SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

It sounds like a successful turnset. I haven't looked at the save but will download after this post. I doubt too much has changed so I will post my Master Plan:

Long Term:
  • Take India to SpaceFlight with the GL.
  • Pray they build Apollo.
  • Finish all the Spaceship techs and then Miniaturization
  • Feed India by proxy all of our towns on Smurkz, getting them to buy the remaining spaceship techs in the process.
  • Let them have the Internet once we build it if they don't know all techs yet.

Middle range
  • Get to SpaceFlight ASAP with a possible stop at Sanitation if necessary
  • Build and donate Ghandi's first core including the Atoll range, Ivory area and possibly Cape Smurkz with harbor connecting to harbor in the ivory area.
  • Get a tactical advantage over Spain to be able to thwart any Spaceship attempt.

Short range
  • Prepare and gift Indianapolsmurkz to India.
  • Finish Industrialization, Electricity and Replaceable parts, start Corporation. (I know I had this the other way around before, but we're going to be building factories first and can prebuild for SEs so I shouldn't slow any builds down that way. Plus we're going to buy Nationalism soon and I'd rather be drafting infantry than rifles. Not to mention the faster workers.)
  • Rail Ghandi's core first so it can build factories faster
  • Build IronWorks and Newtons
  • Rail our Southern core so it can catch up in builds faster
  • Mine our Southern core where irrigation benefits from rails will be too much
  • Settle prison islands
  • Spam settle Tadpole including stealing Spainish between areas
  • Settle peace with Carthage
  • Move Ottomans and or Mongols to prison islands
  • Rail Tadpole
  • Establish centralized defense system on Tadpole

That seems like a lot but I'll do my best.

The only things I'm not positive about are:
  • Research Path
  • Railing core order
  • Moving Ottomans and or Mongols
 
Nice turns CB! Good railing, research, trading, and nice attack on Carthage. Btw, what happened to their settler pair? It never showed again?

Comments for next set:

- Turn down the slider ;).
- Agree with no hospitals, for the same reason Niklas argued against economics: we will not get back the 4 turns. I'm fairly confident we can do the IA on 4 turners without GA, then of the 10 MT techs we'll get one from Otto's, two from ToE, 5 or 6 in (partial) GA, and the remaining 1-2 should be doable in 5 turns each at most. Our science rate can still go up a bit by getting our second palace ring to size 12, and by building Wall St, Docks, Labs.
- Tech order looks good. We could use access to infantry soonish, speedy workers are cool too.
- Let's not get Nationalism yet. That way, India will not get it either, which is possibly an advantage, depending on how things play out. I don't like to draft, we'll probably have shields to spare on the mainland to train some proper infantry.
- Remember Kalmurkz!
- Please rail to Missi and Victoria Viking soonish. Not that Celts can do a lot, but still. I would prioritize railing struggling second ring towns up north to help them with production. They are all at size 6 and a long way from aqueducts. Maybe peel workers here, well, who am I telling this...
- How long will we profit from IW in Albu? Maybe build it in Trom instead? Should Albu do uni before IW?
- No need to gift towns to Otto's or Mongols. Please get one of our scouts to their island to watch (don't need RoP I think).
- You can get some more gold out of Tadpole by smart use of specialists and focussing on food. You can set the governors on this continent to "emphasize food", apparently that helps when they (re-)assign tiles.
- Switch the colossea to factories next turn.
- Our WM has value to Spain, probably because we uncovered some tiles.
- Richborough can switch to cannon once it is connected.
- Tadpole defenses are very much in forward positions - perhaps we should call this the Stalin defense :). Please keep our units out of range of the Spanish as much as possible, and on rails (once we have them). Fortunately Spain doesn't show up with knights or muskets yet - or with their UU.
 
zyxy said:
Maybe peel workers here, well, who am I telling this...
:rotfl:
Well, at least I have an identity now.

I liked all your comments. Kalmurkz won't be forgotten. I still think I favor Getting the Ironworks in Albus first. It contributes more sheilds there being in the first radius. With all the infrastructure that it needs to build, we will definitely pay off the cost of Iron Works before we hand it over. Once we hand it over, we can rebuild it in Trom with the help of a courthouse and it will likely pay for itself there too.

About the scout on M-O island, I am a bit disappointed that we didn't leave the scout on the iron. I know it's against the resource denial rule but we could have gotten a ROP. I'm going to get ROPs with everyone except carthage and the celts because I'm not sure how that will be affected when we break our rep.

I'm also going to delay gifting Indianapolsmurkz until I get the workers back from those tiles. Gifting should happen in 760AD.

I have set Tadpole (and a bunch of Smurkz towns) to more food and plan to focus on growth first. The scientists will get hired in the next turnset or even the one after.

Lambs is at size 1 with a nearly completed settler? I'm assuming this was an oversight since we founded Lamb and don't want to disband it. I will switch to something else.

I did a lot of the micromanagement last night and saved so there is an extra reload on my turnset. Hope that doesn't matter. My first look always takes a long time.

Starting now...
 
Great turns CB, couldn't have been better! :goodjob:

I agree with the short term research path, and zyxy's reasoning against Sanitation makes sense. I wouldn't worry about WW though, we'll "give" the towns via proxy so as to avoid WW. But if we can't save time by going for Sanitation, then clearly we shouldn't.

So, it's Electricity-Replaceable Parts-Corporation, which means we'll need prebuilds for SEs and Wall Street to be done 13 turns from now, i.e. you'll have to set this up. It would be great if we could switch all of it on the IBT and get those extra money as early as ever possible, but looking at what we have it doesn't seem feasible. Anyway, the sooner the better. Stock exchange should be the next thing after factories in most towns.

The only reason I would oppose going straight for Flight is that it will be longer until we get Hoover. But as long as we keep 4-turn research, what good is Hoover? And the slim chance that someone would research Medicine for us does make this approach attractive.



Sages can finish Newton in 3 if it gets another +3 spt on next turn, i.e. three railroads. Cabana can finish bank in 1 if it gets +1 spt this turn, i.e. switch the coast to the mined grass.

EDIT: Crosspost. Go go go, CF! :hammer:
 
@ControlFreak or Niklas or xyzy:

When you three look at swapping tiles between cities, how did you learn how to do this? What do you look for? Do you have a system or check list?

