Does blue circle really good for city location?
- Thread starter Artosoft
- Start date
Blue Circles tend to point out locations that would grab several resources. They are often NOT good city locations however as the computer often fails to take all the circumstances into account.Artosoft said:
The most common example is the computer suggesting a city site that is one tile away from the coast. Which is usually a bad idea as without the ability to build a lighthouse coastal and ocean squares are merely one food and essentially worthless.
I don't think the blue circles take into account your neighbors.
I recently built two cities several tiles away from the 'blue circles' so I could a) prevent the persians from getting copper, and b) block the persians ability to expand.
I recently built two cities several tiles away from the 'blue circles' so I could a) prevent the persians from getting copper, and b) block the persians ability to expand.
Martinus
Emperor
As Araqiel pointed out, the blue circle points locations that capture several resources, and generally tend to be locations with transport access (rivers or coastal areas) and ones that would guarantee a more or less balanced growth. It won't help you though if you are looking for a good specialized city place, such as a unit factory or a great people farm.
Hey Joni
Warlord
A question - does the AI build its cities according to the blue circles? Anybody?
carl corey
Deity
One more thing: sometimes the blue circle seems to put you in a position with not that many resources in the fat cross. That usually seems to mean that there are some new resources that are likely to appear there, like copper, iron or horses.
Proteus
King
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Messages
- 714
Hey Joni said:
It looks like they normally do it.
If, after a war, I send my settlers to the locations of razed cities,
normally there is a blue circle at the tile with the ruins of the city.
As for my strategies:
Most of the times I build my cities at the tile with the blue circle,
but there are also times (10-20 % of the cases) where I build them elsewehere,
because another spots better fits my strategy
Calder
Warlord
The blue circle I think represents the best settling site according to whats visible at the time (in terms of a balanced F/H/C). The more fog you uncover, you'll find the blue circle will change location.
Underdawg
King
carl corey said:
To me, I think this is the only really good part about the blue circles, otherwise they are just a distraction.
carl corey
Deity
In my latest game with Cyrus I had Wine and one Clam tile in my fat cross circling the blue circle. Moved my settler to become coastal, one more clam appeared, and also Cows. Of course when I got to Iron Working, Iron popped in my old fat cross. 
Andraeianus I
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2006
- Messages
- 180
carl corey said:
In the unpatched version this was true, but this was fixed in an early patch.
carl corey
Deity
Beamup, I don't know about the others, but I'm talking more about the first city placement.
Adraeianus I, I really wonder how they set up those blue circles then. If it's from what you can see at a given time, why doesn't it change when you reveal more? As in the game I talked about, where I see as clearly better to have 4 resources then only 2, but the blue circle stays in the same place. I'm really puzzled.
Adraeianus I, I really wonder how they set up those blue circles then. If it's from what you can see at a given time, why doesn't it change when you reveal more? As in the game I talked about, where I see as clearly better to have 4 resources then only 2, but the blue circle stays in the same place. I'm really puzzled.
For the first city, you should never, ever, ever, ever, pay any attention to them at all. Instead, you should think about it very carefully. The blue circles don't use any more information than you have - they're just a shortcut to avoid thinking about it yourself. And where to place your first city may well be the most important decision in the entire game... you certainly shouldn't even consider taking shortcuts on that choice.carl corey said:
carl corey
Deity
Beamup said:
Very well put. I've only started paying attention to my first city placement in my last 5-6 games, but it can indeed make a lot of difference. By the way, is there any way to turn off those indicators? Maybe the ones for worker suggestions as well?
Artosoft said:
You may want to differentiate between the 'blue circle where your first turn starts' (at least, I don't recall my settler's first turn NOT starting on a blue circle), from the other 'blue circles' you see with later settlers.
Somebody who knows the SDK would know better, but I think the code that determines starting location of turn #1, takes into account things like where Iron/Copper/Horses are -- which is why settling right where you are will almost always mean you have one of them within the culture range of your capital.
The code that determines the location of other blue circles may not take that into account.
In any case, I always settle within 1 turn of where my settler starts. I feel that ensures that I'll still get whatever goodies my capital was supposed to get.
For other cities, I generally find that where I want to place them is often a blue circle. And if not, I do reanalyze my decision to make sure I didn't make a silly mistake. But I certainly don't blindly follow the blue circle.
Civbowl
Chieftain
Like most things in Civ, the more you know the game the less you need the computer's help.
My first couple of games I always chose the blue circle, now I use the circle as a guide, and as I continue to play and improve I will someday completely ignore them.
My first couple of games I always chose the blue circle, now I use the circle as a guide, and as I continue to play and improve I will someday completely ignore them.
Zophos
Greater Ape of Antics
I got curious about this once, and actually read the code in the SDK (geeks, start with the AI_foundValue() function). It's a big hairy mess to understand, but here are my notes (perhaps comprehensible, perhaps not) on the algorithm:
The blue circles, as far as I can tell, are placed on tiles whose AI_foundValue is higher than the value in the adjoining 8 squares. Also, from cursory examination, AI settlers will go to the highest-scored tile they can currently access.
The most important points I took away are these:
There is also a bug in the calculations - it rates the center tile (where the city will be) using its actual f/h/c value, rather than the 2/1/1 (or better) it will have with a city on it.
Spoiler :
The blue circles, as far as I can tell, are placed on tiles whose AI_foundValue is higher than the value in the adjoining 8 squares. Also, from cursory examination, AI settlers will go to the highest-scored tile they can currently access.
The most important points I took away are these:
- The value only reflects resources that you can see with current technology
- The value does NOT reflect possible improvements - only natural values and improvements in place
- The AI does NOT count food requirements to work tiles (e.g. as far as I can tell, a site with 8 iron mines and nothing but plains tiles would be fairly highly rated, even though you can't work more than one of the mines until Biology).
- Food and strategic resources are heavily favored.
- Happiness is no more valuable than health in the calculation
- No value is given for chop-value of forests, just the hpt it produces
- No consideration is given to future locations of other cities, nor does the AI try to block other civs' access to portions of a continent
- The AI actively AVOIDS settling close to other civs' borders
- Starting locations are valued based on all tiles within radius 5
There is also a bug in the calculations - it rates the center tile (where the city will be) using its actual f/h/c value, rather than the 2/1/1 (or better) it will have with a city on it.
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