GOTM 07 First Spoiler - 500 AD

Cities.
On the first turn I moved my warrior SE, onto the hill, to get more information on the land. I decided to just go ahead and found Mecca on the spot I started on. I founded Medina to the West, at the end of the little cove, in 1780 BC. I founded Damascus directly North of Mecca in 775 BC. I founded Baghdad to the far west in 400 BC, to take advantage of the iron. In 200 AD I founded Najron to the NE of Mecca.

Wonders and Buildings
I built Stonehenge in Mecca in 1060 BC. I built the Kashi Vishwanath in Mecca in 475 BC. I completed the Parthenon in 410 AD. During this early period I worked mostly on building up my infrastructure to provide a solid foundation for mid and late game warfare.

Military and Politics
I met most of the other civs rather quickly, (I had contacted 4 by 3160 BC). There were very few military issues early in this game; I think I lost a warrior or two and a scout to barbarians, but that's about it.

Religion, Science, and Culture
I spent the majority of the start exploring and researching standard techs (agriculture, bronze working, etc.), as I tend to play somewhat more conservatively. I founded Hinduism and converted in 3490. I researched Iron Working in 700 BC, only to realise that the closest iron was quite a ways away; so I sent the next available settler west to claim the territory where the closest iron was. Shortly after 500 AD I founded Christianity (but remained an adherent of Hinduism). I was able to build up my culture well in this game, and wascounted the most cultured by the end of this period (I was also 2nd in points at the end of this period).

Well, my game is definitely unique, and I think you'll see why...

Going for my first ever clumsy, probably unsuccessful, cultural victory.

Opening Moves:
Well, I moved my warrior to the hill like everyone else, but I must have not looked close enough, as for some reason I thought that I would be missing the wheat. So, I moved my settler NE along the river. Since I was now in a very bad spot, I moved N again. Turns out this spot wasn't too bad . I still had the pigs, gained corn, still had enough forest, and some hills, not to mention the flood plains, and the oasis to help in the early game.


Decided to go warrior first, then worker, while going for Meditation. What I should have considered was that everyone had a turn headstart on me, and sure enough, I got beat out by 1 turn to Buddhism in 3640 BC.

Went right for Poly, and got it. Researched Ag and Animal Husbandry, getting a welcome horse in Mecca's fat cross. Meanwhile, I founded Stone River in 1840 BC on (surprise!) the river next to the stone.

Researched mining to Bronze Working so I could mine the hills by Mecca and see some bronze, not to mention chop. Again, got bronze in the fat cross! This spot kept getting better.

Then went for Mono, thinking that someone would beat me to it, especially since I had contacted Izzy, but nope, I got Judaism in Stone River. I then built Stonehenge in Mecca, using Moses to build the Hindu wonder in 685 BC.

Meanwhile, in 940BC I had founded Wine Coast on the coast next to the wine (again, surprise). I also captured Bulgar from barbs to the NE on the river next to the dyes, only to have Caesar declare war on me 5-10 turns later for no apparent reason. He captured Bulgar on the first turn (maybe I shouldn't have had open borders?).

At this point I probably should have switched to heavy military production, but I was holding him off, and I really didnt care all that much about Bulgar anyway. So far, Caesar hasn't made much a move, but since Izzy converted to Hinduism, I think I could get her to come into war if I needed to. And of course, being Caesar, he won't go for a cease-fire.

Meanwhile, I had founded Christianity in Wine Coast, 4th city Gold Hill to the NW near the gold, and in , got Phil and founded Confucianism in Gold Hill.

As of right now, I think I'm not looking too bad. I just hope Caesar will come to his senses sometime soon and go for a cease-fire... I have Stonehenge, Oracle, the Hindu wonder and close to Chichen Itza in Mecca, I have Church of the Nativity and Temple of Solomon in Wine Coast and Stone River, and planning on getting some wonders in those once I get them up to production. We'll see how it goes. Will I get crushed by Praetorians? Who knows...

PS(is this the right move with great artists or do they work better as culture bombs)

Click to expand...

They work better when added to one your culture cities when spawned in the early game (oh, say, prior to 300-500 AD). They work better as culture bombs when spawned later. I typcially add 1 to 3 to cities and culture bomb with the rest.

Some of you who are trying cultural victory for the first time may be interested in the guide linked to in my signature.

Good luck to all! (And BTW, I went for a diplo in this game.)

Am currently passed 1000AD, but wrote this spoiler around 650AD. The spoiler ends in 500 AD nonetheless.


