SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

ControlFreak said:

@Wardance - I knew your daughter was using sign language, I didn't think about the arm break affecting that. Can she still communicate with you?

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Yes, and she's doing really well. We have a new teacher coming to our house every week and even after two visits I see good progress. The interesting thing about the whole situation is the teachers and speech therapists are teaching me how to teach her. They only work with her a couple times a week but I'm with her all day.

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Ok... working on my turn log now.

@WD: Wow, is that actually you in the picture? Heh, it feels almost wierd to know what you look like after so long.
And your little one, what a fighter!

Ok... working on my strategy post now.

Niklas said:

@WD: Wow, is that actually you in the picture? Heh, it feels almost wierd to know what you look like after so long.

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Yeah, where's the feathers around your head and your big impi sheild?

Long Term Strategy

• Get Gandhi to space.
• When Gandhi has started all SS parts needing Aluminum, deprive him of it and instead give him Rubber (near Meh) and Uranium (on Ostrich presumably).

My Turns Strategy

• Make sure Gandhi builds Apollo. Check in on Delhi every turn just for the fun of it
• Keep working the moat strategy to avoid incurring WW on Gandhi.
• Settle the towns on Ostrich as indicated by CF's map.
• Allow the indian units in the Galleon to capture Gem Town, Legs and Red Dot. Use Spain as proxy (?).
• Don't suffer a humiliating domination win.
• Research up to Free Artistry, then let it rest.
• Keep the world at war until MAs run out (when do they run out?).
• Check F10 screen for SS parts being built.

Anything else? Will play tomorrow, so you have some time for comments.

Roster: (Niklas will resume posting the Roster as some point. )

• WarDance - Just Played
• zyxy - {skipped}
• Niklas - UP!
• ControlFreak - On Deck
• CommandoBob
• Methos - ghosting

@zyxy - when Niklas finishes, let us know if you want to take the game or if you're OK with the skip and will come back around in the rotation.

Niklas said:

When Gandhi has started all SS parts needing Aluminum, deprive him of it and instead give him Rubber (near Meh) and Uranium (on Ostrich presumably).

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Not exactly. The Exterior Casing needs both Rubber and Aluminum. I think that we must wait until all the other SS parts are completed, then let them have Rubber long enough to start the Exterior Casing. Once the Casing has started, then we can disconnect both rubber and aluminum and give them uranium. My fear about disabling resources before the builds complete are that Ghandi may decide to switch builds for some reason and then won't be able to go back to building the part. If we take Aluminum away from Carthage, it may cause him to ruin his rep and India will no longer trade for aluminum from him.

Niklas said:

My Turns Strategy

• Make sure Gandhi builds Apollo. Check in on Delhi every turn just for the fun of it
• Keep working the moat strategy to avoid incurring WW on Gandhi.
• Settle the towns on Ostrich as indicated by CF's map.
• Allow the indian units in the Galleon to capture Gem Town, Legs and Red Dot. Use Spain as proxy (?).
• Don't suffer a humiliating domination win.
• Research up to Free Artistry, then let it rest.
• Keep the world at war until MAs run out (when do they run out?).
• Check F10 screen for SS parts being built.

Click to expand...

Spain seems like a good proxy at the moment.
Figure out where and start a prebuild for Shakespeare.
One of the MA's has already run out, the other should in 3-5 turns. I'm not sure about the Trade Embargos though. Does a peace treaty break a Trade Embargo? Does it hurt the rep of the AI who had the embargo?

Sorry I didn't post comments sooner. I must have cross posted with you and not noticed you had already put up your strategy.

EDIT: Watch out for the MPP. If we use Spain as the proxy, and they have MPP with someone, we could try to cancel that by MAing Spain against their MPP partner. Or we could just take the WW ourself. That might be the safest.