When I look at a city screen, I do not see the opportunities that all of you do.
 
zyxy said:
Btw, what happened to their settler pair? It never showed again?
The settler pair moved back to their border and then moved into Theveste to sulk. They never showed up again.
 
Well, you've already started so this is a bit pointless, but still.

ControlFreak said:
:rotfl:
About the scout on M-O island, I am a bit disappointed that we didn't leave the scout on the iron. I know it's against the resource denial rule but we could have gotten a ROP. I'm going to get ROPs with everyone except carthage and the celts because I'm not sure how that will be affected when we break our rep.

You'll need embassies - well, you probably found out by now :). Fine with me, they're cheap.

Lambs is at size 1 with a nearly completed settler? I'm assuming this was an oversight...

Most likely. Now that it's hooked up, Lamb can grow a bit (steal from Entre). Entre can stop growing.

----------------------

CommandoBob said:
The settler pair moved back to their border and then moved into Theveste to sulk. They never showed up again.

I thought so. Too bad, I always love to whack a settler :D.
 
CommandoBob said:
@ControlFreak or Niklas or xyzy:

When you three look at swapping tiles between cities, how did you learn how to do this? What do you look for? Do you have a system or check list?

When I look at a city screen, I do not see the opportunities that all of you do.

The answer is "experience", probably. Lots of factors play a role: importance and purpose of the city, avoiding overflows, corruption levels, and sometimes choice. I sometimes use a checklist, especially this late in the game: I run through all cities once or twice per turnset, and write down all that need attention. Early in the game I usually run through all cities every turn. Even then a checklist is sometimes handy, so that you don't have to figure out the same thing twice.

Some decision points for tile management and swapping:

I check whether the city is fully corrupt or not. This is always immediately clear, except when it's close to fully corrupt, then it takes some experimenting: try to maximize shields or commerce, see if you can get more than 1. CivAssist2 will also tell you about corruption.

If the city is fully corrupt, then only food matters, so I ignore shield and commerce values of a tile. When this city is sharing tiles with another city that's not fully corrupt, then usually all good tiles go to that other city. Of course there may be exceptions, for example the corrupt city may get some good food tiles to hire a lot of scientists (specialist city), or it may get another good tile if the other city doesn't need it. I usually stabilize a specialist city (0 food surplus).

I try to avoid overflows of food and shields. Here a checklist is good, because sometimes this means: do 8 shields per turn for 2 turns, then 7 for 3 turns, etc. When the city grows, it can get pretty complicated to avoid shield overrruns on expensive builds. Occasionally you can trade in the overrun for extra commerce, for example by switching from a mined grass to a coastal tile (lose shield and possibly food, gain commerce).

Sometimes one city is just more important than another, and so will get priority on good tiles. For example a city building a wonder usually gets first choice in production tiles. In our case, Sages would get first choice in commerce tiles because it has Copernicus and (soon) Newton.

Sometimes you can effectively lower corruption by tile swaps. For example, suppose two cities are sharing a mined bonus grass and a mined grass, each getting one of these tiles. If the city with the bonus tile loses the extra shield to corruption, then swapping might help.

Later in the game it is usually a good idea to have food surplus at 0, 2 or 5, and shield production at a multiple of 10. If you are building large number of a particular unit, then other production levels may be good. For example, if your city is training 70 shield knights, then try to get it at 14 shields, not at 13 or 15. Early in the game this kind of thing is important with special purpose cities like settler factories, where food production and shield production have to match.

Let me give some examples from the 750AD save.

Our cities on Tadpole are all totally corrupt, stuck at 1 shield and 1 commerce per turn, and therefore will be specialist cities (with perhaps 1 round of settler production to fill in the gaps). That means: stabilize population (after settlers are done), and maximize the number of specialists. So how large should these cities be? Well, we don't want to build expensive aqueducts anywhere (they cost a lot of shields, and maintenance too), so cities on a river could get to size 12, others to size 6 max. We also don't want to spend for happiness, so 12 may be a bit large. A tile producing 2 food per turn will only support the citizen working it. So the only tiles worth using are the ones making more than 2 food per turn, so that we can support science specialists. Golden Smurkz for example has access to floodplains and each floodplain does 4 food, after rails 5 food. So with 2 railed floodplains it will do 2 (city center) + 2*5 = 12 food, enough for 6 citizens, the 2 working the floodplains + 4 specialists. This is its maximal size anyway, so this seems the best plan. If we now look at Entremont, it's unhappy and it's using tiles producing less than 2 food, so it should not grow anymore. The city screen also show that it shares some tiles with Lamb on Broadway, a city that doesn't have any other good tiles to use. Entremont can hire 5 specialists, while producing 0 food surplus, and this will free up an irrigated lamb that can be used by Lamb on Broadway. If you start checking other cities on Tadpole, you'll see something can be done with Washington, with SF (in a few turns perhaps), with Lugdunum, with Atlanta, and with Richborough.

Now look at a noncorrupt cities, for example Carthage. It is size 6, it has an aqueduct, but it is not growing, for lack of food. It is also working an unmined grass tile, but switching to a mined one only increases waste, not production. Note that there is also a deer in Carthage's radius. It is currently in use by Smurkzala, also at size 6, but this city lacks an aqueduct and cannot grow. It is wasting 3 food per turn! So it doesn't even need the deer tile, and can use one of the two hills instead. You'll see that the extra gold and 1 of the 2 extra shields from the saltpeter hill are lost, but the railed hill would add 2 shields, so let's take that one. Checking a bit more reveals that you can switch from a mined grass to a mined bonus grass, gaining another shield. We then have a choice to switch from the rock to the saltpeter hill. This will add a shield and lose a gold. I would do this (and rush 7 shields) because it speeds up the aqueduct and we need a lot of improvements still, but this is a choice.
Finally, Carthage now gets the deer instead of the unmined grass, gaining 2 food (the shield is lost). I then note we can switch from the forest to the hill to gain a shield, and that in 2 turns I could switch from the hill to a mined grass to speed growth at the expense of a shield (another choice, but probably a good one, because growth also means more production). Another choice at this point is to switch Zala from a mined grass to the forest that's now freed up. This puts it at food loss, but it gains a shield and will build the aqueduct in 7 without shortrushing 7 shields.
All in all we gained 2 food and 1 shield in Carthage, and transformed the 3 wasted food in Zala into 4 shields at the loss of 1 gold, with the choice of transforming another food into a shield.