The Plan:

Unlike the previous two GOTM, this game really motivated me, and as a result, I did significant testing based on the starting screenshot, and decided on a somewhat unusual course of action. The general plan was a domination victory (possibly with some milking at the end, depending on time constraints.), with the main wave of attack (the one that would gain enough land to assure victory) making use of our unique unit, the Camel Archer. So far, that may seem rather normal. How we get there, is where I planned to choose a rather unconventional path…

My test games showed a few elements which were likely on this type of map, and which would form the bases of my plan:
-LOTS of jungles, meaning that good city sites were rare, or at least needed to be developed, which means IW, and lots of workers. Early cities are thus likely to be unhealthy, and unproductive.
-Starting with Mysticism and flood plane, I was able to get first to Meditation in all my test.
-My test showed that as long as I had a token defense force, my capital was not attracting AI forays until about year zero.
-FP in the capital are screaming for cottage spamming.

So… I came up with the idea of setting up a library based science city (with double GP production, the academy can be had really early.), and combine that with a CS slingshot (double production and gold in capital) to set up a HUGE science city as soon as possible, and try to get Macemen and Camels for my FIRST invasion! This of course meant not wasting time with any settler building, and thus waiting for colonization of my second city until after the slingshot. Still, a couple of test showed that I could, using this technique, reliably get the first Macemen out before 300BC, and have about 4 cities founded at that time. That founded like a fine start to me, so that is what I settled on for a plan.



The initial decisions:

Because I have decided to go for Meditation (The extra happy face from religion proved to be essential to my plan in testing, and Meditation is on the path to the CS slingshot, so it makes sense to choose its religion.), founding in place was the only real option (loosing a turn and the floodplain until growth is too risky.) I am happy with that in any event, since I am comfortably squeezing another city at the wine, if indeed the visible water edge is a lake/ocean, and not a river, and also since the blue circle suggest to me that there will be metal two squares west of the starting location. At this stage, I also noticed that the pig is on a river. I had not realized that from the starting screenshot, and I test-bedded without it. I don’t think it makes a significant difference, but if anything, it can only be better! So, without further ado, I settle in place.

Founding the city revealed an oasis, whales, and wheat all outside the fat cross, and made me second guess my decision to found in place for a few seconds. Still, upon reflection, I realized the whales were never a real option, and that the oasis and wheat would actually be just as well used by filler cities a little later on. Plus, I still have my faith in the blue circles promising something good on the western edge of my fat cross.

After founding, obviously I begin research on Meditation. I also start work on a warrior, since settlers are not part of my early plans, and I won’t need a worker for a while given that I am going for a religion.

I start moving my existing warrior in a generally northerly direction, off to explore the world around us, and hit enter to end the turn.



Early assessment of the world - 3970:

With everyone having played, I can now look at some of the information screens and take stock of the situation…

From the victory condition screen, I note that I have 6 rivals, and own 14.29% of the world population, so it seems that everyone founded a city on turn one. I also note that the 7 land squares I control constitute .79% of the world, indicating that the world contains 880 to 900 land squares, and thus that about 570 are required for domination.

I then take a look at the demographics. I have 10 gpt, with one size at 11, and all the others apparently at 9 (judging by the average and worst). As long as the lobe team with 11 gpt did not start with mysticism, then I should get meditation. I like my odds on that. I am also pleased to note that no-one has more than 2 production per turn, and that I am the only team at 5 food per turn, so I should grow roughly as quickly as others (despite their bonus), and not fall too far behind in production.

Overall, I like what I see.


The early years:

Nothing much happens for the next few turns. My warrior continues to explore, but finds nothing of note. In 3760, my city grows, and I start working a second floodplain. I found Buddhism in 3610, and must pick my next research… I am heading towards pottery as quickly as possible, so this means fishing or agriculture. Fishing is slightly faster, but agriculture will lead to animal husbandry, which I can use to hook up the pigs, so I decide for the farming path.

A few years later, in 3520, I run into Toku, and we agree to peace. I finish my warrior in 3400, just as I reach a city size of 3 (thanks to a bit of micromanaging) and start on a worker, who is timed to arrive right around the time I discover pottery.

A few more eventless turns pass until I meet with Alex in 3220, followed by Julius C. in 3130…. Gee! Toku, J.C., Alex… All that is missing is Genghis and Isabella, and all the war whackos will be here! I am starting to get a little nervous about one of these turning on me before my Macemen come to fruition, tho as far as I can tell, they are all starting pretty far away, so I am not too worried, yet!

Having said that, in the next few turns, I start seeing more and more animals running around, and some of the AI’s are getting in the general area of my land, so I decide that it is time to call back one of my warriors home for defense. In any event, the map is starting to be pretty exposed, and I have yet to find a single hut. I don’t think it very likely that I will find one now, so coming home is not such a bad thing. The second warrior continues to explore in the hope of meeting the missing warmongers.

