub)

The only subway system that I have tried so far that could rivalize with Paris' is New York's. It's pretty dense, pretty cheap, and air conditionned ! Though it feels kind of bad knowing the amount of energy burned to maintain the AC, you've got to admit it's so nice in summer

What pisses me off the most in Paris is the segregation between the "City" and the "Banlieue". I can't bear this anymore. Parisians always talk as if they were only 2 million leaving between themselves and ignoring the 8 million people around. The Banlieue in Paris is almost considered as Soweto was in South Africa.

If you ban cars from Paris, you cut a bit more Paris from its banlieue. You increase the distance. You don't even realize how elitist this could be. We should break those walls between the 75 and the rest of the city, not reinforce them even more.

Talking about NYC, you were pretending Paris subway was as great as NYC subway, if not even greater than the NYC Subway. But I'm sorry, it isn't.

If New York had the same subway system as Paris, then the subway wouldn't go in Brooklyn, the Queens or the Bronx. Then the subway would stay in Manhattan and would go nowhere else. That's EXACTLY what Paris subway is.

Masquerouge · Sep 15, 2005

Marla_Singer said:
That's rather pointless Masquerouge as 80% of cars in Paris intra-muros comes from Paris extra-muros.

yes, that's exactly why we should ban them. Boooo bad cars.

Marla_Singer said:
How is this faster and cheaper ? Do you think it's not expensive to park a car during a whole day in a car park ?

Last time I checked most parkings close to RER stations were free.

Marla_Singer said:
What pisses me off the most in Paris is the segregation between the "City" and the "Banlieue". I can't bear this anymore. Parisians always talk as if they were only 2 million leaving between themselves and ignoring the 8 million people around. The Banlieue in Paris is almost considered as Soweto was in South Africa.

People in Soweto will be glad to hear that, I guess. And I was a strong supporter of reducing cars even when I lived in the Banlieue.

Marla_Singer said:
If you ban cars from Paris, you cut a bit more Paris from its banlieue. You increase the distance. You don't even realize how elitist this could be. We should break those walls between the 75 and the rest of the city, not reinforce them even more.

Why would it be more elitist ?

Marla_Singer said:
Talking about NYC, you were pretending Paris subway was as great as NYC subway, if not even greater than the NYC Subway. But I'm sorry, it isn't.

Oh yes it is.

Marla_Singer said:
If New York had the same subway system as Paris, then the subway wouldn't go in Brooklyn, the Queens or the Bronx. Then the subway would stay in Manhattan and would go nowhere else. That's EXACTLY what Paris subway is.

Yes, but Paris has the subway AND the RER. The RER goes to the suburbs. And that's not even talking about the SNCF trains.

Elrohir · Sep 15, 2005

Kosez said:
So, they are terrorists and you are not?
Deflating a tire is illegal and beating a hell out of a person is not?

How can people be so aggressive these days? Deflating a tire to SUV pisses you of, torture in G. Bay doesn't?
These people in Paris are just making their stance (which is totally legitimate, by my opinion and probably by town planners, tourists, residents, etc..., too).

Does anyone actually read my posts? I said, and I quote:

I wouldn't labe these guys as terrorists as they haven't yet crossed over into the great world of slaughtering civilians for ideological reasons.

Deflating a tire is illegal. Beating them up over it would probably be illegal too, but that's why you don't go around messing with people's cars. Peaceful protests are fine, but destroy property and people will get really annoyed.

If there is actual torture going on at Guantanamo Bay then I would condemn it. But the most I've heard of is a women in a bikini interrogating prisoners and acting sexy to make them mad. Not exactly dignified, but hardly torture.

I have no problem with people wanting cleaner air. If they were having a peaceful protest I really wouldn't care. I really don't care about your ideas. But when your ideas involve inconveniencing me and destroying my property, then I care.

GrandAdmiral · Sep 15, 2005

I don't think this is terrorism but it is certainly stupid and deserves punishment. If its vigilante justice then so is a good smack across the face if you get caught. You don't mess with a man's ride, thats just common sense.

luiz · Sep 15, 2005

GrandAdmiral said:
I don't think this is terrorism but it is certainly stupid and deserves punishment. If its vigilante justice then so is a good smack across the face if you get caught. You don't mess with a man's ride, thats just common sense.

Indeed.
Why are SUVs so bad anyway? Because most owners don't need it? Well, nobody needs wine, or a DVD player or countless other things.

I'm sick of fascists telling me what I can and what I can't have. If I like big 4x4 cars and I can afford them, I'll surely buy them and all those eco-nazis can go to hell.

Steph · Sep 16, 2005

luiz said:
Why are SUVs so bad anyway?

Pollution? Oil scarity in the future? Dangerous to others in case of accident?
Takes larger spot to park? To noisy? Damage the brain of the users?

