ALC Game #9: Incas/Huayna Capac

Go SW and settle. Too many flood plains without Expansive WILL kill your food until you get enough resources, which might take a while. You can save them for another city, and you will need the extra production for troops/wonders. In my experience a capital city with all flat land just doesn't cut it, even if they're all good tiles.

a lot of the anitcipation for this ALC try is about how much different the game will be on Monarch. while you've won offline games on Monarch, this is the ALC, and you have a perfect record to defend.

with that in mind, i like the suggestion of the previous few posts about settling SW to leave a few FP for another city. you need a strong start, and if you'll be whipping your first city, you won't be working more than 3-4 FP initially anyways, right? so why not have room for a duplicate city (with a few FP) to the east that you can also whip and keep at a size < 4-5. i haven't played a Monarch game yet, but all i've read leads me to believe the start is more and more critical the higher you go in difficulty.

there's also the possibility of getting another resource for the fat cross, and if not, you get a little extra map information your Q scout doesn't have to discover.

from the look of the map, you'll have a few more FP to the east anyway; so when you decide which city(ies) will be your commerce monster, that's a definite option.

btw, this is the best game forum thread i've ever seen(better than anything i ever saw in WarCraft/StarCraft/StarWarsGalaxies)..it's really well narrated and everyone's feedback is great info for a mediocre player like me. thanks.

Even though i understand and pratialy agree with the people telling you to settle 1sw I would still recommend you to settle 1s. Why? Because if you move sw you will lose atleast one floddplain, probably two (we dont know whats on the square 2sw). There looks like there will be no extra gold to mine. The hill 1w of the gold is clearly a grassland hill. The only square we dont know is the one 2sw. Wouldn't we see it if it was a hill by the way? And it will be inside your cultural border after one pop anyway. So the chance for finding another goldhill is pretty slim. Its there for sure, but i would take the safe bet and found a super commerce city and still have place for another decent one(will have two floodplains on its own and can work a few of the capitals until the capital grows big enough to work all of them).

The only chance you have of finding another goldmine is in the square 1w,1nw of the gold. And as you already have notice. The gold tends to come two by two, not with one square inbetween.

I don't think moving SW does much (if anything) as far as the number of flood plains go. You lose 2 (ESE and the one you'll be building on), and you're likely to gain back at least 1 (2 SW) if not more, for a net loss of 1 at best. You might even gain more flood plains depending on what lies beneath the fog to the south and the west.

More importantly, let's think about what unhealthiness does. Each unhealthy person eats 3 food instead of 2. They still work and produce hammers and commerce. They just eat more food. Well, guess what? You've got 7 flood plains and an irrigated corn! You've got plenty of food.

A flood plains tile really solves its own health problems. Each one costs you -.4 in health and gives you 1 extra food. So each flood plains gains you a net of +.6 food without any health bonuses. Once you get the health problems taken care of, it gains you +1 food. Either way, you come out ahead.

Sharing the food bonuses between cities makes sense, but just moving to get away from health "problems" is running from a problem that never existed in the first place.

I agree with 1S you gain a gold and keep even on hills - as far as we know. I like grassland hills (a mine and some food).

I didn't think we were moving due to health problems so much as moving to get the gold in the fat cross. But I do agree, with so much food the health isn't really and issue. The gold on the otherhand is. Plus having another hill in to mine will be very beneficial at the start for more hammers. Plus moving SW will free up some FP for perhaps a total commerce city. It would have a couple of FP and grasslands to work all along the river while being connected to the capitol. The grasslands hills aren't so much of an issues as we will have pleny of food from the FP and irrigated corn. Moving SW will still leave us with 5 (possibly 6) FP and corn (which will be on an irrigated grassland) while leaving more FP open for another settlement. There could be some serious whipping involved in both settlements, which I know Sisiutil is a big fan of

I think that you should definately go for polytheism first. I think that the AI puts a slightly lower priority on it. One time hinduism didn't appear even after 14 turns into the game! A shrine would further increase the effectiveness of Wall Street if you choose to make your capitol a commerce city. I customarily never move my settler for fear of building on top of a resource.

wioneo said:

I think that you should definately go for polytheism first. I think that the AI puts a slightly lower priority on it. One time hinduism didn't appear even after 14 turns into the game! A shrine would further increase the effectiveness of Wall Street if you choose to make your capitol a commerce city. I customarily never move my settler for fear of building on top of a resource.

