Either there is a God, or there isn't.

Atheist or otherwise?

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I'm not familiar with the expression "bodice ripper romance", but it doesn't sound all that bad. :groucho:

The lowest tier of writing is the sugary insipidity found in those glossy magazines that airliners insist on producing and putting infront over every seat.

Edit: On looking up "bodice ripper" in Wikipedia, it does sound quite bad.
 
@atreas


The gnostics were a group who believed that you did not need proof of God and only faith was key, that they had knowledge of God without the need for questions,or to put it another way they claimed they knew God without any sort of evidence or revelation except that given by Christ, it wasn't fashionable and was largely forgotten as a belief system until fairly modern times when the philosophers of their day coined the term agnostic, meaning you could not know absolutely of the existence of God without evidence in direct oposition of the gnostics tennants.
 
Posting on a gaming forum.
 
Sidhe said:
@atreas


The gnostics were a group who believed that you did not need proof of God and only faith was key, that they had knowledge of God without the need for questions,or to put it another way they claimed they knew God without any sort of evidence or revelation except that given by Christ, it wasn't fashionable and was largely forgotten as a belief system until fairly modern times when the philosophers of their day coined the term agnostic, meaning you could not know absolutely of the existence of God without evidence in direct oposition of the gnostics tennants.
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Unfortunately, it's a wrong guess about the etymology: "agnostic" is a compound Greek word that means "no knowledge", and it is not created as the "opposite of gnostics" (in this case, it would be "agnosticist" and not "agnostic"). You can trust me on Greek words, it's in my element :).

Btw, you can check also the lemma in Wiki, it explains it quite well.

EDIT: PS. It is funny that we don't use this term in Greek - your intepretation would be better expressed by "antignostic" rathen than "agnosticist", on second thought.
 
warpus said:
An agnostic is someone who either claims that it is impossible to know whether God exists - or who is sitting on the fence and doesn't have a belief either way.

So if you believe that a God exists, you can't be agnostic.
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The second clause "or who is sitting on the fence and doesn't have a belief either way" is not valid. It doesn't come from the meaning of the word, but just from your perception about it.

Btw, your argument would work both ways, isn't it? Both an atheist and a theist wouldn't be able to be agnostics with your interpretation. It would seem to me that it would make it extremely difficult to find any "real" agnostic around.
 
I'm a theist. I believe in one God, who created the universe and mankind.
 
atreas said:
Unfortunately, it's a wrong guess about the etymology: "agnostic" is a compound Greek word that means "no knowledge", and it is not created as the "opposite of gnostics" (in this case, it would be "agnosticist" and not "agnostic"). You can trust me on Greek words, it's in my element :).

Btw, you can check also the lemma in Wiki, it explains it quite well.

EDIT: PS. It is funny that we don't use this term in Greek - your intepretation would be better expressed by "antignostic" rathen than "agnosticist", on second thought.
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Oh I know:) which is why I was trying to lead you away from etymology, the dictionary defintion isn't apt, the meaning was coined against a belief system, and was incorrect as far as direct meaning goes. Far be it from me to question your knowledge of Greek, God knows I barely read or interprit English well:D

In English we take a to mean the opposite thus asexual means without sex or sexual interest, and apolitical means without political belief. You can't trust the English to be literal about translation I guess?
 
atreas said:
The second clause "or who is sitting on the fence and doesn't have a belief either way" is not valid. It doesn't come from the meaning of the word, but just from your perception about it.
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Textbook case of argumentum ad etymologiam. Words don't necessarily mean what they etymologically "should" mean.

Textbook example: "nice", despite deriving from Latin nescius, doesn't mean "ignorant".
 
@TLC: I know that, that's why I had also checked on Wiki just in case there is a difference in English. The important part is this:

Agnosticism is distinct from, but compatible with, atheism. It is also compatible with theism. This is because agnosticism is a view about knowledge concerning God, whereas theism and atheism are beliefs (or lack thereof) concerning God. For example, it is possible to believe in God but to believe that knowledge about God is not obtainable.
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atreas said:
Btw, your argument would work both ways, isn't it? Both an atheist and a theist wouldn't be able to be agnostics with your interpretation. It would seem to me that it would make it extremely difficult to find any "real" agnostic around.
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An atheist can be agnostic - but you'd have to be a weak atheist to be considered one.

BTW how can a theist be an agnostic?
 
Elrohir said:
I'm a theist. I believe in one God, who created the universe and mankind.
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I can't see how one could be credited with creating the universe and not credited with creating mankind
 
Yeah Atreas just made it clear in pm, but thanks TLC.:)

El_Machinae said:
I can't see how one could be credited with creating the universe and not credited with creating mankind
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Erm, if I was God I'd admit creating the universe but that I may of screwed up in seeing just how far it's evolution would go, I mean mankind? It's not something you'd like to admit in a reflective moment. Who knows though, we may come through yet, give us time? Maybe I'm just being cynical.
 
El_Machinae said:
I can't see how one could be credited with creating the universe and not credited with creating mankind
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I don't know if anyone actually espouses such a belief, but I can easily imagine a Creator who creates the universe for some purpose unrelated to mankind, which just happens to develop on a little godforsaken planet in the outer reaches of one giant among billions.
 
I can more like imagine 'God' creating universe and mankind, and then leaving his creation on its own, his bastard child.
 
Pascal's wager:
If there is a god (even if it isn't the monotheistic God that some of us believe in) then practicing morality would get you a better standing in the eyes of the Overlord.

If there is a god (God) and you are immoral then you lose standing in the eyes of the Greater Being, and you will regret your descisions.

If there isn't a god (God) and you are moral then nothing would happen, you just lead a more acceptable life.

If there isn't a god (God) and you are immoral then you have nothing to fear, yet your actions will still be dishonorable.

Thus: If you accept the existance of a Geater being and act moral then you have a 100% chance of being on the good side of a god (God)

Whereas if you are immoral and do not accept a Greater Being, then you have a 50% chance of being trodden upon.


I believe in God. Thus I have a fairly high chance of having a good afterlife.
 
Unless someone abducts you and cryogenically freezes you, leaving you to float between life and death.
 
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