Random though at this point: Where there even any huts on this map to begin with???

In 2950, I learn pottery, and start studying writing, in line with the plan of getting a library as quickly as possible. Next turn, a worker completes, and I start producing a granary while in the same time, cottaging the 3 floodplains.


Time passes:

Time continues to pass… I am busy putting up cottages, and my capital is growing. I meet Vicky (at last, someone moderately sane and peaceful) in 2830, and in 2740, Hinduism is founded in a distant land. My city is busy working all the cottages, and starting with the growth in 2710, also the pigs.

In 2470, we get a report on the most advanced civilizations in the world. I am sixth, which is not a surprise, since I passed many cheap techs on the way to writing. The unknown nations are third and seventh. On this same year, I learn writing, and start mining, both because I need to get mines up on the two hills in the capital to make the Oracle for the slingshot, and also because slavery and whipping will be needed as I hit the happy limit in the not too distant future.

In 2380, JC asks for open borders, and I see no reason to refuse. I get mining in 2290, and start studying bronze. I start putting up mines on the hills a couple of turns latter (as soon as I finish the third and last cottage), and finally convert to Buddhism for the needed happy face (arguably I should have done this earlier. I didn’t want to get anyone mad at me before I needed to, and didn’t think the culture was that important. Still not 100% convinced this was the correct approach). In 2110, I meet HC, and on that same year, open borders with Vicky at here request.



The Bronze ages:

My Bronze ages started in 1960, with the discovery of the precious metal on one of the hills in my capital! I briefly wonder if this means the blue circle was pointing to Iron, and thus that I have both metals in my capital? What a starting position that would be! In any event, for now, I have bronze, which means that at least I am guaranteed a metal for my Macemen, which is a bit of a relief.

I also find Isabella this same year.

Having learned Bronze working, I turn to priesthood on the way to the slingshot. In the meantime, I open borders with HC in 1900, and in 1870, having converted to slavery, I whip the library to completion, and the following year, put up a pair of scientist to produce a great wizard that will build my academy. I learn priesthood in 1810, and calculate that I have time to insert one cheap tech before CoL, and still get the slingshot timing right. Animal husbandry to get the pigs a pasture is the obvious choice.

Nothing much to report for the next few years. I open borders with Alex in 1690, and in 1630, I learn husbandry, and start on CoL. Husbandry finally answered the blue circle mystery, as horses, not iron, appeared to be the justification for the circle’s recommendation. Oh well, I have no real use for horses in my strategy, but at least a pasture on the square will make it worth working.

I whip a granary to completion in 1420, and get to work on the Oracle. In 1120, the first hint of conflict arises, and Alex shows up asking me to close borders with Vicky. Not wanting to anger anyone at this stage, I decide to give him what he wanted. A few turns later, in 1060, I learn CoL, and found Confusism. I convert, with an eye towards using the free profit to spread it faster, and start learning the alphabet, so that I can trade for the techs I skipped.


The slingshot and expansion:

Time passes until 910 BC, when the Oracle is completed, and I of course use it to get CS, and convert to bureaucracy. With a library, an academy, 3 developed cottages, and the bureaucratic bonus, my capital is a monster! With this first goal accomplished, its time to start on my first settler, and to catch up on the land grab which I have been neglecting.

I discover the alphabet in 835, and start working on metal casting (on the path to macemen and camel). This same year, I finish a settler and send him 4W1N of the capital, where he will share the horses, and put up a nice second city. I start work on an axmen as I need *some* defense in these new colonies while I wait for macemen. The following year, and Vicky’s request, I close borders with Greece.

At this point, I also complete a pair of trades: I get IW from JC for pottery, writing and mysticism, and I get masonry, hunting and fishing from Vicky for mysticism and writing. One year later, I also get archery from Vicky for meditation.

I whip a second settler in 760, and use him to found my third city near the stones in 715. For the next several centuries, I continue to build setters, and escort them with axmen, and I expand my empire.



The early Spanish war:

In 445, Isabella the Insane declares war on my!!! Why, is a mystery? She has two warriors in range of a city guarded by an axmen, which a second axmen within response range. Both warriors die within a turn of her declaring, and her invasion was over!

In 335, I traded meditation and priesthood to HC for Polytheism, and in 310, I discovered how to produce maceman! As these started rolling out the production queue in the next few years, my people suddenly felt very safe despite nominally being still at war with Spain.

On that subject, the war came to an end in 130BC, as I sued for peace, and got monotheism. So, as a result of her war, Isabella the Insane lost two warriors, gave me monotheism, and did not manage to inflict ANY damage on my empire. Well done!!

