Niklas said:While commuting earlier today I had a look at some MMing that could be done in the northern core. I didn't have time to go through all towns, but it's something.
Wow, all that just from commuting?
SGOTM 9 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Wow, all that just from commuting?
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
My two cents worth:
(Answering my own question)
Spain has Literature. Turn 9 it said they lacked it at first contact but America had it. My guess is they traded for it.
Since we don't know how long San Fran was working on the Collosus before Spain finished it, I think we must investigate. It's possible that they could finish a few turns after Madrid in which case there's nothing we can do about losing the Great Library to the Cascade. The same applies for Entremont since both are coastal. Our advantage is that the Great Library is 100s more than the Hanging Gardens so we get a few more turns to catch up but we need to focus all efforts on Grad to get it to it's full potential.
Warning: Worker Disertation
That bring me to workers. (I hate to harp on this again, but if it's the only thing I know, it's my only contribution to the team.) We need to group workers in stacks large enough to finish their task quickly. Looking at the save, almost all workers are doing something (animations for mining/irrigating etc.) That means we have a lot of tiles half finished, instead of half of a lot of tiles finished.
One example is near Grad which is now in critical need of sheilds. It has access to a forest, but the forest will be chopped in two turns and won't have a mine for at least three more. It's also has a hill being mined but won't finish for 3 more turns.
I'll assume the worker pairs started together. That means the hill miners in Grad started 3 turns ago. Nearby, two more workers are mining another hill that started 2 turns ago and there are two more workers choping a forest that started 3 turns ago. Since the hills are roaded and the forest is not, I will assume that the hill workers started roading first and started mining when the road completed. The forest workers just moved to the forest Three turns ago.
By keeping everyone in pairs and finishing the forest with a mine then a road and moving out of the area when their done with their tasks, we generate 65shields over the next ten turns, 47 of them in Grad.
But, by grouping them to first mine the Grad hill, then mine the Albu hill (1 worker would be wasted so he starts chopping on turn four), then chopping the forest, then 3 miners and 1 roader, we generate 76s (17% improvement) over the next 10 turns, 54 (15% improvement) of them in Grad.
What we lose is that the forest road has 1WT left to finish on turn 10, other towns nearby could have had 6WTs extra (10% of the total WT)
If these were corrupt towns, the 10% WT would be more important than the increase shields which would all be corrupt. But the towns we're improving now are our core towns. If we finish 1 tile, the town immediately reaps the benefit. If we partially finish 2 tiles, then both towns are waiting for a benefit.
Map Stat says we've got 23 towns working unimproved. They are working a total of 31 unimproved tiles. 21 of the unimproved tiles are partially improved. Had we grouped workers to finish tiles in one or two turns, I think we would have had much fewer towns working unimproved tiles, and much fewer partially improved tiles.
Ideally, we have mining crews of 3 or 6, irrigating crews of 4, and enough road units that they can have a newly roaded tile available for each mining/irrigating crew.
Also watch for sequences like: 1 worker finish a road, 3 workers move to it and start irrigating, next turn road worker does the fourth WT of the irrigation and the three workers move on to start a mine or if needed, a new road. At this point, I'd rather be a little wasteful of WT and actually get fewer tiles done faster. We have too many core cities working unimproved tiles.
(Answering my own question)
Spain has Literature. Turn 9 it said they lacked it at first contact but America had it. My guess is they traded for it.
Since we don't know how long San Fran was working on the Collosus before Spain finished it, I think we must investigate. It's possible that they could finish a few turns after Madrid in which case there's nothing we can do about losing the Great Library to the Cascade. The same applies for Entremont since both are coastal. Our advantage is that the Great Library is 100s more than the Hanging Gardens so we get a few more turns to catch up but we need to focus all efforts on Grad to get it to it's full potential.
Warning: Worker Disertation
That bring me to workers. (I hate to harp on this again, but if it's the only thing I know, it's my only contribution to the team.) We need to group workers in stacks large enough to finish their task quickly. Looking at the save, almost all workers are doing something (animations for mining/irrigating etc.) That means we have a lot of tiles half finished, instead of half of a lot of tiles finished.