EDIT2: Played with the save a bit more. HOLY COW that's a lot of privateers. Nice job WarDance. I do think we need to do a little boat management though. We want privateers (and carriers too) covered by destroyers. We probably want to start switching over to destroyer builds rather than more privateers because they're faster. Ultimately it would be nice to have a wall of Destroyers between continents to prevent the AI from reaching the Northern Shore of Ostrich. India may be heading there with their galleon rather than our sacrificial offering of legs. If the boat strays off course, consider building a wall through the transfer point to prevent them from heading toward the NE. Also probably want to move the destroyers to allow access to Gem City via the channel.

Some of the fighters are fortified again, probably due to moving their carrier.

Ok, I'll start playing now. I'll be doing other stuff as well on and off though, so I'll check in here often if you have any further comments.

EDIT: Done with the pre-flight, I believe Zentral would be the best location for Shakespeare. I'll be off to make dinner now, so you have a chance to oppose this if you like. My reasons are that a) it can grow up to 20 (and not much more so no free clowns), and b) it makes 80 spt for a Theater in 5. I'm thinking a Police Station first though, for two turns. And then hopefully I can trade for Democracy in 2 turns.

ControlFreak said:

Not exactly. The Exterior Casing needs both Rubber and Aluminum. I think that we must wait until all the other SS parts are completed, then let them have Rubber long enough to start the Exterior Casing. Once the Casing has started, then we can disconnect both rubber and aluminum and give them uranium. My fear about disabling resources before the builds complete are that Ghandi may decide to switch builds for some reason and then won't be able to go back to building the part. If we take Aluminum away from Carthage, it may cause him to ruin his rep and India will no longer trade for aluminum from him.

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Another possibility... there is aluminum north of gem town. If Carthage ends up cancelling the trade we can allow Ghandi access to the gem town source.

ControlFreak said:

EDIT2: Played with the save a bit more. HOLY COW that's a lot of privateers. Nice job WarDance. I do think we need to do a little boat management though. We want privateers (and carriers too) covered by destroyers. We probably want to start switching over to destroyer builds rather than more privateers because they're faster. Ultimately it would be nice to have a wall of Destroyers between continents to prevent the AI from reaching the Northern Shore of Ostrich. India may be heading there with their galleon rather than our sacrificial offering of legs. If the boat strays off course, consider building a wall through the transfer point to prevent them from heading toward the NE. Also probably want to move the destroyers to allow access to Gem City via the channel.

Some of the fighters are fortified again, probably due to moving their carrier.

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Boat management, Ha! Never in my game experience have boats been important as they are in this game. It seems to me that in our situation they are rather disposable though, which means we have to build more. By disposable I mean it takes more than one or two privateers usually to take out an iron clad. They are floating suicide artillery basically. I'd love to hear your suggestions about boat management because all I've ever used boats for is moving troops.

As for the fighters I went ahead and filled the carriers and built one additional carrier.

I've played 3 turns so far, only frustration. Gandhi doesn't want to land on Ostrich where I want him to, and he keeps going into Anarchy. At the end of 1690 AD, Delhi is making 4spt in Democracy and has Apollo in 3. If he can keep from revolting again, my guess is he will finish it next turn.

Will continue playing tomorrow.

EDIT: One question, what to do with Indian ironclads? If I sink them outright they get WW right? But not if I use privateers? But privateers sink? How do you guys handle this?

Niklas said:

I've played 3 turns so far, only frustration. Gandhi doesn't want to land on Ostrich where I want him to, and he keeps going into Anarchy. At the end of 1690 AD, Delhi is making 4spt in Democracy and has Apollo in 3. If he can keep from revolting again, my guess is he will finish it next turn.

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Yuck. Frustrating, stupid AI. Well, nothing we can do I guess.

EDIT: One question, what to do with Indian ironclads? If I sink them outright they get WW right? But not if I use privateers? But privateers sink? How do you guys handle this?

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Maybe just bombard them with destroyers? Will they return to port to heal?

@CF: I would like to take some turns after Niklas. I'll have some time to play on Sunday and early next week. After that, it gets busy again for a week or so.

Finally doing my turn log. Have to finish tomorrow though.