Hope this helps.
 
CommandoBob said:
When you three look at swapping tiles between cities, how did you learn how to do this? What do you look for? Do you have a system or check list?

When I look at a city screen, I do not see the opportunities that all of you do.
My first respone was to say no, I do nothing of the kind, I just do it. But maybe there is more to it after all.

Basically you would first look at the current stack of food/shields, and the current fpt/spt rate, and see if any changes could come in handy. The second step is to see if there is a tile somewhere in the radius of this town that is worked by some other town that matches what you need. Third step is to check that other town and see if it needs the tile better, or if giving it to the first town would really be beneficial. If lucky you could end up with chains of this, e.g. "yes this town could do without that tile, but only if it gets this tile instead, let's see if this third town could lose it" and so on.

You'll get into it. :)

EDIT: zyxy's response was perhaps a bit more detailed... :blush:
 
I made it to 830AD:View attachment 112498

I have done no MM yet but it's pissing me off that I cant get the right science numbers out of CA. Someone tell me if it's possible to get the ~25bpt needed at 80% to finish the tech in 1.

It's Mrs. Freak's birthday so I must head home. I will try to finish tomorrow.

Turnlog
Turn 0 - 750AD
MicroManagement:
Mostly setting a bunch of towns to food when they should be growing.
Changed some builds: Lamb to temple (it will help with happiness eventually and adds cultural pressure to Spain)
Spicy will not make it to the desired 5.5. I will shift tiles there to grow faster than building the workers to get it up to the 5.5.
Slider dropped to 50% gives an overrun of 21 beakers. I'm going to live with that rather than adjusting everything for 40%. I fire all the scientists in favor of growth or taxmen.
Rush the Harbors in Mo and Kristiansund. Rush some workers on Tad. Switch entremont to Settler since it's outgrown it's happiness and rush. Treasury still over 3K.
Don't anything with Kalmurkz this turn because I have no shields in the bin. I'm also 2 turns from an extra pop so I will actually disband it in 4 turns to get the extra worker.

Hold breath and hit enter.
IBT
Spain asked to trade Chivalry for Physics. I say no for now but kick myself for not remembering to check trades.
We learn Industrialization. Use the big picture to select electricity and then F1 to change ALL cities >10spt to factories. That included some universities in the south and a lot of banks everywhere in addition to the cols and cathedral prebuilds. My thought are that the towns in the south need to be developed for india faster and they don't get the benefit of inheriting the uni. The banks in the north can be rebuilt faster with the factory bonus which will also help for SEs and Labs as we build them.
Electricity is doable in 4 at -105gpt. I set slider to 80% due in 5 so that CAII will tell me how many scientists to hire.

Entremont settler>worker. Steinsmurkz worker>worker. Kristiansund harbor>market. Mo harbor>market.
SingSing tries again to return to the fold but is rebuffed.

Turn 1 - 760AD
Galleon with scout goto tile between SF and Boston. Settler to meet him for transport to two tile prison island.
Lollipop skirts Ottoman border to take up position with view of iron hill. Sees worker that has cleared the jungle.
Butterscotch heads to Olive to upgrade and pickup some units to put between the Ottomans and Mongols.

Worker moves
Mission 1: Get Newton's faster
Three rails to Sages for Newtons in 2. (Thanks Niklas) COMPLETE![/color

Mission 2: Get IW faster
Two hill rails, a plain mine rail and FP rail to Albus for IW in 8 and +2fpt. It's going to lose the Coal tile to Indianapolsmurkz so I do the tile swapping now. Otherwise we won't be able to use tiles until India moves their citizens. The worker on the mountain starts roading since there will be enough food to support a mountain mine. COMPLETE!

Mission 3: Free the partial stacks
Despite the instructions, I couldn't figure out how to finish the rail to Nansmurket so I think I wasted a slave WT there. Oh well. COMPLETE!

Mission 4: Connect Missismurki
Railed to Izsmurkz then down the river to Missi. That way all the rails were on mined tiles. COMPLETE!

Mission 5: Connect Victoria
Railed the grass to Trom. Next turn will rail over the hills to Victoria.

Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Slaves by Rich finish road, move to grass to start another road.
Rest of team continues to rail E from Entremont toward Rich.

Settlers move 1 tile East of Kalmurkz in preparation.
Entremont Settler will found by the lambs to the east so that our road to richbourough becomes ours. Plus there's a lot of food from this spot.
Galleon explores then fortifies between Sages and Point. It can't reach either town but units there can jump on board from the city.
Galleons reposition so that we have support for our islands off of SF and Houston. (Take a few turns to get in postion)
Oea strike force will be moved to Smurkville for repositioning. Leave 2 Medi for preventing foreign settlers.

CAII says I need 16 Scientist. 4 (3 net) from Entremont, 4 (3 net) from Lugdunum (those towns actually make 2bpt if working commerce tiles, could build libraries/courts here), 3 in SF, 2 in Washington, 1 in NY, 1 in Richbourough, 2 in Atlanta, 1 in Detroit. Hmm, still not 4turn research. Now CA says there will be 7 beakers wasted but Civ (where it counts) still says 5 turns. 2 from Kristiansund, With the library in Trom due in one, I mm to commerce but still 5 turns. I'm not going to worry about it. Newtons is due in 2, I'm guessing I'll end up with it in 4 anyway.

Trade Metalurgy to Spain for WM Chivalry and all their gold. They have bought banking from Ottomans? They have 19gpt available but wont take Steam for Nationalism. I'm going to let the trades sit for 1 more turn. Spain has 62gpt expiring to us next turn. If they sell to Ottomans on the Interturn, we can get it back from them.

Gift Banking to all other civs that we're not at war with. ROP with all civs but Celts and Carthage. It was worth the investment in the embassy (30g) as Ottoman's pay us 42g plus 9gpt.

I'm tempted to rush the factory in Indianapolsmurkz but it will cost >900g and delay our gift by another turn so I dont. Sell the library. Make a temporary ceasefire to gift the town and then redeclare.