Well, DVD player or countless other things.

The impact of a DVD player on the environment is a little less than a SUV

I'm sick of fascists telling me what I can and what I can't have. If I like big 4x4 cars and I can afford them, I'll surely buy them and all those eco-nazis can go to hell..

Well, they are probably sick of egoist people who think only of their own pleasure without thinking of the society in which they live. And if Hell exists, I'm not sure you will be the last there with such reasoning

Hakim · Sep 16, 2005

I found it hard to get worked up about SUVs.

Steph said:
Pollution? Oil scarity in the future? Dangerous to others in case of accident?
Takes larger spot to park? To noisy? Damage the brain of the users?

These problems are more efficiently handled by petrol taxes and general regulations instead of attacking a specific car type or user.

The Last Conformist · Sep 16, 2005

Well, unless, they've changed them recently, American regulations encourage the driving of SUVs.

I still want to know what's "American" about these punks' behaviour.

storealex · Sep 16, 2005

Newsflash:

Places in the world is becoming more like other places of the world.

luiz · Sep 16, 2005

Steph said:
Pollution? Oil scarity in the future? Dangerous to others in case of accident?
Takes larger spot to park? To noisy? Damage the brain of the users?

BS.
My family has a Ford Explorer and a Fiat Tempra. Recently we had to have both cars checked, to renew the license.
Guess which one pollutes more? The Tempra, by very very far.

Fact is a modern SUV will pollute less then an old car. And the Tempra isn't even that old, it's from 1999.

Imbeciles will call me the devil fro having an Explorer, and yet nobody ever criticised me because of the Tempra. Why? Well, because imbeciles are, after all, imbeciles.

Steph said:
Well, they are probably sick of egoist people who think only of their own pleasure without thinking of the society in which they live. And if Hell exists, I'm not sure you will be the last there with such reasoning

Here's news: if I have the money and it's within the law, I'll do as I please.
And I for one don't believe in hell, though that's an appropriate place to tell econazis to go.

luiz · Sep 16, 2005

The Last Conformist said:
I still want to know what's "American" about these punks' behaviour.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that the OP made the american reference about the part of the article that mentions that SUVs are increasingly popular in France and Europe as a whole. (and there is an increasing reaction to it)

Bozo Erectus · Sep 16, 2005

luiz said:
BS.
Fact is a modern SUV will pollute less then an old car.

The problem with SUVs is more with the amount of gas they consume, not how much pollution they emit. The more gas we need to power our needlessly large vehicles, the more money is transferred to Saudi Arabia. The more money sent to Saudi Arabia, the more they can finance global terrorism.

cgannon64 · Sep 16, 2005

That's just what I love to hear about: Jerks hiding behind a philosophy.

HighlandWarrior · Sep 16, 2005

what if you have four small children, are you supposed to hire a driver if you want to take them to the football game?

I think everyone should drive an SUV, then saudi arabia will run out of oil.

luiz · Sep 16, 2005

Bozo Erectus said:
The problem with SUVs is more with the amount of gas they consume, not how much pollution they emit. The more gas we need to power our needlessly large vehicles, the more money is transferred to Saudi Arabia. The more money sent to Saudi Arabia, the more they can finance global terrorism.

Our Explorer and our Tempra have roughly the same gasoline consumption.
And that's because the Tempra is not very old. The car we had before the Tempra, a 1989 Chevrolet Monza, consumed more then the Explorer.

Would those freaks flatten the tires of my Monza or of my Tempra?

luiz · Sep 16, 2005

HighlandWarrior said:
what if you have four small children, are you supposed to hire a driver if you want to take them to the football game?

That's of course a valid point, but you don't have to justify buying a SUV.

Bozo Erectus · Sep 16, 2005

They should. Nahh, j/k. I only have real animosity towards people who drive Hummers.

The Last Conformist · Sep 17, 2005

HighlandWarrior said:
what if you have four small children, are you supposed to hire a driver if you want to take them to the football game?

Never heard anyone use that to justify buying a SUV before. It is the usual reason cited to get a minibus.

Or you could do as my parents did, and get a volvo combi with extra seats mounted in the luggage area. (Yes, I do realize that a modern SUV, at least if on the smaller side, guzzles less gas than that monster did. That wasn't the question.)

The Last Conformist · Sep 17, 2005

luiz said:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that the OP made the american reference about the part of the article that mentions that SUVs are increasingly popular in France and Europe as a whole. (and there is an increasing reaction to it)

That would make sense.

Mise · Sep 17, 2005

HighlandWarrior said:
what if you have four small children, are you supposed to hire a driver if you want to take them to the football game?

Four small children can fit in the back seat of most hatchbacks and saloons.

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