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I've Never Seen Resources Appear on Flood plains though... Have you???

Round 2: to 2840 BC

No, you didn't miss a round, I'm just numbering them differently. Calling the very first turn "Round 0" just stopped making sense to me. Whatever.

Well, thanks for all the contradictory advice, everyone! No, seriously, thanks for the input. I mulled over where to move the Settler for quite some time: south? Southwest? South? Southwest? In the end, Caesar's battlecry at the Rubicon came back to haunt me and forced my hand.

"Let the dice fly high!"



So we did gain a resource--spices--and we still have 5 flood plains in the capital's fat cross. We should also be able to make another very decent city to the east.

My first build was a Quechua, and my first research goal was Polytheism. I understand where everyone was coming from regarding Pottery, but consider this: I don't have a Worker yet. I also wanted to build a couple of Quechuas in preparation for a potential rush, so I figured I could put off Pottery for a little while.

Meanwhile, my Quechua did some exploring. He found a goody hut in the desert to the east. Look what it popped for:



Well, don't that beat all. I love getting techs from huts. Doesn't everyone?

I finished my Quechua and sent him north while my first one turned and headed south. A few turns later, I got some more good news:





So we now have an early religion in hand. Also on this turn, by two intrepid Quechuas each popped huts! The first one, in the south, landed me a Scout:



And the second one, to the north, gave me a map:



Interesting. I was thinking, at this point, that the continent must be shaped like a backwards C, curling back around above itself to the north. I sent my Quechuas east along the shoreline, while the Scout went west to explore the extent of the continent in that direction--which actually didn't look to be very far.

I still had not encountered another Civ, which had me a little puzzled. Usually I meet up with at least one neighbour by this point. I had a growing suspicion that everyone else was too far away to support a decent Quechua rush; furthermore, it was looking less likely that I'd be able to steal a Worker and have him make it home. So I changed the build in Cuzco from a Quechua to a Worker.

After I got my early religion I went after the other tech everyone was pushing me to pursue:



So now when the Worker pops out he has plenty of things he can do: build roads, farms, and cottages.

And my luck with the huts was holding! I found another one in the southeast corner of the continent and look what it popped for:



VERY nice! I can consider building a library in Cuzco soon and even think about running a science specialist for an early Great Scientist.

I soon added another tech to access the gold and lead to Bronze Working:



Not only had I still not met anyone, my units were encountering more and more shorline. By the end of the round, the shocking truth was revealed:



Yes, I double-checked the game settings! Map: continents. Go figure.

So we've been thrown a heckuva curveball, gang! My first instinct was to go back, regenerate, and restart the thread. But then I thought that this makes for a very interesting variation, and should please a lot of the people who've been urging me to try a different type of map. This will certainly guarantee a very different type of ALC game!

First off, if anyone wants to take a crack at a dotmap, feel free. I still have a little bit of exploring to do in the south and southeast to check for accessible ocean resources or another nearby spit of land, though I'd be surprised to find either at this point.

Beyond that... what do we do NOW? We've got loads of challenges. First off, we're isolated. REALLY isolated, it looks like, as in no contact with other civs until Optics and Caravels. Also, no military campaigns until Astronomy. That could be very worrisome on Monarch level.

We have three happiness resources: gold, gems, spices. That's it. We're better off for health resources--slightly, with four. Trading with other civs is going to be important.

Tech-wise, the seafaring techs are suddenly looking very important. Oh, and did anyone else notice we don't have any copper? We're going to have to grab Iron Working before too long too, and keep our fingers crossed that there's some around. Side benefit: it gives us access to the gems.

On the upside, we popped two valuable techs from huts and have founded a religion. We're going to be left alone to expand and develop, with the Quechuas functioning principally as very effective early barb-busters. Given how ineffective the AI is at amphibious invasions, that shouldn't be a problem provided we keep up to a respectable degree in military techs and units.