Turnlog for 1625 to 1675 AD

Turn 0) 1625 AD: investigate Delhi for 134. Apollo in 8. Use various units to create moat by Kalmurkz. Wake workers and transport 3 from Tadpole to finish cleaning pollution. Upgrade 1 tank for 40. Rush workers in Mandal and Honningsvag. Oysters on Broadway gets abandoned straightaway because I'm scared of the domination limit. Science to 10%. Genetics in 1 at +1740. MM a tiny bit for a couple extra coins and shields.

IBT: Otto and Spain sign MPP. America and India sign MPP. Indian ironclad sinks destroyer. Guerillas move into western moat. Magic!! Research genetics and switch Ismurkz to Cure for Cancer in 2.

Entremont: privateer. Carthage, Sages, Zentral, Vladivo all build Modern Armor. Mandal and Honningsvag build workers. Sauda: harbor. Chicago and upstate NY: Stock Exchange. Spicy and Stein: rax. 'Am-Zee: offshore platform. Pamplona: harbor. Smurkzland: civil d. Highway and Science Squeeze: airport.

Turn 1) 1630 AD: everyone has democracy! India is in anarchy!! Bugger. Put operation "scare the fishing boats" into motion just in case we need it. All destroyers from the inland sea move out. Load 5 tanks into transport and move out. Towns on the inland sea switch to destroyers to replace the ones that are leaving.

Sink the ironclad that sunk a destroyer on the IBT and trigger MPP with America. Well that was dumb. Move elite tanks from MO island to mainland.

Switch a couple towns to jets. Might as well fill the carriers to capacity. Load 2 tanks into empty army. Rush a destroyer in Cabana for 280.

Bursa has 4 excess food at size 12 so I mine an irrgated grassland. Ulaanbatar switches from cruise missle to harbor. This is a decent spot to send wounded ships for repairs. Will complete next turn.

Science to 60%. Stealth in 5 at +380gpt. Open moat on east side. Honningsvag and Mandal rush a worker each again. Back ships off the Indian coast a tiny bit. Their ironclads have a move of 7 so they can come out of port to coast, move to sea, and then move two ocean tiles. I back the ships out just out of that reach so they can't come out of port and attack the same turn. We'll see them coming first.

Empty Seattle and put units in cities nearby hoping to lure Ghandi into taking Seattle. Switch Seattle to airport.

IBT: Guerillas move out of moat on west side and into moat on east side. That is just too cool. MI takes a ZoC shot on a guerilla on his way out. Wonder if they get WW from that.

Entremont: privateer. Arismurkz: jet. Mandal and Honningsvag: worker. Victoria: MA Chicago: rax Ulaanbatar: harbor. Cabana: destroyer. Lamb on Broadway: airport.

Turn 2) 1635 AD: Coal mountain expands. (30 tiles from domination). India and Spain are democracies. All others in Anarchy. Investigate Delhi for 134. 3 scientists, 3 happy, 6 content. 6 shields per turn and Apollo in 15. Successfully plant a spy with the Americans for 63 gold. Attempt with Ottos for 65 and fail.

Honningsvag short rushes a settler by rushing a worker first. 160 gold total. Same in Mandal. Notice that Ottomans have advanced flight.

Unload worker to block empty space on 3 tile island. Open western moat and close eastern moat. Move 2 wounded destroyers to Ulaanbatar for repairs. Airlift 1 MA to fort Mehrangahr.

IBT: Spain and India sign peace. Galleon and iron clad still moving west. The moat is hilarious.

Entremont: privateer. San Ansmurkzio, Zentral: MA. Mohacs: cathedral. Mandal and Honningsvag abandoned each creating a settler. Ismurkz: Cure for Cancer. SAges, Vladivo, Highway, Sci Squeeze: jet. Golden: bank. Smurkzala: tranport.

Turn 3) 1640 AD: America is a democracy now. Investigate Delhi for 134. 5 entertainers, 7 content. Still not working the mountain. Apollo in 11 and running a 1 food shortage. Guess I shouldn't have sunk that ironclad. Although India also has ships in our territory which probably contributes to WW too.