Move cannons and 2 medi to cover the worker stack in case India rushs and attacks with a unit. Move some medi and spear to olive. They'll take the caravell to M-O Island.

The loss of science from Indianapolsmurkz brings us back to 5turn research even in CAII. I leave it at 80%, -4gpt thinking the Newton build and Troms library will bring me back to due in 4. If not, I'll raise science next turn.

Kalmurkz rushes settler, will still grow this turn.

I'm going to forgo a lot of MM infavor of finishing before the weekend.

IBT
Lots of Spainish movement but seems like border checking.
Celt galley is coming south out of the canal by Richbourough.

Spicy worker>worker. Kalmurkz settler>worker. Will rush next turn. Smuez worker>worker. Trom lib>court.

We lose our supply of furs from Spain.
Turn 2 - 770AD
Contact Spain: Physics for 51gpt + 3g (full value). Theory of Gravity and Magnetism for furs, WM, all their 15g and all their 19gpt.

CAII says I have 907/3733 = 2826 to go. That's 942bpt required and we're at 924. Newtons is due in 1 turn and should earn an extra 81bpt so I leave science at 80%. 90% would get it in 3 as it should be so I'm hoping we're OK.

Workers
Mission 5: Connect Victoria (cont.)
Railed hill and irrigated desert. MM for growth. COMPLETE!

Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Stacks have progressed to our new city site. They skip the tile and start railing on the otherside of the soon to be city.

Mission 7: Get the six fastest cities to Factory/Bank for SE prebuild and Wall Street.
Sorting by shields the best producers are: Missi, Ismurkz, Sages, Zentral, Vlad (which isn't at size 12 yet), Albusmurkz which is building Ironworks before factory, Ol'Smurkz River, and Grad.
Missi and Vlad still need a banks. Sages still need bank and hasn't started factory yet.

Missi is a big shield maker so I will include it despite needing a bank. The SE selected towns are: Missi, Ismurkz, Zentral, River, and Grad. Sages will build the factory next but will go directly to Wall Street without the bank or SE.
Workers will prioritize cities in the order they are due to finish their factories since rails mean more to a factory than to a non factory.
Ismurkz COMPLETE! (I see the error of my ways as all the rails didn't help the delivery turn for the factory. I guess I need to calculate which cities will be helped by rails first.
Zentral gets 1 hill, two flatland rails and drops factory by 2 turns. Partial stack starts working another hill.

Smurkz Highway founded by lambs on Tad. Settler by Boston boards galleon for the 2tile island.

Set spicy to grow in 2 worker in 3, should get us on track for no maintenance 2 turn factories in both spicy and stein.

Fix some food towns limited by aquaduct/max pop.

IBT
Sages Newtons>Factory. Cape Court>library. Stien worker>worker.

Turn 3 - 780AD
Workers
Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Choose to favor railing toward Richbourough over Buffalo.

Mission 7: Get the six fastest cities to Factory/Bank for SE prebuild and Wall Street.
Zentral finishes partial hill rail, another hill rail, irrigated plain and mined plain for factory in 4. Can't do any better so I move on.
River rail 6 mines, drop factory by 2 turns.
Grad swap a bunch of tiles from HotB to Grad so that this priority city gets its factory sooner. Mine a hill and two flatland mines taking another turn off. Partial stack (6 slave) goes to Grad's mountain that needs road/mine/rail.

Science still too short for 80% so I go 90%. I expect to bring it back down next turn.

Ismurkz is overrunning it's factory and gets set to fill the foodbox and max commerce.
Play with some MM. Rush worker in Kalmurkz

IBT
Spain drops a spear/settler pair on Detroit Island.:eek:

Kalmurkz abandoned.
Turn 4 - 790AD
Alcatraz founded on 2 tile island set to worker

Workers
Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Rails finished to Richbourough. Start towards Buffalo.

Mission 7: Get the six fastest cities to Factory/Bank for SE prebuild and Wall Street.
Remaining roaded tiles are railed in Grad, one plain changed to mine from irrigation. It will get changed back once the mine is ready on the mountain. That gets all the factories as fast as possible. Next priority is Sages rails.
Sage gets all mines railed. Sheep mined allows new mined plain usage. Horse mined but not enough workers to rail it.
Remaining partial gets broken into 4.5 WT mountain road crew for Albus and .5 WT start on railing to Istanbul.

Galleon drops of two Medi on M-O island and move on towards the new continent. I need to get troops to Detroit to help fend off the Spainish new city.

Kalmurkz Reborn founded>court.
Science back to 80%, wasting 80beakers. I can't get 40more beakers for 70% in a reasonable amount of time so I take the loss. :(

WM to Spain for 22g and Ottomans for 27g (full value)
Peace with Carthage for all their 4g and WM.
WM to Mongols for all their 19g and WM.
Gift WM to Celts.
WM for WM from America. Which gets an extra 1g from Ottomans.
Spain has 10gpt as does Ottoman but we have nothing that cheap to sell.

Check that Stein and Spicy are finally on their 2-turn cycles.

IBT
Spain settles on Detroit island.
Mongols have a bunch of units coming into view.
Boston Settler>worker. Bursa worker>worker. Ismurkz FACTORY!>Leo's as placeholder for SE. It makes 43spt using the governor selected tiles. Spicy worker>worker, set governor to food and it should beable to build without MM. Stein worker>worker it doesn't need MM even without prioritizing food.

We lose the supply of gems but it's not important to get it back because we only count 8.

CAII is again calculating the number of turns incorrectly. It says 80% gives me 4 turns with 23 end wastage. In reality we're at 5 turns on 80%. I'm just doing poormans MM and dropping the slider where possible. Start at 80% 5 turns, -15gpt.

Turn 5 - 800AD
Mission 7: Get the six fastest cities to Factory/Bank for SE prebuild and Wall Street.
Rails for Sages are COMPLETE
Grad finish road on Mountain move 18 workers there for the mine. Another 18 workers for the rails. Have to switch that mine back to irrigation now to use the mountain. (Stupid waste of turns. Sorry.:cry: ) But now Rails for Factory builds are COMPLETE
Rails for Grad COMPLETE
Rails for Ismurkz COMPLETE
Missismurki factory is due next turn.