Ah, yes, military... we should be able to hold off the barbs with Quechuas, unless and until barb Axemen start showing up. What are the mechanics on that, someone? With no copper on the continent and iron working undiscovered, are barb Axes an impossibility? Or should we think about getting Archery before long?

And what about victory conditions? Domination is looking like a heckuva challenge. What about--dare I say it--cultural? Financial lends itself to it, after all, though we'd be sort of wasting the Aggressive trait. It looks like there's enough room for nine cities on that rock, easy. We could also consider space race or diplomatic, and perhaps I should not dismiss domination too quickly. But if we decide to pursue cultural, we should get going on founding at least two more religions lickety-split.

At any rate, this sitch should spark some very interesting discussions!

Lol, alone a continent with THE early rusher... Well, it makes up for a good challenge. Good thing it is a rather large continent which means the others have less space. Normally 2 civs could be placed in this landmass.

Also good thing you have at least a religion to help with hapiness. You also have a lot of gold, which enables you to expand fast running on gold mined.

Condsidering victory type. domination seems hard with no one to conquer for a long time, but I don't thing you have tot decide fast, unless you go cultural.

In either way, I would consider building the partheon to speed up GP's. They are more important being alone to jump in the techtree. You don;t need much military so you can do your thing... Wonderbuilding!

I count 4 health and 3 hapiness resources (2 pre calender), so you should do fine for a long time. By that time you will have drama. I think you are going to be a cowboy, considering al those cows you have

I would create a GP farm in the east (cow, rice, fp's) and make it a GS farm mainly. prob also GL in it. The capital can be a GP (priest) farm in the beginning using the orcale (and stonehenge?). You might pull of a CS slingshot since you have gold and were INCREDIBLE lucky with the huts.

Oh I would beeline to optics of course.

BTW I still think you should have settled 1 S (hehe).

Edit: your question on axebarbs. Chariots. AH will come in pretty quick so it will reveal horses. I know this isnt warlords, but a few shock chariots will do the job. They are cheap and good fog busters too. By the time you will prob. have iron. I think you will be save with quechua's before you get horses.

Isolated Starts Usually mean cultural Wins lol Since your looking for religions, Judism Seems a Little too late maybe go on the Conf and Tao and Possibly Chist Route.

Take Your time to Settle No one's gonna beat you to any locations except Barbs which means you can allocate your hammers and food to other things like early wonders such as Stonehedge and Oracle for early Prophet points (Free Tech Could be Metal Casting or Codes of law if your lucky to reasearch Codes of law you can pick up Civil Service)

Here's an Idea Settle a Northern City as Close to the northern Continent as possible and Pop the Cultural Broaders 3 or even 4 times mayb you could send a gally Up there once your cultural Broaders poped (Which is probly faster then researching MC->Machinery->Compass ->Optics) and hopefully meet up with over Civs and Conquer them using gallys LOL

Fastest Way to pop Broaders??? Guess you could get your 2nd or even 3rd City which would be to the north and got Conf Founded there and build as many Cultural buildings as possible (mayb even a Wonder) or you could Beeline to Music and use your free Great artist to culture bomb your northern City to reach the northern continent.

Hope there is a Continent in the north not just a few Islands LOL

EDIT: Just Checked the Save and theres only 1 tile of Ocean Seperating your continent from the Northern continent so Build a City at the Gems/Rice with River Location and pop your broaders once and you can get a gally up there easy remember to research Sailing first though.

Remember gallys can travel on Ocean tiles as long as its within your cultural Broaders

Wow, this is definitely a twist in this ALC. At first I thought you lucky son of a ..... with popping writing and the wheel from huts. But now you are stuck on this DESERTed island A quick count nets you in about 7 strong cities, all with at least 1 food resource. But also enough production in almost every city (go go gold).

So from the first look of this there are 3 options for victory:
1. Cultural but you would rather like 9 cities for that
2. Diplomatic.
3. Space race. Good teching possibilities.