Re-base new jets to carriers. Elite destroyer completes repairs and heads back out of Ulaanbatar. Disband an MI at Bursa to take a couple turns off of offshore platform. Rush bank in Richborough for 360. Find unimproved grassland there and irrigate it. Coal mountain rushes market for 288. Uranium gift switches to airport and rushes for 300. Switch Sages to carrier.

Go on a little spending spree. Jaen: market for 240. Test Tube: bank for 200. Texas Horses: bank for 328. Am-Zee: destroyer for 192. Cabana: destroyer for 282. Ulaanbatar: privateer for 236. Seattle: airport for 312. Atlanta: privateer for 180.

IBT: Indian ironclad heads east out of Nansmurkzet.

Entremont, Atlanta, Ulaanbatar: privateer. CArthage, Chicago: MA. Hold 'em: police. Arismurkz, Lamb on Broadway: jet. Shortcut 1 riots! hire a scientist. Uranium gift, Seattle: airport. Richborough, Texas Horses, Test Tube: bank. Cabana, Am-Zee, Tromsmurkz, Smurkzland: destroyer. Coal Mountain: market.

Indian iron clad and galleon approach the old Mandal/Honningsvag island. 3 tiles of pollution at Missi and Ismurkz.

Turn 4) 1645 AD: Investigate Delhi for 134. No change. Apollo in 10.

Clear pollution. A little more shopping. Smurkzpoint: solar plant for 312. Bursa: offshore platform for 488. Plane z oily plane: market for 232. Jaen: market for 220. Smuez canal: bank for 160.

IBT: Ironclad attacks privateer and dies. Ironclad and galleon pair move north.

Entremont, Smurkzala: privateer. Smurkz point: solar plant. Bursa: offshore platform. Camulodunum, Smurknes: Stock Ex. Ismurkz, Spicy, Zentral, Stein: tanks. Victoria, Vladivo, Highway, Sci Squeeze: jets. CAnal: bank. Atroid: police. Jaen, Oily plane: markets.

Turn 5) 1650 AD: Investigate Delhi again for 134. Apollo in 9. Pay 65 to plant a spy with Ottos. He gets killed. 65 for spy with Spain, Successful!

India has moved guerillas through the western moat and into the eastern moat! I forgot to close the west side! Wardance... idiot.

Disband 3 MI in Hold'em for commercial dock. replace MI with MA. Clean up pollution. Disband 1 MI in Smuz canal. Rush privateer in Seattle for 236. The Indian boats are only 6 tiles away so it's the last we'll build in Seattle.

@zyxy - Go For It

Roster:

• WarDance - Just Played
• Niklas - UP!
• zyxy - On Deck
• ControlFreak
• CommandoBob
• Methos - ghosting

We should probably have 2 destroyers and 3 privateers stacked with lots of privateer reinforcements. Use the Destroyers to bombard the ironclad down to 2HP (1HP gives WW?). Then sink with privateers. Fighters can bombard also but they miss a lot.

About getting India to land on Ostrich. They may have a particular city they are trying to get to. I would think that Gem City is a good candidate because it has so many resources. Sauda is probably another candidate because of the two furs, but there are a lot of cities with more than one resource. I don't think Legs or Red Dot have enough resources for them to risk a landing with all of our attack units on the island. They probably won't try for those to towns.

Since we want them to have Gem City, move the troops to cover all the coastline on the Eastern and Northern side and open the Channel. You should have enough ships to make a wall and block the sea between Point and Ostrich. They should travel in to the Channel if they're headed to Ostrich. Then you can move the seawall behind them to trap them in the Channel. The two destroyers that were there on the start should retreat up to where the transport sits so the three of them can block of the Channel to the North. Hopefully they will get the hint and disembark by Gems. They should try for Gems if it's left open and no MA are within 3 tiles. Make sure the Tad side of the Channel is entirely covered with units.

It's a shame about the Anarchy. I don't know what causes it. Maybe we should just beat on them and give them War Weariness so they stick with Communism.