Sell Dyes at value for 17gpt.
Pass around WM for a pittance.

Since I was 42b shy on the last 3733b tech I hire 12scientist where the loss of food is fairly painless. Let's hope that helps me get what I need this round. I start at 70% "5-turns". Will do 80% next turn.

I make the realization that science towns are better than prison towns now that Alcatraz is ours so I stop the settler heading for the galleon to go to Tundra isle. He will found between lambs south of Boston next turn.

IBT
Celt galley appears like it's headed to found a town in Southern Tad.

Istanbul worker>worker. Victoria Market>Factory (can be changed by next player if we just want to go for Uni). SF settler (losing scientists)>settler rehire 2 scientists. Missismurki factory>Sufferage (SE prebuild). Apulco market>court.

Turn 6 - 810AD
Workers
Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Rails finished within 1 tile of Washington.

Mission 7: Get the six fastest cities to Factory/Bank for SE prebuild and Wall Street.
Missismurki gets wheat and sheep railed so it can use mined Plain instead. Rails on remaining mines COMPLETE
Zentral two FP railed allowing a plain to be mined and used. Rails finish but MM to commerce for now with Factory due in 1. COMPLETE
River could use two more tiles to replace the coast and FP it's working. Swap tile from Food who takes the FP. Rails on both tiles COMPLETE
So all six priority cities are COMPLETE

Mission 8: Get Albus to max production with IW
Need to steal tiles from Food who steals tiles from HotB who steals tiles from Olive who gets pushed into the coast (they have a harbor). :)
HotB gets an irrigation railed to prevent starving.

New SF settler head to desert south of Washington.
Scientific Lambratory founded>settler.
Galleon moves to pickup Medi from St.Louis island to swap with the cat in Detroit.

Get a few g for our WM.

Switch Ismurkz to temple because the SE prebuild will be an overrun by a lot. Missismurki set to bank instead.


Now that I did 70%, I need 90% to get me to 3 turns remaining. This is irritating. I'm going to short cut the process and go back to max sci, dropping down as possible. Sci 90%

IBT
Ottomans and India sign a trade embargo. No big deal since neither have a trade route but I'm wondering what India got for the deal.

Ismurkz temple>can do a knight in 2 and still beable to build the SE the turn after Corp. Richbourough cannon>cannon. Spicy worker>worker. Same for Smuez and (eventually) Stein and Latenight Spam. Atroid duct>market. Cabana factory>bank. Zentral factory>temple will also finish in time for SE the turn after Corp.

Turn 7 - 820AD
Thinktankfounded
Medi,cat swap made between Detroit and St.Louis.

Workers
Mission 6: Connect Tadpole
Rails finished through Thinktank Washington.

Mission 8
Rails to get IW in 2. Cant do more here this turn.

Mission 9: Get First ring cities railed
Cabana get three mines railed. Needs the irrigated desert mined/railed.
Vlad gets mines railed. It too needs a mine instead of irrigation but will wait till it grows to 12.
San Ansmurkio gets irrigation railed for growth.

Drop Sci to 80% due in 2.

IBT
River Factory>Coal Plant prebuild for SE. This will have to switch through the Big Picture!
Olive Uni>Bank.
Buffalo worker>settler.
 
When I get more time, I read zyxy's last post and add my own comments about tile swapping.
 
Nice work. You gotta love all those rails :).

Sustainable science rate is up to 950 bpt, enough for Steel, almost enough for Refining. And we can still gain quite a bit in the second ring. (You should have read my little treatise on Carthage :p ;).) Especially the coastal towns can contribute a lot of commerce, try to make them grow and give them production power (rails, courts, aqueducts). Cities on Tadpole do not need to grow indefinitely and should hire scientists to stop growth when new citizens just eat food and nothing else.

I would build Stock Ex in our best commerce cities, apparently Zentral, Sages (needs Bank and Court), Missi (idem), Cabana (idem) and Ismurkz (just Court). That makes Vladivo a good town for Wall St it seems, it will do 42 spt soon.

I would rather not park a stack of cannons where India can take them. At least put a second defender please. Those workers may need some protection too.

The knight and temple are prebuilds I assume? After the Stock Exchange, we could put Zentral on some units - infantry, for Tadpole mainly.

Are the cat on Thunderfall and the scout on Alcatraz there to prevent landings? I wouldn't bother - if someone lands there then we just gift the town to someone else. We are paying upkeep for these units, and I like to be as frugal as possible. We could use these cats on Tadpole. The cat on St Louis is not really needed either, the MDI should block sufficiently.

If Spain keeps progressing this fast then we cannot keep ToE from her I think, and we may need to slow her down after all. Something to think about. It's going to take tanks now, she'll have rifles soon.

Do we want to resettle Oea?
 
Looks good so far. :)
ControlFreak said:
I have done no MM yet but it's pissing me off that I cant get the right science numbers out of CA. Someone tell me if it's possible to get the ~25bpt needed at 80% to finish the tech in 1.
Certainly. I assigned a bunch of scientists on Tadpole, and MMed Smurkz for commerce with almost no loss of production (1 turn on the factory in Sages, some smaller towns) and got it up to 872 bpt + 29 scientists = 901 bpt (894 needed).
I think I get the proper numbers from CAII, haven't seen any anomalies in this game the way I did for nr 8. :hmm:
 
zyxy said:
And we can still gain quite a bit in the second ring. (You should have read my little treatise on Carthage :p ;).) Especially the coastal towns can contribute a lot of commerce, try to make them grow and give them production power (rails, courts, aqueducts). Cities on Tadpole do not need to grow indefinitely and should hire scientists to stop growth when new citizens just eat food and nothing else.
Actually I know all of this, I just hadn't taken the time because I was worried about completing on time. I'm very sorry that I, a micro-micro manager, failed to micromanage.:blush:

I do not plan to let all Tad cities grow indefinitely, but rather add up the food bonuses and limit sizes based on their tiles. It is changing with rails at the moment and with the problems I had beaker counting, I prefered to fire all the scientists and finish railing first. Based on Niklas' post, I will hire ~29scientists and try beaker counting again.