After this war followed a few years of peace, during which time I traded monarchy and monotheism to Vicky for math and sailing.

As of 50AD, I held 14.6% of the world population, compared to 16% for Isabella, and 8.3% of the worlds land, compared to 12% for HC. Not great, but of course, there is no power on the planet that can currently withstand my macemen, so its about time to do a little pointy stick expansion.



The early crussades:

125 AD, I declare on JC, for the simple reason that he has some decent cities which I want. I bring a couple of macemen and 3 axmen to the party, which is more than enough to take his two nearest cities. I then give him peace (in 365AD) as I regroup and wait for my economy to catch up. At this point, I realize that HC, Vicky, Alex, Toku, and Isa are ALL Jewish, which pretty much means they are all annoyed with me. Oh well… My Macemen should keep them in their places for now.

Peace only lasted a couple of turns. During it, I was able to trade monarchy, mono, and horseback to HC for calendar and 130g. As a result of this trade, HC took over the score lead. He also had a city far away from his empire, and near to mine, which happened to have a couple of happy resources. That was just too tempting a combination so….

440 AD, I declare on HC, for the sole purpose of taking this city (the one which is not yet converted to my culture in the below screenshot), which I do quickly.

During the war, I learn paper, and decide to study currency next (for trading flexibility) followed by philosophy, on the way to some liberalism slingshot. The only other things of note that happen before 500AD is that Vicky comes along demanding Horseback riding, which I give here, since my economy cannot support another war right now. I also switch to Serfdom, since I have no cities ready to whip for a while, so I may as well take advantage of the worker bonus.

After taking is outlaying city, the war with HC has gone stagnant. As soon as the 10 year minimum is up, I will dial him up, and offer peace (Hopefully he will even pay a bit for it.)



Assessment:

The state of the empire at 500 AD is good!

I am first in score, and near the lead in power. I am also first in food, and competitive in production. I lag behind a bit in commerce, but my science capital is making up a lot for that. Also, I am still the only one with the knowledge of alphabet, so I still control the trading game.

Plans for the future include a significant land grab in the near future to begin my march towards domination. Vicky or JC are likely candidates based on geography. Camel are also not far away, and I plan to make a series of invasions with Macemen and Camel to get me to at least ~50% of land. At that time, I will decide if I need to push on, or if I need to find better troops (cavs? I can upgrade to those, right?) before pushing all the way to the domination limit.



Screenshot

Attached is a globe view of the world in 500AD, giving an impression of the geography of my empire.

BLubmuz said:

A question:
Toku is always closed, and he is always behind in techs, in all my games ... does it depends from leader traits, or else?

Click to expand...

Each leader has their own personality. Toku won't trade tech unless almost everyone has it, so he ends up way behind on techs. Also, he's the only leader who won't Open Borders unless he's at least Pleased with you. Basically, he's a big jerk.

BLubmuz said:

One last thing:
After completed my game, i started a new game with the adventurer save, just to see about huts:
i popped 2 (both gaining experience ) so i suppose no other contender player popped, like i did, a single hut.

Click to expand...

I played contender and popped only one hut, in my testgame I popped 5, so probably edited by the staff, and to be honest it's much fairer this way

After the warrior move to reveal the wheat, I decided to move my settler two steps to the north for the hills, floodplains and pigs. The second city would come just left of my wheat field. I had a GP farm for my capital so the flood plains could come in handy, it did btw. a lot of GP generated, the most in all my games, this was the first time specializing and it help, now learning to specialize other kinds of cities...

Took over one barbarian city, lost one city to the barbarians, they razed it, but actually this was good because I placed it wrongly. I placed it to the north in the jungle and it couldn't grow from the start, didn't think about it. The spot to the north were taken in by Caesar and Victoria later on.

I was struggling with only 5 cities, so I attacked Isabella for her cities (she was the weakiest), failed. Got attacked by Inca (same religion and largest population:-(

I was planning on cultural victory so I focused on culture but with only 5 cities it was going to be difficult to keep everyone of my back... to be continued...

I'm playing the standard Contender class. Like everyone else I spotted the Wheat with my warrior, but I decided to take a chance and send my Settler NNE. On turn 2 I settled on the river next to the oasis, a position I've been quite happy with.

My early strategy was to secure an early religion and bronze working while exploring my surroundings then decide if I should be peaceful or warlike. I founded Hinduism without difficulty. My exploration indicated that I was surrounded by a ridiculous amount of gold, gem, and dye resources, with no neighbors really close by. I decided that I should try to become filthy rich, use this to get a tech lead, and use that to either win the Space Race or build an unstoppable army.

