SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

Well, it appears like we are in agreement, so I'll go ahead and start.

You do that.
If you play 10 turns you'll be done when the first settler is finished. Then we can regroup and start discussing town placements and further production.

EDIT: Oh, and remember when you check the spread sheet that you get the benefit of a mine before the IBT. So when the sheet says you should work two mined BGs and there is only one, then the other one is the one that the workers are currently improving.

Niklas said:

EDIT: Oh, and remember when you check the spread sheet that you get the benefit of a mine before the IBT. So when the sheet says you should work two mined BGs and there is only one, then the other one is the one that the workers are currently improving.

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Now you tell me! You realize how long I sat there hesitating to end the turn? I figured that was what would happen but man was it nerve wracking.

Lol! Got too used to CivIV and not Alt-Tab’ing back and forth. Feels kind of weird having all the old programs running again. Typical setup: SGOTM9 thread, game, CAII, Word, and sometimes Paint.

3050 BC (-1): Wake the bonus worker, though he doesn’t have any movement left this turn. Make sure citizens are set right.

3000 BC (0): Interesting, India is willing to negotiate. Move the worker to help finish the mine. Other worker starts roading. Was a little worried about whether the mine would finish before production was calculated. Interesting.
IT: The Mongols meet us (they’re up Mysticism).

2900 BC (2):
IT: Smurkheim grows.

2850 BC (3): Worker 1 finishes the road and begins a mine. Set slider at 5/2/3.

2800 BC (4): The two workers finish the mine. One heads SE, SE, E. The other heads SE, E, NE.
IT: Smurkheim Granary>Settler

2750 BC (5): Both workers start work on a road.
IT: Ottomans meet us.

2670 BC (7):
IT: Smurkheim grows.

2630 BC (8): The two workers finish their road. One starts watering while the other moves NW and N.
IT: Smurkheim Settler>Settler

2590 BC (9): Settler NE, NE, NE. Worker 1 finishes mine, moves S, S. Worker 2 begins watering.

2550 BC (10): Worker 1 begins road.

Notes:
-Settler still has full movement. I wasn’t for sure if this was where we wanted him so decided it’d be best just to wait.
-Figured the next settler would be near the game and oysters, so have started sending a road that way.

Not for sure about city placement so I figured I’d suggest a few. Here they are…



The settler is sitting where New City #1 is.

Here's our trade possibilities. Didn’t make any as I wasn’t for sure if I should. I’m used to C3C and waiting until I almost have Philosophy finished before trading anything.



Here’s the save.

Methos said:

Now you tell me! You realize how long I sat there hesitating to end the turn? I figured that was what would happen but man was it nerve wracking.

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Well, you probably learned it for life this way, eh?
Well played, things are looking good for us.

I think your suggested town placements are good. The one to the SE will not be RCP 3, but perhaps a coastal town at rank 4 (three towns closer to capitol) will be better than a non-coastal at rank 1?

Won't have time to post much more today, will be back in tomorrow.

EDIT: Oh, and the roster:

• WarDance
• Methos - Just Played
• CommandoBob - UP!
• zyxy - On Deck!
• ControlFreak
• Niklas

@CF: I switched you and me since you wanted to be sure you'd get to play before Thanksgiving. It shouldn't be a problem to reach you in the roster by then (and you wouldn't get to play twice in any case).

What did we average in SGOTM8? About a turnset a week?

Methos said:

What did we average in SGOTM8? About a turnset a week?

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Nah, we played 29 turnsets in 85 days, that's just below 3 days per turnset. During some parts we clearly played slower than that, but I don't think any one turnset took more than 5 days.

Isn't city site 1 distance 2? Or am I reading that wrong?

Edit: never mind, I see it now. My eyes are tired and sleepy.

Regarding tech trading: Since this is a science game should we try and be very generous with tech trading? What I mean is get new techs into the hands of our rivals quickly to keep their research pace up. It doesn't help us at all for the other civs to research things on their own that we already have. We need all the help we can get with research and if we can get the others to research a couple techs for us it will speed things up.