One example is near Grad which is now in critical need of sheilds. It has access to a forest, but the forest will be chopped in two turns and won't have a mine for at least three more. It's also has a hill being mined but won't finish for 3 more turns.
I'll assume the worker pairs started together. That means the hill miners in Grad started 3 turns ago. Nearby, two more workers are mining another hill that started 2 turns ago and there are two more workers choping a forest that started 3 turns ago. Since the hills are roaded and the forest is not, I will assume that the hill workers started roading first and started mining when the road completed. The forest workers just moved to the forest Three turns ago.
By keeping everyone in pairs and finishing the forest with a mine then a road and moving out of the area when their done with their tasks, we generate 65shields over the next ten turns, 47 of them in Grad.
But, by grouping them to first mine the Grad hill, then mine the Albu hill (1 worker would be wasted so he starts chopping on turn four), then chopping the forest, then 3 miners and 1 roader, we generate 76s (17% improvement) over the next 10 turns, 54 (15% improvement) of them in Grad.
What we lose is that the forest road has 1WT left to finish on turn 10, other towns nearby could have had 6WTs extra (10% of the total WT)
If these were corrupt towns, the 10% WT would be more important than the increase shields which would all be corrupt. But the towns we're improving now are our core towns. If we finish 1 tile, the town immediately reaps the benefit. If we partially finish 2 tiles, then both towns are waiting for a benefit.
Map Stat says we've got 23 towns working unimproved. They are working a total of 31 unimproved tiles. 21 of the unimproved tiles are partially improved. Had we grouped workers to finish tiles in one or two turns, I think we would have had much fewer towns working unimproved tiles, and much fewer partially improved tiles.
Ideally, we have mining crews of 3 or 6, irrigating crews of 4, and enough road units that they can have a newly roaded tile available for each mining/irrigating crew.
Also watch for sequences like: 1 worker finish a road, 3 workers move to it and start irrigating, next turn road worker does the fourth WT of the irrigation and the three workers move on to start a mine or if needed, a new road. At this point, I'd rather be a little wasteful of WT and actually get fewer tiles done faster. We have too many core cities working unimproved tiles.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
BTW, there is a barb coming from the southern mountains. Send a sword there to cut him off so he either attacks at great disadvantage, or moves to the grassland where he can be catapulted and eliminated easily.
Also, there are a decent number of tile swappings that can occur both from food and sheild losses on growth/corruption.
Also, there are a decent number of tile swappings that can occur both from food and sheild losses on growth/corruption.
WarDance
Prince
ControlFreak said:
I've been practicing worker moves in solo games trying to master the art, but clearly I'm missing it
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Per Team Decision
Make peace with Carthage and get Currency.
Make peace with Ottomans and gift them to Middle Ages.
Note the Ottomans free tech.
Establish embassies with Celts, Spain and maybe America.
Making Peace
Made peace with Carthage for Currency, 3 gold (all) and World Map (just because).
Made peace with Ottomans for 14 gold (all) and World Map (just because).
Gifted Philosophy, Polytheism and Currency to Ottomans. Their free tech is Monotheism.
Ask what the Ottomans want for Mono. Not much: Incense, Ivory, Contact with the Spanish, Literature, Republic, World Map and 180 gold ('In return they asked for $500,00 cash, two Eskimos and a kangaroo' - Early George Carlin). We clear the table so as not to click the wrong selection (blooper avoidance mode) .
Embassies
Build embassy in Entremont for 50 gold. Hanging Gardens - 19 turns (3 spears, 1 redlined horse)
Build embassy in Madrid for 61 gold. Hanging Gardens - 7 turns (4 spears)
Did not build embassy with America. Would cost over 100 gold (48 for embassy and at least that for snooping) to merely confirm our best guess: that San Francisco (3) is nowhere near completing the Hanging Gardens.
Can always go back and build that embassy, but it does not seem needed.
Entremont 50 AD:
Madrid 50 AD:
Make peace with Carthage and get Currency.