My first settler founded my second city, Medina, to the west of Mecca, at the end of the bay near the two gold and the gems. It wasn't the best spot for short-term purposes but I knew it woudl be an awesome research and science center and I wnated to start developing it right away. My third city, Damascus, went to my east, on the hill between the wheat and the wine. One thing I'd failed to think through was that this meant that the bronze I'd discovered, which was outside of Mecca's cross on account of my early move, was also outside of Damascus's initial borders.

Besides the settlers a couple of workers, a few warriors, and a scout who promptly got killed. My scouting in general was pretty poor. I knew about my immediate surroundings, but the barbs were surprisingly numerous early on and I was forced to pull back my warriors for defense.

I wanted to try for the Oracle CS slingshot so after my initial research I went for Priesthood, A. Husbandry, Pottery, and Writing. I built a temple in Mecca so I could start working on a Great Prophet. Damascus worked on the Oracle.

I decided that Organized Religion would be a nice civic to run so I detoured my research a bit to get it. This founded Judaism in Medina. Then I went for Code of Laws, and was lucky enough to have Confucianism founded in Medina as well. My dreams of a super-commerce city were becoming reality. I used my first two Great Prophets to found the Jewish and Confucian shrines, and both spread their faith quite effectively. Caesar adopted Judaism as his state religion, while Vicky took Confucianism. I flip-flopped between the two depending on which cities I wnated to boost production in, before ultimately settling in as Jewish.

By now my fourth settler was ready, but sadly the spot I wanted to the NE, near all the dye and the rice, had just sprouted a barbarian city. There was a second barb city NW of that, in the jungle near the gold. And there were enough barbarians coming at me across the desert to the west that I thought there might be a barb city over there too. I was still waiting for culture expansion to get me Bronze so there was no way to take out these barbarian cities. So I took the best site available to me and settled the 4th city (Baghdad) north of Mecca and Medina, near the mountain range and the stone resource.

I'd seen more barbarian attacks than usual, but they came in trickles so I was able to use my road network to gang up on them with warriors and stop them from hurting me much. But around 1 AD my luck ran out. A damaged barbarian archer attacked my full-strength-fortified-on-a-hill-in-a-city warrior and won, capturing Damascus and ruining my attempt at the Oracle. (Turns out I would have missed it anyway).

Thankfully, I finally had access to Bronze. All of my cities were shifted to Axeman production. However, I'd only just popped a few of these out when Isabella declared war on me. She had expanded up to my western border. Her initial attacks were laughable, but they did delay my recapture of Damascus.

So around 400 AD my situation was not so hot. I was doing quite well in tech and money, but my military was weak, I had four cities, I had no room left to expand in, and I was at war. Heck, even the barb cities I'd oped to grab had been captured by Vicky and Tokugawa.

I decided that my only hope of recovery was all-out aggression. I had Catapults now to complement my Axemen, while Isabella seemed to be relying on Chariots and Archers. So I continued to build up my military and began an offensive against her that was still underway in 500 AD.

I decided to found in place, on the grounds that after my warrior revealed two resources 1 sq outside the natural starting city radius to the east, the only possible reason for the blue circle being where it was and not 1 sq E or SE was if there were minable resources in them thar hills. Of course by now you all know whether or not my reasoning was correct...

It was a somewhat easier game than I thought it would be (not that my result will feature very highly - I can never quite be bothered to go all out on the conquering - I feel as if I'm missing out on the midgame if I do that). I out-expanded the other civs, particularly to the north, leaving a space or two for fill-in cities later. Two barb cities were brought under my iron fist, and after alphabet I had a city lead and a tech lead, and that's without bothering with the Oracle or Pyramids.

I perhaps should have just set a-conquering at this stage. Instead, I decided to go for diplo, and made a rough plan of biding my time while one or two of Issy, Alex, Toku, and Julius wreck their reputations with wars, closed borders, and Issy and Alex being the only non-Hindu nations. That way I'd be able to invade as many as needed without diplomatic penalties.

Vynd - We're the only people that have settled there, and it's interesting how the barb cities that gave me problems popped up in the exact same places as the ones that gave you problems. One in the jungle by all the dye and one to the NW of the desert by the incense & sugar. I also failed to capture either... the key for me, though, was chariots. They mess up those barb archers and warriors pretty well

Not to mention our city placements are almost the same as well.

I founded Mecca on the hill to the east.

Medina, I founded to the west on the coast with the 2 gold mines in the radius. I went light on military for a while and went for a CS slingshot. Got that easily. I had Civil Service before I had mining!

I mined the gold around Medina and an extra hill. This was going to be my gold city. As luck would have it, I found more gold in Medina on the open hill!! A city with 2 food resources and 3! gold mines.