Niklas(to Methos) said:

You do that.
If you play 10 turns you'll be done when the first settler is finished. Then we can regroup and start discussing town placements and further production.

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I know I'm up, but....
town placements and further production need to be discused first.

And of course the most important thing of an extremely non-critical nature: what to name the second town.

• Smurkzenstiein
• Smurkzville
• Smurkzburg
• Smurkzwood
• Smurkzington
• Smurkzboro
• Smurkz Fe
• El Smurkz
• Los Smurkz
• San Smurkz
• Key Smurkz
• St. Smurkz
• Cape Smurkz
• Smurkz Point
• Smurkzport
• Port Smurkz
• Smurkzport News
• Fon du Smurkz
• Smurkz Lake City
• Truth or Smurkzences
• Smurkz Creek Pass
• TallaSmurkze
• Ft. Smurkz
• New Smurkz

Ha! Good one, CommandoBob. I'm with Ft. Smurkz or... just go down the list. Or corrupt whatever the default Viking name is that pops up.

Completely off topic: Niklas I was wondering if you know of the singer Jens Lekman. He's from Goteborg, although I'm not sure if he lives there still or not

Niklas said:

@CF: I switched you and me since you wanted to be sure you'd get to play before Thanksgiving. It shouldn't be a problem to reach you in the roster by then (and you wouldn't get to play twice in any case).

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Thanks, Niklas! I'm itching to play.

Methos, sounds like a good turnset! I agree with Niklas that we're looking really good.

I'm wondering what the rational is for City site 1. I know it gets the fish that way but if we move it 1 tile NW, we get the cow in the first radius and a free aquaduct. It'll still be on the coast and at RCP3, just without the fish.

I would see if we can buy mystism from the Mongols at any cost. Then trade for Bronze and Masonry. I'm leaning toward giving Alphabet and Pottery away but the minute we do that, the AI will show up with Wheel and IronWorking. It might be better to keep Alphabet because then India has a bigger chip in the game. (Have we figured out if they've met anyone?)

I'll have more time to look at the save later today after my meetings.

ControlFreak said:

I'm wondering what the rational is for City site 1. I know it gets the fish that way but if we move it 1 tile NW, we get the cow in the first radius and a free aquaduct. It'll still be on the coast and at RCP3, just without the fish.

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I agree. I think on the lake with the cattle tile is a better spot.

I agree with WarDance agreeing with me.

(Trying to catch up to him on the "Who's Posting" Report. )

I'm not so sure I agree with your agreement.

Yes, being next to the cattle will be better in the short run. Yes, being next to the lake means a free aqueduct, but that won't come into play for some time to come. And in the long run, being where the settler is now means we can work more tiles, including a fish. And with the four-turn factory, it won't be long until we can plop down a town NW of the cattle, bringing it into the range of our second town anyway.

I vote settle where we are. I don't feel strongly about it either way though, so if the team wants a lakeside resort, fine.

@CB: Great list, we can't use the ordinary boring names.
Putting on the boring hat, I'd say about half the names you list are useful. We don't want names that are too similar, then we won't learn to differentiate properly. Smurkzville, Smurkzington, Smurkzburg, Smurkzboro, the danger is that they will all just mesh together in a smurky soup. But the names that really stand out, like Smurkzenstein, Smurk Lake City etc are just brilliant!

Here are a few more:
Viking-like:
Smurkyavik
Smurkenhavn
Smurkznes

Americano:
Smurklahoma
Smurkzas City
Missismurkzi
Milsmurkzee
Smurkadelphia
Smurkzapulco

English:
Smurkz-upon-Smurk
Smurkzcastle
Smurkziff
Smurkchester
Smurkzgow

European:
Smurkzawa
Gsmurzk
Vladivosmurk
Smurkzgrad
Zmurkgreb
Smurkzopolis
Smurkzaloniki
Smurkziago
Smurky Carlo

Asian:
Smurkzicanopel
Ismurkzhabad
Abu Smurkz
Angkor Smurkz
Smurkohama
Smurkyoto
Hirosmurkzima

This was just off the top of my head, I don't think we'll risk running out of ideas.