Make peace with Ottomans and gift them to Middle Ages.
Note the Ottomans free tech.
Establish embassies with Celts, Spain and maybe America.
Making Peace
Made peace with Carthage for Currency, 3 gold (all) and World Map (just because).
Made peace with Ottomans for 14 gold (all) and World Map (just because).
Gifted Philosophy, Polytheism and Currency to Ottomans. Their free tech is Monotheism.
Ask what the Ottomans want for Mono. Not much: Incense, Ivory, Contact with the Spanish, Literature, Republic, World Map and 180 gold ('In return they asked for $500,00 cash, two Eskimos and a kangaroo' - Early George Carlin). We clear the table so as not to click the wrong selection (blooper avoidance mode)
.Embassies
Build embassy in Entremont for 50 gold. Hanging Gardens - 19 turns (3 spears, 1 redlined horse)
Build embassy in Madrid for 61 gold. Hanging Gardens - 7 turns (4 spears)
Did not build embassy with America. Would cost over 100 gold (48 for embassy and at least that for snooping) to merely confirm our best guess: that San Francisco (3) is nowhere near completing the Hanging Gardens.
Can always go back and build that embassy, but it does not seem needed.
Entremont 50 AD:
Madrid 50 AD:
WarDance
Prince
So is Spain in their Golden Age? Edit: Answering my own question, yes I guess it was the Collossus. That would have been on the interturn of 2-3 on my last set. So when they finish the HG they'll be almost through with their GA. Wonder if the celts have had theirs yet.
Those tiles around Entremont are amazing. Massive production in that spot. Just think if there is coal in those mountains and you could put the Iron Works in that spot...
Could be a sign that they are still at war with America. If so, America might just take care of the Entremont problem for us.
And the big question of the day: If you gift a city to another civ and that city has improvements in it that the receiving civ does not have the required technology for, are those improvements lost?
For example, we gift a city with a hospital, factory, and a coal plant to a civ still in the middle ages.
Those tiles around Entremont are amazing. Massive production in that spot. Just think if there is coal in those mountains and you could put the Iron Works in that spot...
CommandoBob said:
Could be a sign that they are still at war with America. If so, America might just take care of the Entremont problem for us.
And the big question of the day: If you gift a city to another civ and that city has improvements in it that the receiving civ does not have the required technology for, are those improvements lost?
For example, we gift a city with a hospital, factory, and a coal plant to a civ still in the middle ages.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
We can tell whether the Celts are at war with America and/or Spain, our ambassador should know it. CB, please post the save?
Going from here: research Engineering in 4 turns, trade it for Mono. Possibly throw in Republic or Lit, definitely no contacts. Obviously the deal offered by Ottomans is not good.
Switch 'grad to GLib and maximize for shields. Our best bet is that Celts don't get Lit before Spain finishes. Hopefully they are not researching it and cannot trade for it. Maybe stir up some wars to accomplish the latter.
What's the ETA on GLib for Celts? How soon could we get to Entremont with a small army?
Going from here: research Engineering in 4 turns, trade it for Mono. Possibly throw in Republic or Lit, definitely no contacts. Obviously the deal offered by Ottomans is not good.
Switch 'grad to GLib and maximize for shields. Our best bet is that Celts don't get Lit before Spain finishes. Hopefully they are not researching it and cannot trade for it. Maybe stir up some wars to accomplish the latter.
What's the ETA on GLib for Celts? How soon could we get to Entremont with a small army?
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Can we own Entremont by 750AD? That would make an outstanding first city for India. Unfortunately it would have 95% corruption at that distance (RCP45 from Dehli). I might take them too long to make any improvements. I guess we should still gift a city from our continent to get them started.
About the rules change, does that me we are going to have a busted reputation? Settling for peace and then redeclaring same turn results in no per turn deals to the civs. We can't buy techs with luxuries or gold per turn. We can't sell luxuries for cash. (I just tested this in an old game and it's true. We can sell luxuries for a cut rate (10% value).)
