Naval bombardment

Forgive me if this has been covered previoiusly:

What to do, when the AI gangs up on you, and you seem to be at war with the whole world, and an endless stream of naval bombardment of your cities, and surrounding squares, begins? I'd seen this before, at easier difficuly levels, but, luckily, it has been some time. Then, it got so aggravating, I had to turn off all viewing and animation of enemy movement and battles. Had to do that again this time, and eventually, I just quit what was easily my most promising game, so far, on Emporer level.

I'm playing Play the World. I learned some time ago, here, that coastal fortesses don't work. I think that was before I started playing PTW, though. Where those fixed? That could help, I guess.

Also, any other ideas on what to do besides retiring from the game, when this ensues, and no one will make peace without holding you hostage? I was close, but had not yet gotten the tech to build my own frigates. Even if I had, I'm sure that wouldn't have worked, as I'd have been outnumbered 30 to whatever I could build!

Also, any other ideas on what to do besides retiring from the game, when this ensues, and no one will make peace without holding you hostage?

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What exactly do you mean by "holding you hostage"?

To fight off bombarding ships, make a note of where the enemy ships are coming from, and place your ships in the nearest city. The AI will tend to repeatedly send ships via the same route. So you can keep your ships safely in the city, then ambush the attackers, and retreat back to within your own city.

But first you should make peace, and get the tech for the frigates. If all the other civs have the tech already, you should be able to buy it pretty cheap.

Also build whatever catapult/cannon/artillery you can and bombard the attacking ships with them.

If there is a particular resource or lux to protect from bombardment, station troops on top of it, so that the enemy bombards the troops rather then destroying your road.

Ringo Kid said:

What exactly do you mean by "holding you hostage"?

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By that I mean at this point I was the only civ, that I recall, had Democracy. They all wanted it to make peace. Well, the strongest, Carthaginians, wanted a ridiculous demand. I just refuse, by nature(and Civ 2 habits!) to ever give into any demands. I realize maybe you have to, at times in Civ 3, but I'd rather just quit.

To fight off bombarding ships, make a note of where the enemy ships are coming from, and place your ships in the nearest city. The AI will tend to repeatedly send ships via the same route. So you can keep your ships safely in the city, then ambush the attackers, and retreat back to within your own city.

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Well, like I said, and I'm not kidding, there were at least 30 frigates bombarding one city and its squares. The Carthaginians, for the 3rd time in the game, had made a demand, and started war. Then, as in other aggravating games I've played, they got everyone and their brother to also war with me. Probably then all gave them the Astronomy. Hence, all the frigates.

But first you should make peace, and get the tech for the frigates. If all the other civs have the tech already, you should be able to buy it pretty cheap.

Also build whatever catapult/cannon/artillery you can and bombard the attacking ships with them.

If there is a particular resource or lux to protect from bombardment, station troops on top of it, so that the enemy bombards the troops rather then destroying your road.

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It all depends on the game situation. I had two borders to protect, and most of my troops at those, having had multiple wars previously. And, naturally, they had to stay there when these started. All I really had was my workers.

Now, if it had been an island situation, with no land borders, this would be much easier to do.


So, I assume coastal fortresses still don't work?

The answer is quite simple: The AI has [godfather accent] "respect" [/accent] for offensive firepower. So build lots of offensive units.

I suggest Horseman/Knights/Cavalery and later Tanks/Modern-Armor Build Archers/Bowman if you lack the resources for Horseman and Knights.

If you don't like warmongering, thats OK, you don't actually have to use those units for the effect. But just having a bigger gun than the AI makes it so they won't even demand stuff in the first place.

If your offensive power is big enough, they might even cave in to your demands (don't try this if you are planning for a diplomatic victory)

So, the big question is: why are you holding onto democracy? Why not trade it around for tech parity?

back to how to deal with naval bombardment: catapults, trebuchets, cannon. Your own frigates. When an AI demands and attacks, you bring in the world around them.

I dont know about the CF's . I don't often build them.

I avoid fighting more than one other civ at a time. If you can bribe 2 or 3 other civs with Democracy to ally with you against the Carthaginians that might be a good idea.

That also helps you by slowing down the trading of techs and or resources between the AI civs.

Could you trade Demo for the Frigate tech?

Yeah, I have to admit, I probably could be better at trading. I tend to not want to give other civs technologies. I want to stay ahead in tech, by nature.

I used to like to play warmongerer, in Civ 2, but it's so hard in Civ 3, I prefer to stake out a nice civ area, and mind my own business. Impossible, though, as someone always wants to pick a fight.

As I play more Emporer, and try to make my way to Deity, I'm probably going to have to master trade more. I don't even tend to set up embassies, but probably should start that, as well, to trade extra resources/luxuries, too.

Coastal fortresses do something, but a single ship is better, so I don't really care what they do.

billybgame said:

Forgive me if this has been covered previoiusly:

What to do, when the AI gangs up on you, and you seem to be at war with the whole world, and an endless stream of naval bombardment of your cities, and surrounding squares, begins? I'd seen this before, at easier difficuly levels, but, luckily, it has been some time. Then, it got so aggravating, I had to turn off all viewing and animation of enemy movement and battles. Had to do that again this time, and eventually, I just quit what was easily my most promising game, so far, on Emporer level.

I'm playing Play the World. I learned some time ago, here, that coastal fortesses don't work. I think that was before I started playing PTW, though. Where those fixed? That could help, I guess.

Also, any other ideas on what to do besides retiring from the game, when this ensues, and no one will make peace without holding you hostage? I was close, but had not yet gotten the tech to build my own frigates. Even if I had, I'm sure that wouldn't have worked, as I'd have been outnumbered 30 to whatever I could build!