I spread Confucanism to all my cities, all Roman cities, and all English cities. It spread to a few Incan and Japanese cities on its own.

At about 500 AD, I have 8 very prosperous cities, friendly relations with Rome and England. I have been at war with Isabella, Tokugawa, and Hyuna off and on for a while.

Mecca has farms everywhere, with the National Epic there, running pacificism

In pursuit of the Cultural Victory

People who know me from playing on GameSpy are well aware of that my favourite leader is Saladin and my favourite type of victory is Cultural. The game of this month thus suits me well.

Without going into every aspect of cultural victory it can be taken as a general guideline that all buildings generating culture should be built before 500 ad, at least if you pursue an early cultural victory. It takes 1000 years for them to get doubled cultural value so there is quite a difference between completing a wonder in the year 500 ad or in the year 1000 ad. A wonder (or any building) completed in 500 ad will bring in twice as much culture from the 16th century forth, while a wonder built in 1000 ad will not produce double culture until the 21st century, which is way too late. If you happen to have Great Engineers around 500 ad it is time to use them.

How are the culture cities coming along?
I'm pretty content the way things have turned out. I have chosen my 3 cultural cities. In the year 500 my capital has Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, Sistine Chapel and National Epic. Medina has the Parthenon. Both cities have a library and a couple of monasteries. Theatres are coming up soon. The third city is not nearly as good. It has nothing but a library and a theatre is on the way. I plan to get some culture there by letting artists join the city and by making cottages.

What is the religous situation?
I have Hinduism, Judaism and Confucianism. I will found Taoism next trun. Hyana Capac founded Buddhism (we all know that by now) and Julius founded Christianity. I hope I will be able to get my hands on those religions through war or other means. I will of course allso grab Islam if it is possible. Given the fact that I have access to stone and copper but not marble I would really prefer Buddhism and Christianity over Hinduism and Islam, but I hope I will somehow get to build all seven cathederals before the end.

How did I start out?
Like many others I moved the settler east to the plains hill. It was a great thing, I have never regretted it. Since the move wasted a turn, and since I decided to build a worker straigth away, I researched mining instead of religion. When I got the message that Buddhism was founded I decided to take my chances with Hinduism after all. My warrior did an initial scoutsweep to the west before going north where it came upon Tokugawa. I attacked him as soon as I could capture a worker and I was able to make peace a few turns later. Unfortunately the worker was killed by animals on the way home.

Research: Mining - Polytheism - Bronze Working - Fishing - Masontry - Monotheism

Build: Worker - Warrior (City grows to 2) - Settler - Settler - Workboat

I think this worked out excellent. To the west is a very, very good location for a first expansion. On the plains west of the gold on the grassland hill (?), near the 2 fish in the water. Make sure to bring a worker and a workboat from the capital and you have a nice expansion up and running in no time. There are a few squares of desert but nothing you can't live with. I founded my second expansion near the stone. It is a crappy city that never seems to really take off. Partially because it was siezed by barbarians for a couple of turns.

Plans for the future?
I have 6 cities at the moment and I am at war with Victoria. (She was the one who started it) On a standard size map you need no less than 9 cities in order to be able to build all cathederals in all 3 of your main culture cities. This is a problem that has to be dealt with. It is most likely that I will have to attack someone other than Victoria. Hyana Capac comes into mind as he has got a religion I am missing. To be continued...

Like so many others, the first thing I did was moving the warrior to the hill, to find that there's wheat down there, and the peninsula ends just where the fat cross would. So, I move the settler to the plains/hill. I was thinking about playing challenger, but decided against it, since without the warrior that first scouting move wouldn't be possible.
I figured that with the turn lost for moving, and being unable to work a decent commerce tile on turn 1, I didn't bother with an early religion. Instead I researched agriculture, husbandry, mining, and fishing before deciding that I might just try for Judaism. By that time, Buddhism had long been founded, but no signs of even Hinduism yet. So I went for polytheism first, while I was researching it Hinduism got FIDAL, so next was masonry and then monotheism for Judaism.
That came in by 1600BC, I had 3 cities at that time, and, which struck me as unusual, it didn't get founded in the most recent one, but rather in the second one I built.

I founded Medina in 2440BC right above the crabs, with one gold hill, fish, crabs, horses and the oasis in range. Damascus, in 2050BC, was placed between the gold, gems, cows and incense (and as turned out later, the second copper).

