Great Library Query

Education obsoletes the Glib. However, if you are terribly behind, and take over the city with the Glib and everyone is in the modern age building SS parts. Do you get EVERY tech, beyond and including education? I have read about this in several threads. But never spacifically about this. So i am asking to know for sure.

This is seems like it would be THE plan on Demi-God+ levels.

As long as you have not learned Education, you will learn all techs that are known by 2 or more civs, that you know.

The GLB is probably at its worse as DG. At higher levels (deity and sid), it will be very dangerous to wait to catch up, they are already in the modern age.

Yeah but what I mean is. The plan is to avoid education and send a SOD to the glib city to catch up to the modern age for free.

Also, I didn't know you had to "know" the civs to suck tech out of them! Man I am dumber than I thought.

I've done it a few time on Sid. In this thread I posted my report on a game for a HoF gauntlet where I built the GLib and shot from not knowing Theology to being 5 techs from getting into Modern Times.

I've attached the save if you actually want to see it happen. The Glib has just been built in Caesarea. End this turn to see the techs come tumbling in during the inter-turn phase.

As vmxa says though, it is a dangerous gambit. In this game I would have lost a culture victory if I hadn't given up. One of the other two civs is about to get wiped out and my own culture was pathetic.

Yes. I've no idea why though.

Tone-

Yeah I just read your report about the glib thing before I made this post. I thought it more appropriate to start a new thread rather than getting into that one. But thank you for confirming.

Although I still don't understand why it's a dangerous gambit. Do you mean avoiding education is a dangerous gambit? Or not building the Glib yourself? Or the act of attacking the city with the glib?

The way I figure is, you go for hte Glib, if you miss it, your plan changes to conquest of the city that has it, while avoiding education. Since at the higher levels, you stand to make even more profite from it this way than actually building it. With the humans superior ability to plan, it shouldn't be to hard to take the city with the lib. I think it would even be worth it to do a little RoP backstabbing.

Well as I said, in that game I would have lost as the other AI civ with a decent amount of culture was killed off. I had muskets and cavs against a Sid army of tanks and infantry. I therefore left it too late to do anything about it.

Sometimes you get a runaway AI so even if you do capture/build the GLib, you will not catch them and so they could launch a SS before you've got a chance to get near to Apollo.

If you do get to use the GLib elevator, you then also have to build universities, factories, etc very quickly to compete with your rivals. I had stashed a fair bit of cash away to help with this but you're always playing catch up. Your military could also be out of date, and cavs don't upgrade!

I tried it in that game to harness the AI's research capability but I've generally found it more effective to work with them (with a bit of espionage of course ) if you want fast research. If you don't want to research quickly, then it's better to encourage the AIs to war with one another. Either way I wouldn't recommend starting out with all my hopes pinned on the GLib. It could get you out of a hole in some situations though.

Virtual Alex said:

Also, I didn't know you had to "know" the civs to suck tech out of them! Man I am dumber than I thought.

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The GLB gives you techs as long as at least two civs know that tech and that you know those civs. So if only one civ knows, say Computer, you will not get that tech. If two knew it, but you did not have contact with both of them, you will not get that tech.

Of course you are going to get Ed, so after that no other techs can be learn from either further contacts or other aquiring techs.

The dangers our numerous. At sid, you are always in danger of a cultural lose. As was mentioned, they could launch the SS, before you could get production up to speed.

They could just conquer you, wiht their modern units, of which, they will have mnay and you none.

They may nuke you and kill of any hope of getting at them. The main thing is the culture loss. You have to take care to not have the #2 cultural civ get killed. That is how I lost my first try at a contients win. I failed to remember how far back I was in culture and killed off the only other civ (just me and the top dog left). Boom game over, try again.

You also have to worry about the possibility that the GLB will be owned by the top dog and in a core city and you cannot get to it in time. Lots of way it could go wrong.

Not that I have any business trying a Sid game just yet, but I downloaded Tone's save just to watch the GLib/tech slingshot happen . . . That is absolutely un-*******-believable!!

Right, so the SID AI is preventing me from getting GL on purpose. I proved it too. I saved a man at 1350BC. another at 950BC. each then having learned literature. I ran those men with GL being built, and each time another civ reached it 3 turns before me. I ran the men a second time without great library being built, and over 25 turns passed with no one building a great library (I need 23 turns). I then reloaded the men and tried it again with GL being built, and again, another civ completed it 3 turns before me.