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Best thing I can suggest is accept the stupid AI, and accept those coastal cities will constantly be hammered until you can build up a large. powerful navy.

So focus on building up your non-coastal cities, and build your navy in coastal cities that the AI has deemed not worth of pounding.

billybgame said:

So, I assume coastal fortresses still don't work?

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They work, but don't do anything useful.

They will bombard any AI ship that ends its turn within a 1 tile radius
of the city. I know, because I have accidentally left a ship in range,
and the AI's coastal fortress took a shot at me.

Now, this feature isn't *useful*, because the AI uses a pattern of
ship movement -- move in, bombard your city, move back --
which never leaves its ship within range of your coastal fortress.

I don't know if this was put in for multi-player, since a human would be
more likely to leave a ship within range by accident, or not. Or maybe Soren made
the AI smarter, after the functions of the C.F. were coded, and
the C.F. suddenly became much less useful to the human player.

Keeping some artillery in the city, or moving it out along a coastal rail line,
will let you bombard ships that are 2 tiles out, instead of the 1 tile C.F.
range.

I thought they bombarded a passing ship, like an army? The big issue is that they are the first thing destroyed when the AI bombards you.

They dont' require maintenance, which is about all that is good about them

Ok, thanks, people.

I've always loved catapults, and their upgrades, as a war tool. Even as a defense tool. Always wondered why the AI never makes them. Guess it's not so tough, after all

So, that makes me think I'll just make more. Maybe one per city. Or something like that. Especially in Archipeligo or coastal games. Mainly, I'll make a lot more.

Then, if/when the naval bombardment stops, and I take the upper hand I'll have tons of artillery for the offensive.

I usually have 6 or less, in my attack force. I'm having a vision of what 20 cannons could do!

1 per city means you have a chance of taking off 1 hitpoint. Make a stack of 10-20 (depending) and take a bigger chunk off their frigate stack's HP. Wounded ships will retreat back to port, even if you have no navy. Also build an attacker ship to run out, attack, and run back into your city with a harbor on the same turn. Doing it like this will make ships retreat and possibly kill some. Destroyers work best for this, but Frigates/Ironclads can still do it.

Bombers are good for coastal defense too.

You could also send a task force to take the closest Carthaginian harbor, so that the attackers would have further to go for repair. Then you could give the city to another AI civ, hoping that would lead to war between the AI's so they would not bug you so much.

billybgame said:

Yeah, I have to admit, I probably could be better at trading. I tend to not want to give other civs technologies. I want to stay ahead in tech, by nature.

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Break that habit. In Civ2 you could just simply outresearch the AI even at Deity level. You can't do that in Civ3. You simply must trade with the AI even if all you want to do is stay even. Don't let it worry you. The AI is still a lousy general.

I used to like to play warmongerer, in Civ 2, but it's so hard in Civ 3, I prefer to stake out a nice civ area, and mind my own business. Impossible, though, as someone always wants to pick a fight.

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Actually, warmongering is still the easiest way to win at Civ3. You never want to isolate yourself because you need the AI to trade with. The more AIs you know, the more trading oppurtunities you will have.

As I play more Emporer, and try to make my way to Deity, I'm probably going to have to master trade more. I don't even tend to set up embassies, but probably should start that, as well, to trade extra resources/luxuries, too.

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Embassies are worth setting up if for no other reason that the AI will like you better with an embassy. You also get one free look at their capital and can find out what resources they have. Later on, you'll want to bribe your AI buddies into war with other AIs and (I believe) you need an embassy set up to do that. Well worth the one time set up cost.

gunkulator said:

Break that habit. In Civ2 you could just simply outresearch the AI even at Deity level. You can't do that in Civ3. You simply must trade with the AI even if all you want to do is stay even. Don't let it worry you. The AI is still a lousy general.



Actually, warmongering is still the easiest way to win at Civ3. You never want to isolate yourself because you need the AI to trade with. The more AIs you know, the more trading oppurtunities you will have.



Embassies are worth setting up if for no other reason that the AI will like you better with an embassy. You also get one free look at their capital and can find out what resources they have. Later on, you'll want to bribe your AI buddies into war with other AIs and (I believe) you need an embassy set up to do that. Well worth the one time set up cost.

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Well said. Trade the techs, get money, gpt, anything. Soon you'll be researching techs faster than the AIs and will never be behind. Continue trading those tech to AIs that are friendly ofr gpt and all the money they have. Keep them broke! Sell your silks and dyes and stuff and make them dependent on you for their happiness. Don't worry about them having the same tech, either. While you're building 20 artillary to take out those pesky frigates, they're building the Wonders, temples and such. Then take the artillary and cavalry/guerilla get those Wonders they've been building for you. Plus, a goal is to be the most productive, Cash, gpt and lots and lots of cities are the key. Use all of that extra money to rush whatever you need (settlers for continuous expansion) or to upgrade your military. Tribuchet to artillary, horseman to calvary and pikeman to infantry cost a ton of money. Trading techs, outdated resources and happiness keeps pays for the upgrading. I had to upgrade 50 knights to calvary to keep out of wars and also to quickly win a war, and the trades where well worth it. I

More on trades, I was down by five techs, started trading with whomever would trade, kept going from AI to AI, trading the techs I just got for something new, and in two turns was one tech up one the AIs. Once I was even in techs, I depended on out producing the AI for superiority.

For protecting the coast: cannons and artillary. Once you get railroads, keep them stacked and move them to where the AIs ships are, and blast them back to their homeland. I'm protecting all of my coastlands with cannons and artillary. If they do land, keep four calvary around to finish them off.