(screenshot from 625BC)


I didn't have stone early on, and no marble was in sight (somebody played around with resource distribution, eh?), so I decided against building any wonders, figuring that a CS slingshot would be impossible anyway, and Pyramids would have required getting the stone earlier.
In the end it turned out that all the wonders got built very late, and I could have gotten several of them if I had just tried. Some numbers:
565BC Stonehenge
475BC Oracle
325BC Pyramids
335AD Parthenon
First wonder I built myself was the Hanging Gardens in 380AD. I was able to capture Stonehenge and the Great Lighthouse from Rome, and after the scope of this spoiler also got Parthenon and the Pyramids.

Which brings us to military. In 1120BC I founded my fourth city, Baghdad, to deter the romans to advance too far in my direction, it had a gold, cow and sugar resource. A few turns later it turned out that this city also had my only iron source, unfortunately the romans had one too, right next to their capital. Interesting...

(screenshot from 625BC)


The first war against Rome broke out in 160BC; I captured and razed a city between Baghdad and my inner core, then advanced eastwards, to take Pisae north of Baghdad, and Antium, the Stonehenge city, to its east. Peace was signed in 65AD.
In 485AD then, I declared war again, to take the rest of Rome - Rome itself fell in 530AD, the war ended in 725 with their elimination. In all those years, I have seen one praetorian, who lost the only battle it ever fought. Pillaging is your friend... .

Three more cities were added over the years to the initial core, and the roman area was made productive then. (this shot is from 980AD, I didn't have earlier ones that show it, but it looked the same by 500AD)



On the religious side, it turns out that HC founded Buddhism, Alex much later got Hinduism, and as mentioned, I'm the one with Judaism. Toku got Confucianism later. I think this is my first game ever with Isabella not getting a single religion. Well, to be fair, she got Christianity some day, but at that time, she was already completely jewish. Victoria was jewish, too, as was JC before his elimination, but both only had one or two cities following the faith. Everybody else had their own religion.

So, what else...I think that's it. I finished the game already, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say anything about that yet, so I'll leave it for later. It's been a fun game!

AluminumKnight said:

Vynd - We're the only people that have settled there, and it's interesting how the barb cities that gave me problems popped up in the exact same places as the ones that gave you problems. One in the jungle by all the dye and one to the NW of the desert by the incense & sugar. I also failed to capture either... the key for me, though, was chariots. They mess up those barb archers and warriors pretty well

Not to mention our city placements are almost the same as well.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw your post and noticed that we'd happened to make very similar starts. I'll bend the rules a bit and admit that when I did more exploring later I saw no sign of a barbarian city NW of the desert. Apparently I was just unlucky and had many random barbarian start over there and head in my direction All of the barbarian cities that I did see were NE of the area we start in.

I wish I'd built some chariots, or even some more warriors. I could have pop-rushed an extra unit in the city under threat, but that would have ruined my chance at the Oracle and I thought it was overkill anyway. The odds must have been something like 15:1 in my favor. But I have to admit that I often try and get by with the bare minimum in military early in the game. Usually I can make it work. Naturally it would have to blow up in my face in the GOTM game.

Ah well, at least no one will question if I restarted.

I founded 1e on the hill, built a warrior or two, then a worker. I embarked on a measured course of chopping, whipping and improvements. I researched bronze working first, of course, then a few worker techs, then the techs for a CS slingshot. The slingshot was successful. I founded three cities in rapid succession - one in the golded vale to the west, one in the plains to the north (picking up stone with culture expansion) and one to the east in the valley. Later, cities were added to the NW to create a production center and to the east to pick up iron. I found the Romans to be very weak. So, I chose them as the first domino. I don't remember the timeline, so I won't give any more details. But, I built no more citiies and the dominos fell to an eventual domination in ***the second spoiler***.

First of all, I didn’t keep notes of my game (wish I had though) so this is based on the event log, a few save games and my memory…

I thought about going for a culture win (which I had never pulled off) and to make that work I needed a city with a good amount of GP output. I studied the starting location for a long time, ended up moving the warrior SE only to discover that it was an dead end, after a lot more thought I finally decided to go with my initial thought in the pre-game thread and settle 1N, despite the recommendation of the game, hoping to get an additional floodplain to the north (trade and food) and it would also net me an extra hill for some production in the capital. Mecca founded in 3970 and I had my warrior doing my usual circle around the starting city hoping to find locations for additional cities (half-circle in this case as we are close by the coast). The location of Mecca turned out even better than I had hoped with an oasis now inside the fat cross.