At this rate, I'm thinking I may not finish until late tomorrow. I hope that's OK. If not, please post a Got it and I'll bow out with the turns I have finished.

zyxy said:
I would build Stock Ex in our best commerce cities, apparently Zentral, Sages (needs Bank and Court), Missi (idem), Cabana (idem) and Ismurkz (just Court). That makes Vladivo a good town for Wall St it seems, it will do 42 spt soon.
I was just trying to get cities that could build a SE on the turn after Corp came in. So that Wall St. was eligable. We of course want SE in high commerce cites. and Vlad probably is a good Wall St candidate if I can get the sheilds there to have it complete shortly after Corp comes in.

zyxy said:
I would rather not park a stack of cannons where India can take them. At least put a second defender please. Those workers may need some protection too.
Yes the plan was to move them. They were a temporary measure to protect the workers from the spear. Based on my previous test of India builds, I don't even think they have a unit to attack with so I wasn't too worried.

The same will apply for working the tiles near Sing Sing. I will bring more than one unit for protection.

zyxy said:
The knight and temple are prebuilds I assume? After the Stock Exchange, we could put Zentral on some units - infantry, for Tadpole mainly.
As stated in my turnlog the knight and temple are taking 2 turns worth of sheilds that would have been lost on the switch to SE. I will finish the knight and temple and then start a prebuild for SE and it will still finish on the turn after Corp.

zyxy said:
Are the cat on Thunderfall and the scout on Alcatraz there to prevent landings? I wouldn't bother - if someone lands there then we just gift the town to someone else. We are paying upkeep for these units, and I like to be as frugal as possible. We could use these cats on Tadpole. The cat on St Louis is not really needed either, the MDI should block sufficiently.
OK, I just figured we'd protect them from invasion, but you're right, they are not that important.

zyxy said:
If Spain keeps progressing this fast then we cannot keep ToE from her I think, and we may need to slow her down after all. Something to think about. It's going to take tanks now, she'll have rifles soon.
I don't think we need tanks. She doesn't have Scientific Method and we're not going to get it to make it cheaper for a long time.

Since we're not buying Nationalism, there's no reason to give electricity away either.

If she does start TOE, we will keep an eye on the build with our embassy and crush it with a surgical strike just before it's finished. I'll work to get more boats towards the Spainish Main.

Cascades may pose a different threat but we can address that as the situation arises.

Playing tomorrow.
 
zyxy said:
I would build Stock Ex in our best commerce cities, apparently Zentral, Sages (needs Bank and Court), Missi (idem), Cabana (idem) and Ismurkz (just Court). That makes Vladivo a good town for Wall St it seems, it will do 42 spt soon.
Niklas' mission to me was to get 5 SEs and WS ready for the turn that Corp finishes. I'm not sure of the city orders so I figured getting 5 SE on the turn that Corp finishes and Wall St the turn after would be a good goal. We weren't sure it was possible.

Right now, corp comes in in 5 turns. (Infantry will be due 1, Corp 4 turns later).

I need five towns that can build SE in 5 turns and 1 that can build Wall Street in 6. The other problem that I have is my prebuilds only go up to 160s of the 200 needed. I could use a palace, sufferage and leos but that's still three short. However, if the prebuild bin is full (160s) and our town makes >40spt, we can still finish a SE on the IBT if they are converted before the sheilds are calculated.

So...
Ismurkz or Zentral can meet the Wall St in 6 requirement. I chose Ismurkz because it makes less money than Zentral, so Zentral should be an SE getter.

Zentral will easily make it's SE in 5 turns.
River and Grad are currently at 6 turns. I can short rush a few sheilds and get River to 40spt and they will fairly hit SE in 5 turns.
Missismurki and Vlad both need a bank first. Misssmurki is currently at 7 turns for bank and SE, but Vlad (still needs Factory and Bank) wouldn't get the SE until turn 15.

The next closest SE is even farther out. Building Wall Street somewhere else would take even longer. (Can't be in the south because we don't want to destroy it when India takes over.)

So I plan to spend about 1000g to do two short rushes on both Missi and Vlad (rush colleseum, switch to bank, finish;rush coal plant, switch to SE on the IBT, finish)

That will finish 5 SE's the turn that Corp comes in, and let us switch Ismurkz to Wall St, to finish the turn after.

Obviously Ismurkz will then build a SE for itself.
 
Would it not be cheaper to get Wall St a few turns later?

EDIT: well, Sages is going to take a while, but Zentral and Ismurkz can do SE in about 5 turns. Ol' Smurkz River 1-2 turns later. Missi will need 2 for bank, and then 4-5 for SE, is 7 turns total. Cabana needs 5 for Bank, then 7 for SE (with a small shortrush maybe). Vladivo can do Wall St in 8 or 9 - it will finish factory next turn, and needs just 1 more spt to get Wall St in 7 turns.

Meaning Wall St can be had in 8 or 9 turns, with only a cashrush needed in Cabana, for about 100 shields = 400 gold. Three turn delay on Wall St means 3*50 gold lost, so this is quite a bit cheaper.
 
zyxy said:
Meaning Wall St can be had in 8 or 9 turns, with only a cashrush needed in Cabana, for about 100 shields = 400 gold. Three turn delay on Wall St means 3*50 gold lost, so this is quite a bit cheaper.
You're not counting the benefits of the earlier bank and stockexchange. But yes, it will not offset the 1000g needed to get it all 2 turns earlier.

My problem is it doesn't meet Niklas' challenge of getting them on the turn we learn corporation. :p

I agree, that it makes more sense to do Vlad Wall St in 7-8 turns. I will try to get us the stockexchanges as far as they can go before the next player.
 
Well, it was just a wish on my part, not a requirement. I wouldn't want you to do something stupid just to fulfill my wishes. :)

WarDance is on deck, and he can never play weekends, so I think it's safe for you to finish tomorrow. :)
 
Save is here

Again, I apologize about the lack of MM. Playing on the weekends sucks for me. I don't think anything major happened to set us back. Still maintained 4 turn research despite my problems. Some of the outer builds could have been done a bit faster but overall, I probably wont matter.

Post ya Monday!

Turnlog:
Turn 8 - 830AD
New game plan: get Vlad to make Wall St ASAP (Will see how fast that is when Vlad's Factory finishes)
5 Stock Exchanges need to complete before that: Zentral, Ismurkz, Grad, River, Missi.