I also do think that compass/optics/navigation will become a lot more important, especially because you will need some extra resources, but you can trade enough with 4 gold, 4 spices, 3 rice and 4 cows. More then enough to get all the resources you want/need. 4 health and 3 happiness is good at start. Gold and gems will work immediately (ok iron working for gems but you will research that soon I guess) and calendar is now becoming more important too because of the sea techs. This will mean that your cities will be able to grow enough. Also you still will get a temple in most cities.

So what is going to be the tech path? Priesthood for oracle, then masonry and monotheism for organized religion to get into builder mode? Or animal husbandry and then iron working -> metal casting for forges and colussus(this island screams for colussus)?

P.s. damn Voek and Kniteowl. I thought I was the first to respond. I guess this thread is just darn popular and the starts are always the most exciting times which everybody watches with anticipation.

You can't see copper, because you don't have BW, do you? What about the other religions, budhism, judaism?

What about founding more of them and go for a cultural? The island is big enough.

Dots for you.



Note that the cows/gold city could be shifted one tile north, if desired. I, owever, think that the southern spot is stronger.
Also, the southernmost city on the tip of that peninsula is worthwhile only if there's seafood down there.

2 options :
- galley travelling
- isolated cultural

both need a second city fast, with loads of culture
My advice would be to finish BW if it's not done yet, then start research on masonry/monotheism. True, it's a gambit, but with gold and so much food it's doable.
Asap build settlers : one for the north cultural city, one for a south cultural city. It's good to have multiple shrines in one city, but remember that you need culture in your second city.
5 cpt for a second religion are really welcome = you could use a second city before hitting monotheism.

edit : if you go cultural, don't forget that only 3 cities need to be really good. A lot of overlapping to grow the cottages faster is beneficial in the end= dotmap 3 BIG ones, then fill the map to squeeze 6 others with overlapping.

Sisiutil said:

So we've been thrown a heckuva curveball, gang!

Click to expand...

In the midst of the debate on where to settle, I decided to run a shadow start (settling in place, going for pottery, etc). When I finished exploring, I got a pretty good laugh out of this.

You've got decent territory for space or cultural. Having landed the one religion, and having only modest needs for hurrying (assuming that the continent really is isolated until Astronomy), bagging a few more religions and then smearing them about looks pretty straight forward.

That's probably your artist farm directly east of the capital on stuges dotmap, though I think he's got the norther coast wrong - dismissing the fish in the west is criminal. Remember that overlapping a commercial capital is a good thing, as the suburbs can work the cottages while the capital builds the multipliers and earns the big money. (Edit: obligatory honor code... On my honor, I did not collaborate with cabert on this assignment).

Without the rocks, I think the Lighthouse is out of the question, but if you could find a decent production center on the coast and some copper in the interior a Colossus or two might help.

Oh, and set up a barb watch as fast as you can manage - keeping the island clear will save you some bother.

is it not honorable to collaborate with me?

Is there a chance that budhism was not founded yet, so we could get it also? I'm for the cultural victory with founding many religions. So after BW (you want to whip) go for oracle for CoL and monotheism. You should build 2 other cities, so that each of your cultural cities founds a religion.

Too early to dotmap properly if you haven't located horses, copper or iron. I agree with Voek about second city grabbing cows, rice and floodplains.
I think I read somewhere on the forum that axes start appearing when any 2 civs (including you) have discovered BW.
Even without raging barbs you'd better get fogbusting soon; no other civ around to attract the barbs.
Oracle slingshot seems a good idea; if you're busy building quechas you probably won't have time to grab stonehenge and oracle; but if you go for a religion slingshot (CoL or Theology) second city should get the religion which also helps with culture.
You've been talking about culture victory for long enough.

I didn't realize galleys could cross ocean if the tiles are within your cultural borders. If that's the case, getting that northern most city up seems to be you next spot especially if you're going to go for monotheism or CoL as this would be nice for the culture reasons already pointed out. I can't help but feel that cultural is the way to go since you're so isolated, but I suppose it depends on how long you stay that way. If you can meet the AI with you galleys, then perhaps you can tech trade early and hang in the space race. Otherwise, I feel you're doomed to lag behind in tech overall and in that case should plan on cultural.

In any case, this is gonna be interesting to watch