America definitely had the upper hand in the war since they took the core flood plains city of Lugdunum. I'm not sure we can count on the spoiling the wonder build though. They will probably avoid attacking Entremont because it should have a higher number of defenders. If HG is really due in 7 turns, we probably just want to MA with Spain against the Celts, hope the American war still lasts and cross our fingers for 7 turns.
The other thing to watch out for is Construction becoming available. If the celts can cascade to the Great wall until they know Lit, they're still a threat.
Please post the save.
About the rules change, does that me we are going to have a busted reputation? Settling for peace and then redeclaring same turn results in no per turn deals to the civs. We can't buy techs with luxuries or gold per turn. We can't sell luxuries for cash. (I just tested this in an old game and it's true. We can sell luxuries for a cut rate (10% value).)
America definitely had the upper hand in the war since they took the core flood plains city of Lugdunum. I'm not sure we can count on the spoiling the wonder build though. They will probably avoid attacking Entremont because it should have a higher number of defenders. If HG is really due in 7 turns, we probably just want to MA with Spain against the Celts, hope the American war still lasts and cross our fingers for 7 turns.
The other thing to watch out for is Construction becoming available. If the celts can cascade to the Great wall until they know Lit, they're still a threat.
Please post the save.
WarDance
Prince
ControlFreak said:
Didn't even think of that. That could be trouble. I'm also surprised now that I think about it that Spain (and even America) aren't building the Great Library in a second wonder city. I wonder if they will start if we do.
Also, I thought that the city we gift to India has to be no further than distance 7 from Dehli.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
zyxy said:
Sorry. Had RL issues that delayed my getting to the game. Planned to post the save and then forgot.ControlFreak said:
Will post it once I get home.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
WarDance said:
Oh, right about the 7 tiles. My bad.
Spain has only had Literature for one turn, they will probably wait for a city to finish building it's current item before realizing it could start the Library? America being at war(I think?) with the Celts may be too busy making up for lost units to afford a second wonder at the moment. It won't be long before they start.
Like I said before, San Fransisco could have been building the colossus since it was founded. America is the tech leader so even though the sheild potential is small in SF, the accumulated turns with cascades (colossus and oracle, now HG) may have created a deficit we could not overcome with our scratch build, despite our production advantage. We should know where the finish line is set so we can plan accordingly.
I think you're doing fine. I'm not saying there's only one way to use workers and I'm not saying I'm the best at it either. But in general, if you have core towns using unimproved tiles, your citizens are wasting their potential. It is best to get one tile done right away, to make that citizen start taking advantage, rather than spreading the workers out and making all citizens wait for all improvements to get finished.WarDance said:
Worker - continued (let me know if my worker stuff is boring, old hat or generally not wanted and I will stop ranting)
For core towns with few workers, my rule of thumb is spread workers out 1 to a tile to road. With many workers, I often make stacks of 3 to road so that they can do flatland in 1 turn, hills in 2 and mountains in 3. Once tiles are roaded, I gang as many available workers as I can to complete the job as fast as possible.
If you just have small groups of workers, pare them into multiples that will complete the task without waste. (2,3 or 6 for mines, 2 or 4 for irrigation.) BUT, if you have a ton of workers, as we appearantly do, you can send a bunch of workers to a task, send enough the next turn to finish it and then you get to reassign the workers from the previous turn.
e.g. On a roaded grassland that you want mined, you have 5 available workers on turn one with another worker who will finish on the interturn. Move all five to the tile and start mining (5 of 6 WT complete). Next turn, move the extra worker to the tile and have him mine. When you hit "m" the worker will contribute his WT for a total of 6 and the mine completes. Since the mine is done, the 5 workers you sent on turn one, are now finished and you can move them somewhere else ON THE SAME TURN as the mine finished. That way, there is no wasted WT trying to finish a project on the IBT. This is the most efficient way to work with many workers.
Also be aware of where your workers are and how many WT you've invested into each tile. That way you can:
- Divide the workers into sufficient numbers to FINISH each task
- Know how many workers will be available after you finish the task.