Redouble efforts to MM for appropriate SE's and get Infantry in 1 at 70% (Need 21 more beakers)
First the SE towns:
  • Vlad (Wall St.): To get Wall St in 7 it needs to do more than 42spt. At size eleven, I suspect the Factory will yeild 40spt. At size 12 it can grab one of the mined plains from Sages (who has another one to be railed next turn) and should get about 45spt for Wall St in 910. So the goal for the rest of the SEs is to finish on or before 900AD
  • Zentral (SE): Has 45s in the bin at 45spt. When SE is available, it will have built 255s (55s over run). I should have short rushed a scout>temple last turn to finish one turn earlier, but since I didn't the plan is to finish the temple, start a Coal Plant, switch in 880AD and finish SE in 890AD. On Schedule[/b]
    [*]Ismurkz (SE): Same as Zentral except it already has a Temple. I could build a coloseum or cathedral in 2 or 3 but I think we could use a knight sooner than either of those. So I choose to let the knight finish and will setup the SE for completion in 890AD. On Schedule[/b]
    [*]Grad (SE): When it finishes the Factory next turn it should make about 45spt and will therefore finish the SE on the same turn as Ismurkz/Zentral (890AD). On Schedule[/b]
    [*]River (SE): River is at 39spt with one tile remaining to rail. When I rail it next turn, it is on track to make 159s in 870 (the turn before Corporation is due). So, using it's Coal Plant as a prebuild WarDance can rush the 1s (4g) in 870AD and then switch to SE using the big picture. The SE should finish in 880AD. On Schedule[/b]
    [*]Missi (SE): The bank is due in 2, the SE 5 turns later will finish in 900AD. On Schedule[/b]


I Started with 871bpt, and got 4 from MM Vlad. I need another 17 according to CAII:
Sages loses a turn on the factory but gets 8b using coast. 11 to go.
Point is overrunning food and shields. Using all coasts, it still finish duct in 1 with 3b more. 8 to go.
Smurkzala uses coast and rocks to go 0fpt and give up the deer. 2b more, 6 to go.
Smurkzacabana uses a coasts instead of desert mine getting 2b more. 4 to go.
Acapulco uses coast instead of corrupt mine and gets 2b more. 2 to go.
I play a little more on Smurkz without finding much and save to find out where I am. Now CAII says 6b left. I must be calculating my increase in beakers wrong.

Go to hire 6 scientists on Tad: 2more in Washington, 1 in Atlanta, 2 in LUgdunum, 1 in NY. Still not 1-turn research. CAII says I'm making 894 and have 894 left. Hire 2 more in Chicago, still 2-turn reserach.:mad: Seatle and Boston each hire 2 more.:mad:

Finally I go insane and hire scientists in every Pop 1 town on Tad and the surrounding islands, and hire 1 scientist in every Pop 2 town. That did it.:drool: CAII now says I have 16beakers more than I should need. :crazyeye: Anyway, I'll take the loss in food to save the 91g.

Move the cannons to the mountain to protect worker stack from India. Augment with two Medi. Send a Medi and horse to each of the uncovered worker stacks by Sing Sing.

I decide that if we're really trying to milk optional techs out of the AI then I need to give them the techs they always seek first. I give/sell on the cheap Feudalism to the Celts, then Chivalry to Celts, Carthage, America and Mongols. Hopefully that will get them to research some optional Middle age tech.

IBT
Lots of units move especially a musket heading into spanish town by Lamb and a galley near Houston.

RP>Corp. I big picture to change my knight to an infantry and notice that all the catapult builds are now. The ones that can I change to privateers thinking it might be fun to sink all the annoying galleys floating around. The others I switch to settler.

Point duct>Market. Grad Factory>Coal Plant prebuild for SE. Deer market>harbor. I'm thinking this is one of India's earlier acquisitions so a Uni doesn't make sense. A court won't help them much. So it's either harbor, a bank or a factory. Arizmurkz Uni>Bank. Ismurkz Infantry>Coal Plant. Spicy worker>worker. Albus IronWorks!>Factory. Zentral temple>coal plant. Vlad Factory>Universal Sufferage. I set it to grow in 1 which should yield 33s and will still let us finish Wall St in 7 turns.

Turn 9 - 840AD
Weeee high-speed workers!
Get River it's need rail for 40spt. Rail an extra mine for Sage so it can give one to Vlad. Then start working on the Northern RCP5 cities.

Well that was easy. All N RCP5 railed except FP in Cabana (not needed until Hospitals).
Start on S RCP5. HotB railed, Adephia plains railed, Food mines railed. Darn ran out of workers.
Tadpole railing gets to Houston and back tracks to connect all towns but Lugdunum.

MM for beakers. I drop to 50% and CAII says I should have 8bpt extra. But when I fire the first Scientist I get 5 turn research. I leave him hired and change settler builds for towns that won't have enough citizens for building a settler. Most become privateers and other players can change them. I have some cultureal buildings going on the spainish border. That's just for my wants. It may not be the best thing. Keep in mind though that Entremont could actually make real beakers if everyone is working. It could use the court, library and WLTKD (market). In the long run it would make more beakers that way.

I'm going to make a guess and say the CAII is incorrectly calculating the tech cost. I think the game thinks the tech cost is 2700 and not the 2666 CAII is reporting. We'll see next turn if that's the solution.

Galleons start moving into a chain for travel from Victoria to Entremont if needed. Stack most of the units I could find on the Mountains by Indianapolsmurkz.

Wall St check:
  • Vlad (Wall St.): 0 of 300, will make about 30s IBT and 40spt after that. Due in 7.
  • Zentral (SE): Coal plant will have to be changed to SE on the IBT that Corp comes in.
  • Ismurkz (SE): Coal plant will have to be changed to SE on the IBT that Corp comes in.
  • Grad (SE): Coal plant will have to be changed to SE on the IBT that Corp comes in.
  • River (SE): Coal plant will have to be changed to SE on the IBT that Corp comes in.
  • Missi (SE): Bank due next turn, SE 5 turns later (due in 6) if no short rush is used.