No no! This is my turnlog from the PREVIOUS set! I just never had time to post it bu still think I should. Niklas is still currently playing!!

@WD: Don't worry, CF knows that.

ControlFreak said:

We should probably have 2 destroyers and 3 privateers stacked with lots of privateer reinforcements. Use the Destroyers to bombard the ironclad down to 2HP (1HP gives WW?). Then sink with privateers. Fighters can bombard also but they miss a lot.

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This is the tactics I've been employing so far. The problem is that the privateers have been dying like flies. In order to take down a 2hp ironclad we should lose on average 1.5 privateers, which seems reasonable. However, so far I've lost 6 privateers without managing a single sunk ironclad.
I can only hope the RNG will start smiling on me...

Since we want them to have Gem City, move the troops to cover all the coastline on the Eastern and Northern side and open the Channel. You should have enough ships to make a wall and block the sea between Point and Ostrich. They should travel in to the Channel if they're headed to Ostrich. Then you can move the seawall behind them to trap them in the Channel. The two destroyers that were there on the start should retreat up to where the transport sits so the three of them can block of the Channel to the North. Hopefully they will get the hint and disembark by Gems. They should try for Gems if it's left open and no MA are within 3 tiles. Make sure the Tad side of the Channel is entirely covered with units.

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I already have the Point-Ostrich wall up, and the galleon turned back towards home. I'll try opening the channel and blocking the north shore to see if that helps things.

It's a shame about the Anarchy. I don't know what causes it. Maybe we should just beat on them and give them War Weariness so they stick with Communism.

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Is this a serious suggestion? In any case I don't find it unreasonable, they would sure be better off in Communism than in Anarchy every other turn.

I'll continue playing in a few hours (I hope), so there's time for comments.

Gah, I've caught the flu. Seems my body couldn't handle the temperature transition...

I can't think of playing further right now, I'll upload the save in a few. Here's the turnlog, non-formatted:
EDIT: >>The Save<<

Preflight:
Send the two settlers to Ostrich.
Rush (via worker) a settler in RubberHorses, set to 0fpt.
Settle Second Chance 2NE of OstrichLegs, start harbor.
Pillage Rubber on Ostrich, leave a tile for India to land on.

Identify Zentral as the best location for Shakespeare, but it needs
a police station first. ETA turns on that, then another 5 on The Globe.

IBT: Spain and Ottos sign embargo against us.
Indian Ironclads sink a destroyer and a frigate.
Galleon moves NE along Ostrich coast, despite my opening.

Abandon RubberHorse.

1680 AD (1):
Do recon, moving of boats, clear pollution.

Settle HorsesButNoRubber and Safe Gem Passage.
Flawlessly lose 3 privateers on a redlined ironclad.

Form half a wall of wolfpack and destroyers to force Gandhi to land near
OstrichLegs.

IBT: Galleon tries to circle around my wall.

1685 AD (2):
Trade for Democracy from Isabella for AT.
Set research to 20%, Free Artistry in 4. Would take 5 turns at 10%!

Investigate Delhi, they seem to be in Anarchy or at least rioting. Sigh.

IBT: Spain and Carthage embargo us.
Indian galleon doesn't want to go towards Ostrich, goes back southwards.

1690 AD (3):
Investigate Delhi again, they are now in the food-only mode, 4spt and
Apollo in 3. Should be fine again next turn, for Apollo in 2 possibly?

Save and exit.

zyxy, I think you can continue without posting your strategy. Please upload at 1700AD for the comparison game. EDIT: Keep playing past that point as long as you feel up to it and are still healthy. Target years are 1700, 1750, 1800?

@WD I just posted roster so that zyxy would see he's up next.

About the privateer's dying like flies, I think it's just a phase of the RNG. It should pass.

Gotcha, CF. I had a little freak out there.


Re: privateers. They're kind of disposable. If you only have one that can attack an ironclad it's not really worth it. You usually need one or two to suicide and soften him up and then finish off with another.