I went for an early religion and founded Hinduism in 3520 then I went through Mining to Bronze Working in 2740 while building first a warrior and then a worker, I chopped a settler while researching Masonry soon founding Medina just south of the stone, Medina would also get the gems and corn as the fat cross expanded. Monotheism was next tech and I founded Judaism in 1960, quickly followed by Agriculture and Animal Husbandry so I could hook up my corn, pig and the newly discovered Horses. A second settler was chopped along with another worker and Damascus founded west of the capital in 1360 with 2 gold, 2 fish and cows in it’s area it made up for a position with a bit of desert. Mecca built Stonehenge before adding my final settler for the entire game. The settler was supposed to secure the dye and rice to the east, but a barbarian city had shown up there.

Time for a break in 655 BC, some fresh air is good for the mind.

I founded Baghdad a bit further north in 580 with access to gold, copper and rice. I had met all the other civs by now, with both Izzy, Toku and Alex in the mix I wouldn’t get very far without a war or five. Sure enough Alex declared war on Izzy while I was researching towards CoL, founding Confucianism in the process; I then pulled off the CS slingshot with the Oracle and began spreading Hinduism around, first converting Vicky then Alexander. HC had founded Buddhism and Izzy had joined in, hopefully they’d jump at each other rather than me.

In 175BC Mecca completed the Pyramids and I switched to Representation, shortly after that I captured Zapotec, the barbarian dye city. Theoligy popped up in 130 so I founded Christianity as well and I made a quick stop to pick up Pottery. In 85BC Vicky declared war on me totally unexpected, ouch, I barely managed to fight off the initial attack, the rest of this war became quite uneventful even though it lasted until 275AD. During the war I detoured my research to Iron Working, only to find no iron around my land. I also converted JC to Hinduism and things were looking very good on the religious front. In 125AD Mecca completed the Chichen Itza while I was researching the Alphabet. Alex declared war against Izzy again in 170.

305 AD: Very eventful year. Alex took Barcelona. Toku converted to Judaism, what a powder keg we’ve got around and HC declared war on me, this time I had the veteran units from the English war for defence. I picked up a selection of techs at this point, some traded, some researched: Meditation, Drama and Mathematics.

In 395 Alex captured Santiago and Izzy seemed to be in great trouble.My own war against HC was gaining pace and in 440 I captured Huamanga followed by Machu Picchu in 485, my force was loads of Axemen and not much else.


Rest to follow later

Looks like there are some good games going here !

In my game, I settled one move east, on the hill, after my warrior scouted out the coast and revealed the resource out there. I think this is probably (and happily for me) the best spot even if it costs you a turn, as you garner all the southern resources without overlap and still can reach the coast, which is minimized, AND get a 1 hammer bonus for settling upon the hill forever. How many hammers will that be by the end of the game?

Anyhow, things went well and I got just about every spot I wanted, excepting far to the west which was stolen! from me by the Spanish!

I cant remember really what I have built, but the game seems to be shaping up in a three way of alliances:

Me and Julius the Hindus
Alex and Victoria the Jews
Huayna, Tokugawa and Spain the Buddhists

There have been no wars that I know of up to 500AD. Here is a screenshot of my four core cities, which I have two more cities, one west of Damascus and one northeast of Damascus in the jungle.



I hope this doesn't gather the ire of the admins, that I am actually in 995, but I think there is nothing can be considered a spoiler here.

Philosophical and Spiritual leaded me directly to the plan of a Cultural Victory (my first ever). On this moment I'm still on that same course.

I founded Mecca on the plain hills to the east of the startposition, researched polytheism and founded my first religion. Then started building Stonehenge to provide myself with great prophets, improving that ratio later on with the Oracle. I placed my second city in between the corn and the stone. Rushed towards monotheism and theology, founding 2 more religions. By 20AD I had the 3 shrines og those religions, provdiding me with a positive bank account while holding science at 100%. Founded a third city north beyond the river, along the border of Japan.

Techwise is average, constantly standing equal or 1 tech back. Planning to remain peacefull with our eastern neighbours, England and Rome, while using camel archers to destroy Spain and everything else around.

@Yushal:
sorry, I don't want to sound like a smartass here, but if you're looking for something to improve on your gameplay, try having a few more terrain improvements! Mecca looks ok, but both Medina and Damascus are working unimproved squares, and resources there aren't connected.

I seems to always be trailing in the game in the last position. I got totally wiped in my first game Japan, Rome, and Greek declared war on me around the same time. I moved about 2 tile W of the starting and that was a bad move. I didnt have enough of the resources to compete early on.

From there it was just on bad move after another. 2nd city was by wine and rice. but it was so late in the game that the barbarians kept attacking me because i had only one warrior to defend.

Well i am on game 2 now and i hope i do better. I decided this time to plant right where they suggest but you miss out on rice and wine in terms of use. and i dont want to plant another city so close. If i bomb in this also then I move 1e to the hill and try there.

Any suggestions?