Spain has acquired Navigation. I don't think this tech is worth anything to us, but the Conquistador is now available. I should have calculated that Spain would go for Navigation first.

There is no good candidate to steal Magellans so I'm going to let it pass.
I do send her spices for 17gpt (market value). There is no way to get hard cash from her until we sell a tech and there's no way I'm selling Steam Power to her at below rate.

IBT
Washington and NY settler>settler. Lugdunum worker>settler. Chicago settler>settler. Missi bank>coal plant (SE). Zala Duct>Market.

Sing Sing doesn't give up trying but is rebuffed again.
Spain builds Leos in Madrid.

Turn 10 - 850AD
I'm permitted to fire 2 scientists (I rehired some of the ones in the settlerbuilding towns.) I chose Buffalo and Smurkz Highway because they both grow in 1.

All S RCP5 mines are railed.
I got giddy and just started railing all Southern mines without regard for efficacy.

Found Science Squeeze>artillery. This town could use some worker turns but it's not a priority yet.

Handoff:
Wall Street and Stock Exchanges:
  • Vlad (Wall St.): Six turns remaining
  • Zentral (SE): Must Switch to SE using Big Picture when we get Corp.
  • Ismurkz (SE): Must Switch to SE using Big Picture when we get Corp.
  • Grad (SE): Must Switch to SE using Big Picture when we get Corp.
  • River (SE): Must Switch to SE using Big Picture when we get Corp.
  • Missi (SE): Needs to switch to SE. You can do it during Big Picture but it's not absolutely necessary. Just don't complete the Coal Plant.

The Galleon below Smurkzville-LateNightSpam 3, should be renamed "Smurkzville-LateNightSpam 2" and head NE to where Smurkzville-LateNightSpam 1. S-LNS 1 can move back into Smurkzville and the Chain will be ready to go.

There are three settlers on Tad. I'm in a MM funk and would prefer someone else pick the best spots.

Spain has built culture buildings in all of the towns on Tad. They've stolen the road back so we'll have to road the forest/mountain. Even that won't hold up to a culture expansion from Verulamium. We should either rush a library and temple in Richbourogh or give up the city. Right now, it's worth more to Spain than it is to us.

Spain
I've been selling Spain luxuries so we can get her gpt and make her research faster at the same time. Now that Leo's is done all wonder builds will be from scratch. If we hold back Steam, then we don't have to worry about a cascade to Sufferage. We have some decent powerhouse cities that should be kept with nearly full bins so if someone learns a wonder tech, we can build it and finish it in one turn. (e.g. all the happiness wonders should be built in the south so keep one city on Palace build incase Music Theory shows up. Smiths should be built up north so once the Wall Street is built, we can use Universal Suffrage to prebuild. If it's going to complete, switch to something useful and let another full bin city pickup the prebuild.

Our rep is already shot, so if worse comes to worse and we need to hit spain, we don't have to wait until the deals are done. Just cancel the ROP so we don't ruin that. It's nice being able to leave spies on doorsteps.
 
Comments for next set(s):

  • Sustainable science rate is at 1000 bpt, max at 1200 bpt. Meaning the max rate is high enough for all IA techs except Atomic and Radio, and sustainable rate is high enough for all others except Electronics, Flight and to a lesser extent Refining and Combustion.
  • To increase science rate more:
    • Develop 2nd ring cities, especially the coastal ones. Rail for more production. Stein and Spicy can probably stop training workers and switch to Aqueducts now. With rails, they should finish quite fast.
    • Commercial Docks, available with Mass Prod. This should be our research goal IMO. They cost only 160 shields and add 1 gold/tile to water squares. Sages, Vladi, Am-Zee and Victoria and possibly Cabana (but needs a harbor, and shares with Am-Zee) will profit a lot. Also several southern towns while we still have them, and some second ring towns once they get going.
    • Wall St will help the sustainable rate (but not the max rate).
  • Inner cities like 'Zentral will soon have nothing left to build. A Stock Exchange costs 3 maintenance and is hardly worth it (except for the 5 needed for Wall St of course). These cities can train infantry (with rax) or artillery to replace our outdated units. I would disband AA and MA units as the new ones come online (perhaps keep elites for a while). Disband them in second ring towns that need the shields.
  • We could get Magellan in 'heim or 'adelphia, after the factories, to protect them from razing. There's no hurry yet, and we cannot trade very well for Navigation atm, it's just something to keep in mind. Spanish haven't started on the wonder yet, and with rails and factories we should be able to outbuild them.
  • India still needs CoL and Poly from the AA. She learnt currency on CB's turns, and Lit on CF's turns. Lit is only 133 gold at last price, so no worries I think. Anyway, research speed will probably go down again once India starts training troops in Indianapos (let's hope she actually does that). Apart from that India doesn't seem to move much. I suppose we'll want to wait with gifting her cities until she has enough troops to take several at once. Thus, when she shows up with unit(s), our best tactic is to bombard them, and nothing else. This doesn't give WW to anyone (EDIT: if you don't bomb them to red: see here), and doesn't destroy India's troops. We could even block all railed tiles around Indianapos if we want.
  • Easiest way to kick off our GA is with US. We'll probably want the GA early in the Modern Age. Two cities in the south are able to do US in under 20 turns ('grad and Albu), there are 13 techs to go in the IA (incl Corp), so no need to think of this for the next 3 sets yet, unless we want some other town to get the favor.
  • I'm not in favor of building improvements on Tadpole. We do not have a GL to move the FP (and even if we had, it would probably hurt more than it helps), so Tadpole is only useful as a specialist farm. It looks like we have maybe 5 spots to settle here, and 1-2 on the rubber tundra island S of Detroit. After that all towns on Tadpole can stabilize their population, and switch to wealth for max gold, or train units for disbanding elsewhere. The latter is only useful if this can be done within 30 turns or so, otherwise it will hardly matter. Btw, Entremont is 95% corrupt. The only reason it produces more than 1 gold is that it gets above 20 gold before corruption. Improvements will really not pay off here. Btw2, Lugdunum could do workers if we need more - all its citizens are American.
  • CA2 claims some towns need 1 MP to fully suppress flip risk - this might be worth it. Others, like Lamb are serious flip risks. Nothing to do about it really, we cannot outculture Spain locally, we already do globally.
 
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