- Worker chain to reach farther tiles. (You want to start mining a town 6 tiles away from where you just built your worker. You started irrigation 2 towns from the same city that has 1 WT left, and a mine 4 tiles from the same city that has 3WTs left. You move the new worker to the irrigation and finish it, freeing the three workers that were already there. They move to the mine and finish it freeing the three worker to go start your mine six spaces from where your new worker was made!)
Worker chaining is really effective when you've been selective about which tiles to improve on the first pass, then as new workers are built, the start a secondary improvement and work their way out working secondary improvements in expanding radii from your worker pump.
Priorities should be given to:
- Core towns worker unimproved tiles
- Core towns that will grow and use unimproved tiles
- Towns within range of the worker that will need improved tiles soonish
- Towns that could use more food
- Towns that could use 1 more shield to get to 10spt or 15spt or 20spt (Multiples of 5 lend themselves to wasteless building)
- Towns that are unconnected and will benefit from lower corruption/luxuries/resources.
- Roads for your military.
...
- Corrupt towns
One more thing I've been thinking about is roading jungle before chopping it. It takes 6 more WT to road before it's chopped. But unless you want to wait the 27 turns for one worker to finish the whole job and road the tile, you'd be wasting a turn for every worker you move into the jungle. So if you plan on sending more than 6 workers to help chop, you should road first. If you road first, then you can just keep throwing workers at the job until you complete it, then all the workers that started the job on previous turns get freed to do something else. Just be careful. You either want the exact number of WT to finish IBT, or you want to finish it before the IBT. The worst thing is to add workers to a "due in 1" task and not finish it before the IBT.
CF, that's a great treatise! You should post it in the strategy forum, and make a War Academy article out of it.
The research path should be what zyxy said, Eng -> (trade for Mono) -> Theo -> Edu. And I agree with CF that our best bet is to hope that Celts don't get Literature in 7 turns, and that we should ally with Spain and America against them. Entremont has at least 19 turns to build the GLib, we should be able to get troops over there before then if they manage to get Lit after all.
Regarding the broken rep, I think CF has it right. But whatever, at that point we should have everyone else down to OCC, what could we possibly want a rep for? Actually I think it's a positive thing, because now we won't have to be afraid to blow our rep before that...
I had a look at the lands "over there", the island with America and the Celts is just as good or better as the norther core - lots of rivers, and plenty of commerce bonuses (those sheep herds, too bad Entremont didn't build the Colossus!). I'm thinking something like this for the new core (pardon the size):
View attachment 108292
Note that the middle town will have the FP, so the rings should be interpreted as disks rather than actual rings.
The research path should be what zyxy said, Eng -> (trade for Mono) -> Theo -> Edu. And I agree with CF that our best bet is to hope that Celts don't get Literature in 7 turns, and that we should ally with Spain and America against them. Entremont has at least 19 turns to build the GLib, we should be able to get troops over there before then if they manage to get Lit after all.
Regarding the broken rep, I think CF has it right. But whatever, at that point we should have everyone else down to OCC, what could we possibly want a rep for? Actually I think it's a positive thing, because now we won't have to be afraid to blow our rep before that...
I had a look at the lands "over there", the island with America and the Celts is just as good or better as the norther core - lots of rivers, and plenty of commerce bonuses (those sheep herds, too bad Entremont didn't build the Colossus!
). I'm thinking something like this for the new core (pardon the size):View attachment 108292
Note that the middle town will have the FP, so the rings should be interpreted as disks rather than actual rings.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Ooh! Can we invade now? Huh? Huh? Can we? Can we? Pretty please, with sugar on top?
regains control
How nice of the American workers to improve their land for us.
regains control
How nice of the American workers to improve their land for us.
WarDance
Prince
Entremont probably could have built EVERY wonder, if the AI knew anything at all.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I have attached the save of Embassy buying to this post.
I did not think that we needed to spend the gold to establish an embassy with America and investigate San Francisco.
I did not think that we needed to spend the gold to establish an embassy with America and investigate San Francisco.
But I could be wrong.ControlFreak said:
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I have looked at how we could invade the Celt kingdom to stop the wonder build in Entremont. I think I have bad news.