I have decided that the SID AI only gives you 20 turns to build a wonder, any wonder, (I keep loosing the collosus and the oracle too). If you can't build it in under 20 turns, you don't get it. This means until someone posts cheats that work for complete, the only way to get wonders is by conquering the cities that build them. Which means initially at least, the civ must be conquest oriented rather than culture/research oriented. since conquest is my least favorite style of play and topping the culture/reserch curve is my most favorite, this is most unfortunate.

Also, as my favorite mode is isolationism, the GL isn't as big a help anymore even if I could get it, as I'd have to know the other civs for it to work (though at least I'd be able to stop all of them from swapping knowledge via the library.) I'd have to go out into the world and meet folk instead of staying secluded on my island, which would change my initial research goal from literature, construction or monarchy, to mapmaking.

It is going to be tough to get wonders on Sid. Remember they get a 60% discount so, for example, building the Colossus fr them is the same cost as a barracks for you!

I'M STUPID! 40% of 200 is 80, not 40. SORRY!!!!!

I'm surprised at your style of play for Sid level but hey, I'm no expert so I'll keep quiet. All I will say is that it is possible to build wonders at this level. sanabas posted an excellent thread in the HoF forum to prove it. Here it is. It may not quite be what you're aiming to do but it may help in some way.

Originally Posted By Virtual Alex

Tone-

Yeah I just read your report about the glib thing before I made this post. I thought it more appropriate to start a new thread rather than getting into that one. But thank you for confirming.

Although I still don't understand why it's a dangerous gambit. Do you mean avoiding education is a dangerous gambit? Or not building the Glib yourself? Or the act of attacking the city with the glib?

The way I figure is, you go for hte Glib, if you miss it, your plan changes to conquest of the city that has it, while avoiding education. Since at the higher levels, you stand to make even more profite from it this way than actually building it. With the humans superior ability to plan, it shouldn't be to hard to take the city with the lib. I think it would even be worth it to do a little RoP backstabbing.

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IMO this is a bad idea if you are playing deity or sid. If you miss the GL by a few turns and another AI gets it, you've very likely lost the game. 400 shields is critical in the AA and losing this won't help you build the units needed to conquer the GL city. I would start over. It's one or the other and you have to make up your mind before you even pick your civ. If you know you are building the GL, choose a civ that starts off with alphabet as a free tech. If you want to go no GL choose an agricultural civ and expand like no other.

Originally Posted By Tone

It is going to be tough to get wonders on Sid. Remember they get a 60% discount so, for example, building the Colossus fr them is the same cost as a barracks for you!

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Ouch!

Please see my correction above.

Tone said:

Please see my correction above.

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Well, with the increased growth rate you may actually be more spot on with barracks than you thought.

Tone said:

It is going to be tough to get wonders on Sid. Remember they get a 60% discount so, for example, building the Colossus fr them is the same cost as a barracks for you!

I'M STUPID! 40% of 200 is 80, not 40. SORRY!!!!!

I'm surprised at your style of play for Sid level but hey, I'm no expert so I'll keep quiet. All I will say is that it is possible to build wonders at this level. sanabas posted an excellent thread in the HoF forum to prove it. Here it is. It may not quite be what you're aiming to do but it may help in some way.

Click to expand...

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I also notet that the gl should cost 400 shields as per the civilopedia entry, but actually costs 700 (in SID mode anyway), also, an in game cheat I tried didn't work. I loaded a bunch of settlers/workers into my capital, put all my citizens into the most shield productive squares (which lowers my gl turns rate from 23 to like 11, press enter, then use a worker/settler to fill the -pop from starvation caused by moving citizens out of the food production squares after the next turn cycles and puts the citizens back where they were. Except, I don't think it gives me that shield bonus, it resets the citizens first and still takes 23 turns to make.

I'll read or link now, see if I can give it a shot whatever is suggested.

Great Library costs the human 400 on any level. Sid doesn't change that.

Are you playing a modded game?



(and why are you using cheats?)

AutomatedTeller said:

Great Library costs the human 400 on any level. Sid doesn't change that.

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Mine has five bars each of which seem to hold 140 shields before they fill.