And being in Texas I'm thinking... San Ansmurkzio

I think I like -delphia the best.

But would it Smurkadelphia or Smurkzadelphia?

CB, that's all up to you!

EDIT: Seeing how you will probably settle three towns during your turnset, you'll have to decide on two more of them as well!

Regarding tech trades:

Mongols will not give us Mysticism for any less than Alphabet, 66 gp and 1 gpt. We could then presumably trade it around for BW, Masonry and 17 gp, which is what the others have. We could then also sell Masonry back to Mongols for some of the lost cash, though probably not all of it, and certainly not the lost gpt.

Going the other way around, Ottomans will give us Masonry, BW and 17 gp for Alphabet. We could then probably trade Alphabet and Masonry and most likely some gp as well for Mysticism with the Mongols. I think it's likely that this approach will be more beneficial to us, and we won't need to spread Mysticism all around.

The third approach is to not trade too much. We should be able to catch up fairly fast, the question is how fast we want to push the others ahead before they meet India. We want Writing fast so we can start trading contacts, but there's no way we're going to beat the min run.
We could trade Alphabet for BW, Masonry and 17 gp with the Ottomans and not do the trade for Myst, thus keeping the money back home. I'm leaning towards this alternative, but I'd like to hear more input on the matter.

Niklas said:

CB, that's all up to you!

EDIT: Seeing how you will probably settle three towns during your turnset, you'll have to decide on two more of them as well!

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Three? Maybe I can sneak in Smurkzfurt (European) and Iwo Smurkz (Asian).

RCP
We are building the Indian core, so how important is RCP to us? New City 1 looks to me like it is at a distance of 2 (NE 1 + E 1.5 = 2.5 round down = 2), but the other cities look to be at three.

Or should we be worried at the RCP from Delhi?

I'm back, just had a quick look at the save, and a much longer look at the thread. Great discussion and play!

EDIT: crossposted with Niklas.

Trades: Mongols want Alphabet + 63 gold + 1 gpt for Mysticism, so they may be close to researching Alphabet. Ottomans will give Bronze + Masonry + 17 gold for Alpha. Techcalc says that the beaker value of Bronze + Masonry is 56 + 90=146 (for us). The monopoly value of Alpha is 133 beakers (for us, so it should be less for Ottomans! I think 120 beakers), so I am somewhat confused about the Ottoman deal.
I would make the deal with Ottomans, and then see what else is available. Maybe Ironworking shows up, who knows... I would not spend cash on techs at this moment. Cash is better spent on embassies once we get ready to fight. We can safely "ignore any hollow threats" at the moment, so we can keep a cash surplus.

Is there a reason why our research is at 20%? It doesn't matter now, but may matter in the future. Better set it to 10%?

Our workers should mine the 2 bg's near Smurk soonish, our new town(s) can use them. Irrigation towards the game is a good objective as well, the town there would be a good settler/worker factory. Irrigating plains is not really a high priority IMO, better do the bonus squares first (but of course build roads on the way there).

Luxes: we should be able to get incense, ivory and dyes without too much trouble. Ottomans have spices, so they make a good target for the distant future. I would not be surprised to find at least one-two more lux on our continent, so a republic might well be possible after all .

Cities: the new city could build a few MP's (warriors), so that lux tax can be lowered. I agree with Niklas to build the four towns proposed by Methos, plus a town 1 tile NW of the cattle. The two towns near India should perhaps chop/whip a quick temple and later a lib as flip insurance - is it possible to push back the borders of a capital?
For the medium term: there are two natural chokes. We should plop two cities there soon after our core is up, and then backfill:


Scouts: move both west, to look beyond Carthage in their north and south. The southern scout could spend some time to uncover the big black patch to its southwest. We could use another scout or warrior to scout to the south of our capital, perhaps there are good city sites or resources.