Biggest problem, the ocean is too wide. With the Great Lighthouse, we are safe in sea tiles but not ocean tiles. We also have our movement increased from 6 to 7. But large parts of the ocean are uncharted. And we have 19 turns to do stop Brennus from getting his wonder. Which means we have to use the map we have now if we want to be sure to get troops to Entremont in time.
And geography does not help us. Entremont is on the west coast of Celt-Dom and we do not have a sure way to get there without ending a turn in an ocean tile. Which means we must go to our west coast to fill our boats and send them westward and land on the east coast of Celt-Dom and walk to Entremont.
(I hope someone can spot a mistake in this.)
Crossing the Sea
From the red dot, which is five tiles northwest of Carthage, it will take us 3 turns to get to our invasion beaches between Buffalo and Verulamium. If some of the fog were removed, it might be possible to do this in two turns, by moving due west instead of heading northwest and then southwest. At the end of three turns, we would be in position to unload our troops, the question would be where. Do we drop them off in neutral territory or unload them southwest of Verulamium and move them out of Celt territory the next turn?
If we do plan to drop them off in neutral territory, I wonder if it would be useful to take a settler along and found a city between the Celts and Americans.
Getting to Entremont
To walk to Entremont will take several turns, depending on where we land. If we land our troops southeast of Verulamium, we have seven turns of walking which will take us to the hills due north of Entremont. If we unload our troops from the coastal tile due south of Verulamium, we only walk six turns, but attack from the plains instead of the hills. We also trespass through America, but an ROP could cure that.
So, three turns to cross the sea, one turn to unload, and six or seven turns walking takes us up to a total of ten or eleven turns.
We have four galleys in play and four in construction, in Smuez Canal, SmurkzAtroid, Smurkzcapulco and Smurkastle. One galley in play is currently 4 southeast of adelphia, one is northeast of the last Mongol city of Ulaanbaatar, one is way off exploring the Artic circle and the fourth galley sits off the east coast of Celt-Dom and America, just east of Buffalo and Verulamium. This one could get to our west coast soon enough. And if we rush the galley in Smurkastle, it could meet this galley north of Carthage and pick up troops.
Eleven turns plus three or four to get our boats into position and loaded up. Figure on fifteen turns. Four turns to spare. No problem.
Two galleys only carry four troops, which may be enough to defeat the troops in Entremont (1 rSpear, 1 vSpear, 1 eHorse), but does not allow for any attrition on the way. A three galley assault force of 6 swords would be adequate; a four galley fleet would be assured of taking Entremont and defending itself from counterattacks.
We can get our troops to Entremont. The question is can we get enough troops to Entremont. I do not think that four Swords would be enough to guarantee that we conquer Entremont with its four defenders and stop the wonder build.
We could rush the other galleys, but they are several turns behind the front line assault. Or we could rush galleys instead of libraries, but that is a steep price to pay. The two best places to rush are City for the Sages and Vladivosmurkz. CftS could switch and produce a galley next turn; Vladivosmurkz could switch and produce a galley in four turns or we could rush it in one.
So to summarize:
We can do this. I just wish I knew another way. I dislike disrupting our science builds in the new core for this but do not see a way it can be avoided.
Biggest problem, the ocean is too wide. With the Great Lighthouse, we are safe in sea tiles but not ocean tiles. We also have our movement increased from 6 to 7. But large parts of the ocean are uncharted. And we have 19 turns to do stop Brennus from getting his wonder. Which means we have to use the map we have now if we want to be sure to get troops to Entremont in time.
And geography does not help us. Entremont is on the west coast of Celt-Dom and we do not have a sure way to get there without ending a turn in an ocean tile. Which means we must go to our west coast to fill our boats and send them westward and land on the east coast of Celt-Dom and walk to Entremont.
(I hope someone can spot a mistake in this.)
Crossing the Sea
From the red dot, which is five tiles northwest of Carthage, it will take us 3 turns to get to our invasion beaches between Buffalo and Verulamium. If some of the fog were removed, it might be possible to do this in two turns, by moving due west instead of heading northwest and then southwest. At the end of three turns, we would be in position to unload our troops, the question would be where. Do we drop them off in neutral territory or unload them southwest of Verulamium and move them out of Celt territory the next turn?
