GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
BBC News said:
Somehow there are still parts of the world that dont have Freedom of Religion and would rather have state controled churches.
Discuss.
Vatican Excommunicates new Chinese bishops
- Thread starter GenMarshall
- Start date
Somehow there are still parts of the world that dont have Freedom of Religion and would rather have state controled churches.
Discuss.
Erik Mesoy
Core Tester / Intern
What's to discuss? The Vatican won't accept bishops it didn't have a hand in ordaining, and China doesn't recognize the authority of the Vatican.
BTW, broken link at the bottom of the quote. You're missing [/url before the last ].
Here it is: Source Article
BTW, broken link at the bottom of the quote. You're missing [/url before the last ].
Here it is: Source Article
Irish Caesar
Yellow Jacket
It's sad that China's government has the same line here as for anything else: we'd like to not have problems like this, but the Vatican shouldn't talk to Taiwan, and then it'd be all okay.
Haven't heard of too many excommunications recently...
Haven't heard of too many excommunications recently...
Till
Adventurer
Investiture Controversy all over again! I shall follow this closely....article said:
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Blame it on the constant habit of always quoting people in OTErik Mesoy said:
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Kozmos
Jew Detective
The pope has been assassinated!All his excommunications and crusades are now considered null and void.A new pope has been elected....
Oerdin
Deity
Erik Mesoy said:
Then the Chinese should do what the Protestants did and declare themselves a different church then the Catholic one. But to continue to claim you're Catholic means you have to follow the 2000 year old system run by the Pope.
Yuri2356
Test Screening
My thoughts exactly. As long as their establishment claims to be Catholic, they'd bloody well better obey the word of Rome. And if they fail to schism on their own, B-16 should just toss out the whole heritical 'lot of them.Oerdin said:
Actually, it will be better if they decided to outlaw catholics all together, but alas its a religons that is 2000 yrs with deep root and will be hard to eradicate. Agreed that the catholics in china should try be like the protestant instead and not decided to listen to someone who takes "instruction" from his "god". So who shall we listen to? The guy or the god?
Sadly, there will still be many who wanted to believe in catholism, It will be hard to remove their faith and better than letting them to be in underground. A "fake" Bishop was appointed instead.
As an atheist government, the CPC is trying to be "moderate" with many bad results.
Its really up the the belief of the people, the chinese CPC to determine what they want.
Sadly, there will still be many who wanted to believe in catholism, It will be hard to remove their faith and better than letting them to be in underground. A "fake" Bishop was appointed instead.
As an atheist government, the CPC is trying to be "moderate" with many bad results.
Its really up the the belief of the people, the chinese CPC to determine what they want.
Shadylookin
master debater
i'm not entirely sure why the chinese government cares. 10 million people isn't even 1% of their population and when you factor in that probably not all of them are devout practicing catholics the numbers become even smaller.
aussieboy said:I would not say the CCP is the voice of the people. Remember Tianmen Square? They're COMMIES!
of coz, i wont say that the CCP has 100% support in the nation. There are a fair among of dissdent in the country alone. Many were surpressed.
What they are trying now is to give 5cents for every Dollar the people asked for. Even in a democracy, there isnt a way to satisfy 100% of the population.
silver 2039
Deity
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- Jul 26, 2003
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The Chinese State should crack down on these Cathloics and oter religous practices with exception to philosopipes.
Religous practices have no place in an atheist state.
Religous practices have no place in an atheist state.
7ronin
海軍少佐
Unfortunately, caught in the middle between the Chinese government and the Vatican are the ten million Chinese Catholics. They're the real losers in this political zero sum game.
The Chinese state has always cracked down on religious organizations. Nothing new there. Religious hierarchies are seen as challengers to imperial state power.
Way back during the Tang (1000+ years ago), the Empire had cracked down on the Buddhists hard, who were taking away too much land from the tax rolls (due to donations) and had too many ordained monks.
One reason why there was never anything like the Catholic Papacy in Chinese history.
Way back during the Tang (1000+ years ago), the Empire had cracked down on the Buddhists hard, who were taking away too much land from the tax rolls (due to donations) and had too many ordained monks.
One reason why there was never anything like the Catholic Papacy in Chinese history.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I'll link to this post the next time I need an argument in favour of theism.silver 2039 said:
Xenocrates
Deity
Yes China's history has been dogged by revolution, sometimes aided by the religious class. They haven't found a way to neutralise the chaotic power of religion, but unlike the Arabians etc. they choose to minimise the power of religion rather than succumbing to it. They allow people to practice but prevent them from causing trouble. Does that really sound like a bad idea to you?
BTW Tianamen square wasn't a pro-democracy demo. Many of the people there were committed communists who wanted an end to corruption.
BTW Tianamen square wasn't a pro-democracy demo. Many of the people there were committed communists who wanted an end to corruption.
plarq
Crazy forever
I thought this arrangement of Beijing is an insult to an atheist like me who values freedom of religion high. Although Chinese conservatives will argue that many uprising in China were inspired by religion, I would spit on the face of "stable regime" for its cruelty and possible crisis underflow of heavy oppression.
Edit: I was just inspired by some lights. Who the hell thinks a bishop assigned by Vatican is better than one by Beijing? Both are against the will of Catholic Christians without a vote!
Edit: I was just inspired by some lights. Who the hell thinks a bishop assigned by Vatican is better than one by Beijing? Both are against the will of Catholic Christians without a vote!
China vs the Vatican - talk about your irresistable forces vs immovable objects...
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
I'm not sure cause I am neither Catholic nor Christian, but aren't bishops are elected by the chapter and then receive papal confirmation before gaining post? If they aren't elected then confirmed, it is investiture which is a big no-no.plarq said:
Anyway, good for the Vatican.
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