Alright, I'll play later today and follow Niklas' plan, with the modification that Ghandi needs both rubber and alu at some point. Also, I would prefer to research everything, just in case...

IF we want to push Ghandi back to commie, then we could just sink his ironclads. What do you think?

Agree with WD on ironclads. Their win probability is rather low.

Niklas said:

Is this a serious suggestion? In any case I don't find it unreasonable, they would sure be better off in Communism than in Anarchy every other turn.

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Yes it was serious and it seems at least you and zyxy agree. The only other way to prevent their constant anarchy is to bombard all the ironclads before they have a chance to suicide. (Ironclads are the only source of Indian war weariness. That should make them go back to their ports to heal. To do this, we're going to have to have surveilance of all the indian ports but no boats within striking range of the ironclads. I don't know if this is possible.

zyxy said:

IF we want to push Ghandi back to commie, then we could just sink his ironclads. What do you think?

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IF we're going to push them back to Commie, then we can also redline the moat units every turn with artillery. Let's not kill them though or Ghandi will have to spend shields on replacing them.

We can also move the moat into our territory so they always have a unit in our borders.

Niklas said:

Gah, I've caught the flu. Seems my body couldn't handle the temperature transition...

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Hope you're feeling better. And don't get me sick! I'm heading to Florida on vacation in a few weeks.

OMT, watch the border with the Ottomans. It would be better for us to defend it with MA so no WW comes from his units attacking a defender. Their declaration of war was a little like another luxury for us.

SmurkzIntel, Operation Apollo.

One of SmurkzIntel's most secret operations, Operation Apollo started shortly after the succesful completion of The Tech Elevator Ride. Armed with funny spectacles and a large collection of flipflops, secret agent Methos arrived in Delhi somewhere around the year 1450 After Smurkz. He quickly won the confidence of Ghandi, not in the least because he had renounced Smurkz' citizenship long, long ago - all part of the cunning plan of course. The flipflops helped a lot too. Even so, agent Methos had to manipulate carefully to avoid suspicion and consequently the operation progressed only very slowly. It was not before the year 1695 After Smurkz, and only after a period of civil unrest, that Operation Apollo came to a favourable conclusion. Ghandi and his people now firmly believed that this earth was no place for them, and that it was time to leave.



Turnlog

Turn 0, 1690AD: Check on Delhi, 3 turns to go, India in Communism now.


Will try to keep them commie, so I redline some rambo's. India is allied with Ottomans against us, and has an MPP with America. Spain has MPP with Ottomans. We are at war with everyone except Spain.

Turn 1, 1695AD: In general I discontinue unit construction (we really have plenty), but will keep building armies and ships. Don't know what I'm supposed to do with Odda. It's building a settler at size 2. What good is a settler? Auto-disband? I'll switch to arty for now, next player can choose. sci 10%.

Turn 2, 1700AD: Forgot to check last turn, so I do it now:


Managed to miss the completion by one turn . Well, something for CB to incorporate in the spoiler . In any case, Apollo was clearly finished on the IT after 1690AD.

We can do Free Art in 1 at 0% sci, there are only two more techs left and both are completely useless (advanced flight and amphibious warfare), so although it hurts it is time to sell of libs/unis/labs to lower our culture rating. We currently do 500 cpt, after the sale it is 200 cpt. Free Art -> Advanced Flight.

Turn 3, 1705AD: Zentral switches to Shake's. India not building yet. I get to use Radar Arty. Nice graphix. I realise I forgot to save last turn. Sorry CF.
This doesn't happen a lot in my games:


Turn 4, 1710AD: no space parts yet. Indian galleon insists on going south, it will be hard to convince it otherwise.

Turn 5, 1715AD: zzz

Turn 6, 1720AD: zzz

Turn 7, 1725AD: Sink Spanish ironclad-galleon pair, at the cost of some privateers. Still no space parts. It's getting late, so I'll leave it at this and let the next person play.

The save

Not much to say. Wait for India to make a move, try not to get too bored .