If we do plan to drop them off in neutral territory, I wonder if it would be useful to take a settler along and found a city between the Celts and Americans.
Getting to Entremont
To walk to Entremont will take several turns, depending on where we land. If we land our troops southeast of Verulamium, we have seven turns of walking which will take us to the hills due north of Entremont. If we unload our troops from the coastal tile due south of Verulamium, we only walk six turns, but attack from the plains instead of the hills. We also trespass through America, but an ROP could cure that.
So, three turns to cross the sea, one turn to unload, and six or seven turns walking takes us up to a total of ten or eleven turns.
We have four galleys in play and four in construction, in Smuez Canal, SmurkzAtroid, Smurkzcapulco and Smurkastle. One galley in play is currently 4 southeast of adelphia, one is northeast of the last Mongol city of Ulaanbaatar, one is way off exploring the Artic circle and the fourth galley sits off the east coast of Celt-Dom and America, just east of Buffalo and Verulamium. This one could get to our west coast soon enough. And if we rush the galley in Smurkastle, it could meet this galley north of Carthage and pick up troops.
Eleven turns plus three or four to get our boats into position and loaded up. Figure on fifteen turns. Four turns to spare. No problem.
Two galleys only carry four troops, which may be enough to defeat the troops in Entremont (1 rSpear, 1 vSpear, 1 eHorse), but does not allow for any attrition on the way. A three galley assault force of 6 swords would be adequate; a four galley fleet would be assured of taking Entremont and defending itself from counterattacks.
We can get our troops to Entremont. The question is can we get enough troops to Entremont. I do not think that four Swords would be enough to guarantee that we conquer Entremont with its four defenders and stop the wonder build.
We could rush the other galleys, but they are several turns behind the front line assault. Or we could rush galleys instead of libraries, but that is a steep price to pay. The two best places to rush are City for the Sages and Vladivosmurkz. CftS could switch and produce a galley next turn; Vladivosmurkz could switch and produce a galley in four turns or we could rush it in one.
So to summarize:
- Bring the galley east of Buffalo back to our west coast.
- Rush the galley in Smurkastle, head towards the north Carthage coast.
- Switch City For The Sages to galley, losing one gold.
- Switch Vladivosmurkz to galley and rush.
- Decide which troops to send with which galley and load them up.
- In four to five turns, have our fleet assembled at the jumping off point, 5 NE of Carthage.
- As these eight troops make their way across the ocean, finalize their attack plans.
- Land, march, attack and capture Entremont.
We can do this. I just wish I knew another way. I dislike disrupting our science builds in the new core for this but do not see a way it can be avoided.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Nice analysis CB! We may have to follow this plan to ensure we get the GLib, although it hurts to spend good money on galley rushes.
- perhaps galleys can be rushed from our northern towns? The ones near Edrine? Still costs money, but doesn't disrupt Sages. It's also important to check where our troops are (i.e., build/rush galleys near our troops could save some turns).
- perhaps we can found the town on the spot northwest of Carthage? It could rush a galley.
- I would send 4 galleys with 8 swords/horses, just to be safe.
- no problem trespassing through America, as it is for 1 turn only.
- the 19 turns is Entre's ETA to HG at current speed. Not necessarily the same as its ETA to GLib (more expensive) taking into account growth of Entre.
Anyway, I'm off: merry Xmax everyone, and see you in the new year!
- perhaps galleys can be rushed from our northern towns? The ones near Edrine? Still costs money, but doesn't disrupt Sages. It's also important to check where our troops are (i.e., build/rush galleys near our troops could save some turns).
- perhaps we can found the town on the spot northwest of Carthage? It could rush a galley.
- I would send 4 galleys with 8 swords/horses, just to be safe.
- no problem trespassing through America, as it is for 1 turn only.
- the 19 turns is Entre's ETA to HG at current speed. Not necessarily the same as its ETA to GLib (more expensive) taking into account growth of Entre.
Anyway, I'm off: merry Xmax everyone, and see you in the new year!
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
I'm not really sure if it's an alternative route or not, but I thought I would bring it up:
We have a galley near the Mongol/Ottoman Island. The corner of this continental shelf appear to be within 1 or 2 tiles of making landfall with the spanish island. If the island extends to the SW or W, this might be a crossing point. The grey tiles are the fog that would be cleared at move 3 (the point of no return). They don't help much with any decision to cross. It will require a suicide mission to find out.
If this works out, the total trip to Entremont would be 6-8 turns by Galley, with troops ending in attack position at Entremont. They will be on the plains by turn 8 or unload on the mountain and walk to the hill by turn 9.
The trip could start from either Victoria or Olive. That's an advantage considering those towns are near both our cores. The departure point works well for the galley in the south as well as switching the harbor in Trom to a Galley. If Adelphia and Nan were both switched to Galleys they would have the perfect number of shields to finish it on Turn 1. Unfortunately, if the crossing is suicidal, the galleys will not be in very good position for the western crossing.
Assuming that we have about 20 Turns to get to Entremont:
Eastern Way:
Western Way:
We have a galley near the Mongol/Ottoman Island. The corner of this continental shelf appear to be within 1 or 2 tiles of making landfall with the spanish island. If the island extends to the SW or W, this might be a crossing point. The grey tiles are the fog that would be cleared at move 3 (the point of no return). They don't help much with any decision to cross. It will require a suicide mission to find out.
If this works out, the total trip to Entremont would be 6-8 turns by Galley, with troops ending in attack position at Entremont. They will be on the plains by turn 8 or unload on the mountain and walk to the hill by turn 9.
The trip could start from either Victoria or Olive. That's an advantage considering those towns are near both our cores. The departure point works well for the galley in the south as well as switching the harbor in Trom to a Galley. If Adelphia and Nan were both switched to Galleys they would have the perfect number of shields to finish it on Turn 1. Unfortunately, if the crossing is suicidal, the galleys will not be in very good position for the western crossing.
Assuming that we have about 20 Turns to get to Entremont:
Eastern Way:
- New Continent galley retraces the planned crossing route to map the fog. (3 turns)
- Southern galley heads for the Western Way just in case (2 turns)
- Northern galley heads for the Western Way just in case (2 turns)
- M-O Island Galley head for the suicide path (2 turns)
- Eastern Way deemed safe (hopefully) on turn 2, that leaves 9-10 turns to get 4-6 galleys to either Olive or Victoria. with 8-12 swords. Sounds doable, even if we have to rush a few galleys/swords. Even the New Continent galley can make it by then since his mission of backtracking for 3 turns brings him closer to Victoria.
Western Way:
- New Continent galley retraces the planned crossing route to map the fog. (3 turns)
- Southern galley heads for the Western Way and keeps going (he's going to really close to the deadline).
- Northern galley heads for the Western Way and keeps going
- M-O Island Galley tries the suicide route but drowns (or survives but realizes it's not safe) (2 Turns)
- We need to found a town on the forest to give a loading point. The forest is RCP10 from Zentral.
- The swords will have to be ready by turn 9. The southern galley will show up on turn nine. Then it's eleven turns of boating and walking.
- If we get there and America has built more roads, lets get the ROP thing so we can walk there faster.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I like it.ControlFreak said:
We now have a choice of directions. The Eastern Way gives us a little more leeway to get into position.
The Western Way assures us of getting there in time.
Both ways have the same opening moves for the galleys since the key variable is whether or not we have a safe passageway to the east. The unit builds are very different and that is the sticking point; what to build where when the paths are so different.
I think it might be best to see with the M-O Island galley discovers before we do any switching of builds/rushing. This could be more expensive than changing build orders now, but we can either gamble with our science or gamble with our money. I'd rather gamble with the money. I would not like to switch cities on the west coast to boats and then have them on the wrong side of the world.
I did not look at our land forces intently, but with our direction not being known until turn 2, we should shift some of our forces west, since the Westward Way takes longer.
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